How to Like Going to Church

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

The sixth chapter of Revelations tells us that those who have been slain for Christ are
already in heaven. Are you saying that the vision that Christ gave John was not true,
Judge not? There are no souls in heaven before Christ's return? You need to define
what you accept and what you do not accept. If this vision in chapter six is not true
or a real vision, then just say so. Make your declaration clear and precise! If you believe
that this vision was fictional and not real at all, then state that.

Please avoid hiding behind behind a vague statements such as, Revelations is highly symbolic.
Because you are not making your viewpoint clear, is the vision fictional that John received.
You need to address this point! If it was fictional, why did God bother to give a fictional vision
about fictional events that must take place in the future?

Yes a vision Judge not, but a concious vision in which Paul interacted in the vision itself.
Just like all the other interactive visions throughout the Old Testament. Prophets of old
sometimes suffered inside their vision, they talked and worshipped, it was interactive.

You may need to correct the statement above regarding symbols and the book of Revelations.
Revelations uses symbols but the symbols are very easy to understand. For example, when the
symbol 'the lamb' occurs, you can take it from me that this means Jesus! Or when the symbol
'the beast' occurs it is referring to the antichrist. Where would you be without my helpful
insight Judge not? Seriously Judge not, many of the symbols are not to hard to interpret.

The symbols are usually very simple and easy to interpret, which was the intention of the author.
Jesus is telling you what will take place in the past, the present and in the future. Doctrines
are most definitely clarified and reinforced in the book of Revelations.

Are you saying that the souls of the martyrs are not in heaven already?

Because the soul is not immortal until God declares it to be. Remember that any soul cannot
die unless God destroys it, so it is never immortal until God grants the soul immortality.

More fodder for the fire:

Why don't the Apostles talk about the souls being with the Lord in heaven after we die?

How come Paul didn't know his soul would be joining the Lord in heaven when died ?
- Phil 3:10-11

if we look at Lazarus who according to you would have been in heaven after his death with the Lord in all his glory-why would Jesus bring him back to a physical mundane life only to die again and return to the same place in heaven again after his first death
maybe because he never ascended to heaven as Jesus taught.

where did all the Non-Christians, the millions who have never heard of Christ, go when they died?
Your theory says all return to the Lord-are their souls with Jesus?

Read Revelation 20 for the truth about nobody is even going to heaven-only that they will reign on earth with Him-
Heaven is coming to earth.

still no takers on the phrases _" when we get to heaven " i'm looking for.

revelation is talking about real events that are in the future and John is getting a visionary preview of it all-it's a warning to us

there are no souls yet in heaven of saints or anyone else according to scripture.

I doubt very much if you know who the " Beast " is specifically in Revelation.

 

[james1523]

More fodder for the fire:

Why don't the Apostles talk about the souls being with the Lord in heaven after we die?

How come Paul didn't know his soul would be joining the Lord in heaven when died ?
- Phil 3:10-11

You don't seem to know the Bible very well for someone saved 40 years.

A human being is not just a body, they are a living soul. The soul is who the person is. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. In Creation, God created Adam's flesh first from the dust, and then breathed His life into the dead body and this resulted in mans living soul. Death is simply the reverse of this process - the soul returns to God, and the body becomes dust.

The creation of man proves that the soul has existence separate from the body, because God did not create the body and soul at the same time, but the body first and then the soul.

Also, notice that the soul is from God's breath of life. Can God's life die? No, God's life is something eternal, and for this reason the soul cannot die.

Both Paul and Peter speak as if they will be absent from the body in death, and present with the Lord:


Phil 1:23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Peter 1:13-14 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by puttingyou in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.


These verses prove the continued existence of the person/soul after death.


Also in 1 Samuel 28:11-15 - Samuels soul/spirit is brought up from Hades to prophecy to Saul.

and Ecc 12:7 the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I think all of these verses prove that the soul is not merely electrons or a force, and has an existence separate to the body, and that the spirit/soul goes somewhere (to God).

If the soul is with God, then it must be in Heaven. Where is Christ/the Father now? In heaven of course. So it is logical that the soul/spirit is in Heaven as well.

 

[DHC]

More fodder for the fire:

Why don't the Apostles talk about the souls being with the Lord in heaven after we die?

How come Paul didn't know his soul would be joining the Lord in heaven when died ?
- Phil 3:10-11

if we look at Lazarus who according to you would have been in heaven after his death with the Lord in all his glory-why would Jesus bring him back to a physical mundane life only to die again and return to the same place in heaven again after his first death
maybe because he never ascended to heaven as Jesus taught.

where did all the Non-Christians, the millions who have never heard of Christ, go when they died?
Your theory says all return to the Lord-are their souls with Jesus?

Read Revelation 20 for the truth about nobody is even going to heaven-only that they will reign on earth with Him-
Heaven is coming to earth.

still no takers on the phrases _" when we get to heaven " i'm looking for.

revelation is talking about real events that are in the future and John is getting a visionary preview of it all-it's a warning to us

there are no souls yet in heaven of saints or anyone else according to scripture.

I doubt very much if you know who the " Beast " is specifically in Revelation.

Hello Judge not.

I did not say all souls are in heaven after they die. I said the following Judge not;
The sixth chapter of Revelations tells us that those who have been slain for Christ are already in heaven.
Notice the phrase 'slain for Christ', this tells us that this group of souls is already in heaven. That is what
the scripture states, this is not my opinion, and there is a marked difference.

Why don't the Apostles talk about the souls being with the Lord in heaven after we die?

John told you that there are souls in heaven before Christ returns already, Judge not. Why do you
keep repeating a redundant question, John was an apostle and he told you.

According to you Elijah never went to heaven? According to your theology there are no saints
in heaven but we have been told already that there are already some in heaven. The two witnesses
for example in Revelations (11) are not in heaven?
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they
went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.

Your trying to generalize from a theological understanding which is obviously erroneous.

The identity of the beast has been disclosed in the scripture but I am reluctant to ask
your opinion, because I know that it will not align with the scripture.

 

[judge not]

You don't seem to know the Bible very well for someone saved 40 years.

A human being is not just a body, they are a living soul. The soul is who the person is. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. In Creation, God created Adam's flesh first from the dust, and then breathed His life into the dead body and this resulted in mans living soul. Death is simply the reverse of this process - the soul returns to God, and the body becomes dust.

The creation of man proves that the soul has existence separate from the body, because God did not create the body and soul at the same time, but the body first and then the soul.

Also, notice that the soul is from God's breath of life. Can God's life die? No, God's life is something eternal, and for this reason the soul cannot die.

Both Paul and Peter speak as if they will be absent from the body in death, and present with the Lord:


Phil 1:23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Peter 1:13-14 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by puttingyou in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.


These verses prove the continued existence of the person/soul after death.


Also in 1 Samuel 28:11-15 - Samuels soul/spirit is brought up from Hades to prophecy to Saul.

and Ecc 12:7 the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I think all of these verses prove that the soul is not merely electrons or a force, and has an existence separate to the body, and that the spirit/soul goes somewhere (to God).

If the soul is with God, then it must be in Heaven. Where is Christ/the Father now? In heaven of course. So it is logical that the soul/spirit is in Heaven as well.

hello- first of I believe we are only begotten now, on our way to salvation which comes at the time of the resurrection of the dead if we have remained in Christ.

The Hebrew word for soul used in Genesis - nephesh - only means physical, mortal, temporal life and has nothing to do with immortality.
It's the same word used for animals and the beasts of the world. It is the breath of life put into all creatures.including us.

Immortality of the soul has pagan roots.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

I did not say all souls are in heaven after they die. I said the following Judge not;
The sixth chapter of Revelations tells us that those who have been slain for Christ are already in heaven.
Notice the phrase 'slain for Christ', this tells us that this group of souls is already in heaven. That is what
the scripture states, this is not my opinion, and there is a marked difference.

John told you that there are souls in heaven before Christ returns already, Judge not. Why do you
keep repeating a redundant question, John was an apostle and he told you.

According to you Elijah never went to heaven? According to your theology there are no saints
in heaven but we have been told already that there are already some in heaven. The two witnesses
for example in Revelations (11) are not in heaven?
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they
went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.

Your trying to generalize from a theological understanding which is obviously erroneous.

The identity of the beast has been disclosed in the scripture but I am reluctant to ask
your opinion, because I know that it will not align with the scripture.

Your case does not hold up with the facts and scripture.
Rev 6 is talking about future events that have not happen
Later when jesus returns to earth in Rev 20:4 we then see the truth that
those slain in Christ (would a beheading qualify for you ) are part of the 1st resurrection to eternal life
1 Thess 4:16-confirms the same thing - " .......and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

Nothing I print is according to me, I use scripture not conjecture.

Rev 11:12 shows God resurrecting the two witnesses back to a mortal life
and they ascend to heaven-which one since they are still flesh and blood-the first one -our sky where clouds are.
What happens to them after that we are not told.

you still cannot provide scripture proof that precisely say " When we get to heaven" or ' We will go to heaven when we die "

speculation and twisting scripture is not proof- it's only text evasion.

I'm going to offer a reward of One Hundred dollars if anyone can provide the scripture from the King James Bible ' we will go to Heaven when we die"
or " when we get to heaven" - i can't find it because it's not there in clear definite wording versus vague interpretation.
Surely something that is taken for granted by the majority of Christians and is a major belief must be in scripture somewhere.

i believe that we will be with Jesus on earth when He returns not in heaven now or in the future.
Heaven is coming to earth.

 

[james1523]

hello- first of I believe we are only begotten now, on our way to salvation which comes at the time of the resurrection of the dead if we have remained in Christ.

The Hebrew word for soul used in Genesis - nephesh - only means physical, mortal, temporal life and has nothing to do with immortality.
It's the same word used for animals and the beasts of the world. It is the breath of life put into all creatures.including us.

Immortality of the soul has pagan roots.

OK how do you explain Phil 1:23, 2 Cor 5:8 and 2 Peter 1:13-14 which have a sense of departing (the body) to go and be with the Lord?

 

[DHC]

Hello Judge not.

Colossians 3
3 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is,
seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on
earth. 3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life,
is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

If you read the lines above ever so carefully you will notice two important points.
1) We have already been raised up with Christ.
2) For we have already died and we are hidden in God.

You may be waiting for Christ to return but I have already taken my seat in the kingdom
of heaven. Lift up your eyes and set your mind on the reality of our life in Christ.
We are hidden in God and this necessarily implies that we are in heaven already
because that is where God is. When Christ is revealed we are revealed, we are already
with Christ and Christ is already in us.

Do you deny the reality that you have already died?
Do you deny that you have already been raised up with Christ?
Do you deny the reality that you are hidden in God?

Ephesians 2:6
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

We were raised with Christ and we are seated with Him in the heavenly places!

What do you mean by the statement that we are not yet there and no one is in heaven yet?

Your eyes need testing Judge not, either you are seated with Christ or you are not
seated with Christ. There is the divine, eternal and true reality which we have been
transferred into by Christ. Then there is the delusional fleshy reality that is temporary
and fading. May I see your citizenship papers Judge not.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

Colossians 3
3 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is,
seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on
earth. 3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life,
is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

If you read the lines above ever so carefully you will notice two important points.
1) We have already been raised up with Christ.
2) For we have already died and we are hidden in God.

You may be waiting for Christ to return but I have already taken my seat in the kingdom
of heaven. Lift up your eyes and set your mind on the reality of our life in Christ.
We are hidden in God and this necessarily implies that we are in heaven already
because that is where God is. When Christ is revealed we are revealed, we are already
with Christ and Christ is already in us.

Do you deny the reality that you have already died?
Do you deny that you have already been raised up with Christ?
Do you deny the reality that you are hidden in God?

Ephesians 2:6
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

We were raised with Christ and we are seated with Him in the heavenly places!

What do you mean by the statement that we are not yet there and no one is in heaven yet?

Your eyes need testing Judge not, either you are seated with Christ or you are not
seated with Christ. There is the divine, eternal and true reality which we have been
transferred into by Christ. Then there is the delusional fleshy reality that is temporary
and fading. May I see your citizenship papers Judge not.

In Colossians 3 it generally means to focus our minds on spiritual things rather than earthly matters.

when you see it saying 'risen in Christ " it means you died ( figuratively in the waters of baptism ) the old person you
were died and the new person you who has risen from baptism now are in Christ.

I will end each reference you give with what the authority of resurrection and eternal life has to say
" I will raise him up =those that are called in Christ- at the last day.....No one has seen the Father who is in heaven " John 6: 44-46

Let the readers decide what they should believe -the word of Jesus or misguided renderings of scripture.

i hope my citizenship will be in the Kingdom of God on earth.

 

[judge not]

I'm gone on summer holidays -will be back on September 1st

Have a nice summer
jn

 

[rag4aCrown]

Blessing;
The soul was born with the flesh. The soul lust after the fleshly desires. If not we would not need a "separation of soul and spirit". Amen.
Many relate to our soul as being spirit; it just isn't the truth.
Soul came forth with the flesh; one must be born "of the Spirit". Amen.
God is Spirit. Spirit comes from the heart. God sees our heart. Amen.
In separating soul from spirit, we must be born again. Spirit seeking not soul seeking.
Spirit is the deep things of God; which resides in ones heart.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Are we heart felt Spirit? or soul seeking flesh?
All praise, honor, and glory be to God. Amen.