How to Like Going to Church

[james1523]

The way to like going to church is given by Matt 16:13-19:


Matthew 16:13-20
King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

8 principles:

1. We need to come away from organized religion with all its rituals and traditions, busyness and confusion (Jerusalem), to a relaxing holiday destination such as Caesarea Philippi.
2. We need to ask ourselves, who is Christ? Who do we say that He is?
3. We need to have a revelation from the Heavenly Father of Christ, to see that Christ is the Son of the living God. Our God is living, not dead, for this reason we should have nothing to do with dead religions. Do not rely upon others for this, i.e "flesh and blood", we have to have this vision and revelation for ourself.
4. We need to have a revelation that Christ is not only our Savior and the Son of God, but also our Builder and God's Builder.
5. We need to see that God sees us not merely as sinners saved by grace, but as living stones, as Jesus called Peter.
6. We need to see that the aim of our life is not to live a good life, but Jesus wants to build us into a church, using us as "stones" (Also see 1 Peter 2:5, Peter must have been thinking of his experience in Matt 16 when he wrote 1 Peter 2:5).
7. We have to see that Satan hates church above all else, because the gates of hell shall try to prevail against it. Satan is not really fearful or worried about an individual Christian, but Satan hates and is fearful of a built up church.
8. We have to see that as a corporate entity of living stones, Satan cannot defeat us, hell does not prevail. Satan's aim is to make us stop going to church, so that he can defeat us. Satan often does this by causing us to be offended, so that we give up on church. Then we can become bitter, angry, twisted, dry, lonely and give up! The key thing is to deny our self, and not forsake the assembly (Heb 10:25).

 

[judge not]

The way to like going to church is given by Matt 16:13-19:


Matthew 16:13-20
King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

8 principles:

1. We need to come away from organized religion with all its rituals and traditions, busyness and confusion (Jerusalem), to a relaxing holiday destination such as Caesarea Philippi.
2. We need to ask ourselves, who is Christ? Who do we say that He is?
3. We need to have a revelation from the Heavenly Father of Christ, to see that Christ is the Son of the living God. Our God is living, not dead, for this reason we should have nothing to do with dead religions. Do not rely upon others for this, i.e "flesh and blood", we have to have this vision and revelation for ourself.
4. We need to have a revelation that Christ is not only our Savior and the Son of God, but also our Builder and God's Builder.
5. We need to see that God sees us not merely as sinners saved by grace, but as living stones, as Jesus called Peter.
6. We need to see that the aim of our life is not to live a good life, but Jesus wants to build us into a church, using us as "stones" (Also see 1 Peter 2:5, Peter must have been thinking of his experience in Matt 16 when he wrote 1 Peter 2:5).
7. We have to see that Satan hates church above all else, because the gates of hell shall try to prevail against it. Satan is not really fearful or worried about an individual Christian, but Satan hates and is fearful of a built up church.
8. We have to see that as a corporate entity of living stones, Satan cannot defeat us, hell does not prevail. Satan's aim is to make us stop going to church, so that he can defeat us. Satan often does this by causing us to be offended, so that we give up on church. Then we can become bitter, angry, twisted, dry, lonely and give up! The key thing is to deny our self, and not forsake the assembly (Heb 10:25).

I agree James- God actually commands us to assemble , a holy convocation, on the Sabbaths and special Holy days - Lev 23:3
We are told to fellowship directly by God so choice only comes into the picture is we disobey God's orders.
The church is like an oasis in a spiritual desert someone once said.
after a week long absence we should be hungry to hear God's word.
We are going into the presence of God to worship Him with fellow Christians.
David inspires us to do such- Psalm 133:1
How do you stir up love and good works if you don't meet together.
Fellow shipping is an integral aspect of spiritual growth and health.
Regular attendance is a direct requirement of a true Christian.
Reading scripture and listening to recorded sermons are important but if you have the good fortune to have a church that fits your beliefs locally and do not
take advantage of it, if you are able, you are missing out on a rule of God. It's the least we can do for the blessings He gives. Spiritual laziness is a characteristic we can do without.

 

[post]

Enter his gates with thanksgiving, and his courts with praise!
Give thanks to him; bless his name!
(Psalm 100:4)

if you go to a 'church service' expecting to be served
you are there for the wrong reason.

we ought to go expecting to serve.

if you are "going hungry from a week long absence of studying His Word"
then i suggest you start walking in the light 7 days a week, instead of only 1.
you cannot depend on your pastor, worship leader, or any other man on earth to perform your devotion to God for you.

if you are hungry, the Word is available to us at all times, take, eat!
if you are thirsty, the Lord offers you living water, come, drink, it is not bought with money, and the tap is always flowing!

when you daily take up your cross and follow Him, meeting weekly or bi-weekly with others for fellowship and to praise Him together is not a burden, but a joy.
but if you hang your cross up in the closet after lunch on sundays, beside your fine clothes, how do you expect to stand before Him without shame?

 

[RJ]

1. We have to see that Satan hates church above all else, because the gates of hell shall try to prevail against it. Satan is not really fearful or worried about an individual Christian, but Satan hates and is fearful of a built up church. I would like to see some scripture that supports that the Devil is not concerned about the individual, he loses the battle one believer at a time whether they are in a corporation of beleivers are not. The church of Jesus is not a building of people somewhere. All church denominations are man made and we know that any one of these across the world, at any Christians across the world.
2. We have to see that as a corporate entity of living stones ( I agree, the enity of individual beleivers that make up the "Body of Christ". There are many church buildings full of Christians and only a percentage are individuals in the body of Christ), Satan cannot defeat us, hell does not prevail. Satan's aim is to make us stop going to church, so that he can defeat us. Satan often does this by causing us to be offended, so that we give up on church. Then we can become bitter, angry, twisted, dry, lonely and give up! The key thing is to deny our self, and not forsake the assembly (Heb 10:25).

• I am a Christian that came that way as a individual; I will die and be judged as an individual not corporately. One of the first things that happened after my salvation was a "first fruit" of the Holy Spirit drawing me to be near like minded Christians.
• You said: "Satan's aim is to make us stop going to church, so that he can defeat us." How can he defeat an individual Christian which is a member of the church universal or the " Body of Christ" ?
• You want to stay strong in the "Body of Christ", you do it first as an individual: you, the Bilble and the Holy Spirit. After that, you support the "Body of Christ" by prophesying to fellow Christians and non-believers. That is how God's church is built up angainst Satan!
  

 

[james1523]

1. We have to see that Satan hates church above all else, because the gates of hell shall try to prevail against it. Satan is not really fearful or worried about an individual Christian, but Satan hates and is fearful of a built up church. I would like to see some scripture that supports that the Devil is not concerned about the individual, he loses the battle one believer at a time whether they are in a corporation of beleivers are not. The church of Jesus is not a building of people somewhere. All church denominations are man made and we know that any one of these across the world, at any Christians across the world.
2. We have to see that as a corporate entity of living stones ( I agree, the enity of individual beleivers that make up the "Body of Christ". There are many church buildings full of Christians and only a percentage are individuals in the body of Christ), Satan cannot defeat us, hell does not prevail. Satan's aim is to make us stop going to church, so that he can defeat us. Satan often does this by causing us to be offended, so that we give up on church. Then we can become bitter, angry, twisted, dry, lonely and give up! The key thing is to deny our self, and not forsake the assembly (Heb 10:25).

• I am a Christian that came that way as a individual; I will die and be judged as an individual not corporately. One of the first things that happened after my salvation was a "first fruit" of the Holy Spirit drawing me to be near like minded Christians.
• You said: "Satan's aim is to make us stop going to church, so that he can defeat us." How can he defeat an individual Christian which is a member of the church universal or the " Body of Christ" ?
• You want to stay strong in the "Body of Christ", you do it first as an individual: you, the Bilble and the Holy Spirit. After that, you support the "Body of Christ" by prophesying to fellow Christians and non-believers. That is how God's church is built up angainst Satan!
  

What about the scripture about us abiding in the vine, Jesus's prayer in John 17 about oneness, and Paul's instructions to the members of the Body. Clearly, it is a corporate entity where each member is joined to the other. We are always in the body of Christ spiritually but not always practically. But we cannot ignore the practical side. We cannot stay at home all by ourself and never go to church and still be in the body of Christ. That's like being married and never living with your wife. I have come to realize there are many people who say they have "spiritual fellowship" but never go to church or like to stay by themselves. It's nonsense, they have no practical experience of what it means to have fellowship, it is just a concept and they are deceiving themselves .

We don't have to do it first as an individual. When we are weak we can come to church and be strengthened and built up. When we go to church, it encourages us to seek God privately, and when we seek God privately, it encourages us to go to church. We build ourselves up individually , and others build us up corporately. It is about constant interaction, fellowship, between us and God privately, and us and God corporately.

Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. To the sheep he says "welcome", to the goats he says "depart from me". That is corporate judgement, is it not? Everyone will be watching everyone else getting judged, it won't be a private affair:
Matt 10:26 For the time is coming when everything that is covered will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all.


This is paraphrased from Rick Warren: Satan wants us to be isolated from the body of Christ. Satan can defeat an individual by isolating them from the body of Christ.
“Encourage one another daily … so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.” (Hebrews 3:13 NIV)
A church family will help keep you from backsliding.

God gave us oversees to watch over us:
“Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God” (Hebrews 13:17 NLT).

Satan loves isolated believers, unplugged from the life of the body, isolated from God's family, and unaccountable to spiritual leaders, because he knows they are defenseless and powerless against his tactics.

 

[RJ]

What about the scripture about us abiding in the vine, Jesus's prayer in John 17 about oneness, and Paul's instructions to the members of the Body. Clearly, it is a corporate entity where each member is joined to the other. We are always in the body of Christ spiritually but not always practically. But we cannot ignore the practical side. We cannot stay at home all by ourself and never go to church and still be in the body of Christ. That's like being married and never living with your wife. I have come to realize there are many people who say they have "spiritual fellowship" but never go to church or like to stay by themselves. It's nonsense, they have no practical experience of what it means to have fellowship, it is just a concept and they are deceiving themselves .

• Malarkey.
• Forgiveness, sanctification, justification, redemption and salvation all occur at the individual level and not corporately.
• With Christ in you, the devil is defeated already from the very foundation of God's creation. Without Christ in you, you are dead spiritually and open game for Satan.
• With Christ in you, you are infused into the "Body of Christ", the church universal and nothing can supplement that!
• With Christ in you, God will call you into community with like-minded Christians. This can be a "church" as you call it, a building of believers but, It does not have to be; it can be in a home or a local meeting place, anywhere there are like minded Christans.
• I have been in a denominational church for 40 years but it has nothing to do with my faith or salvation. I am on session, teach Sunday school, a Lay leader and in a small group.

We don't have to do it first as an individual. When we are weak we can come to church and be strengthened and built up.( I am not strenghtened by church but by the people who come. It is the Christian that brings the light of Christ into the church building, not the other way around.This church of mine for 40 years has done nothing for my strenght. My strenght comes individual between me and the Holy Spirt). When we go to church, it encourages us to seek God privately, and when we seek God privately, it encourages us to go to church (agreed). We build ourselves up individually , and others build us up corporately(some do, some don't!). It is about constant interaction, fellowship, between us and God privately(must have and build on this before you can do the other), and us and God corporately.

Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. To the sheep he says "welcome", to the goats he says "depart from me". That is corporate judgement, is it not? ( Again, malarkey! God will observe each individual for the presence of Christ. Out of the body, in the spirit with the Lord...9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 1 COR 13:9-2...This is done individually and not corporately!) Everyone will be watching everyone else getting judged, it won't be a private affair:
Matt 10:26 For the time is coming when everything that is covered will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all.


This is paraphrased from Rick Warren: Satan wants us to be isolated from the body of Christ. Satan can defeat an individual by isolating them from the body of Christ. (I read a lot of Rick Warrens books and enjoy them a lot but I do not rely on what a man has to say but the word of God!)
“Encourage one another daily … so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.” (Hebrews 3:13 NIV)
A church family will help keep you from backsliding.

God gave us oversees to watch over us:
“Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God” (Hebrews 13:17 NLT).

Satan loves isolated believers, unplugged from the life of the body, isolated from God's family, and unaccountable to spiritual leaders, because he knows they are defenseless and powerless against his tactics.

 

[RJ]

• I believe you have a misconcept about death. It appears that you believe that when you die, you go somewhere and wait. You think that you wait until the Lord returns and raises all Christians corporately.
• I do not. To die means to be instanly and totally spiritual. When you die, your body turns to dust and you spirit goes back from where it came from, God.
• God says he is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth. The truth is, in God's realm, a man is instanly spirit and with the Lord and judged individually, it is not dependent on some future corporate event back in the physical world where space-time-continuum applies. When you die and are spirit there is no space-time-continuum, you are instanly in the presence of God and seprated from those who do not have Christ in them.
• I guess then, at that moment, you could say it happens also corporately. The way this would work is that when you enter God's realm, there is no time as we know it. As we share all of Jesus's inheritence, we are all at the begining and the end at the same time. When you enter heaven and from your spirituall perspective, everything is complete. Christ's return on earth and millinneal reign was complete and all Christians are in heaven together already. Remeber, Ephensians says we are already seated in the heavenlies with the Lord.

 

[james1523]

What about the scripture about us abiding in the vine, Jesus's prayer in John 17 about oneness, and Paul's instructions to the members of the Body. Clearly, it is a corporate entity where each member is joined to the other. We are always in the body of Christ spiritually but not always practically. But we cannot ignore the practical side. We cannot stay at home all by ourself and never go to church and still be in the body of Christ. That's like being married and never living with your wife. I have come to realize there are many people who say they have "spiritual fellowship" but never go to church or like to stay by themselves. It's nonsense, they have no practical experience of what it means to have fellowship, it is just a concept and they are deceiving themselves .

• Malarkey.
• Forgiveness, sanctification, justification, redemption and salvation all occur at the individual level and not corporately.
• With Christ in you, the devil is defeated already from the very foundation of God's creation. Without Christ in you, you are dead spiritually and open game for Satan.
• With Christ in you, you are infused into the "Body of Christ", the church universal and nothing can supplement that!
• With Christ in you, God will call you into community with like-minded Christians. This can be a "church" as you call it, a building of believers but, It does not have to be; it can be in a home or a local meeting place, anywhere there are like minded Christans.
• I have been in a denominational church for 40 years but it has nothing to do with my faith or salvation. I am on session, teach Sunday school, a Lay leader and in a small group.

We don't have to do it first as an individual. When we are weak we can come to church and be strengthened and built up.( I am not strenghtened by church but by the people who come. It is the Christian that brings the light of Christ into the church building, not the other way around.This church of mine for 40 years has done nothing for my strenght. My strenght comes individual between me and the Holy Spirt). When we go to church, it encourages us to seek God privately, and when we seek God privately, it encourages us to go to church (agreed). We build ourselves up individually , and others build us up corporately(some do, some don't!). It is about constant interaction, fellowship, between us and God privately(must have and build on this before you can do the other), and us and God corporately.

Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. To the sheep he says "welcome", to the goats he says "depart from me". That is corporate judgement, is it not? ( Again, malarkey! God will observe each individual for the presence of Christ. Out of the body, in the spirit with the Lord...9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 1 COR 13:9-2...This is done individually and not corporately!) Everyone will be watching everyone else getting judged, it won't be a private affair:
Matt 10:26 For the time is coming when everything that is covered will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all.


This is paraphrased from Rick Warren: Satan wants us to be isolated from the body of Christ. Satan can defeat an individual by isolating them from the body of Christ. (I read a lot of Rick Warrens books and enjoy them a lot but I do not rely on what a man has to say but the word of God!)
“Encourage one another daily … so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.” (Hebrews 3:13 NIV)
A church family will help keep you from backsliding.

God gave us oversees to watch over us:
“Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God” (Hebrews 13:17 NLT).

Satan loves isolated believers, unplugged from the life of the body, isolated from God's family, and unaccountable to spiritual leaders, because he knows they are defenseless and powerless against his tactics.

I did give you Bible verses not man's opinion - Heb 3:13, Heb 13:17, they just happened to be from Rick Warren, and his understanding of these verses would seem accurate, and given he is pastor of one of the largest churches, probably reliable too.

Suppose Heb 3:13 is not being applied.. then we become hardened and deceived by sin.. this will have some affect on our faith and our salvation, that should be obvious. It is possible to shipwreck our faith: 1 Tim 1:19 By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

We need others to watch over our souls Heb 13:17. God did not intend for us to be independent of others. This is reflected in the Lord's prayer, Matt 6:9 our Father in Heaven..

Many people have been saved by and through attending church meetings which proves that salvation is not an isolated affair (1 Cor 14:25).

Even though justification and sanctification is of the individual, God intended a corporate function and accountability between each member, and even for our spirituality to be restricted by others (Romans 14). It is with this lifelong and ongoing aspect of salvation that you seem to be missing the point of what church is all about. Even if no one else in church encourages us, hopefully at least the pastor does through his message.

Spiritual death can result by not going to church, if we don't have others to encourage and strengthen our faith. If we don't get strength by being edified by others in church, then what's the point of edification? Being strengthened in our faith is the whole point of having spiritual gifts.

Re: "With Christ in you, God will call you into community with like-minded Christians. "

Sorry but I must disagree with this statement. God calls us into community with all Christians, no matter how different or similar they are, because learning how to get along with different people is part of maturing spiritually. I have been part of many different denominations and churches and can say that this is how God works. I believe it is our self and our flesh which calls us to fellowship only with like-minded believers, and this is largely the reason why denominations exist, because they put the needs of the individual first above God's will. Probably the two most misleading things to say to a new believer is "find a church that you like", and "find a church which suits you". Both of these ideas are not from God but human opinion.

Re: "

• With Christ in you, you are infused into the "Body of Christ", the church universal and nothing can supplement that!"

Actually we are part of the church universal (you have that right) and we are also part of the church local (we can't ignore this either). Without church local, the Body of Christ has no practicality or meaning to us. It is like being married, and maybe we have the certificate to prove it, but not actually having to live with anyone. Many Christians can believe and accept they are in the church universal, it's easy, they don't ave to do anything or put up with anybody else, like a married person not having to live with their wife. But we are also part of the church local, and it's not so easy, and this is why we have denominations. God's idea of church local is to have every believer in an area meet together, regardless of their affiliation, doctrine, habits, culture, language, and traditions. In the Bible when an apostle went from one area to the next, they did not have to choose between attending 10 different denominations, they sought and found "the church", one church in each area. When Christ speaks to the 7 churches in Revelation, he speaks to one church per local area, not many churches per local area. Jesus does not view denominations as churches, to Him there is only one church per area.

 

[james1523]

• I believe you have a misconcept about death. It appears that you believe that when you die, you go somewhere and wait. You think that you wait until the Lord returns and raises all Christians corporately.
• I do not. To die means to be instanly and totally spiritual. When you die, your body turns to dust and you spirit goes back from where it came from, God.
• God says he is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth. The truth is, in God's realm, a man is instanly spirit and with the Lord and judged individually, it is not dependent on some future corporate event back in the physical world where space-time-continuum applies. When you die and are spirit there is no space-time-continuum, you are instanly in the presence of God and seprated from those who do not have Christ in them.
• I guess then, at that moment, you could say it happens also corporately. The way this would work is that when you enter God's realm, there is no time as we know it. As we share all of Jesus's inheritence, we are all at the begining and the end at the same time. When you enter heaven and from your spirituall perspective, everything is complete. Christ's return on earth and millinneal reign was complete and all Christians are in heaven together already. Remeber, Ephensians says we are already seated in the heavenlies with the Lord.

Everything is not really complete until we live in the New Jerusalem on the New Earth, and Christ hands the kingdom over to the Father. So whichever way we look at it, any time spent in heaven is only temporary.

Your view is really a Catholic concept, but without the purgatory. They believe that the soul or spirit continues on and goes to Heaven. It's all about the spirit/soul getting to heaven. No mention of the New earth or New Jerusalem, or resurrection of the body. It's a common view in Protestant Christianity because the Protestants did not reform all of the false teachings of the Catholic church.

What happened to Jesus? Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until after his resurrection. As Jesus was the first, and we shall follow Him, it shall be so for us as well.

The Bible clearly says that judgement comes after resurrection:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life<wbr style="color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 14.5600004196167px;">, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Mark 9:43 also indicates we will have bodies before we go to hell or heaven.

The idea of souls/spirits being cast into hell is a Catholic idea, not from the Bible. The proper definition of death is separation of the soul/spirit from the body. Therefore, the Lake of Fire, appropriately named the "second death", is to die physically again, but this time permanently.

The spirit/soul does go to God after death, but it is re-united with the body at resurrection, and then judgement. This is explained by Ezekiel 37:1-14. This describes the resurrection of the church, to become a great army to defeat anti-Christ.

 

[judge not]

Everything is not really complete until we live in the New Jerusalem on the New Earth, and Christ hands the kingdom over to the Father. So whichever way we look at it, any time spent in heaven is only temporary.

Your view is really a Catholic concept, but without the purgatory. They believe that the soul or spirit continues on and goes to Heaven. It's all about the spirit/soul getting to heaven. No mention of the New earth or New Jerusalem, or resurrection of the body. It's a common view in Protestant Christianity because the Protestants did not reform all of the false teachings of the Catholic church.

What happened to Jesus? Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until after his resurrection. As Jesus was the first, and we shall follow Him, it shall be so for us as well.

The Bible clearly says that judgement comes after resurrection:

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life<wbr style="color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 14.5600004196167px;">, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Mark 9:43 also indicates we will have bodies before we go to hell or heaven.

The idea of souls/spirits being cast into hell is a Catholic idea, not from the Bible. The proper definition of death is separation of the soul/spirit from the body. Therefore, the Lake of Fire, appropriately named the "second death", is to die physically again, but this time permanently.

The spirit/soul does go to God after death, but it is re-united with the body at resurrection, and then judgement. This is explained by Ezekiel 37:1-14. This describes the resurrection of the church, to become a great army to defeat anti-Christ.

most passages compare death to sleep
promise of immortality only comes through and after the resurrection that takes place in the future.
In Acts 2 we are told David is still asleep and has not ascended into heaven-wouldn't he be a candidate to go to God and wait for a resurrection-that would mean 2 resurrections are going to happen to us? Why would God have us join Him and then return us to our dead bodies only to raise us again?
job 14:12 say we do not rise after death (our soul?) until the end time.
Ezekiel 37 usually refers to the general resurrection " the rest of the dead "-Rev 20:5 -includes all of Israel and everyone else since they only receive God's spirit after they are raised from the dead Eze 37:13-14
what does scripture mean when it says we do not praise God when we are asleep (dead ) and we know nothing? how does this condition equate with being with God?

 

[rag4aCrown]

Greeting in the Lord Jesus;
Be not offended at the Word of God. Amen
Jesus speaking (before he went to the cross) John 12:31, Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.(upon the earth) 32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (Evil, wicked men hang Jesus on the tree. But wait, they were those that gathered in the synagogues, God's people.)
This world has been under judgment since Jesus died for the sins of the entire world.

Be not conformed to this world (are we not conformed to this world? doing the same things as the rest of the world?), but be ye separate from the world (how are we separated? a person "of this world" does not recognize a "child of God" because we do the same things they do.) On Sunday afternoon at Walmart, they recognize, only because of the suit and dress one has on; not because they are believing in God, who supplies ALL our needs; or the speech coming out of the mouth. Amen. They get out of church and go on with their daily lives of buying, selling, building, planting, marrying, and being given in marriage; Hypocrites! Jesus said.

It is not like I am the only one with these observations that the Lord has opened up to me; there are others; OH, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Those folks in the world believe they are not worthy to go to heaven, because they don't and won't go to church with the hypocrites; however, they bend over backwards to help a person they see in need. They don't even know them, but they will help them; they will give them the shirt off their back. A person, sitting on the pew, will not help a brother or sister that sits beside them. Hum...who will receive the greater condemnation? Those who hear the Word and do it not? Or those who do it, out of love in their heart for another, and expect nothing in return? Humm.... No greater love hath a man, than he that will lay down his life for a friend.
Jesus said to come out of those places because we will not find Him in there.

Know ye not, the kingdom of God is within you. He is the door; He is the Church; He is the way, the truth, and the life. He has a baptism to be baptized with. Any, who does not enter in the Door to the sheepfold, and tries to climb up some other way, will be cast out of the wedding party. YES, there is a wedding coming. These are those that are truly baptized BY Him, FOR Him. Amen. Man can not give you this baptism. One, who has been baptized of the Holy Ghost; BY Him, FOR Him, is a servant with a testimony. Amen. Not only your spiritual baptism but many more testimonies do we carry.

Condemnation, of this world's "believers", is coming forth. What condemns us? our own unbelief. "Believers" will be found with the fruits of the Spirit, or the fruits of this world; Know ye not when ye judge another ye condemn yourselves. When "those who say they believe" judge another with carnal fleshly judgment; and not spiritual judgment, we condemn ourselves, OH Glory but want to point the finger in the other direction. Self can not transform self; nor can self teach self to love with God's love; We can put on the face and show up; God knows our heart. They is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed. Amen. HE is sending forth His remnant, His true Church; those who have been "born again" BY Him, FOR Him. Amen.

If one will SEEK HIM; revolve your life around Him, your very being; HE will revolve around your life, and HE will become your very being. Amen. HIS baptism is for ALL who want it; You have to get serious with God; speaking from your heart, not your lips. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Amen.

Many plagues and ailments, men will be struck with; (the hospitals will be destroyed, oh...I can't go to my worldly doctor? whatever will I do?)
Men will not "REPENT" but rather curse God for the mess they have gotten themselves into because of their disobedience to God. Nope, not my fault, nothing I did; God did this. God forbid.
Severe HEAT will come upon this earth; radiation from the sun will penetrate earth's surface; men will be severely burned, the flesh will rot on living beings; Men will curse God, rather than REPENT.
Glory, LORD, Glory be to God.
Many dead will lay in the streets; (blood as deep as the bridle bits); this earth will stink of rotting flesh, the fowls of the air will eat of their rotting flesh........

God will pour out His wrath upon this earth. "FINAL JUDGMENT"
We must be found IN JESUS (covered in HIS BLOOD, being BORN AGAIN, to be preserved and escape the day that God pours His wrath upon this earth.
ALL praise, honor, and glory be to God. Amen

 

[james1523]

most passages compare death to sleep
promise of immortality only comes through and after the resurrection that takes place in the future.
In Acts 2 we are told David is still asleep and has not ascended into heaven-wouldn't he be a candidate to go to God and wait for a resurrection-that would mean 2 resurrections are going to happen to us? Why would God have us join Him and then return us to our dead bodies only to raise us again?
job 14:12 say we do not rise after death (our soul?) until the end time.
Ezekiel 37 usually refers to the general resurrection " the rest of the dead "-Rev 20:5 -includes all of Israel and everyone else since they only receive God's spirit after they are raised from the dead Eze 37:13-14
what does scripture mean when it says we do not praise God when we are asleep (dead ) and we know nothing? how does this condition equate with being with God?

Sleep only refers to the physical body. But from God's point of view the dead are not sleeping they are alive:
Luke 20:38 "So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him"

The Bible teaches that the spirit goes somewhere:
Ecc 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Bible teaches there is a consciousness after death, the spirit/soul is not sleeping, it can think, reason, feel, and has a will (Luke 16:22-24).

Jesus preached to the conscious spirits in Hades while in his spirit/soul form: 1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The spirit is God's breath and is eternal, it cannot sleep and cannot die.

 

[judge not]

Sleep only refers to the physical body. But from God's point of view the dead are not sleeping they are alive:
Luke 20:38 "So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him"

The Bible teaches that the spirit goes somewhere:
Ecc 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Bible teaches there is a consciousness after death, the spirit/soul is not sleeping, it can think, reason, feel, and has a will (Luke 16:22-24).

Jesus preached to the conscious spirits in Hades while in his spirit/soul form: 1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The spirit is God's breath and is eternal, it cannot sleep and cannot die.

Quote
In Ecc 12:7 -this speaks of everyone whoever died, not just the righteous, so are the unrighteous and evil ones going to be with God?
On the other hand it would make sense if this is referring to the general resurrection after the return of Jesus for judgment.

The spirits in 1 Peter 3 are fallen angels, demon spirits who were disobedient to God (verse 22) and prison is there banishment here on earth.

In 1 Thess 4:14-18 Paul says the righteous dead wait in the graves until the 1st resurrection shall rise first-this will be the first resurrection of anyone in Christ at this time.
Since Christ is coming to earth to reign that's where the resurrected saints will be with Him-on earth not in some holding area in heaven from the time of their physical death

Jesus Himself says in John 6:40 that He will raise the righteous up at the last day--not after physical death.

Matt 10;28- ',,,,,,fear Him who can destroy both the body and the soul "

1 Cor 15:52 -shows at the resurrection the saved will gain immortality and before then the dead are asleep in their graves.
Also John 5;28-29 and Dan 12;2 describes the same event.

Is there any scripture that clearly says any Christians who die will stay in transit until the resurrection and then join Christ in heaven?

Psalm 13:3 refers to the " sleep of death "

the spirit animates man -it has no separate existence apart from the body - Job 34: 14, 15

the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was told to illustrate the danger of wealth and the necessity of repentance not about our curiosity of the condition of man after death - Murray Harris , author of the book " raised immortal '
Jesus used literary licence in this case, which was consistent with the allegorical method He used often

 

[james1523]

Sleep only refers to the physical body. But from God's point of view the dead are not sleeping they are alive:
Luke 20:38 "So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him"

The Bible teaches that the spirit goes somewhere:
Ecc 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Bible teaches there is a consciousness after death, the spirit/soul is not sleeping, it can think, reason, feel, and has a will (Luke 16:22-24).

Jesus preached to the conscious spirits in Hades while in his spirit/soul form: 1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The spirit is God's breath and is eternal, it cannot sleep and cannot die.

Quote
In Ecc 12:7 -this speaks of everyone whoever died, not just the righteous, so are the unrighteous and evil spirits going to be with God?
On the other hand it would make sense if this is referring to the general resurrection after the return of Jesus for judgment.

The spirits in 1 Peter 3 are fallen angels, demon spirits who were disobedient to God (verse 22) and prison is there banishment here on earth.

In 1 Thess 4:14-18 Paul says the righteous dead wait in the graves until the 1st resurrection shall rise first-this will be the first resurrection of anyone in Christ at this time.
Since Christ is coming to earth to reign that's where the resurrected saints will be with Him-on earth not in some holding area in heaven.

Jesus Himself says in John 6:40 that He will raise the righteous up at the last day--not after physical death.

Matt 10;28- ',,,,,,fear Him who can destroy both the body and the soul "

1 Cor 15:52 -shows at the resurrection the saved will gain immortality and before then the dead are asleep in their graves.
Also John 5;28-29 and Dan 12;2 describes the same event.

Is there any scripture that clearly says Christians will stay in transit until the resurrection and the join Christ in heaven?

Psalm 13:3 refers to the " sleep of death "

the spirit animates man -it has no separate existence apart from the body - Job 34: 14, 15

I guess it's hard to believe the existence of the spirit separate from the body, if you don't believe in the Spirit.

 

[judge not]

Sleep only refers to the physical body. But from God's point of view the dead are not sleeping they are alive:
Luke 20:38 "So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him"

The Bible teaches that the spirit goes somewhere:
Ecc 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Bible teaches there is a consciousness after death, the spirit/soul is not sleeping, it can think, reason, feel, and has a will (Luke 16:22-24).

Jesus preached to the conscious spirits in Hades while in his spirit/soul form: 1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The spirit is God's breath and is eternal, it cannot sleep and cannot die.

Quote
In Ecc 12:7 -this speaks of everyone whoever died, not just the righteous, so are the unrighteous and evil spirits going to be with God?
On the other hand it would make sense if this is referring to the general resurrection after the return of Jesus for judgment.

The spirits in 1 Peter 3 are fallen angels, demon spirits who were disobedient to God (verse 22) and prison is there banishment here on earth.

In 1 Thess 4:14-18 Paul says the righteous dead wait in the graves until the 1st resurrection shall rise first-this will be the first resurrection of anyone in Christ at this time.
Since Christ is coming to earth to reign that's where the resurrected saints will be with Him-on earth not in some holding area in heaven.

Jesus Himself says in John 6:40 that He will raise the righteous up at the last day--not after physical death.

Matt 10;28- ',,,,,,fear Him who can destroy both the body and the soul "

1 Cor 15:52 -shows at the resurrection the saved will gain immortality and before then the dead are asleep in their graves.
Also John 5;28-29 and Dan 12;2 describes the same event.

Is there any scripture that clearly says Christians will stay in transit until the resurrection and the join Christ in heaven?

Psalm 13:3 refers to the " sleep of death "

the spirit animates man -it has no separate existence apart from the body - Job 34: 14, 15

 

[judge not]

Sleep only refers to the physical body. But from God's point of view the dead are not sleeping they are alive:
Luke 20:38 "So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him"

The Bible teaches that the spirit goes somewhere:
Ecc 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

The Bible teaches there is a consciousness after death, the spirit/soul is not sleeping, it can think, reason, feel, and has a will (Luke 16:22-24).

Jesus preached to the conscious spirits in Hades while in his spirit/soul form: 1 Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The spirit is God's breath and is eternal, it cannot sleep and cannot die.

Quote
In Ecc 12:7 -this speaks of everyone whoever died, not just the righteous, so are the unrighteous and evil spirits going to be with God?
On the other hand it would make sense if this is referring to the general resurrection after the return of Jesus for judgment.

The spirits in 1 Peter 3 are fallen angels, demon spirits who were disobedient to God (verse 22) and prison is there banishment here on earth.

In 1 Thess 4:14-18 Paul says the righteous dead wait in the graves until the 1st resurrection shall rise first-this will be the first resurrection of anyone in Christ at this time.
Since Christ is coming to earth to reign that's where the resurrected saints will be with Him-on earth not in some holding area in heaven.

Jesus Himself says in John 6:40 that He will raise the righteous up at the last day--not after physical death.

Matt 10;28- ',,,,,,fear Him who can destroy both the body and the soul "

1 Cor 15:52 -shows at the resurrection the saved will gain immortality and before then the dead are asleep in their graves.
Also John 5;28-29 and Dan 12;2 describes the same event.

Is there any scripture that clearly says Christians will stay in transit until the resurrection and the join Christ in heaven?

Psalm 13:3 refers to the " sleep of death "

the spirit animates man -it has no separate existence apart from the body - Job 34: 14, 15

Sorry I did a double reply to the post before

 

[LoveStory]

most passages compare death to sleep
promise of immortality only comes through and after the resurrection that takes place in the future.
In Acts 2 we are told David is still asleep and has not ascended into heaven-wouldn't he be a candidate to go to God and wait for a resurrection-that would mean 2 resurrections are going to happen to us? Why would God have us join Him and then return us to our dead bodies only to raise us again?
job 14:12 say we do not rise after death (our soul?) until the end time.
Ezekiel 37 usually refers to the general resurrection " the rest of the dead "-Rev 20:5 -includes all of Israel and everyone else since they only receive God's spirit after they are raised from the dead Eze 37:13-14
what does scripture mean when it says we do not praise God when we are asleep (dead ) and we know nothing? how does this condition equate with being with God?

Interesting subject. What do you make of people who have near death experiences and claim to see Jesus, relatives, and heaven?

 

[judge not]

James 1523-
i believe in the human spirit-the spirit of man-it is the life force which God breathed into us which made us a living soul.
But He did not give us an immortal spirit at time of creation that is something that we obtain in the future if we are in Christ at the
time of the resurrection of the dead.
Our spirit now is the mortality principle and energy that makes human life and thought possible. Read Job 34:14,15 , Job 33:4
Eccl 12:7 -is being interpreted that the spirit in man is equated with the immortal soul but it means by that verse all people who die goes to heaven irrespective of their relationship with Jesus Christ.
But the scriptures only teach that the breath of life is equated with the life or spirit in man Isa 42:5, Job 27:3
Immortality is our reward at the end time, everyone does not have that Godly spirit inherent, it is something we reap in the future.
jn

 

[judge not]

Interesting subject. What do you make of people who have near death experiences and claim to see Jesus, relatives, and heaven?

well near death is not actual death. It may just be functions of the brain even though the heart and lungs have stopped.
lazarus died but there is no biblical record of him sharing any experience of being with the Lord.
Before going to Lazarus Jesus said he was asleep-deaded.
NDE's may seem real but they are not the biblical explanation of death.
the descriptions of heaven people remember do not correspond with the description of the third heaven, the throne of God given in the bible.
People see a light, go thru tunnels, rainbows, fields of flowers-there is no common connection to the heaven Jesus or the Bible teaches.
Who would you rather believe?

 

[LoveStory]

well near death is not actual death. It may just be functions of the brain even though the heart and lungs have stopped.
lazarus died but there is no biblical record of him sharing any experience of being with the Lord.
Before going to Lazarus Jesus said he was asleep-deaded.
NDE's may seem real but they are not the biblical explanation of death.
the descriptions of heaven people remember do not correspond with the description of the third heaven, the throne of God given in the bible.
People see a light, go thru tunnels, rainbows, fields of flowers-there is no common connection to the heaven Jesus or the Bible teaches.
Who would you rather believe?

Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to him, “Today, truly, you’ll be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus didn't tell him he would have to wait a couple thousand years.

When I close my eyes for the last time, don't sing me a lullaby because I'm not sleeping! I'm going to be with Jesus in paradise! There will be no stops, no layovers, and no connecting flights!