How America Destroyed the Gospel (Do you agree?)

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ. Take a look at this video and let me know your thoughts.
Stay blessed.

 

[Dave M]

Prosperity Gospel is false doctrine to put it kindly. IMO

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

If men can destroy the gospel then it wasn't really good news at all.

 

[B-A-C]

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

If men can destroy the gospel then it wasn't really good news at all.

those who love God.. Can you love God and money at the same time? ( Matt 6:24; Luke 16:13; )

together for the good... Is money always a good thing?

I agree the gospel itself cannot be destroyed. However there are many things called the gospel, which have very little to do with the gospel at all.

1Tim 6:5; and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Tit 1:7; For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,

Tit 1:10; For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
Tit 1:11; who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

1 Pet 5:2; shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;

Sometimes God does bless us... in many ways... usually not financially, but sometimes yes financially also. But that isn't the message of the gospel.

2 Cor 2:17; For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

The old testament wasn't perfect. It was difficult to be saved under the old law... but yet there are those who were.
Joseph, Daniel, Isaac, Abraham, Moses, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednigo, Esther, Ruth, David, Jonathan, and hundreds more.
When Jesus died on the cross it says "the saints" rose from their graves. There were saints from the old testament.

There is much more mercy and grace in the new testament, for those who repent.
So it's easier to get saved if you're trying to do the right things and live the right way.
But it's still possible to do the wrong things for the wrong reasons... even "in the name of God".

The gospel doesn't say everyone WILL be saved. It says everyone CAN be saved. That's the good news.

The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost,
Christianity without Christ, Forgiveness without repentance, Salvation without regeneration,
Politics without God, Heaven without Hell. -- William Booth

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost,
Christianity without Christ, Forgiveness without repentance, Salvation without regeneration,
Politics without God, Heaven without Hell. -- William Booth

Nice quote. Indeed.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

those who love God.. Can you love God and money at the same time? ( Matt 6:24; Luke 16:13; )

together for the good... Is money always a good thing?

There are obviously abuses but my point is that Jesus sees these things and God is still in control.
Worry,fear and frustration about direction of things is unbelief in God's plan and perhaps even his character.
Philippians 4:6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 4:38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, "Teacher, don't you care if we drown?"
The disciple did not question Jesus's ability but they questioned his intentions and character.Ouch!
People often start out in a ministry that appeals to an unregenerate mind and then if they are truly seeking God he will call them out.
I learned much from ministries that I now consider to be very much in error.

We can give God the glory and let the Holy Spirit correct error in those who seek correction.

Philippians 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will;
Philippians 1:16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;
Philippians 1:17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
Philippians 1:18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice

 

[B-A-C]

There are obviously abuses but my point is that Jesus sees these things and God is still in control.
Worry,fear and frustration about direction of things is unbelief in God's plan and perhaps even his character.
Philippians 4:6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

I think there's a difference between being worried, fearful or frustrated and simply being aware.
Paul called these people out at least 4 times. (Not counting Php 1; )

We can give God the glory and let the Holy Spirit correct error in those who seek correction.

"Those who seek" correction.. amen. But why would they seek correction if they are unaware they need any?
Sometimes God/the Holy Spirit use people around us to give us direction, but the spirits should be tested,
and the Spirit will never disagree with the word.

 

[timaeusTestified]

I can't see why you would want to put it kindly, if I am to be honest. It is designed to take money from people who need it most by taking advantage of the fact that they have nothing else but their ability to hope for something better, and use religion as a way to make money which they don't have to pay taxes on no matter how blatantly they use it for things that are obviously unrelated to what they say they intend to.

 

[Dave M]

I can't see why you would want to put it kindly, if I am to be honest. It is designed to take money from people who need it most by taking advantage of the fact that they have nothing else but their ability to hope for something better, and use religion as a way to make money which they don't have to pay taxes on no matter how blatantly they use it for things that are obviously unrelated to what they say they intend to.

You know you are right, the prosperity gospel is from the pits of hell, it is sickening these people are doing to the people who want to believe and are being mis guided. Jesus warns us all through the bible about wanting and lusting after money and things, like the rich guy who asked Jesus how could he have eternal salvation and Jesus says sell everything and give the proceeds to the poor and follow me, or the camel through the eye of the needle, or the rich guy with barns full of his stuff, lots more examples in the bible to find, I bet you never here those stories at Joel's service. I herd Joel and Oprah talking the other day about how God want everyone to be very rich and prosperous and material things were great and pleased God, this to me is pure evil and sinister, these people who preach this stuff I just wonder if they are so blind they believe themselves, or if they are purposely lying to people to get people to loose there salvation.

I admit a couple of years ago I was way to blind to know any better myself !! Man I thank the Lord for opening my eyes and letting me see, Praise Jesus !!

 

[Brighthouse]

LOL Coming out from that movement myself, there is one scripture they will never show, ( 1 Cor 4:10-16)and when I asked Copland himself about it,I was told "you need a revelation from the Lord himself to understand our teaching". LOL I then gave him ( 1 John 4:1) and walked out. lol I guess Paul did not have enough faith LOL verse 11!!

 

[timotheus]

My sense on this is going to be a little different than some other opinions shared here. Not saying I agree with "prosperity gospel" - I don't - but I don't want to waste energy ranking on brothers / sisters with a different "bent". I can't tell from where I sit - unless the fruit is bad - whether someone's heart convictions are evil (intentionally greedy), deceived (trying to follow the Lord, but they have been tricked), or genuinely just different on some things.

Here is a thought ... Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4 ESV). It would be kind of embarrassing to be spending time and energy criticizing a brother here on earth and then finding him (or her) standing before the Lord, forgiven and accepted when I get to heaven. (whoops...)

Not saying we shouldn't use discernment on what we listen to, what we support .... we should. Am just thinking of Jesus with Peter and John in John 22 when Peter starts asking "what about him Lord?" (my paraphrase) in referring to the apostle / disciple John. Jesus answered "what is that to you? You follow me ... ". I have my work cut out following Him ...

 

[believer1952]

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ. Take a look at this video and let me know your thoughts.
Stay blessed.

I look at things like this, and I sometime get furious, or at the least, exasperated at the ways of the world. Half-truths, taking what we like from the Word, and leaving the rest, sometimes even adding in "what we think the Word means". I say we, because I backslide, but yet the Truth is in me, He lives in me. I especially like what @B-A-C mentioned. The gospel can't be destroyed, but it can be misinterpreted, misused, or just, flat ignored. God will continue to use His people to keep His Light shining though. Thank God, because this world is on the wrong path, and it needs true followers of Christ to show it the Way.

 

[believer1952]

There are obviously abuses but my point is that Jesus sees these things and God is still in control.
Worry,fear and frustration about direction of things is unbelief in God's plan and perhaps even his character.
Philippians 4:6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 4:38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, "Teacher, don't you care if we drown?"
The disciple did not question Jesus's ability but they questioned his intentions and character.Ouch!
People often start out in a ministry that appeals to an unregenerate mind and then if they are truly seeking God he will call them out.
I learned much from ministries that I now consider to be very much in error.

We can give God the glory and let the Holy Spirit correct error in those who seek correction.

Philippians 1:15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will;
Philippians 1:16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;
Philippians 1:17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
Philippians 1:18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice

That was my thought as well, God is either in control, or He is not. That's why, when I do get upset with the world, I can turn back to His Word and know that there isn't anything going on, that He is not allowing. And I believe it is for His, good purpose. As I mentioned in another thread, I do NOT always understand God, and I get mad at Him and ask why, why, why. I believe His answer is the same, because I am God your Father, and I know what you need. Who doesn't know what we need, is not always what we want.

 

[Brighthouse]

Brother Timotheus John 15:5-8! It is not the brother i judge but rather the fruit which he bore as a witness to this false doctrine of men. In this light is show where darkness looks to hid from.( Matt 10:27 and Luke 12:2-3) This dark lie, which is still proclaimed today,has cost many fruitful lives,for we are not like many who look to peddle the Word of God!( 2Cor 2:17)

And to become aware that as mature believers we must remind others that what you hear matters!( Mark 4:24) and that some who take the name of brother or sister,may indeed disguise themselves, even as satan did Eve!( 2 Cor 11:14-15) I knew this man personal when I walked among those who preached this ticking word.I just remind others to do as the Lord leads in this.( Acts 5:38-39) For some still walk among us,this day,for some purpose only the Lord knows.It is not the person I judge,but rather the result which has hurt so many who take this message as a part of the Gospel. Blessing

 

[Dave M]

My sense on this is going to be a little different than some other opinions shared here. Not saying I agree with "prosperity gospel" - I don't - but I don't want to waste energy ranking on brothers / sisters with a different "bent". I can't tell from where I sit - unless the fruit is bad - whether someone's heart convictions are evil (intentionally greedy), deceived (trying to follow the Lord, but they have been tricked), or genuinely just different on some things.

Here is a thought ... Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4 ESV). It would be kind of embarrassing to be spending time and energy criticizing a brother here on earth and then finding him (or her) standing before the Lord, forgiven and accepted when I get to heaven. (whoops...)

Not saying we shouldn't use discernment on what we listen to, what we support .... we should. Am just thinking of Jesus with Peter and John in John 22 when Peter starts asking "what about him Lord?" (my paraphrase) in referring to the apostle / disciple John. Jesus answered "what is that to you? You follow me ... ". I have my work cut out following Him ...

Hey Tim I remember thinking the same way. I started looking for answeres and what I found is that false teachers are getting easier for me to spot the more I get into the word. SOme of the things that make a false teacher stick out are the following,

1. Never talks about Hell
2. Never talks about repentance.
3. Never talks about the temptations of riches and materialism.
4. Never talks that we are all sinners and need to be saved.

This is what I use if I am not sure if I am listening to a false teacher.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Well said, I' ve found the same.

 

[believer1952]

I think the term I hear most, regarding your list @Dave M is "watered down" gospel. I think there is only one reason for it, "people pleasing". Of course that really isn't accurate when I see it in black and white. PP is when people want something, so we give it to them. I don't think "most" will ever want ALL the Truth. I mean the bible does say that many are called, but few are chosen. May have misquoted that so I will find the verse as reference.

Matthew 22:14New King James Version (NKJV)
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

I know that I have to read the whole bible, not pick and choose what I like. I want to attend church, but I want to hear even the things that make me uncomfortable, and are hard to grasp. I don't think the bible was written for any true believer to disagree with anything in it. But to study it, and yes, ideas, and opinions are interesting to hear, and sometimes even helpful, but faith that it IS God's Word, and acceptance of the things we don't understand about Him, but can trust He has our best interests in His relentless love. I've always loved that term, relentless love, that's God's love, he pursues us, and never gives up. But still, sadly, some will not listen to Him.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

PP is when people want something, so we give it to them. I don't think "most" will ever want ALL the Truth.

Very true.

 

[B-A-C]

I don't think "most" will ever want ALL the Truth.

2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have other's agree with them, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2 Tim 4:4; and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

I think "the time" has already come. You don't have to look very hard to find preachers that will support
anything, homosexuality, pedophilia, adultery, licentiousness, universalism, -- all in the name of Jesus.

 

[Brighthouse]

There is a wild contrast between this scripture 3 John 1:2-4 Many look at the word prosper as money,but it seems clear to me in verse 3-4 what prosperity is being talked about! TRUTH! walking in truth! If it is not truth,but rather money then for the only time in the Bible, a disciple is caught in prayer for something which never can happen! No where in the New Covenant is something prayed for which did not occur to them!! And this scripture!! ( 1 Tim 5:23) Your what??? frequent illness or ailments!

They tell you the reason why you suffer is because YOU lack faith.Which is a lie to start with!!( Rom 12:3) As God has allotted to each a measure of faith! If a brother or a sister can have more or less then another,then you better throw out these two verses from scripture!!( Rom 2:11,and Acts 10:34!) The point! Norman Vincent Peale wrote the power of positive thinking using his own strength rather then upon the Word of God himself. And it can work for a while!! I know!! LOL I did it!! What happens to a person who practices such is that one's thanksgiving to the Lord( 1 Thess 5:18) becomes lost!( The VERY WILL OF GOD!!)

And when that happens so does the person himself,or herself. Then I would blame others because of my own lack of knowledge!( Hosea 4:6) The foundation laid for this ugly deception comes from the terrible twisting of these verses!( Rom 4:17-18) It is said that because we are the very descendants ( verse 18) we have the same right to call into being that which does not exist! ( verse 17). Of course what is not spoken is the very content of the subject matter to start with!! Sarah!! please look at verse 13-25!!!! it is easy to lose ones way in thought,word,or deed,hence why it is so important to examine our self as to our faith we hold so dear to us!!( 2 Cor 13:5) I ask to consider this in our walk.