Hello from JJ50

[JJ50]

I thought I had stated my position quite clearly.

 

[Chad]

I thought I had stated my position quite clearly.

The problem isn't Christianity. You have no right to blame Christianity based on your perception and those who shoved the "dogma" down your throat. By the way, you're not a kid anymore, so it's time to grow up and start acting and thinking like an adult.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I thought I had stated my position quite clearly.

You are talking to who? and if it is to me. Then you have not. Just stating "born again" without defining it leaves much conjecture to how you perceive it. If you not sure, there is no problem admitting to this. Many Christians aren't quite sure of how to verbalize this. Even Nicodemus did not comprehend what Jesus was saying when this reference was made. So, once again I ask, what do you mean by "born again"?
With the Love of Christ.
C4E

 

[TC4JC]

Hi JJ50,
I've been following along on this thread for a few days now, and I just wanted to share with you some things in my past that you might relate to.
For many years I hated God. I came up in the Pentecostal eastern Appalachian form of worship. Being a kid and watching those folks jump over pews and roll their eyes back in their heads while murmuring some sort of gibberish and then the preacher talking in a normal voice that leads up to a screaming crescendo, literally scared the bejeebers out of me. I just knew I was going to Hell. Couldn't live up to those high standards.
Then as an adult, I made some pretty bad choices and suffered the consequences of those choices, and all the while I just knew God didn't love me. How can God allow good people to die too young and how can God bless other people and not me used to run through my mind a lot. So there I was...., doomed!
Fast forward a few more years and I meet up with a pretty little lady and wound up marrying her. She loved Jesus. She always wanted me to go to church with her, and even told me I was on the prayer list. I think I blew my top as I remember. Now this little lady laid out some books by Charles Stanley. She knew I loved to read anything in sight. So I picked them up and started reading. We'll that wasn't enough , so I pulled out my Bible she gave me, and now once and for all, I was on a mission to prove God to be a liar. That way I could justify my thought that God didn't love me at all.
As I read the Bible, it was like reading Chinese. I didn't understand it at all. But I still couldn't put it down. Then God started showing me things that I could understand. Not much at first, but He did show me ..., ME! It wasn't God out to get me or those Bible thumpers. It was me against me the whole time. But I didn't go easily. I went kicking and screaming and dragging my heels,but God is so long suffering.
After a while I started reading verses in the Bible that says the Bible is a riddle to folks that don't have the Holy Spirit inside them to teach them the nature of God. I had to admit that was me.
Then I began to hunger for His Word. Couldn't put the book down. God was showing me His nature. So I started trusting Him with my life. Little by little then by leaps and bounds!! I can now say I love God now , more than I ever hated Him.
When the student is ready, The Teacher will appear,.
I also learned that some folks honor their Christianity more than they honor Christ. But I can't hold it against them. We're all right where we are supposed to be, but not where God will leave us. The more I want to learn of Him , the more He is willing to show me.
I just wanted to share this with you. I was guilty of falling for one of Satan's lies. Many people do. But I'm living proof that there is a God , and He loves even me.

 

[Chad]

Thank you @TC4JC. I just happened to be listening to a Charles Stanley podcast right now as I got the thread email notification of your reply. The title of this podcast sermon is "The Two Paths of Life".

Not a coincidence, @JJ50

 

[JJ50]

The problem isn't Christianity. You have no right to blame Christianity based on your perception and those who shoved the "dogma" down your throat. By the way, you're not a kid anymore, so it's time to grow up and start acting and thinking like an adult.

It is your sort of 'Christian' attitude which is very off putting and confirms my view about the unpleasant 'born again' dogma. The adult thing to do where the Bible is concerned is to question it, and question it some more. If a scenario isn't credible as many of those in the Bible aren't, the adult thing to do is to challenge them!

 

[JJ50]

You are talking to who? and if it is to me. Then you have not. Just stating "born again" without defining it leaves much conjecture to how you perceive it. If you not sure, there is no problem admitting to this. Many Christians aren't quite sure of how to verbalize this. Even Nicodemus did not comprehend what Jesus was saying when this reference was made. So, once again I ask, what do you mean by "born again"?
With the Love of Christ.
C4E

'Born again', giving your life over to Jesus and getting 'saved' so you go to heaven. I had that dogma forced down my throat all throughout my childhood. Looking back I am truly amazed I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure I was under. I tried to keep the doubts under wraps and try to be a good little Christian for a few years, even trying to convert my school friends, thankfully without success! However I did stand firm when I was 13. I was due to have surgery on my eyes and a few days before a Christian 'healer' was to conduct a 'healing' service at our church. My instincts told me it was hocus pocus and I preferred to submit to surgery than a so called 'healer'. Some years later we heard the guy had been outed as a charlatan, as so many of them are! When I was 14 the married pastor at our church like to stroke my thigh when driving me home fro the midweek youth service, telling me how beautiful my mother was. I know so many of the so called 'saved' who have cheated on their partners, including a very close relative, no doubt believing once saved always 'saved'!

My late parents-in-law were Bible believing, dyed in the wool of the lamb, 'born agains'. I never saw them smile and they were a pain in the neck. Father-in-law used towrite my husband letters telling him how disappointed they were in him and quoting endless mindless Biblical verses! HOW SICK. :secret: When asked to put his hand in his pocket for a donation for starving people, he refused saying he would only give money for Bibles for them as that was more important! What an idiot! Mother-in-law and the deity were buddies, it agreed with all her thoughts, even down to which TV programmes she preferred and what clothes to wear! Actually that was highly amusing!

A faith which insists you believe or else is highly unpleasant. If Jesus was alive today instead of long dead as I believe him to be, I wonder what he might make of those who make threats in his name? "Depart from me for I never knew you!" could well apply to some of the 'born again's' who make the lives of others a misery with their nasty spiel. Far from making people want some of the action it has the effect of turning them right off!:baffle:

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@JJ50

Enough of your scathing words and despising of Christianity.

Why come to Talk Jesus, a Christian forum, if all you wish to do is mock Christianity.
The members here have made loving attempts to show you how wonderful it is to be saved and how the Lord has worked in their lives.

I pray that one day your heart will be opened to the truth and that you will come to know the beautiful joy of Salvation

Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out
John 6:37

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

After reading you're posts its very clear you are mad and wounded by those that claim to be Christians in the past ! Let me say its ok Gods not made at you He loves you and we try to show same but somtimes the hurt and anger we feel makes us quick to lump all into one barrel ! Not quite fair I think ! Not all is bad about Christianity and no matter how you want to cut it God still loves above all the men's dogma that you have seen .dont look to men in this but to God alone , you have every right to be angry at man but not God . I hope and pray that understanding be youres in Gods time child and that the scars of past men be healed ...Rev

 

[TC4JC]

Amen Rev!!! We'll said.

 

[Christ4Ever]

'Born again', giving your life over to Jesus and getting 'saved' so you go to heaven. I had that dogma forced down my throat all throughout my childhood. Looking back I am truly amazed I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure I was under. I tried to keep the doubts under wraps and try to be a good little Christian for a few years, even trying to convert my school friends, thankfully without success! However I did stand firm when I was 13. I was due to have surgery on my eyes and a few days before a Christian 'healer' was to conduct a 'healing' service at our church. My instincts told me it was hocus pocus and I preferred to submit to surgery than a so called 'healer'. Some years later we heard the guy had been outed as a charlatan, as so many of them are! When I was 14 the married pastor at our church like to stroke my thigh when driving me home fro the midweek youth service, telling me how beautiful my mother was. I know so many of the so called 'saved' who have cheated on their partners, including a very close relative, no doubt believing once saved always 'saved'!

My late parents-in-law were Bible believing, dyed in the wool of the lamb, 'born agains'. I never saw them smile and they were a pain in the neck. Father-in-law used towrite my husband letters telling him how disappointed they were in him and quoting endless mindless Biblical verses! HOW SICK. :secret: When asked to put his hand in his pocket for a donation for starving people, he refused saying he would only give money for Bibles for them as that was more important! What an idiot! Mother-in-law and the deity were buddies, it agreed with all her thoughts, even down to which TV programmes she preferred and what clothes to wear! Actually that was highly amusing!

A faith which insists you believe or else is highly unpleasant. If Jesus was alive today instead of long dead as I believe him to be, I wonder what he might make of those who make threats in his name? "Depart from me for I never knew you!" could well apply to some of the 'born again's' who make the lives of others a misery with their nasty spiel. Far from making people want some of the action it has the effect of turning them right off!:baffle:

I am so sorry for the pain you experienced and how it has carried on with you throughout the years. We who love the Lord and love you as well whether you believe that or not, cannot but feel for what happened to you as a child, and the damage it has done in distorting the message that really is about love and a joy that can be difficult to comprehension when set against what the world would call love. Too often the messengers confuse or twist the message that was given through Christ Jesus, and His Apostles. Theirs was a hard life, death, and yet you can find the joy also within the words available to you. The underlining understanding that the ravages of life as we now know and experience should not, is not, an impediment to what the future holds for those who believe. Yet you continue to allow the earlier experiences and maybe even others experiences throughout your life, in turn determined by others, motivated by who knows what, to color what your own children have found hope in. Christianity since its inception has had those who have distorted, perverted, lied, made up, or just been plan confused about what Christ Jesus came to do, and desired for those who believe in Him to carry on with until His return to do as well. Not to confuse the issue there is a darkness as well that permeates the world and affects the very perceptions of people. Since you've read scripture if you can recall when Jesus was taken out to the desert to be tempted. Satan used scripture, in an attempt to derail Him. Is it any wonder that some of the worse that is perceived by those who don't know Him. Are swayed by those who in His name justify what is contrary to His teaching by using the very book meant to instruct and learn by? Your upbringing is a perfect example of such. However, the very light that is Christ Jesus, is available to those who seek His truth, as you may not admit to, are doing here now at TJ.

On the born again concept on the surface it appears that you only have a part in understanding what "Born Again" means. You went from birth to full grown adult in one leap! Were it only so! As a baby newly born goes through pains of understanding and experiences, so does the Born Again Christian. A growing process if you will. The experiences normally taught may even come through hard and painful times. Take a look at the lives of the Apostles and you will see this very thing. None of us are perfect or profess to be (might be some out there who might think they are) yet traveling that road to that goal is a worthy road to travel. A process of growth.

There is a reason why scripture says "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." . When doctrines as you know get thrown about here and there, saying "do this", "don't do this" only if one can know His Word and understand the context within the entirety of His Word the significance of what is being read, as revealed by the Holy Spirit will be the who is able to identify what is or is not of God. How did Jesus reply back to Satan?

The availability of what you have at hand to determine the truth, requires a belief, an open heart seeking truth, which if you don't have provides one with little of value. Likely, more confusion, frustration, and a greater tendency to give credence to nay sayers which is the category that you're currently in, and one which I pray and hope you won't be residing in for long.

I will end with this. As a child you recognized that something was amiss with the folks around you and how they were behaving. Yet when alone, outside the contrivance of anyone else, there was a part of you that knew that He was. Sadly, the folks had made you too afraid to go directly to Him, though you might have. You might have asked Him to get you out of there away from these people and these things they were babbling about. If you were to think about it, that is exactly what He did, but you left one thing behind that you should have taken with you and that was Him. To be truthful, I don't think He has left you behind.
Still loving and praying for you JJ50
C4E

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

JJ50...I continue to read over all this and my heart is so broken that no one told you of the Love God has for you even if the messengers were with fault , yes it's not right what you were taught or shown for that matter . I'd like to get you to PM me so we can talk away from prying eyes . Nothing weird just some times to many things muddy the waters more .if you want to chat with me I'd like to invest in you because you're worth it ! The Christ I know is not what you've seen . I pray God judge those who placed a stumbling block at you're path and you contact me soon ! Its not by chance you found us ! im of the belief that you were led here by God because he hasnt given up on you and neither will I ..Rev Dooley , a friend !

 

[james1523]

My experience of people who claim to be 'born again' is unfortunate to say the least. The pastor of the Pentecostal (Elim) church I attended as a child offered to drive me home from the mid week youth meetings I attended when I was fourteen in the 60s. He liked to stroke the upper part of my leg, telling me how beautiful my mother was! I told my 'born again' parents, my father thought it funny, my mother said I was exaggerating! One of the church deacons described to me exactly what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft! Many of the members you wouldn't have bought a used car off if you didn't want to be cheated. My late father believed in the once 'saved' always 'saved' concept, very convenient as it meant that whatever you did after you got born again, you were still assured of a place in heaven! I still know many 'born agains' and their take on Christianity does nothing to float my boat.

I have absolutely no problem with mainstream Christians who let their deeds do the talking, but don't seek to proselytise. As I have already mentioned our eldest girl is an Anglican priest, the middle girl is training for the ministry, not Anglican, the youngest girl is also a Christian. None of them are Biblical literalists, and they respect the views of their father and I, just as we respect theirs.

I struggle with the idea that in theory someone as evil as Hitler, for instance, could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whereas a thoroughly good atheist is destined for hell, there is no logic or fairness to that concept.

So that is where I am at, when I die I hope to cease to be, no heaven or no hell, for which of course there is no verifiable evidence to support the existence of an afterlife..

My experience of people who are atheists is also unfortunate, to say the least. I've known many of them that do and say very terrible things. Why do you say it's unfair that good atheists go to hell? Heaven is God's home. Would you invite a complete stranger into your home and let them live with you for the rest of your life? Atheists are strangers to God, so He won't invite them into his home either, no matter how good they are. So the question is, if they don't know the home-owner of Heaven, why should God let them in?