Glimpses of Heaven

[Veracity]

No, I appologize if you think I am being misleading or that I am saying the Scriptures literally uses the word false here.

It is an overall concept of truth that the entire Bible projects to me. God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the truth and the way. Regarding anything to with the Bible or the Gospel that St. Paul said he taught, If something is not of God then, for me it is false.

I think that too many of us can be and, some are infact, in bondage to these untruths. Now this will raise some eyebrows but, some examples of this bondage are the idea that your salvation is dependant on or predicated by being water baptised, daily asking for forgiveness of your sins (1 John 1:9), and speaking in tongues, as some examples.

Back to tongues; I hope my orignal thread did state that if God wants a person to speak in togues to reinforce His message today, that is entirely up to God because of who he is; who can argue that?

Paul said he spoke in tongues but, he also discouage it for the most part and; I think because of it being used falsley, it was not being used to edify God's message.
Speaking in tongues is a form of prophesying, if it is of God; and if it is not used to edify God, would it not be an untruth or a false teaching?

I have been in many churches where speaking in tongues takes place...sometimes it is just that person speaking whom it edifies...sometimes the preacher will spout out something in tongues and then continue to preach, like it never happened.

I have also been present when tongues were misused...by Pastors. That is where you have to use discernment. One can "feel" the difference, if...

Of course you have to believe in the fruit and gifts of the spirit to recieve or use them, just because you don't experience something does not make it false.

On daily asking for forgivness...what about the Lords Prayer? Is that not a outline of how we should pray?

“When you pray, say:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us day by day our daily bread.
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.”

We praise Him, we ask for His will to be done, we ask that he be our provider, and we acknowledge we are sinners, we forgive others, and protect us from falling into more sin.

??? Jesus gave us this example, was He wrong?

 

[Boanerges]

Rojo my friend I am praying that God remove the blinders from your eyes on this. Pray for me as well.
To me this is not only a biblical practice but a concrete reality in my life. To you it is something you have not experienced . Honestly it seems as though you spend a great amount of effort bucking what is a move of God but that is just my view. just my view but I can't see your interpretation of scripture moving anyone away from praying in the Spirit try though you might.
Personally I try to go out of my way not to profane my brother's offering to the Lord but that is just the heart I believe He has given me. I respect your right to disagree and you certainly can get to heaven without tongues or any other gift.
Many blessings,
your brother Larry.

 

[RJ]

I have been in many churches where speaking in tongues takes place...sometimes it is just that person speaking whom it edifies...sometimes the preacher will spout out something in tongues and then continue to preach, like it never happened.

I have also been present when tongues were misused...by Pastors. That is where you have to use discernment. One can "feel" the difference, if...

Of course you have to believe in the fruit and gifts of the spirit to recieve or use them, just because you don't experience something does not make it false.

On daily asking for forgivness...what about the Lords Prayer? Is that not a outline of how we should pray?

“When you pray, say:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us day by day our daily bread.
And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.”

We praise Him, we ask for His will to be done, we ask that he be our provider, and we acknowledge we are sinners, we forgive others, and protect us from falling into more sin.

??? Jesus gave us this example, was He wrong?

Hi Veracity,

I mean no harm or disrespect in my answers but seek the truth about our Lord and His grace to us:
Tongues
The Bible is clear, tongues was permissable then and now. No one can say that it is not permissable now. Who among us is vain enough to argue God's will! But, the Bible is also clear that the gift is to edify the unbeliever when spoken in their presence and, if the tongue is spoken in the presence of others that do not understand, and; you do not provide intrepretaion then it is useless and foolish if you do so!
The Lord's Prayer
This is of course is from God and a wonderful prayer; we pray it every Sunday. But, this is the truth, it is very permissable to pray but it is not a requirement. This is a classic example of Law vs. Grace.

Jesus was born an Arthidox Jew and lived His life under the Law and made himself perfectly subject to it. Before Jesus death and resurrection ushered in the New Covenant, He would only conduct His affairs with others according to the Law.
When Peter ask Jesus how to pray, His answer was subject to the Law. Hence, inside the prayer you must continue to ask for forgiveness....it was God's Law!
When Grace was ushered in, it replace the Law and our forgiveness was complete at the cross and God said "He would look at our sin no more".
Another example of forgiveness and the law vs. grace is this:
Before His death and resurrection Jesus said: " Forgive one another or God won't forgive you", His forgivess predicated on you doing something (Law). After Grace, it changed to " forgive one another as God has forgiven you ( Agape, unconditional, grace).
Look, St. Paul said " that all things are permissable but all things are not profitable. If you can pray the lord's Prayer and daily ask for forgiveness and not be in bondage to it O.K. . But, what if you miss a sin or miss a day, week or a month, what then?
Please, I am not saying for a person not to commit to the "Lord's Prayer", that is each person's decission and none of my business. But I do know this, when it comes to sin and forgivess, a lot of my bothers and sisters out their are not living in the fullness of God's Grace because of such things as the Lor'd Prayer and Ten Comandments. PM me if you would like to discuss this further.

 

[Greatness4life]

Please I do not intend to shift the focus of this thread, but I definitely have a question I will love to ask everyone and my question is this:

WHEN CHRIST WAS LEAVING THE EARTH - When He was departing from the disciple after His resurrection; WHAT DID HE GAVE US? WHO DID HE COMMITTED US TO?

I hope you understand now.

That is just my question. I will gladly received your answer and may be, that will enable me to share in this thread.

 

[RJ]

Please I do not intend to shift the focus of this thread, but I definitely have a question I will love to ask everyone and my question is this:

WHEN CHRIST WAS LIVING THE EARTH, WHAT DID HE GAVE US? WHO DID COMMITTED US TO?.
That is just my question. I will gladly received your answer and may be, that will enable me to share in this thread.

I apologize but perhaps I am lost in translation but, I don't understand your question?

 

[Greatness4life]

I apologize but perhaps I am lost in translation but, I don't understand your question?

Please Re-read the question again, may be you will understand now.

 

[jiggyfly]

I am a firm believer in the sufficiency of Scripture. I do not believe God is still giving new revelation. I believe that once Scripture was completed, all revelation ceased. Everything that is being revealed to us today is being done so by the Holy Spirit through existing Scripture. If this is the case, Deuteronomy clearly says the secret things belong to the Lord. If God did not reveal them to us through Scripture, He is not doing it today.

Here's a little advice for you Rojoloco.

Col 3:1 Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits at God's right hand in the place of honor and power.

 

[Mr.Lite]

There are many books, stories, and TV specials about people who claim they saw a glimpse of Heaven. Some even claim to have seen more than a glimpse. I am convinced of the following:

1) They are all fake
2) If any were in fact true, the person would be sinning by speaking of it

2 Corinthians 12 tells us of Paul being shown a glimpse of Heaven 14 years prior to ever even speaking of it for the first time. Even when he did speak of it, he told us that he heard things that no man is permitted to speak of. That alone tells us that every single book that claims to reveal Heaven (other than what is in Scripture) is breaking God's own law.

On top of that, most of the stories tend to lean on the side of people being revealed all sorts of things and being in a state of amazement while taking it all in. What does Scripture say?



Why is it that people claim they were wandering around or being shown this and that when even Isaiah only saw the Lord being glorifed. To add to it:



Isaiah was in the presence of God but he was not taking notes or being shown anything. He was quaking with fear. His entire vision is God being the center of all things, God being glorified, and Isaiah wanting to pee his pants so to speak.



Ezekiel had a very similar experience. It may be more detailed but take note (if you read the rest of chapter 1) that it all described God as being the centerpiece.

In no instance of Scripture does one have a tour guide to show them around Heaven. Why is it that so many people are attracted to this kind of nonsense being spit out in the media today?



I am a firm believer in the sufficiency of Scripture. I do not believe God is still giving new revelation. I believe that once Scripture was completed, all revelation ceased. Everything that is being revealed to us today is being done so by the Holy Spirit through existing Scripture. If this is the case, Deuteronomy clearly says the secret things belong to the Lord. If God did not reveal them to us through Scripture, He is not doing it today.

I heard Jesus, the Son of God speak to me directly. I was not shaking and fearful like Moses on the mountain.

When I heard The Lord, it was more tangible than getting slapped in the face or another man talking to me face to face

You see, God reveals himself in different ways to each person! Hence a relationship w/ the Almighty!

God spoke to me with power and peace at the same time.

Not only did I hear Jesus speak, the voice reassured me who it was that was speaking, "King of Kings"

Also if Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. What would stop him from allowing another man other than those mentioned in the Bible to have visions or be "caught in the spirit" and experience heaven?

For one, God does not have favorites, he treats everyone equally with due reward and punishment. He is a just God and sticks to his Word.

God blesses those who believe in him and don't see him.

Also, God allows himself to be seen from those with pure hearts!

Every miracle, prophet, and man who experienced the presence of the Lord, can happen to another today!

Acts 10:34-35 (NKJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Hebrews 13:8 (NKJV)
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

John 20:29 (NKJV)
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Matthew 5:8 (NKJV)
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.

Revelation 1:10-11 (NKJV)
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

 

[RJ]

Please I do not intend to shift the focus of this thread, but I definitely have a question I will love to ask everyone and my question is this:

WHEN CHRIST WAS LEAVING THE EARTH - When He was departing from the disciple after His resurrection; WHAT DID HE GAVE US? WHO DID HE COMMITTED US TO?

I hope you understand now.

That is just my question. I will gladly received your answer and may be, that will enable me to share in this thread.

Yes I understand now.
Yes, He left us with the 'Holy Spirit".
And other than this wonderful gift, what is your point that you are trying to make?

 

[Greatness4life]

Plant the same seed and see the same results.

Thanks for such an answer.

When Christ was Leaving, I'm glad He didn't left with us a BIBLE, He didn't give us ''THINGS'' but He gave/left us with A PERSON-Holy-Spirit.

My point are these:

Sow the same seed that was sown in 2000yrs ago, it will produce the same thing. Many are very conversant with their bible but Holy-Ghost has no way in them.
That's why you have all kinds of Doctrines, Denominations, Teachings and Beliefs, Sects, more importantly various interpretations and meanings. But the Person of Holy-Ghost who also is Christ has no place to be found in the organized religions.

Whether we believed in those gifts or not is not the problem but the Problem is: We have gathered too much of sand that is only occupying the Jacob's Well. Many knowledge and teachings but no life. We Christian of nowadays have developed in Knowledge of the BIBLE but we Lack a Person. We've so much entangled ourselves with ''things'' but not with A Person.

I will rather know the Person of Holy-Ghost than to know the Bible. I will rather make myself available for intimacy relationship with Him than to start a Bible studies class.
I will rather be taught by Him than to listen to what men that doesn't Know Him has to teach.

Here is my testimony:


People often think that I'm kind of person that devotes my life to reading and studying the Bible but later, some of them found out that I'm not used to studying the bible. Then the Biggest question was: HOW DID I GET TO KNOW THE TRUTH THAT I TAUGHT?

My answers has always been the Lord taught me, sometime when I am walking, many time when I'm sleeping in the vision and the one that occurred most of the time is when the Holy-Spirit indicate to me to read a Chapter of the Bible then He give me understanding. And the one that I'm experience now is that when i start posting or typing, understanding of Scriptures that I've not read before come expressly to me.
But you ask me: Who do I know? I don't know the bible nor any scholar or theology and doctrines but all I know is A Person-Holy-Spirit who is also Jesus Christ.

If Paul can boast of the revelation of Christ He had through the Grace of God, I think by the grace of God, I can also do the same because He that worketh mightily in them does work mightily in me and everyone that Believed in The Person of Holy-Spirit than doctrine and teachings of men.


What is the point? The point is this, you can say whatever you like concerning the Truth, you can confused people to believed in a lie but the only thing you cannot and you will not do is that you can never take away their experiences in Christ.

The prophecy, the Healing, speaking in tongues, revelation of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom, Things that are yet to come or manifest that the true Saints have received through prophecy, seen with their own eyes and many more can never be watered out.

The Apostles, The Prophets,The Evangelist, The Pastors (I mean True pastors not wolf in Sheep clothing) and The Teachers are more alive today. Some of them are not to be found in the organized "Church"/RELIGIONS. So, if you are looking for them I can tell you where they can be found: THEY ARE WITHOUT THE CAMPS WHERE CHRIST IS, to see them is not by Bible quotations, teachings, doctrines and History but is by a Person-Jesus Christ.
In that day saith the Lord, My people shall see eye to eye

But the anointing(Christ) which thou has received teacheth you all things and you need no man to teach you and whatsoever He teaches you, they are Truth, abide in it.


In conclusion, What I have seen, touched and felt declared I unto you, that the gifting of God( I mean the Ascension gifts which Christ gave to His body) including all the gifting of Holy-Spirit are still much alive, available and working in our own days. All we needs to do is to plant the same seed and see If it will not bring forth the same Seed.
But, how will you plant what you've not received? How will talk about how sweet an apple can be when you've not tasted one before? How will discuss things pertaining to the Kingdom of God when the King of that Kingdom has not taught you? Men may teach you many thing that are not eternal but what the Lord taught you by Himself no man, I repeat, no man can take it away from you.

The Psalmist said: Taste and see that the Lord is Good.

Let us meet our Lord outside the camp where He's preparing His Bride with all the resources He has given.
Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

 

[RJ]

Thanks for such an answer.

When Christ was Leaving, I'm glad He didn't left with us a BIBLE, He didn't give us ''THINGS'' but He gave/left us with A PERSON-Holy-Spirit.

My point are these:

Sow the same seed that was sown in 2000yrs ago, it will produce the same thing. Many are very conversant with their bible but Holy-Ghost has no way in them.
That's why you have all kinds of Doctrines, Denominations, Teachings and Beliefs, Sects, more importantly various interpretations and meanings. But the Person of Holy-Ghost who also is Christ has no place to be found in the organized religions.

Whether we believed in those gifts or not is not the problem but the Problem is: We have gathered too much of sand that is only occupying the Jacob's Well. Many knowledge and teachings but no life. We Christian of nowadays have developed in Knowledge of the BIBLE but we Lack a Person. We've so much entangled ourselves with ''things'' but not with A Person.

I will rather know the Person of Holy-Ghost than to know the Bible. I will rather make myself available for intimacy relationship with Him than to start a Bible studies class.
I will rather be taught by Him than to listen to what men that doesn't Know Him has to teach.

Here is my testimony:


People often think that I'm kind of person that devotes my life to reading and studying the Bible but later, some of them found out that I'm not used to studying the bible. Then the Biggest question was: HOW DID I GET TO KNOW THE TRUTH THAT I TAUGHT?

My answers has always been the Lord taught me, sometime when I am walking, many time when I'm sleeping in the vision and the one that occurred most of the time is when the Holy-Spirit indicate to me to read a Chapter of the Bible then He give me understanding. And the one that I'm experience now is that when i start posting or typing, understanding of Scriptures that I've not read before come expressly to me.
But you ask me: Who do I know? I don't know the bible nor any scholar or theology and doctrines but all I know is A Person-Holy-Spirit who is also Jesus Christ.

If Paul can boast of the revelation of Christ He had through the Grace of God, I think by the grace of God, I can also do the same because He that worketh mightily in them does work mightily in me and everyone that Believed in The Person of Holy-Spirit than doctrine and teachings of men.


What is the point? The point is this, you can say whatever you like concerning the Truth, you can confused people to believed in a lie but the only thing you cannot and you will not do is that you can never take away their experiences in Christ.

The prophecy, the Healing, speaking in tongues, revelation of Jesus Christ and His Kingdom, Things that are yet to come or manifest that the true Saints have received through prophecy, seen with their own eyes and many more can never be watered out.

The Apostles, The Prophets,The Evangelist, The Pastors (I mean True pastors not wolf in Sheep clothing) and The Teachers are more alive today. Some of them are not to be found in the organized "Church"/RELIGIONS. So, if you are looking for them I can tell you where they can be found: THEY ARE WITHOUT THE CAMPS WHERE CHRIST IS, to see them is not by Bible quotations, teachings, doctrines and History but is by a Person-Jesus Christ.

In that day saith the Lord, My people shall see eye to eye


But the anointing(Christ) which thou has received teacheth you all things and you need no man to teach you and whatsoever He teaches you, they are Truth, abide in it.


In conclusion, What I have seen, touched and felt declared I unto you, that the gifting of God( I mean the Ascension gifts which Christ gave to His body) including all the gifting of Holy-Spirit are still much alive, available and working in our own days. All we needs to do is to plant the same seed and see If it will not bring forth the same Seed.
But, how will you plant what you've not received? How will talk about how sweet an apple can be when you've not tasted one before? How will discuss things pertaining to the Kingdom of God when the King of that Kingdom has not taught you? Men may teach you many thing that are not eternal but what the Lord taught you by Himself no man, I repeat, no man can take it away from you.

The Psalmist said: Taste and see that the Lord is Good.

Let us meet our Lord outside the camp where He's preparing His Bride with all the resources He has given.
Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

Yes, I am not too much for religions, denominations and doctrines either. Man has got it wrong more than right! But, I know that God wants me to be with other Christians, so I go to church regularly.

And I completely agree that it is all about the Holy Spirit, Jesus , God in me that makes the difference.
But for me, the Bible is the written word of God and this word is Jesus Christ and I can't seperate the Bible from the Holy Spirit because, together, they both allow Jesus to live His life through me; I can't seperate one from the other!

 

[Greatness4life]

But for me, the Bible is the written word of God and this word is Jesus Christ and I can't seperate the Bible from the Holy Spirit because, together, they both 'allow'' Jesus to live His life through me; I can't seperate one from the other!

Yes I quiet agreed that the bible is the written word of God and the word is Jesus Christ, but You can definitely separate the two of them from one another. What do I mean by that?; It is possible to know the bible and not Know the God of the Bible. It is possible to learn about Christ and not learn of Christ. The pharisees of old knew the letter(Torah) but were unable to know who Christ was( The Life). In fact, they had all the prophecy about Christ written out for them, but when Christ shew up, they did not recognized or know Him.

Jesus said in John 5:39-40;

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

What was Christ saying to them? Was He asking or commanding them to search the Scriptures? No!! What He was simply saying was:
You are always searching the scriptures day and night studying them, Why? because you think in them you will have life, they are they which testify of me (those people who has led you, prophesied to you and all those faithful witnesses you were/are reading about in that scriptures and you are presently seeing: e.g John the baptist, they are the one that testify of Me not only in the past but in the present time pointing to you all that I AM LIFE) but you won't come to me so that you may have life (ME)

Do you know the problem of this kind of people? They are always looking for a ''thing'' not A Person and that's why they didn't come and they will not come to Christ so that they may Have Him and not ""things''.

John said: Whosoever hast the Son has life but many of us said whosoever hast the bible has life.

Hast this people not separated the Scriptures from Christ? You are left to answer that.

I'm very sure of of one thing: IF YOU KNOW THE AUTHOR OF THE BIBLE WHO IS JESUS CHRIST THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU WON'T KNOW THE BIBLE, BUT IT IS VERY POSSIBLE TO KNOW THE BIBLE AND NOT KNOW JESUS CHRIST ( I MEAN HAVING THE REVELATION OF CHRIST).

In conclusion, Let us focus our attentions on the Lord and stop looking and searching for things that are not lost. Then shall we know HIS DOCTRINES AND WAYS, but as long as we have our own doctrines, beliefs, teachings and all kinds of interpretations; we will never know of His own.

What the Lord did for me; He de-roped me from everything I've ever learned and that I thought I knew, He led me to burned many of the books I've written,brought me to a wilderness and start all over with me not with Bible studies but with Himself. There I knew that, what I lacked wasn't a thing, what I lacked was a Person. From that day on, I've learn and still learning not pick my bible for study or teach people concerning the truth except He bid me to do so because, anything I do outside of Him is of my flesh. (More of this will come when I start sharing my testimony in my Blog).

May the Lord help us.

Your Kingdom come Lord, Let Your will be done in us and on the earth.

 

[jiggyfly]

Yes I quiet agreed that the bible is the written word of God and the word is Jesus Christ, but You can definitely separate the two them from one another. What do I mean by that?; It is possible to know the bible and not Know the God of the Bible. It is possible to learn about Christ and not learn of Christ. The pharisees of old knew the letter(Torah) but were unable to know who Christ was( The Life). In fact, they had all the prophecy about Christ written out for them, but when Christ shew up, they did not recognized or know Him.

Amen, and I want to reiterate that it is possible to know Jesus without knowing the scriptures.

 

[rojoloco]

Here's a little advice for you Rojoloco.

Col 3:1 Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits at God's right hand in the place of honor and power.

The realities of Heaven are laid out in God's completed Scripture. This is what we can know for sure. However, people rarely use all of Scripture and instead use "experience" and half truths to form theology. The most believable lie is a half truth and we know Satan is the father of lies.

 

[rojoloco]

I heard Jesus, the Son of God speak to me directly. I was not shaking and fearful like Moses on the mountain.

When I heard The Lord, it was more tangible than getting slapped in the face or another man talking to me face to face

You see, God reveals himself in different ways to each person! Hence a relationship w/ the Almighty!

God spoke to me with power and peace at the same time.

Not only did I hear Jesus speak, the voice reassured me who it was that was speaking, "King of Kings"

Then you are different from every other person in Scripture that experienced it. They all had the same effect as each other. If you were to experience it, why would you be the exception?

Also if Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. What would stop him from allowing another man other than those mentioned in the Bible to have visions or be "caught in the spirit" and experience heaven?

Because we now have the completed Word of God. The only authentic experiences by people in the Bible were used for the purpose of writing Scripture. Are you saying Scripture should still being added to by those claiming to experience it today?

For one, God does not have favorites, he treats everyone equally with due reward and punishment. He is a just God and sticks to his Word.

God blesses those who believe in him and don't see him.

Also, God allows himself to be seen from those with pure hearts!

Every miracle, prophet, and man who experienced the presence of the Lord, can happen to another today!

Do you honestly think He allowed them that experience because He was playing favorites or even for some random reason? He did not give them that experience so they could write home about it. They were given the experience so that Scripture would be written. That was the end goal.

 

[jiggyfly]

Rojo, how about we back up and you answer a question that was posed to you earlier.

What scripture(s) do you support your belief that "speaking in tongues" and "prophecy" have ceased?

 

[Boanerges]

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Then you are different from every other person in Scripture that experienced it. They all had the same effect as each other. If you were to experience it, why would you be the exception?

Just your opinion and the opposite of my opinion and experience.

Because we now have the completed Word of God. The only authentic experiences by people in the Bible were used for the purpose of writing Scripture. Are you saying Scripture should still being added to by those claiming to experience it today?

Again, that is just your opinion. While I saw no evidence of scripture being added the Holy Spirit still interacts with us and Christ still speaks to His people. I understand that some denominations teach that Christ is now silent but this is the complete opposite of my biblical view and experience.

Do you honestly think He allowed them that experience because He was playing favorites or even for some random reason? He did not give them that experience so they could write home about it. They were given the experience so that Scripture would be written. That was the end goal.
And again just your opinion.

Those are your opinions and you are entitled to them.

Though I have not seen Christ with my eyes He plainly spoke out loud to me once. That is my testimony.
For those who have limited experience with these things to judge them by denominational standards is to try and put God in a religious box. The scripture I posted at the beginning of this post plainly indicates that God is still speaking to men through dreams and visions.



Joh 10:27

(ASV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(BBE) My sheep give ear to my voice, and I have knowledge of them, and they come after me:

(Bishops) My sheepe heare my voyce, and I knowe them, and they folowe me:

(CEV) My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me,

(Darby) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;

(DRB) My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me.

(EMTV) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

(ESV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

(Geneva) My sheepe heare my voyce, and I knowe them, and they follow me,

(GNB) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

(GNT) τὰ πρόβατα τὰ ἐμὰ τῆς φωνῆς μου ἀκούει, κἀγὼ γινώσκω αὐτά, καὶ ἀκολουθοῦσί μοι,

(GNT-BYZ+) ταG3588 T-NPN προβαταG4263 N-NPN ταG3588 T-NPN εμαG1699 S-1NPN τηςG3588 T-GSF φωνηςG5456 N-GSF μουG1473 P-1GS ακουειG191 V-PAI-3S καγωG2504 P-1NS-K γινωσκωG1097 V-PAI-1S αυταG846 P-APN καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθουσινG190 V-PAI-3P μοιG1473 P-1DS

(GNT-TR) τα προβατα τα εμα της φωνης μου ακουει καγω γινωσκω αυτα και ακολουθουσιν μοι

(GNT-TR+) ταG3588 T-NPN προβαταG4263 N-NPN ταG3588 T-NPN εμαG1699 S-1NPN τηςG3588 T-GSF φωνηςG5456 N-GSF μουG1473 P-1GS ακουειG191 V-PAI-3S καγωG2504 P-1NS-K γινωσκωG1097 V-PAI-1S αυταG846 P-APN καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθουσινG190 V-PAI-3P μοιG1473 P-1DS

(GNT-V) τα προβατα τα εμα της φωνης μου Aακουουσιν TSBακουει καγω γινωσκω αυτα και ακολουθουσιν μοι

(GNT-WH+) ταG3588 T-NPN προβαταG4263 N-NPN ταG3588 T-NPN εμαG1699 S-1NPN τηςG3588 T-GSF φωνηςG5456 N-GSF μουG1473 P-1GS ακουουσινG191 V-PAI-3P καγωG2504 P-1NS-K γινωσκωG1097 V-PAI-1S αυταG846 P-APN καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθουσινG190 V-PAI-3P μοιG1473 P-1DS

(GW) My sheep respond to my voice, and I know who they are. They follow me,

(HNT) צאני תשמענה את־קולי ואני ידעתין ואחרי תלכנה׃

(ISV) My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me.

(KJV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(KJV+) MyG1699 sheepG4263 hearG191 myG3450 voice,G5456 and IG2504 knowG1097 them,G846 andG2532 they followG190 me:G3427

(KJV-1611) My sheepe heare my voyce, and I know them, and they follow me.

(KJVA) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(LITV) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

(MKJV) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

(Murdock) My sheep hear my voice: and I know them: and they go after me.

(RV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(Vulgate) oves meae vocem meam audiunt et ego cognosco eas et sequuntur me

(Webster) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(WNT) My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

(YLT) according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,

 

[Mr.Lite]

Then you are different from every other person in Scripture that experienced it. They all had the same effect as each other. If you were to experience it, why would you be the exception?

When you hear Jesus speak to you, there is no mistake as to who is speaking to you!

And I'm talking about the Son of God speaking to you directly. The one whom is sitting at the right hand of his Father.

When the Lord Jesus Christ speaks to you, there is no mistake! You know that you know it is the Son of God

Obviously, if you don't know what I'm talking about, you have never experienced this before.

Because we now have the completed Word of God. The only authentic experiences by people in the Bible were used for the purpose of writing Scripture. Are you saying Scripture should still being added to by those claiming to experience it today?

Having a relationship with God is to experience him continually. Some people experience the presence of The Almighty to spread the good news, give testimony, or build their relationship with God.

Do you honestly think He allowed them that experience because He was playing favorites or even for some random reason? He did not give them that experience so they could write home about it. They were given the experience so that Scripture would be written. That was the end goal.

Reading the written Word of God is not the only way of reaching people. We are all living witnesses of the true living God as his child

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:




Those are your opinions and you are entitled to them.

Though I have not seen Christ with my eyes He plainly spoke out loud to me once. That is my testimony.
For those who have limited experience with these things to judge them by denominational standards is to try and put God in a religious box. The scripture I posted at the beginning of this post plainly indicates that God is still speaking to men through dreams and visions.



Joh 10:27

(ASV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(BBE) My sheep give ear to my voice, and I have knowledge of them, and they come after me:

(Bishops) My sheepe heare my voyce, and I knowe them, and they folowe me:

(CEV) My sheep know my voice, and I know them. They follow me,

(Darby) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;

(DRB) My sheep hear my voice. And I know them: and they follow me.

(EMTV) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

(ESV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

(Geneva) My sheepe heare my voyce, and I knowe them, and they follow me,

(GNB) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

(GNT) τὰ πρόβατα τὰ ἐμὰ τῆς φωνῆς μου ἀκούει, κἀγὼ γινώσκω αὐτά, καὶ ἀκολουθοῦσί μοι,

(GNT-BYZ+) ταG3588 T-NPN προβαταG4263 N-NPN ταG3588 T-NPN εμαG1699 S-1NPN τηςG3588 T-GSF φωνηςG5456 N-GSF μουG1473 P-1GS ακουειG191 V-PAI-3S καγωG2504 P-1NS-K γινωσκωG1097 V-PAI-1S αυταG846 P-APN καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθουσινG190 V-PAI-3P μοιG1473 P-1DS

(GNT-TR) τα προβατα τα εμα της φωνης μου ακουει καγω γινωσκω αυτα και ακολουθουσιν μοι

(GNT-TR+) ταG3588 T-NPN προβαταG4263 N-NPN ταG3588 T-NPN εμαG1699 S-1NPN τηςG3588 T-GSF φωνηςG5456 N-GSF μουG1473 P-1GS ακουειG191 V-PAI-3S καγωG2504 P-1NS-K γινωσκωG1097 V-PAI-1S αυταG846 P-APN καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθουσινG190 V-PAI-3P μοιG1473 P-1DS

(GNT-V) τα προβατα τα εμα της φωνης μου Aακουουσιν TSBακουει καγω γινωσκω αυτα και ακολουθουσιν μοι

(GNT-WH+) ταG3588 T-NPN προβαταG4263 N-NPN ταG3588 T-NPN εμαG1699 S-1NPN τηςG3588 T-GSF φωνηςG5456 N-GSF μουG1473 P-1GS ακουουσινG191 V-PAI-3P καγωG2504 P-1NS-K γινωσκωG1097 V-PAI-1S αυταG846 P-APN καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθουσινG190 V-PAI-3P μοιG1473 P-1DS

(GW) My sheep respond to my voice, and I know who they are. They follow me,

(HNT) צאני תשמענה את־קולי ואני ידעתין ואחרי תלכנה׃

(ISV) My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me.

(KJV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(KJV+) MyG1699 sheepG4263 hearG191 myG3450 voice,G5456 and IG2504 knowG1097 them,G846 andG2532 they followG190 me:G3427

(KJV-1611) My sheepe heare my voyce, and I know them, and they follow me.

(KJVA) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(LITV) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

(MKJV) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

(Murdock) My sheep hear my voice: and I know them: and they go after me.

(RV) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(Vulgate) oves meae vocem meam audiunt et ego cognosco eas et sequuntur me

(Webster) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

(WNT) My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

(YLT) according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,

AMEN! I am living testimony of this scripture!

 

[RJ]

Yes I quiet agreed that the bible is the written word of God and the word is Jesus Christ, but You can definitely separate the two of them from one another. What do I mean by that?; It is possible to know the bible and not Know the God of the Bible. It is possible to learn about Christ and not learn of Christ. The pharisees of old knew the letter(Torah) but were unable to know who Christ was( The Life). In fact, they had all the prophecy about Christ written out for them, but when Christ shew up, they did not recognized or know Him.

Jesus said in John 5:39-40;

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

What was Christ saying to them? Was He asking or commanding them to search the Scriptures? No!! What He was simply saying was:
You are always searching the scriptures day and night studying them, Why? because you think in them you will have life, they are they which testify of me (those people who has led you, prophesied to you and all those faithful witnesses you were/are reading about in that scriptures and you are presently seeing: e.g John the baptist, they are the one that testify of Me not only in the past but in the present time pointing to you all that I AM LIFE) but you won't come to me so that you may have life (ME)

Do you know the problem of this kind of people? They are always looking for a ''thing'' not A Person and that's why they didn't come and they will not come to Christ so that they may Have Him and not ""things''.

John said: Whosoever hast the Son has life but many of us said whosoever hast the bible has life.

Hast this people not separated the Scriptures from Christ? You are left to answer that.

I'm very sure of of one thing: IF YOU KNOW THE AUTHOR OF THE BIBLE WHO IS JESUS CHRIST THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU WON'T KNOW THE BIBLE, BUT IT IS VERY POSSIBLE TO KNOW THE BIBLE AND NOT KNOW JESUS CHRIST ( I MEAN HAVING THE REVELATION OF CHRIST).

In conclusion, Let us focus our attentions on the Lord and stop looking and searching for things that are not lost. Then shall we know HIS DOCTRINES AND WAYS, but as long as we have our own doctrines, beliefs, teachings and all kinds of interpretations; we will never know of His own.

What the Lord did for me; He de-roped me from everything I've ever learned and that I thought I knew, He led me to burned many of the books I've written,brought me to a wilderness and start all over with me not with Bible studies but with Himself. There I knew that, what I lacked wasn't a thing, what I lacked was a Person. From that day on, I've learn and still learning not pick my bible for study or teach people concerning the truth except He bid me to do so because, anything I do outside of Him is of my flesh. (More of this will come when I start sharing my testimony in my Blog).

May the Lord help us.

Your Kingdom come Lord, Let Your will be done in us and on the earth.

OK my friend, what ever you are saying, I am not completely sure!
But in closing , I will say this in all love and respect:

We can not truly know what is in each others heart, only God is capable of that! But I do know this with all my heart: As with today,
the non-believers, that you mention in Jesus day had not recieved Him and therefore could seperate the word of God from Jesus Christ, because in the end, there non-belief will cause both to be folly!

But for me, sinceI am a believer in Jesus Christ "Me and my house, we will worship the Lord". And until my perfection comes,that means, I have Christ living in me, I can not and will not seperate Jesus Christ and the "living word", let me say that again..."living word". They are both one and the same!

 

[evangeline]

Dear rojoloco,

I do not understand why some people seem to be coming down on you so hard. I thought this was a place where believers could discuss their beliefs in love.

In regards to ongoing prophecy, etc, I have different beliefs to you.

As has already been mentioned, Peter in Acts 2:17-18, quoting Joel said that:

"And it will be in the last days, God says,
'I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
And your sons and your daughters will prophesy.
Your youth will see visions; your seniors will dream dreams.
Even on both my male servants and female servants,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.!' "

Prophecy and other spiritual gifts was certainly widespread through the early church. While it may be sadly lacking in many western churches at this present time, in other places where the Spirit is very active - in China, parts of Latin Amercia and Africa, prophecy is still very much a part of church life.

There is NO verse in the New Testament that says that prophecy was just for the early church. The one verse that is sometimes used to say that prophecy will cease (1 Corinthians 13:8-9) is very inadequate in this argument, as all of of us are still just looking in a dim mirror waiting for perfection and complete knowledge which we will experience when we see Jesus face to face.

[The New Testament also clearly speaks two important future prophets in Revelation 11:3-11.]

In regards to your initial point on "glimpses of heaven"... I am dubious by those who have experienced a severe traumatic accident, or illness, and supposedly seen visions of heaven. My thought is that these episodes are hallucinations caused by the body as it pumps out copious amounts of natural* painkillers and other chemicals to alleviate the shock and trauma, and help the body to cope and heal. (*All part of God's design.) The testimony of a person who has had a near death experience, and suffered severe trauma, is not credible.


evangeline