Glimpses of Heaven

[evangeline]

Some verses on Prophecy

There is no doubt that the Corinthian church was badly behaved and generally immature, and yet Paul never tells them to stop using their spiritual gifts:

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.


Here's a command from Paul to the Thessalonian Church:

1 Thessalonians 5:19-20
Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt.


Not all prophecy in the New Testament was of a doctrinal nature:

Acts 11:27-28
During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

I, among many contemporary Christians, speak in tongues. As have countless others throughout church history.


evangeline

 

[StopPolloition]

I absolutely agree with you, Evangeline. It's rather telling that cessationists deny the gifts of prophecy, tongues and working of miracles yet take no issue with faith, wisdom, word of knowledge, etc. How terribly inconsistent. How truly indicative of a lack of faith to accept the workings that are for lack of a better word, 'natural' but deny those that are supernatural.

Throughout history, whenever the church became carnal or turned away from the teachings of the apostles and from biblical Christianity, it did seem that the working of the Spirit subsided. When, however, the Church embraced their first love, there were exceptional things to occur.

I would hazard that if the Church abandoned feel good Christianity, seeker sensitivity, trying to comingle with wickedness under the misleading notion of interfaith idolatry and the impure and ungodly practice of humanistic behavior such as guided meditation, etc, the moving of the Spirit would be indelible and only fools would deny it.

 

[rojoloco]

Dear rojoloco,

I do not understand why some people seem to be coming down on you so hard. I thought this was a place where believers could discuss their beliefs in love.

In regards to ongoing prophecy, etc, I have different beliefs to you.

As has already been mentioned, Peter in Acts 2:17-18, quoting Joel said that:

"And it will be in the last days, God says,
'I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
And your sons and your daughters will prophesy.
Your youth will see visions; your seniors will dream dreams.
Even on both my male servants and female servants,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.!' "

Prophecy and other spiritual gifts was certainly widespread through the early church. While it may be sadly lacking in many western churches at this present time, in other places where the Spirit is very active - in China, parts of Latin Amercia and Africa, prophecy is still very much a part of church life.

Unfortunately, that passage cannot be used to support anything in our current day. Peter is quoting Joel who is prophesying the 2nd Coming. It is safe to say that Pentecost did not fulfill all that was prophesied to be associated with the 2nd Coming. Pentecost was nothing more than a taste of what was to come. Actually, it is much like the dead who rose and went into the holy city after Christ's resurrection. Dead people rising was not meant to continue as normal. It was just a taste of the glorified body what would come. In the same way, Pentecost was just a taste of it. That sneak peak just showed a small portion of what was prophesied and has also ended.

There is NO verse in the New Testament that says that prophecy was just for the early church. The one verse that is sometimes used to say that prophecy will cease (1 Corinthians 13:8-9) is very inadequate in this argument, as all of of us are still just looking in a dim mirror waiting for perfection and complete knowledge which we will experience when we see Jesus face to face.

I do not believe it has ended either. However, I do not believe people with the gift of prophecy are revealing new knowledge from God either. This was not even the primary purpose of a prophet in the OT. I'll post a part of my recent sermon I gave. Maybe it will help explain what I am saying.

and to another prophecy,

Prophecy is one that has been cause for much confusion over the years as well. We think of a prophet as being a man who can tell the future. While this was often the case in the Old Testament, this is not the case today. Prophecy is not one of the temporary gifts. It is a permanent gift of God that He continues to give today. However, it is a very different office today.

The Greek word used for prophecy is propheteia. It simply means to speak forth or to proclaim truth of God. There were indeed many times in the Old Testament where God used prophets to speak newly revealed truth that had previously been concealed. This was divine revelation. However, this was not the primary purpose of the gift. The primary purpose of prophecy was to speak forth publicly of God in a profound manner. Sometimes it was new revelation while other times, they only reassured people of truth that was already revealed previously.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

We have God’s complete revelation. It ended with the revelation of John in the book of Revelation. If one claims to have a newly revealed Word of God, it must be recorded and added to Scripture just every other bit of prophetic words were. God’s revelation is not meant for just a specific area of believers. His Word is applicable to all believers everywhere and He made it available to us all in Scripture. No one is to add to Scripture. His divine revelation has ended and is complete within Scripture.

The gifts of knowledge and wisdom go hand in hand. Both of those gifts accompany today’s prophecy. Today, one with the gift of prophecy is able to know and share God’s revealed word through the gift of knowledge while also being able to apply it through the gift of wisdom.

For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.

The spirit of prophecy is to testify of Jesus. That testimony is found in Scripture. If one claims to be a prophet, he needs to teach from Scripture and proclaim the testimony of Jesus found within. He is not to add to Scripture by proclaiming a new word but is to speak forth the already written word through his special gift.

[The New Testament also clearly speaks two important future prophets in Revelation 11:3-11.]

Joel also says the end times will be filled with dreams and visions. During the 2nd Coming, those with the gift of prophecy will start having this again. For now, this is not the case. In our current day, they are fulfilling their primary purpose which is to proclaim boldly and publicly God's Word which testifies of Christ.

In regards to your initial point on "glimpses of heaven"... I am dubious by those who have experienced a severe traumatic accident, or illness, and supposedly seen visions of heaven. My thought is that these episodes are hallucinations caused by the body as it pumps out copious amounts of natural* painkillers and other chemicals to alleviate the shock and trauma, and help the body to cope and heal. (*All part of God's design.) The testimony of a person who has had a near death experience, and suffered severe trauma, is not credible.


evangeline

We have kind of gotten off topic quite a bit here. Thanks for steering it back. I just see no valid Biblical evidence to support the wild claims made by those claiming to have visited Heaven.

 

[JesusLoves]

Visions

So if I wanted to see angels or the spiritual realm is it possible for me to see? Can I ask the HS to see these things or is it just a gift from heaven?

for the ones of you that dont believe, i saw jesus when i was young with my own eyes, ive also saw angels, if god allows this this is for a reason, noone cant tell me what i saw. i was awake god bless..

 

[rojoloco]

So if I wanted to see angels or the spiritual realm is it possible for me to see? Can I ask the HS to see these things or is it just a gift from heaven?

This is a part of the problem. There is no consistency. Some will say God wants us all to see it, others say it is a special gift, and others say we need to learn how to see it. The Bible says we are not to desire to see these things because it is selfish. It tells us to edify the church and be satisfied with the gifts God has given us because one is no greater than the other. However, people tend to get caught up in the mysterious instead of the solid. We are given what we need but it isn't enough for a lot of people. They desire more. They have an experience and all of a sudden, they base all their doctrine off of it because they love God so there is no way Satan could have counterfeited it. IMHO, if one is weak enough to buy into something outside of Scripture, that is a prime candidate for Satan to attack.

 

[Boanerges]

Joel also says the end times will be filled with dreams and visions. During the 2nd Coming, those with the gift of prophecy will start having this again. For now, this is not the case.

There is no scriptural support for that view.

The Bible says we are not to desire to see these things because it is selfish

Same thing here, your preconcieved view has caused you to miss what was going on in Corinthians completely.



Perhaps one day all in the Church will be baptized in the Holy Spirit and such partisan arguments will go by the wayside.

 

[evangeline]

The Spiritual Realm

Hi Jesus Loves,

The Bible says to desire spiritual gifts and manifestations, especially the ability to prophecy (1 Cor 14:1). It cannot be selfish to want this if Scripture commands it, unless our motives are wrong.

The Holy Spirit gives his gifts as he determines (1 Cor 12:11). And he often chooses to use the most unlikely people - people just like you and me!

Just keep loving God and seeking him in prayer and in the Word.

I have heard it said that the words of scripture are the vocabulary of the Holy Spirit. There is a lot of truth in that. The Holy Spirit speaks to me mostly through the Bible. However he also speaks to me in other ways too.

rojoloco is right in that "there is no consistency". The spiritual realm does not become available by following a formula. I personally have never seen an angel, although I have had several euphoric experiences and exercised spiritual manifestations (gifts); but my son saw Jesus (or an angel) when he was young and he was instantly healed from severe stuttering.

I would say these instances of seeing angelic beings, or Jesus, are VERY rare. However it is NOT unBiblical to have these visits. They are are always for a purpose!

Each one of our walks with Jesus is unique. The important things is to keep following him in devotion, humility and obedience.


evangeline

 

[JesusLoves]

I would say these instances of seeing angelic beings, or Jesus, are VERY rare. However it is NOT unBiblical to have these visits. They are are always for a purpose!

Each one of our walks with Jesus is unique. The important things is to keep following him in devotion, humility and obedience.

I thank you evangeline for you input, I will stay in devotion with humility and obedience and wait on Jesus if he so desire to come and show me the spiritual realm that I so desire to see. I will wait on his time and not mine.

I was asking the Lord for this because I have read it in a book to ask the Lord or beg him on showing me the Spiritual realm. I am just curious how it feels to be in the realm of the spirits of the light.

God is so powerful and I just wanted to feel some of the gifts that he has to offer.

Thank you and God Bless.

 

[evangeline]

I was asking the Lord for this because I have read it in a book to ask the Lord or beg him on showing me the Spiritual realm. I am just curious how it feels to be in the realm of the spirits of the light.

Hi JesusLoves,

May I ask what book you were reading? There is something about the phrase "the realm of the spirits of light" that makes me a little uncomfortable.

I realise I am stating the obvious, but the best book to read is the Holy Bible. Paul knew what it was like to be see Jesus and Heaven, and he very much knew how to live an effective life that pleased God and testified to the Gospel, so perhaps read some of Paul's letters and let the Holy Spirit be your guide.

Paul's letters include: Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. (I would start with Ephesians or Colossians.)


evangeline

 

[Greatness4life]

I was asking the Lord for this because I have read it in a book to ask the Lord or beg him on showing me the Spiritual realm. I am just curious how it feels to be in the realm of the spirits of the light. God is so powerful and I just wanted to feel some of the gifts that he has to offer.

Hi JesusLoves, I just want you to look at your avatar and what did you see? You see the word FELLOWSHIP. Your spiritual experience start from there. What I can say to you are these:

People has little to offered you.
Some of them may not have experience what they thought they know and advising you on.
The spiritual gifts or experiences are not for your satisfaction or flesh desire.

So, I will advice you to create more time for fellowship with the Lord, and if possible close your ear from those who believed that spiritual experience are not for our days.
When the Lord feels you are ready for such and you truly desire for them, He will bring them your way.

I tell you and God is my witness whom I serve with my Spirit that, those experiences are real and still for our Days. I have experienced them time and time again by His gracious mercy and grace. Till now, they are still manifesting before my eyes.

A man that has tasted an apple is the one that can rightful described how sweet or bitter the apple was/is, but a man that has not, Has nothing to offered than to Criticized the apple and the one who ate it.

So, seek the Lord more and more on daily basis by Waiting and Relying on Him. Make your deepest desire known to Him and see if He will not grant your heart desire to you.
I tell you, all you need is just HIM.

 

[JesusLoves]

May I ask what book you were reading? There is something about the phrase "the realm of the spirits of light" that makes me a little uncomfortable

No, Its just something I said. I mean being in the light. Having the Holy Spirit present, nothing bad in what I said. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[JesusLoves]

When the Lord feels you are ready for such and you truly desire for them, He will bring them your way.

I thought I worked out that way. Thanks Greatness4life, I just want to make sure that I was not the only person who feels that way about the gifts God has to offer.