Give to the Poor and Good Works

[KingJ]

That's either a lie or an insult. This is an issue that's far far too important to be playing games.

Please, please think carefully about you have been saying here.

I urge you read the scriptures and to reflect on what it means to follow Jesus.

I don't see there is any value in continuing the conversation in this vein. I will not be persuaded to your point of view.

Peace

Please re-read Galations 2 and better grasp the first commandment. What a Christian is and why one is saved in the first place.

When we harp on good works we miss the boat by a mile. Cart before horse. I am not insulting with what I said about English skills. As you seem unable to grasp what ''non optional obligation'' infers.

Yes, of course we must love others. If you read my post properly you will see I am not opposed to that.

You say Gal 2 does not speak to good works. The context of the law is that what we do / obedience to say the Sabbath earns us points with God. Paul smashes that theory into the ground in Gal 2:21. Now we come and teach '''you MUST feed the poor''. Uhm Hell No. There is no ''MUST'' after we are saved.

 

[Br. Bear]

Gentlemen,

A cat has been thrown amongst the pigeons and now the pigeons are at each other .

Above all else, put on charity which is love, for each other and keep the peace of God that passeth all understanding.
Do not devour one another because of a very wrong OP and follow up trap.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

@povawiqe

Pull your head in or you days here are numbered.

You have your ideas but that does not give you liberty to patronize Members here at TalkJesus.

 

[povawiqe]

@povawiqe

Pull your head in or you days here are numbered.

You have your ideas but that does not give you liberty to patronize Members here at TalkJesus.

You people hate being told the truth, that is why you seek to ban me. If you banned me, you would actually be doing me a favor, rather than me wasting my time arguing with people such as yourself who refuse to know and understand the truth. This is the only Christian internet forum I chose to remain in, but I am very close to just giving up on this forum also and removing myself here as I did with other forums. I really have no interest in arguing with obstinate and stiff necked people, which is what you people are. It baffles me that you people would argue against the obligation of giving food to a man that is hungry. Not only do you people reject the Torah, but you also reject the teaching that we are commanded to do good. You are a fruitless generation, and a lawless one also, a despicable bunch of believers, soon to be destroyed if you do not change the error of your ways.

 

[Chad]

It is evidence and also obligation, that is why it is written, "whoever does not bear good fruit will be cut down". Good fruit is good works.

That's the result of the Holy Spirit doing good works in us, not us in ourselves. Read and study carefully.

 

[Chad]

You people hate being told the truth, that is why you seek to ban me. If you banned me, you would actually be doing me a favor, rather than me wasting my time arguing with people such as yourself who refuse to know and understand the truth. This is the only Christian internet forum I chose to remain in, but I am very close to just giving up on this forum also and removing myself here as I did with other forums. I really have no interest in arguing with obstinate and stiff necked people, which is what you people are. It baffles me that you people would argue against the obligation of giving food to a man that is hungry. Not only do you people reject the Torah, but you also reject the teaching that we are commanded to do good. You are a fruitless generation, and a lawless one also, a despicable bunch of believers, soon to be destroyed if you do not change the error of your ways.

So you "people", meaning 10,000 members here must listen to you and you know better? No one forces you to argue, so you're dead wrong on that.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

If someone offers you a rope to use as a lifeline, even if they made it themselves, try it, test it, first.
If it snaps DON'T use it!

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1Peter 1:7


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dovegiven]

Beware the tactics of the HRM, the modern false cult of Hebrew Roots Movement.

In this case, it was ignored that Jesus fed thousands of people in three accounts in Mark 6, 8 & Luke 9, apparently covering two mass feedings. He didn't teach His disciples to do that, but sent them to their boat, then sent the people away, and went alone to a mountain to pray.

Jesus showed by miracles it could be done. Twice He chided the disciples over faithlessness, reminding them not to fret over storms and not remembering to bring a lunch. So why didn't Jesus do that every day all His ministry days, eliminating hunger? What emphasis did Jesus put on feeding the poor and hungry bread and fishes? He did emphasize giving the gospel to the poor in spirit. He sent out disciples with no money, who returned with no news of mass benevolence to the poor. Their actual accomplishments are quite unknown save one, but we can read what kinds of works they were told to do.
Luke 10:1-24 (KJV)
1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.
14 But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.
15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Another emphasis in scripture has already been pointed out in this thread, that of Christians needing to work with their own hands, support their families, and by that be able to help others. It's a dual purpose of working, but no minimum of giving to the less fortunate was indicated. We find Paul collecting a free will offering for the persecuted saints at Jerusalem, and other acts out of the poverty of Christians. Scriptures encourage benevolence, but it isn't a requirement to be saved, else a poor Christian who has nothing to give be lost because of his own poverty. This world is full of Christians who are starving at the hands of Muslims and cruel tyrants like the one punishing Venesualans who is keeping aid from entering the nation. We ought to do what we can as that's plain reasonable and good. Neither Jesus nor the apostles made that a required work, but does reward people happy to give, including unbelievers who appreciate the ethical teachings of scriptures, experiencing blessings for it.

 

[B-A-C]

You say Gal 2 does not speak to good works. The context of the law is that what we do / obedience to say the Sabbath earns us points with God. Paul smashes that theory into the ground in Gal 2:21. Now we come and teach '''you MUST feed the poor''. Uhm Hell No. There is no ''MUST'' after we are saved.

This is why you are lost. First of all the Galatians is about circumcision. That's "the law". Not the commandments.

Gal 2:2; It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.
Gal 2:3; But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Gal 2:4; But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.
Gal 2:5; But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

Gal 2:11; But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12; For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

Gal 3:2; This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3; Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Gal 5:1; It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:2; Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3; And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:4; You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5; For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
Gal 5:6; For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Gal 5:12; I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

Gal 6:11; See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.
Gal 6:12; Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13; For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
Gal 6:14; But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15; For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

When Paul is talking about the law in Galatians, he is talking about circumcision, animal sacrifice and priests... not the commandments.

 

[Br. Bear]

Gentlemen,

A cat has been thrown amongst the pigeons and now the pigeons are at each other .

Above all else, put on charity which is love, for each other and keep the peace of God that passeth all understanding.
Do not devour one another because of a very wrong OP and follow up trap.


Bless you ....><>

bumping this for y'all.

When we get in a flap we can lose sight of who and what we are and Who purchased us for that purpose.

If we see some in that sort of flap we need to do our best to offer comfort and not correct each other too much for flapping.
Cats among pigeons can cause great disorientation.
A bit like putting a spider in a room full of girls.... they will even attack each other or push each other at it to keep themselves protected and in order to get out and away from the creepy thing!


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

First of all the Galatians is about circumcision. That's "the law". Not the commandments.

BAC you quote big passages but I don't think you read them. Your highlighting of circumcision does not make your case. Gal 2:12 says they were a ''circumcision group''. Gal 2 is speaking to Jewish law and customs. Please see the underlined.

Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. 14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? 15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Paul is making his argument of faith in Christ > obedience to law. How do you not get that from this passage?

Now, when someone says you ''must'' do x and y, it is a return to the law. Necessity = law. Paul is making the point here that the only necessity for justification is faith in Christ.

 

[Br. Bear]

You people hate being told the truth, that is why you seek to ban me. If you banned me, you would actually be doing me a favor, rather than me wasting my time arguing with people such as yourself who refuse to know and understand the truth. This is the only Christian internet forum I chose to remain in, but I am very close to just giving up on this forum also and removing myself here as I did with other forums. I really have no interest in arguing with obstinate and stiff necked people, which is what you people are. It baffles me that you people would argue against the obligation of giving food to a man that is hungry. Not only do you people reject the Torah, but you also reject the teaching that we are commanded to do good. You are a fruitless generation, and a lawless one also, a despicable bunch of believers, soon to be destroyed if you do not change the error of your ways.

@povawiqe

Letting you know that you have not been banned from the site but there is a very temporary reply ban on this thread in place due to your unpleasant post [quoted here] as it may be beneficial for you to consider your communication and remember that it proceeds out of your heart. You are free to post on all other threads throughout the site.

Writing about being obliged to do good ought to be more compelling to you as the starter of this thread to do good in your interaction with your fellow members here at TalkJesus.

If you are sincere about your love for Christ please consider hearing from Him and let Him persuade you of the lovingkindness of God.
If however you have shown your true colors in response here, perhaps you might be best suited finding yourself some other internet site where you can freely let rip at others if you feel a bit upset with them?
If you recognize you have a problem, know that member's here care and would be more than willing to do whatever they can here to assist you and we would all be very happy if that is the case to see you overcome and share in the same victory that is available to all in Christ Jesus the Lord. You could make use of the Counseling forums if that helps?
Most of us have had to deal with similar sorts of things ourselves and know that we don't wish any such problem upon you nor any other person on the planet.


Bless you ....><>