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Give to the Poor and Good Works

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In this bible study I go over the reasons why doing good works is not optional, it is an obligation, .
No it is not. Not for a Jew in Christ. Not for a gentile in Christ. Do you believe Jesus died in vein?

Gal 2:16 Yet we know that a person is put right with God only through faith in Jesus Christ, never by doing what the Law requires.

Gal 2:21. But if a person is put right with God through the Law, it means that Christ died for nothing.
 
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No it is not. Not for a Jew in Christ. Not for a gentile in Christ. Do you believe Jesus died in vein?

Gal 2:16 Yet we know that a person is put right with God only through faith in Jesus Christ, never by doing what the Law requires.

Gal 2:21. But if a person is put right with God through the Law, it means that Christ died for nothing.
The Messiah didn't die to take away your obligation to give to the poor. The Torah commands that we must give to the poor, and the Messiah also said, "every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down". Doing good works is an obligation, not optional. Only someone that does not want to do good works would say what you said.
 
Loyal
It is evidence and also obligation, that is why it is written, "whoever does not bear good fruit will be cut down". Good fruit is good works.
yet it does not earn us salvation, very important to understand that
 
Member
yet it does not earn us salvation, very important to understand that
Good works do not deliver us not because good works are not required, but because God chose who he will deliver before the foundation of the world, before anyone did any works to deserve reward or punishment, that it is why it is not by words that we are delivered, but by the predestination of God in choosing who he will deliver that we are delivered. And those he chooses to deliver, are required to yield good works, hence,

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
John 15:16

though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or evil, in order that God’s purpose of election might stand, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Romans 9:11-13

So then it is not of the one wanting, nor of the one running, but of the showing mercy of God.
Romans 9:16

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be set-apart and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1:4

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Romans 8:29-30

so that you may live a life worthy of the Master and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Colossians 1:10

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the Torah through the body of the Messiah, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Romans 7:4

who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
Titus 2:14

For we are God’s handiwork, created in the Messiah Yeshuah to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:10

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
Titus 3:1

They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
1 Timothy 6:18

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
Galatians 6:9

You see that a person is justified by works and not by belief alone.
James 2:24

If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that Yehovah your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to Yehovah against you, and you become guilty of sin.
Deuteronomy 15:7-9

If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.
James 4:17

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 7:19
 
Loyal
It is evidence and also obligation, that is why it is written, "whoever does not bear good fruit will be cut down". Good fruit is good works.
It is evidence and also obligation and also our purpose.

Ephesians 2:10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

God created us to do good works.
 
Active
The Messiah didn't die to take away your obligation to give to the poor. The Torah commands that we must give to the poor, and the Messiah also said, "every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down". Doing good works is an obligation, not optional. Only someone that does not want to do good works would say what you said.
Uhm yes He did. The obligation / necessity to obey the law even if its an added law as you have done with ''giving to the poor'' are '''gone''.

There is no '''obligation / not optional''. Stop teaching heresy.

Paul's rebuke of the Galatians in Gal 2 is for you.
 
Member
Uhm yes He did. The obligation / necessity to obey the law even if its an added law as you have done with ''giving to the poor'' are '''gone''.

There is no '''obligation / not optional''. Stop teaching heresy.

Paul's rebuke of the Galatians in Gal 2 is for you.
The only one teaching lies and heresies is you. The Messiah taught "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle will disappear from the Torah". You are a disgrace of a believer, not only by saying that the Torah is abolished, but also by saying that you are not obligated to give food to a man who is hungry and begging. You are among the worst type of people that have walked this earth, and that is why many of you will be thrown and burned alive in lava, because of how despicable and destructive your lies are, discarding the Law of God that defines everything that is sin, while also saying no one is obligated to give to the man in need.
 
Loyal
Gentlemen,

Let's avoid making judgements on each other.

@povawiqe has given a detailed account of his understanding.

@KingJ I think it would be helpful if you gave your understanding of the Biblical teaching on giving to the poor and doing good. What, if anything, do you think God asks of us?

Let's be humble. It's not a zero sum game. And just because the other guy might be wrong, it doesn't mean you are right.
 
Active
The only one teaching lies and heresies is you. The Messiah taught "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "until heaven and earth passes away, not one jot or one tittle will disappear from the Torah". You are a disgrace of a believer, not only by saying that the Torah is abolished, but also by saying that you are not obligated to give food to a man who is hungry and begging. You are among the worst type of people that have walked this earth, and that is why many of you will be thrown and burned alive in lava, because of how despicable and destructive your lies are, discarding the Law of God that defines everything that is sin, while also saying no one is obligated to give to the man in need.
Burnt alive in lava for not grasping I have a non optional obligation to feed a poor person. :laughing: :laughing:
 
Active
Gentlemen,

Let's avoid making judgements on each other.

@povawiqe has given a detailed account of his understanding.

@KingJ I think it would be helpful if you gave your understanding of the Biblical teaching on giving to the poor and doing good. What, if anything, do you think God asks of us?

Let's be humble. It's not a zero sum game. And just because the other guy might be wrong, it doesn't mean you are right.
Hekuran, Povawique said ''non optional obligation''. The scripture provided in post # 2 is all that is needed. There is ''NO'' obligation on any Christian to do good works. We are justified by faith in Jesus. Fullstop. Perhaps a discussion on what faith in Jesus is, is needed. Povawique does seem very confused on this in all his posts.
 
Loyal
Hekuran, Povawique said ''non optional obligation''. The scripture provided in post # 2 is all that is needed. There is ''NO'' obligation on any Christian to do good works. We are justified by faith in Jesus. Fullstop. Perhaps a discussion on what faith in Jesus is, is needed. Povawique does seem very confused on this in all his posts.
Use another thread to talk about justification if you wish. This one's about doing good. Do you really believe that God is ydsunconcerned abo8ut how we treat people in poverty?

The two epistles that have the strongest statements on justification by faith - Galatians and ephesians - also have commands to do good. Same with the letter to the Romans
 
Active
Use another thread to talk about justification if you wish. This one's about doing good. Do you really believe that God is ydsunconcerned abo8ut how we treat people in poverty?

The two epistles that have the strongest statements on justification by faith - Galatians and ephesians - also have commands to do good. Same with the letter to the Romans
You are raising an argument separate to Povawiques.

Povawique says 'non optional obligation'. You say ' God is concerned'.

With respect to your ''Is God concerned''. Well, loving others is the second commandment. We get to heaven and please God by fulfilling the first commandment. Evidenced by the thief next to Jesus. By scripture like Rev 2:10 where martyrs go straight to heaven.

Fulfilling the second commandment can be part and parcel of fulfilling the first. But fulfilling the first can NEVER be part and parcel of fulfilling the second.

So, no, God is not concerned. He doesn't need to be. If He knows I have fulfilled the first, He knows that I will respond to His leading. As opposed to ''my leading'' or obeying the OT law....and then assuming this all takes me to Him and results in my salvation. This thread is teaching upside Christianity. Paul's rebuke of the Galatians in Gal 2 is all that needs to be said in reply here.
 
Loyal
Aside from the question of salvation, the Bible - from beginning to end - is consistent in instructing God's people to care for the poor. There are plenty of examples in the article linked in the OP.

Dismissing such an important and consistent theme is extremely dangerous. Please reread and think again.

The controversy in Galatians was about circumcision and taking on Jewish customs, not about doing good.
 
Active
The controversy in Galatians was about circumcision and taking on Jewish customs, not about doing good.
It was about justification by the law, by good works. Which is what Povawique pushes when he says ''non optional'.

Please re-read my post # 2.
 
Loyal
I've reread your first post several times. The OP has nothing about justification by works. As far as I could discern, no one in the history of the Bible believed that kindness to the poor and similar earned their salvation.

Let me be very very clear. If anyone shows no concern for the poor and does not do good works, they are in disobedience to God. It's not a minor matter.



Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.
Ephesians 4
 
Active
I've reread your first post several times. The OP has nothing about justification by works. As far as I could discern, no one in the history of the Bible believed that kindness to the poor and similar earned their salvation.

Let me be very very clear. If anyone shows no concern for the poor and does not do good works, they are in disobedience to God. It's not a minor matter.

Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.
Ephesians 4
I am wondering if you and Povawique have English as your first language.
 
Loyal
That's either a lie or an insult. This is an issue that's far far too important to be playing games.

Please, please think carefully about you have been saying here.

I urge you read the scriptures and to reflect on what it means to follow Jesus.

I don't see there is any value in continuing the conversation in this vein. I will not be persuaded to your point of view.

Peace
 
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