Freedom

[Richard Aberdeen]

 

[Br. Bear]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, freedom is.
2Corinthian 3:17

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, freedom is.
2Corinthian 3:17

The Greek word eleutheria means freedom and liberation. In the First Century, the Greek eleutheria specifically referred to a former slave who has been freed. Using KJV English can confuse people as to the true Greek meaning. In 16th Century English, liberty means freedom.

As another example, in Luke 4, KJV says that Jesus came 'to set at liberty them that are bruised." The Greek means to free those who are oppressed. Using KJV English is unwise, because 16th Century English uses different words than modern English for the same thing and confuses the common people who Jesus dearly loves.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

It hasn't confused me yet.

I'm not advocating KJV Only but to be reasonable, your argument is repeated or regurgitated nonsense.

Anyone can get confused about anything. Sadly, many confused refuse to acknowledge it.
Perhaps pride or fear but admitting error is difficult for some.

The Lord is not one for confusion.

Please tell me/us...

Are we in bondage or enslaved before being set free in the Lord?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

Greetings,

It hasn't confused me yet.

I'm not advocating KJV Only but to be reasonable, your argument is repeated or regurgitated nonsense.

Anyone can get confused about anything. Sadly, many confused refuse to acknowledge it.
Perhaps pride or fear but admitting error is difficult for some.

The Lord is not one for confusion.

Please tell me/us...

Are we in bondage or enslaved before being set free in the Lord?


Bless you ....><>

So, you don't care about sinners who are confused by KJV English; that is, sinners who Jesus died for???

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Where did you get that from, please.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

Greetings,

Where did you get that from, please.


Bless you ....><>

The common people who Jesus dearly loves and died for speak modern English, not KJV English. Jesus taught sinners for free and it is disgraceful to speak about Jesus in archaic difficult to understand English. Why do so many find it necessary to speak in archaic English? Who are they trying to deceive?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

Thank you for your reply.

Last time I noticed, I speak my own modern English. Probably not as modern as it gets but something I did learn from reading the KJV was that I enquired what things meant, which, besides greater food from Bible, also helped me to learn much more about the English language and words usable.
I am not an avid reader, as in novels, and hardly read much growing up. I found reading difficult, especially if the books required to be read at school didn't interest me.

I understand where you're coming from but in honesty, there is so very much in the Bible that the modern reader wouldn't have a clue about. For example, manners and customs.
How people lived. Not to mention why people did what and how that was pleasing to God or not. It takes some dedicated reading and search out to even begin to get a handle on it all. So, no matter how modern an English version might be, it is going to draw lots of blanks in the modern mind. That translates also to 'difficult to understand'.

Bagging the KJV on shallow reasoning only throws setting concrete in the mix of things.

I could hardly read, but gobbled up the Bible when I became a Christian, without difficulty. Probably because it's a love letter for all ages and languages.

As you're probably aware, translators still translate to languages besides English. It can be very difficult to find words and terms in the language of the people they are doing it for because even a concept like love is so alien in their tongue.

Perhaps let the KJV be the KJV and seek a better language than you might presently use? We can all improve in that respect, so I'm not having a go at you.

I have spoken to so many people in my tiny life and found that even in one town, there are different languages and you need different words to relate the same things. The Spirit is best for tongues, not us. God knows what each person needs and can provide adequately, KJV or another version of English.

Fair suck of the sauce bottle, mate.

Chill.

She'll be apples.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Gothedral]

The common people who Jesus dearly loves and died for speak modern English, not KJV English. Jesus taught sinners for free and it is disgraceful to speak about Jesus in archaic difficult to understand English. Why do so many find it necessary to speak in archaic English? Who are they trying to deceive?

Unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, you get the English translation of the times before, during, or after King James did his thing. Are you fluent in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek languages and cultures? Trust GOD, then.

Websites like "Bible Hub" or "Bible Gateway" help one compare translations into something you can grasp. But always pray for understanding from GOD:

Currently I use the Literal Standard Version (LSV):
Saint James, chapter 1:
5 And if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask from God, who is giving to all generously, and not reproaching, and it will be given to him;
6 but let him ask in faith, doubting nothing, for he who is doubting has been like a wave of the sea, driven by wind and tossed;

I have no idea who hurt you, but please trust God will help you discern things.
We are here to help each other like Jesus wants us to.

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

Greetings again,

Thank you for your reply.

Last time I noticed, I speak my own modern English. Probably not as modern as it gets but something I did learn from reading the KJV was that I enquired what things meant, which, besides greater food from Bible, also helped me to learn much more about the English language and words usable.
I am not an avid reader, as in novels, and hardly read much growing up. I found reading difficult, especially if the books required to be read at school didn't interest me.

I understand where you're coming from but in honesty, there is so very much in the Bible that the modern reader wouldn't have a clue about. For example, manners and customs.
How people lived. Not to mention why people did what and how that was pleasing to God or not. It takes some dedicated reading and search out to even begin to get a handle on it all. So, no matter how modern an English version might be, it is going to draw lots of blanks in the modern mind. That translates also to 'difficult to understand'.

Bagging the KJV on shallow reasoning only throws setting concrete in the mix of things.

I could hardly read, but gobbled up the Bible when I became a Christian, without difficulty. Probably because it's a love letter for all ages and languages.

As you're probably aware, translators still translate to languages besides English. It can be very difficult to find words and terms in the language of the people they are doing it for because even a concept like love is so alien in their tongue.

Perhaps let the KJV be the KJV and seek a better language than you might presently use? We can all improve in that respect, so I'm not having a go at you.

I have spoken to so many people in my tiny life and found that even in one town, there are different languages and you need different words to relate the same things. The Spirit is best for tongues, not us. God knows what each person needs and can provide adequately, KJV or another version of English.

Fair suck of the sauce bottle, mate.

Chill.

She'll be apples.


Bless you ....><>

The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, the language of the common people. There is no excuse for followers of Jesus to not likewise, speak and write in modern English, the language of the common people today. Even in foreign nations like in Europe and China, many people there understand and speak modern English. I do not believe that God has any desire whatsoever to make it difficult for the common average people to understand the plain text of the Bible.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

As another example, in Luke 4, KJV says that Jesus came 'to set at liberty them that are bruised." The Greek means to free those who are oppressed. Using KJV English is unwise, because 16th Century English uses different words than modern English for the same thing and confuses the common people who Jesus dearly loves.

Bruised:
Definition...

G2352​

Original: θραύω

Transliteration: thrauō

Phonetic: throw'-o

Thayer Definition:

1. to break, break in pieces, shatter, smite through

Origin: a root word

TDNT entry: None

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: A primary verb; to crush : - bruise.
-------

It would appear to be taking liberty to render it as "oppressed".

_______

Perhaps get off your pedestal for in my short lifetime there have been many new versions in modern English published.

_______

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Bless you ....><>

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

Greetings,



Bruised:
Definition...

G2352​

Original: θραύω

Transliteration: thrauō

Phonetic: throw'-o

Thayer Definition:

1. to break, break in pieces, shatter, smite through

Origin: a root word

TDNT entry: None

Part(s) of speech: Verb

Strong's Definition: A primary verb; to crush : - bruise.
-------

It would appear to be taking liberty to render it as "oppressed".

_______

Perhaps get off your pedestal for in my short lifetime there have been many new versions in modern English published.

_______

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Bless you ....><>

You might want to read this carefully. . .

Hebrew, Greek and English have many words with multiple meanings, not just one meaning. The correct method used to determine the correct meaning is the context in which it is being presented. When the meaning is ambiguous and unclear, then it is simply translator opinion. An example in English is the word "off", which has at least five distinct meanings. There are eight different Greek words for different kinds of "love", while in English we are stuck with just one word for every kind of love.

This is what Luke 4:18 says in Greek: "The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because of which, he anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor; he has sent me to heal the broken in heart; to proclaim release to the captives (slaves, see note) and sight to the blind; to send forth the oppressed in release (see note 2 below);

This verse is translated differently than the literal Greek in almost every translation and, translations differ considerably.

Sin is what causes human slavery and oppression and people to be broken in heart. When Jesus saves, he cleans out the root cause of whatever ails the human race. Jesus is about both spiritual and physical transformation of individual people and in turn, human society at large, what the Old Testament refers to as the human community; Adam means "mankind" or "people".

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus addressees both sin and the physical results of sin. This is what it means to be saved, to be changed into a person who loves their neighbor, rather than someone who enslaves, oppresses or otherwise harms their neighbor. We know this because Jesus himself says so, "for this is the law and the prophets", the goal, aim and purpose of the law and prophets, the purpose of salvation, is that we treat other people as we wish to be treated.

Note on "captives": Historically, the losers in wars were taken as prisoners and were captives who were enslaved. Thus, Jesus may have meant, "to proclaim release to the slaves", which your KJV translates as "captives". In the OT, Jospeh was taken as a slave and the Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt. They were again enslaved in Babylon. And were often treated worse than slaves in Christian Europe, just as today immigrants in so-called 'christian' America are often treated worse than many slaves of history.

The reason Jesus may have meant slaves also is because he says in John that the Pharisees were slaves to their sins. This may well be what Jesus is referring to above in Luke, although it is not entirely clear.

Note 2: Greek "tethrausmenous" (from Bible Hub): refers to those who are oppressed, downtrodden, or broken—people whose lives have been shattered by sin, sickness, demonic bondage, social marginalization, or political subjugation Bible Hub. The imagery connects to Old Testament concepts of liberation, such as the Jubilee year, where debtors were freed and slaves released.

Jesus says kingdom of heavens plural. Your KJV says heaven singular. Hebrew says God created "an expansion". Your KJV says firmament. We know today the universe is expanding. This was unknown when KJV was translated. The Bible also says God "stretches out" the heavens again referring to expansion. The concept of multiple heavens is in the Bible, but was not in the science when KJV was written. These are examples of why using KJV is not the best idea. Solomon in kings refers to "the heaven of heavens", which today many scientists believe that there are many universes.

In John 3:16, KJV says for God so loved the world. The Greek in context refers to people, as in for God so loved "the people" or "humanity". KJV says "love not the world". In context, it says "do not love the world system, such as capitalism, stock trading, investment schemes, whatever is focused on the pursuit of wealth.

The root "kosmos" in Greek has three different meanings. One is world or earth. Two is humanity or the people. Three is world system, referring to the world system of evil, based on the love of wealth. KJV translates all three as "world", which is greatly misleading.

Greek often uses words with multiple meanings and sentence structure in Koine Greek that no longer is the same in modern English. For example, Greek says "the God" and "the Jesus". In English, we say "God" and "Jesus". Greek often says both "said" and "says" in the same sentence when it is about things said in the past. In English, we write "said" if it was stated in the past, not "says".

For example, Greek is often literally written like this: "went into Jesus, the temple. In English, we say "Jesus went into the temple." Greek is often spoken backwards to how English is spoken but not always. We speak first subject, then predicate. Koine Greek often but not always, has first predicate and then subject and often the words of a sentence are in a different jumbled order than how spoken in English, such as the example above.

In Genesis 1, the Hebrew "yom", translated as "day" in KJV, has several different meanings, including day, an indefinite period of time and time itself. It is translated by KJV in all of these meanings elsewhere in the Bible. Elsewhere, for example, "yom" refers to a period of time well over one thousand years and "evening and morning" also elsewhere refers to a long period of time. In Genesis 2, "yom" is translated as "in the day God created the heavens and the earth", meaning when or at the time God created the heavens and earth.

Genesis 2:4 says the following: "In the generations that God created the heavens and the earth." The Hebrew word means "generations". Since when do "generations" equal seven literal days???

Hope that helps.

 

[Bill]

The common people who Jesus dearly loves and died for speak modern English, not KJV English. Jesus taught sinners for free and it is disgraceful to speak about Jesus in archaic difficult to understand English. Why do so many find it necessary to speak in archaic English? Who are they trying to deceive?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

English is spoken in many countries but it is not the worldwide language. And the Bible is written in many languages not just English. There are many who are brought up using the King James version, or the KJV. I personally don't read it, but I don't have a problem with it either. It used to be more common and back in the days when it was common it was the biggest thing in the world.

In the Scripture it reads, that we need to hear the word of God. It doesn't say which Bible or that it needs to be done in English. I find that often times, people will actually take more time to listen to something that's a little bit different then they would if it was common speech.