Flat earth : is there scriptural evidence for it?

[Listening]

Sounds funny i know, but having looked into what people are saying concerning this topic, i have to agree the the genesis account is contradicted by mainstream science. And to me this is the most exciting revolution in peoples interests, as it shows people are taking notice of what the bible says about the earth and the heavens.
This video shows scripture versus science on the subject of creation.

 

[Dovegiven]

That video is full of ignorance. Just denying the distance of moon from earth is enough to discard the whole thing. NASA isn't lying. The distance was calculated long before NASA existed, beginning around 300 BC, Greek astronomers first coming very close to the size of earth, it's true shape, and distances of moon, etc., from earth.

Our astronauts placed an instrument on the moon that sends a signal to an earth antenna, measuring how long it takes for the light to return. Knowing the speed of the signal, the distance is known accurately and precisely enough to learn the moon is growing in distance from earth by over an inch a year.

The Bible is commonly misinterpreted to assume a flat earth. It's true religious people suppressed Galileo's discoveries, while many of our modern physics facts were known nearly two millennia before his time. Reading the Bible 's mentions about this topic in light of modern science should convince anyone able to comprehend literature that it wasn't the Bible that promoted bogus science.

The existence of tides is explained by proper science, linking the gravitational effect of moon upon earth, and earth upon the moon, while the earth and moon both are revolving, each on their respective axis. That proves just as a side note the earth is not a circle in space, not a perfectly shaped sphere either, but is egg shaped "oblate spheroid". Our satellite GPS system had to be tweaked to take that into account for both accurate positioning and altitude data.

None of that video has science data that could be measured.

That scene 3/4 through of the woman on the man should be a tip-off the author is not being led by the Holy Spirit.

I think that after checking out their website many here would agree the video doesn't belong at TJ or any other Christian site. Just my opinion. Actually, since I visited there my antivirus has popped up twice working on a trojan, the first this year for me. I only have 4 minutes invested in this reply, thankfully.

 

[Waggles]

i have to agree the the genesis account is contradicted by mainstream science.

Nonsense. Genesis is very accurate in the sequence of events (geologically and biologically) that came into being.
In respect to our planet Earth, the Bible has always described the planet as a circle or sphere along with the most amazing statement of fact that the Earth hangs on nothing (that is floats in space). -Job has many declarations of science as God confronts this man's pretence at wisdom.
No - the Bible is full of astounding scientific accuracies written millennia/centuries before they were discovered and published later in the 17th century onwards.... health and hygiene; air pressure; oceanic sea currents; the individual crystal patterns of snow flakes; ten dimensions of the universe and physics; the list goes on and on.
Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Proverbs 8:
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Do not be deceived by unbelieving fools. It only leads to a very bad consequence of judgment.

 

[Waggles]

It's true religious people suppressed Galileo's discoveries,

Actually it was the power and authority of the Pope and Rome [the Anti-Christ] that threatened Galileo with torture and death, and forced him to renounce his scientific observations of the solar system.
Political and worldly power has always been the corruption of Papal rule. They had just lost northern Europe to the Protestant Reformation and Rome did not need any more challenges.

 

[pajaro]

Thanks for noting the rather unusual but common notions people have about Genesis, often passed down by earlier "scholars" from some time ago. These notions are not really that bizarre if you consider that many people try hard to interpret Genesis as if it is written about physical phenomenon or the physical universe. However, the Bible itself says that the Bible is written in parable form, so that words in the surface text have spiritual meaning (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4). The firmament is actually called heaven in Genesis itself, and is not called outer space or sky, and we know from elsewhere in the Bible that heaven is God's throne, not outer space or the upper stratosphere or some such. Further, the throne is a term for those who have God reigning in their hearts (God is on the throne spiritually, so to speak).

 

[Curtis]

God created the physical universe with the expressed purpose for man to "study" it. For in it the invisible spiritual world can be seen by looking at the things made at the time of creation, even God's eternal power and God head. True science, and scripture should never "contradict" each other, and if they do either our "science" is wrong or our "believing" is wrong.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Brother-Paul]

The video is so misleading.

It has many good points but also so many wrong assumptions/interpretations.

These items are dangerous as they are perfect for the devil to use to deceive many, not just the babes but even the elite...

A new Christian reading the above could easily accept what is shown, the devil always makes things sound better than they are...

Genesis 2:16-17 (KJV)
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:4-5 (KJV)
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

You may have taken a bite by watching the video, do not swallow the lie.

The same is with various cults, who start with the KJV Bible, lure the person into their fold, then preach from their own doctored Bible (Jehovah's Witness for one). The video includes KJV scripture as its foundation, many things it says are correct, lets not forget, the devil knows scripture he even tried to tempt our Lord! Then the argument falls away as its interpretations are all wrong and lack substance.

May we in all things...
Proverbs 3:5-6 (KJV)
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[Dovegiven]

Thanks for noting the rather unusual but common notions people have about Genesis, often passed down by earlier "scholars" from some time ago. These notions are not really that bizarre if you consider that many people try hard to interpret Genesis as if it is written about physical phenomenon or the physical universe. However, the Bible itself says that the Bible is written in parable form, so that words in the surface text have spiritual meaning (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4). The firmament is actually called heaven in Genesis itself, and is not called outer space or sky, and we know from elsewhere in the Bible that heaven is God's throne, not outer space or the upper stratosphere or some such. Further, the throne is a term for those who have God reigning in their hearts (God is on the throne spiritually, so to speak).

Believing the Bible is written in parable form is a big reason why some are deluded to believe websites like that one. A huge portion of the Bible consists of historical records like kings, prophets, the places and things Jesus did, Paul's journeys,
The Bible makes it clear whenever something is actually presented as a parable, metaphor, poetry/song, prayer, acts of war, some false teachings of deceived men (as in Job), etc. It contains all expressions of literature, and reveals science secrets that modern men have spent great sums proving, some facts of science that were explained well enough millennia past to not require expensive research in our century. No scientist has ever used proper science proving the Bible is in error about any science fact. It's those who change the scientific method to non longer resemble true science that abuse people with false statements such as teaching evolution, and twisting scriptures.

A careful reading of the Bible should dispel all confusion about it. Genesis describes separate heavens that arose from the original heaven when the earth had no form to it.
Genesis 2:1 (KJV) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Read on to see how the heaven became a "firmament, which resulted in an earth with form and all the water on it, dry land on it, and the dry sky (atmosphere, lowest first heaven), and further divided into the second heaven of the sun, moon, planets, and stars that are truly far flung from earth, and of course that third Heaven, the abode of God to be brought into stationary orbit here, then settled down among men in the new earth. Paul was there briefly: 2 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

I agree that people who are ignorant of science would likely believe the OP, but God has gifted people to look at nature, see the facts, and measure the physical facts, as well as commune spiritually.

 

[Bendito]

Sounds funny i know, but having looked into what people are saying concerning this topic, i have to agree the the genesis account is contradicted by mainstream science. And to me this is the most exciting revolution in peoples interests, as it shows people are taking notice of what the bible says about the earth and the heavens.
This video shows scripture versus science on the subject of creation.

The Earth is flat.....Proof? I once traveled west until one day I fell off the edge of the Earth. I landed in Canada! OH help!

 

[Dovegiven]

The Earth is flat.....Proof? I once traveled west until one day I fell off the edge of the Earth. I landed in Canada! OH help!

For way to long fearful people have spent too much effort trying to make God say things are the way fearful people want things to be, so they insist on foolish interpretations of the Bible. A flat earth would be easily measured, discovered in its entirety, men finding a never-ending cliff in every direction dropping off into nothingness whichever way one journeyed too far. Their solution? Forbid going certain places. Put dire warnings on the edges of maps. Create religious monsters that await the arrival of mere mortal men.

We can't quote scriptures on that issue since none describe a flat earth. If it's the Hebraic references to "corners of the earth", then instead of a circle the ignorant ought to be pointing to a flat square plane. Beards, having "corners" according to the Jews should be laid out similarly. But of course they are not.

 

[Bendito]

For way to long fearful people have spent too much effort trying to make God say things are the way fearful people want things to be, so they insist on foolish interpretations of the Bible. A flat earth would be easily measured, discovered in its entirety, men finding a never-ending cliff in every direction dropping off into nothingness whichever way one journeyed too far. Their solution? Forbid going certain places. Put dire warnings on the edges of maps. Create religious monsters that await the arrival of mere mortal men.

We can't quote scriptures on that issue since none describe a flat earth. If it's the Hebraic references to "corners of the earth", then instead of a circle the ignorant ought to be pointing to a flat square plane. Beards, having "corners" according to the Jews should be laid out similarly. But of course they are not.

LOL Too true. There are even photographs of a round earth taken from satellites.

 

[Sebastian]

Read this and thought of this thread: revelation 7:1 "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree." Could just be the 4,,, eeh,,, whatever they are called (north, west, etc).

 

[Bendito]

Read this and thought of this thread: revelation 7:1 "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree." Could just be the 4,,, eeh,,, whatever they are called (north, west, etc).

Or you can read this......where are the corners?
Isaiah 40:22 (CJB)
22 He who sits above the circle of the earth
for whom its inhabitants appear like grasshoppers
stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
spreads them out like a tent to live in.

I believe the corners refer to the four highest places on Earth...

Did you know that the bible also talks of the Gates of Hell? Actual gates? Or not?

 

[Sebastian]

I'm not here for a theological discussion, not even to advocate this or the other, I just wanted to share the verse to benefit the thread's purpose.

Thank you.

 

[Dovegiven]

Read this and thought of this thread: revelation 7:1 "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree." Could just be the 4,,, eeh,,, whatever they are called (north, west, etc).

That's one of the major scriptures used by Flat Earthers. Compare it to Revelation 20:8 (KJV) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Both corner and quarter are of the same Gr. γωνία Unless I've long forgottten my geometry, all straight line shapes with closed corner angles can be divided into 4 area quarters. Most maps fit that description, usually with four corners, describing an area that is known or suspected

Maybe that was more factual than appears. We have two hemispheres, north and south, and essentially East and west sides,the two also cleanly divided into east and West meeting at Greenwich, England. To see an interesting idea about that in relation to this topic, look up Meridian + Greenwich. There's more to it all than chance.

 

[Hekuran]

Friends, what's the issue here?

If Paul had written, All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness and for settling questions about science and geography, then we'd have a problem. It doesn't, and we don't.

I sometimes talk about the four corners of the earth as a figure of speech.

That the biblical writers operated with a different conception of the cosmology of the universe should not be a surprise, or embarrasing or controversial.

 

[Dovegiven]

Friends, what's the issue here?

If Paul had written, All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness and for settling questions about science and geography, then we'd have a problem. It doesn't, and we don't.

I sometimes talk about the four corners of the earth as a figure of speech.

That the biblical writers operated with a different conception of the cosmology of the universe should not be a surprise, or embarrasing or controversial.

You are right.....as between believers of the Word. However, this topic is one that unbelievers bring up frequently on most Christian forums, attempting to point out supposed errors in the Bible. Left untended, babes on Christ often become discouraged, their minds filled with more doubt than truth day after day while we watch from afar. We ought to respond with reason and scripture truth. Paul set an example as to how to deal with such people, reasoning with them to get past worship of mind knowledge, to get to the spiritual.
Acts 17:19-24 (KJV)
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;.........................

Paul found one of their own figures that made him an open door they had no defense against. In fact, some of those men followed Paul.

 

[Brother-Paul]

It is true what you both say, it is often the babe's in Christ that ask these questions, often fuelled by comments from others who have not accepted Christ as their Saviour, or are babe's and learning also.

It is true to say Christian (converted Jews) 2000 years ago did not know what we know today of the solar system but does that really matter, No.

Although we know today that the world is round, I cannot personally think of a better way to convey a message to others, covering all areas of the earth, but as to say, 'to the four corners of the earth'. The statement itself portrays the message with simplicity and clarity, in just a few words, it gives us a clear picture in our minds, that the message is talking about 'every part of the world we live in'.

Praise the Lord for His Wisdom.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Read this and thought of this thread: revelation 7:1 "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree." Could just be the 4,,, eeh,,, whatever they are called (north, west, etc).

Bless you, but you cannot compare or use North, South, East or West, as they define direction, longitudinally or laterally, the farthest distance left or right, top to bottom is not the farthest distance, the farthest distance has to be the 'four corners'.

'Four corners of the earth' point to the farthest perimeters, the statement makes it is clear in our minds immediately what the writer is saying. The Jews/early Christians were used to parchments and will have seen scrolls rolled out, in the same way we see paper today. So I see this as a figurative statement, using something we already know clearly, to make clear in a few words what the writer wants us to picture in their minds.

The Jews were scattered to the four corners of the Earth. The Jews will Return from the four corners of the earth.
And they did, and they have, and they are doing. 14 May 1948 Declaration of Israel, I think, this is probably the most important happenings of all Prophesies of the End Times, it confirms we are definitely in it. O Come Lord Jesus.

 

[Hekuran]

We ought to respond with reason and scripture truth.

To a point we should.

I'm by no means anti-reason and I firmly hold to the truth of scripture, but on this particular issue, my response is "so what?" or "who cares?" On topics like this I've only ever seen arguments that go around in a circle and end with everybody more or less where they started. It seems to me that in the entire Bible there is zero interest in the shape or size of the universe.

If we are to defend the Bible, lets defend it on ground that the Bible actually has an interest it. Such as - what is a human? Is history going somewhere or does it just repeat itself? What can we say about frustrated hopes? How does God answer prayer? what can we say about justice? For those of us in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East we are dealing with daily news about conflict, refugees and hospitality. Does the Bible have anything to say about these things? You bet it does!

In short, I would not expend any energy on a Bible and flat earth debate because I cannot see any value in winning it, or any harm in losing it. I would be happy to talk until dawn about what the Bible says about the value of human life.