Ex Christian?

[SpiritLedEd]

Ex-Christian?

1 John 2:19 declares, They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”

Two Scriptures that need to be considered in this discussion are Mark 4 :16-18 and 1 Sam 16: 7-8. Many people "sign up" at an altar call and they mean to be real Christians, but at heart they are self-centered, shallow people. They suit up and show up and look and sound like they're the real thing. But they are not truly sincere. Those of the name it and claim it crowd are often good examples of this. When what they've named and claimed doesn't come to them in what they think is a reasonable time, they declare that this Christianity thing doesn't work and they walk away never to return.

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first". (Heb 3:14 NIV)

SLE

 

[letusgo27]

Christ or not

the greatest gift from our creator is the gift of choice which is never taken away from us even when we choose Jesus we can again choose to leave. no one can take you from the protection of God except you. we must die to self daily e.g. we must choose CHrist and a life of service every day its not a matter of choosing Jesus once then doing whatever you want from there on out. we must choose Christ everyday evey minute and so on. but we are able to choose CHrist and then later in life for whatever reason choose to leave, but you would have to be either stupid or seriously deceived to do that.

BLessings all

 

[Leanne]

There is a clear distinction between becoming backslidden and being an apostate. The former is that if backslidden you grieve the Holy Spirit and therefore are not abiding in Christ. You have not lost your salvation but the joy of it.

The latter is denying Christ if you believe you accepted Him at first. I have known very few examples of this as this would be apostate. The only examples I have known have been those who were formerly Jews accepting Christ then going back to their former Jewish beliefs as I believe is hyperthetically referred to in Hebrews.

If you have been received by the Lord Jesus as one of His own (Christian) then it would render His work null and void if His precious blood was not enough and could only temporarily cover you depending on your state.

Jesus has done all the work once and for all. I cannot be washed by His blood one day and not the next. If we have had the personal transaction with Him, that all Christians know about, then nothing due to my conditon can void that.

If I am backslidden I only have to return to Him, but I do not have to become a Christian again. The prodigal son was always the son, he just was not in the good of His Father's love and purpose for him, until he returned.

I have the blessed assurance having accepted Him as my Saviour that His sacrifice, His blood, His death and His resurrection has secured me forever, regardless of my state.

Amen that it is His all His work and nothing will pluck us out of His hands.

 

[jiggyfly]

I have found that it really doesn't matter if one believes salvation can be lost or not because they are probably not even comparing apples to apples. In the Christian religion the word salvation has come to mean many different things. So clarify and define salvation, and then it may be possible to have a fruitful discussion.

 

[Boanerges]

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Such a one has known God's goodness and fellowship but simply preferred the world. Was such a person a Christian? I think it is more a question of semantics than anything. They did know Christ (at least in head knowledge), they did walk the walk for some amount of time but apparently placed no real value on Him. When it came down to persecution or trouble they walked away.

 

[JWayne]

Two Scriptures that need to be considered in this discussion are Mark 4 :16-18 and 1 Sam 16: 7-8. Many people "sign up" at an altar call and they mean to be real Christians, but at heart they are self-centered, shallow people. They suit up and show up and look and sound like they're the real thing. But they are not truly sincere. Those of the name it and claim it crowd are often good examples of this. When what they've named and claimed doesn't come to them in what they think is a reasonable time, they declare that this Christianity thing doesn't work and they walk away never to return.

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first". (Heb 3:14 NIV)

SLE

This, to me, is plain that so many simply call themself Christian. They never were a true Christian.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Such a one has known God's goodness and fellowship but simply preferred the world. Was such a person a Christian? I think it is more a question of semantics than anything. They did know Christ (at least in head knowledge), they did walk the walk for some amount of time but apparently placed no real value on Him. When it came down to persecution or trouble they walked away.

Christianity on a trail basis!! yet never a Christian.

 

[JWayne]

Very well said...

There is a clear distinction between becoming backslidden and being an apostate. The former is that if backslidden you grieve the Holy Spirit and therefore are not abiding in Christ. You have not lost your salvation but the joy of it.

The latter is denying Christ if you believe you accepted Him at first. I have known very few examples of this as this would be apostate. The only examples I have known have been those who were formerly Jews accepting Christ then going back to their former Jewish beliefs as I believe is hyperthetically referred to in Hebrews.

If you have been received by the Lord Jesus as one of His own (Christian) then it would render His work null and void if His precious blood was not enough and could only temporarily cover you depending on your state.

Jesus has done all the work once and for all. I cannot be washed by His blood one day and not the next. If we have had the personal transaction with Him, that all Christians know about, then nothing due to my conditon can void that.

If I am backslidden I only have to return to Him, but I do not have to become a Christian again. The prodigal son was always the son, he just was not in the good of His Father's love and purpose for him, until he returned.

I have the blessed assurance having accepted Him as my Saviour that His sacrifice, His blood, His death and His resurrection has secured me forever, regardless of my state.

Amen that it is His all His work and nothing will pluck us out of His hands.

 

[carlos marquez]

Try talking with a dead man,and see if you could bring about
a fruitful conversation.
The bible clearly states,that we were dead in our tresspasses
and sins,dead means dead,there is no other meaning you could
pour into that.

So,no matter how much you (will) staying saved, it wont work apart from
Christ making us alive.
We are free will agents,but that still doesnt change the fact
that those whome He made alive,He kept alive,for a pupose
greater than you and I.
If Christ started a good work I believe He will finish it.

John 8:36.
So if the Son makes liberates you [makes you free men],then you
are really and unquestionably free.
This verse in no way negates free will it simply states a fact.
And the fact is,that,(He)by(His)power has permanently set us free.
You could run away as far as the moon,but His arm is long enough to reach out
to us even in outer space.

Psalm 139
O Lord,you have searched me[thorougly]and have known me.

You know my downsitting and my uprising;you understand my
thought afar off.

You sift and search out my path and my lying down,and you
are aquainted with all my ways.
For there is not a word in my tongue[still unuttered],but,
behold,O Lord,you know it altogether.
You have beset me and shut me in-behind and before,and
you have laid your hand upon me.

Your [infinate] knowledge is too wonderful for me;it is high
above me,I cannot reach it.
Where could I go from your spirit?Or where could I flee from
your presence?

If I ascend up into heaven, You are there;if I make my bed
in Sheol(the place of the dead),behold,You are there.

If I take the wings of the morning or dwell in the uttermost
parts of the sea.
Even there shall Your hand lead me,and Your right hand hold
me.

If I say ,surely the darkness shall cover me and the night
shall be [the only] light about me,
Even the darkness hide nothing from you,but the night shines
as the day;the darkness and the light are both alike to you.

When God saves a person,He does it with purpose,and that
purpose is to get us home,our eternal home.

God does not save you so that he could destroy
you later on.
So if you are saved rejoice because you are in
safe company.

 

[golfjack]

reply

I believe the only way for a believer to lose their salvation is to committ the unpardonable sin, which is totally, in public, on purpose to deny Christ. I believe we see this is possible in Heb. 10:26-30. Then Heb. 6:4-6 sets up the conditions. And remember. if one does lose salvation, they cannot get it back.


Peace, Golfjack

 

[Faithful Son]

No one can "accept" Christ as their Lord and Saviour, it's a plain dislodged issue that has been spread like a bad disease.

Jesus was clear that all are drawn to Him by the Father- John 6 and no one comes to Him unless drawn by Father.

No one can ask Jesus to come live in their hearts or bodies or minds, the only thing they can and should do is to believe in Him -John 3 -Romans 10.

If you don't understand the Biblical facts of Salvation and how that Gift is given, how can you even fathom to understand how to live a life as a saved person?

That counts for everyone, including myself.

 

[Leanne]

To Faithful son, point taken in the use of the word 'accept'. The exact phrase i should have used is to 'receive' the word as in 1 Thee 1:6 'And ye became followers of us and of the Lord, having RECEIVED the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost' and James 1:21 '.... and RECEIVE with meekness the engrafted word which is able to save your souls'
I am working out my 'own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure'. Phil 2:12-13

 

[Coconut]

1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths.
Rather train yourself for godliness;
1Ti 4:8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive[this is the reason] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially [that is]of those who believe.
1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.
1Ti 4:12 ... set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.
-
1Ti 4:15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress.
1Ti 4:16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.


2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!
2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
2Pe 3:14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.


Heb 12:12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,
Heb 12:13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;
Heb 12:16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.
Heb 12:17 For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.
Heb 12:18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them.
Heb 12:20 For they could not endure the order that was given, "If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned."
Heb 12:21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I tremble with fear."
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

No one can ask Jesus to come live in their hearts or bodies or minds, the only thing they can and should do is to believe in Him -John 3 -Romans 10.

"For is is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so no man can boast." (Eph 2:8-9 NIV)

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with Him and he with Me". (Rev 2:20 NIV)

Salvation is a gift that is offered to us. But, we have to reach out (ask) to receive it.

SLE

 

[Faithful Son]

"For is is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so no man can boast." (Eph 2:8-9 NIV)

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with Him and he with Me". (Rev 2:20 NIV)

Salvation is a gift that is offered to us. But, we have to reach out (ask) to receive it.

SLE

John 6 ESV

35Jesus said to them, <woj> "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.</woj> 36<woj>But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.</woj> 37<woj> All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.</woj> 38<woj>For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.</woj> 39<woj>And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.</woj> 40<woj>For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."</woj> 41So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, <woj> "I am the bread that came down from heaven."</woj> 42They said, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, <woj>'I have come down from heaven'</woj>?" 43Jesus answered them, <woj>"Do not grumble among yourselves.</woj> 44<woj>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.</woj> 45<woj>It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—</woj> 46<woj> not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.</woj> 47<woj>Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.</woj> 48<woj> I am the bread of life.</woj> 49<woj> Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.</woj> 50<woj> This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.</woj> 51<woj>I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."</woj>

<woj></woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>I did not dispute, once, that it is through God's Grace that we are able to know His Son. But I do dispute this, no one, that means anyone, whoever they are, can just choose to believe in Jesus. They have to be taught by Father about Jesus, taught by God Himself.</woj>

<woj></woj>
<woj>That's what Jesus said and His words mean more than mere men.
</woj>

 

[Hekuran]

I find it very difficult to come down on one side or the other. I've read the relevant New Testament texts, and my conclusion is in line with the opening post: we are saved by God's power and grace, and it is impossible for God's saving grace to fail.

That is where the distinction between apostate and backslider is helpful.

My difficulty is that what I see around me does not seem to match that. Several people who have been very influential in the development of my faith and inspired me have rejected Christ.

The same seems to me to apply to Old Testament characters such as Solomon. Solomon begins as a shining example but ends up turning his heart away from the Lord. 1 Kings 11.9. What are we to make of this?

 

[Boanerges]

Hi FS! It seems we can let Him in!!!

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

[Faithful Son]

Why do I get the nagging suspision that folks think I'm speaking through my own accord?

Folks, that's what Jesus said, in almost every Bible translation there is. I'm quoting His Words. I'm not saying it, I'm saying what He said.

Accept it please, because what He says counts.

God bless