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Loyal
Indeed, to be dead is to be without life. What can a non-living thing do according to man's natural perceptions? What does Solomon write of the dead?

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5

Death can be an unending thing, but it is not always so, is it? Jesus showed us clearly by examples that natural death could be reversed by the power of God. But... he also spoke of reversing the spiritual death of sin into which every one of us was born when we exited out natural mother's womb.

Is there an unending death? If there is, why must we speak of such death being an existence of unending torment when the verse quoted above says "the dead know not anything"?



Whatever the "lake of fire" is, it is seemingly a final end for some as mentioned in the verse you quoted. It speaks of "the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers", etc. Could we say this is all of the unbelievers or might it be only those who have believed and fallen into unbelief?

Why do people who never believed need an additional punishment? Is not every person born into the natural world we call planet Earth already in condemnation?

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Those who are already condemned are dead already according to Jesus:

"Let the dead bury their dead" Matt 8:22

For them, unless they obtain the Life of Jesus, there is no second death. They are already dead and will remain so although burial may be required.


What does this verse mean to you?

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Isn't the apostle writing about the Holy Spirit within us?

What does that Spirit do within us?

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

Doesn't this mean that the Body of Jesus [the scripture?] that we have eaten will die without the Spirit? When we quench it, when we put it out, is that not putting out the Light in us, the Life in us? When we sin after being "saved" is that not what we do? The power of God in us is just as strong as it is in the man Jesus in carnal flesh... but we have also the power to "limit" God. When we do, isn't it because we have chosen to sin?


To be baptized is to be immersed. We are to be immersed in water and we are to be immersed in the Word of God. We are to be immersed in the Spirit of God. We are to be immersed in Him. we are to be in Him.

Jesus overcame the world of "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" [I John 2:16] as our sacrifice and as our example. He paid the price for us, but he also showed us what we needed to do. All that is necessary for you and I to become overcomers like him has been provided. All we have to do is to become immersed and stay that way so that the work in us can be completed. Every time we quench the Spirit, we delay or stop the work. Every time we eat something (not material eating) other than Jesus, we hinder the process by giving the Holy Spirit the new work of cleaning up our new mess.

It's kind of like a person on very good healthy diet who pauses to go on another "fast food restaurant binge" and then rushes home to get back on the diet. If he does this daily, how likely is it that he will lose the desired weight?

Do we want to be saved and live however we want in this world of men too? "Ye cannot serve God and mammon."



When we are fully dead and fully renewed, then we will fully resurrected. John the Baptist expressed it this way:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

While we continue to eat slop as well as the flesh and blood of Jesus, the "old man" of sin may well at times be increasing faster than the "new man" of Christ. One, one hour worship service per week, and five minutes of rushed prayer per day, with 15 minutes of Bible reading when it doesn't interfere with our favorite TV shows or our regular meetings with friends for fun type activities, may starve the "new man" [the one of Christ] to death. With that starving we push out... no, we kill any Life that we may have had!!!

Well said, Amen, Amen. Inspiring.

So question? Does that mean, that since Jesus lived in the flesh perfectly and showed us that it was possible, that we too can live as He did, if we stay constantly abiding in Him and we don't quench the spirit?

It is possible. Not to be perfect your whole life. But to come to a point in your life where you never sin, willfully again?
 
Loyal

Acts 17:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Since the word eternal means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be then there can be no change.
If someone were to be eternally tortured they would have to have always been being tortured and how would they even know that they are being tortured since there would be nothing else to judge torture by.The new Jerusalem is new so it does not really qualify as eternal.
If the end of all things results in God being all in all and God is eternal and does not change then we are already there now.

Living translation:
Ecclesiastes 3:15 What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again.


The only eternal is God and God is a fire,an all consuming flame.
He makes his ministers a flame.of fire.
We are standing right in the middle of the eternal fire right now as temporary flames or flashing lights of his eternal fire.
The fire consumes everything that is not God until God is all in all.


I hate to go mathematical but are you aware my friend that there are different types of infinity?
I speak of infinity as it relates to eternal.

Are you aware that some infinities are bigger than others?
You might say that makes now sense, but let me illustrate.

Take a set A, which has a number line starting at 0 going to infinity. How many numbers are there?
Well an infinite number.

Now take a set B, with a number line going from -(negative) infinity - 0 - to + (infinity).
How many numbers are there? We'll its still an infinity number but set B has more than
set two.

Take a set C, which is like set B, but now we add the decimal numbers are well.
So when Set B had -2, -1, 0, 1, 2. Set C would have -2.0001, -2.00002, -2.00004 , etc.

Now set C has more than set B.

I just share to get you rethinking you're concept of the infinite.
 
Loyal

Well said, Amen, Amen. Inspiring.

So question? Does that mean, that since Jesus lived in the flesh perfectly and showed us that it was
possible, that we too can live as He did, if we don't quench the spirit and stay constantly abiding in Him?

It is possible. Not to be perfect your whole life. But to come to a point in your life where you never sin, willfully again?[/QUOTE]

According to what I have understood from scripture, a person can reach such a point. I see a separating of believers with the Bride being taken out of the Church. The Church is saved, but the Bride is more than a guest at the wedding feast.

If a person says that he cannot be perfect as Jesus told us to be, then he is manifesting a negative faith and quenching or limiting the work of the Holy Spirit in him:

"According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29
 
Loyal
According to what I have understood from scripture, a person can reach such a point. I see a separating of believers with the Bride being taken out of the Church. The Church is saved, but the Bride is more than a guest at the wedding feast.

If a person says that he cannot be perfect as Jesus told us to be, then he is manifesting a negative faith and quenching or limiting the work of the Holy Spirit in him:

"According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29
Amen, I'm ready to life as such.
 
Loyal
Amen, I'm ready to life as such.
Ah yes, so probably is every sincere believer, but why is it that so many of these who are called simply won't be a part of the Bride? All of us asking, seeking and knocking and yet so many perhaps making it in the end to our Lord, but missing the Bride.

What is the difference between a concubine, a queen and a virgin? And who is this Shulamite? See Song of Solomon chapter 6, but don't expect me to explain further. I am stopped for the moment, but God is not, is He?
 
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