End of Times

[Twistie]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

You had me laughing at stinking thinking my

Ya know it blows my mind how many think like this I mean I just can't..

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!".

I hope all's well with you and yours!!

(⁠◍⁠•⁠ᴗ⁠•⁠◍⁠)⁠❤

 

[KingJ]

Yes God did give us animals for consumption, although at the start of Creation Adam and Eve were given a Vegan diet, 2 Genesis 4:9 & 2 Genesis 4:16, we are given the Earth and all thats within it to be good "Stewards", we are to use, not to abuse, but as usual the sinful nature of humanity causes us to exploit, horde and destroy what God freely gave to us. Anyone thats familiar with the Cruelty and suffering we inflict on Gods creation to satisfy our wanting meat and dairy products, for it is now a want and not a need, must ask themselves the question, " Is this how God wants me to act"?.

But to the point of our Meat and Dairy consumption destroying Gods creation. Animal Farming is the leading cause of Deforestation in the world, with Cattle ranching and Soya production for animal feed accounting for over 90% of Amazon Rainforest destruction. Animal farming is also the leading cause of Habitat loss in general due to the vast amounts of land needed both for grazing and for growing the huge amounts of grain that the 70 Billion farm animals we raise and slaughter every year eat . Due to this habitat loss its also one of the leading causes of Species extinction and consumes up to 30% of the worlds freshwater supplies. It also is responsible for around 15% to 20% of Greenhouse gas emissions, an amount that exceeds the greenhouse gas emissions of ALL forms of transport. Its the leading cause of water pollution, Oceanic dead zones and one of the leading causes of Soil acidification. In short, Meat and Dairy production are an abomination, for the cruelty they inflict on Gods creatures, through the destruction of Gods creation and through the blood soaked slaughterhouses and factory farms that inflict such brutalities on the human souls that work in them.

Yes Aid is a complicated issue, which is why Elon musk and his DOGE associates should have stayed well clear of a subject they know nothing about. The Aid cuts theyve inflicted will cost around 14 million lives and untold pain and suffering to tens of millions more as Hunger programmes are cut back, health centres closed and education and clean water programmes stopped.

And of course many AID programmes had corruption within them, show me a human institution that isnt corrupt, and of course that corruption must be addressed, but to take an axe to programmes that mean life and death to millions is not the answer, root out corruption, improve the provision of aid, dont tie it to donor countries products, dont make it dependent on economic and political reforms, dont give it to those that dont need it, the 2 largest recipients of US Aid are Israel and Egypt, hardly the poorest of the poor, give it to the poorest and make it effective, and give it in the form of grants and not loans which have to be repaid and are thus used as a lever for "opening up" and exploiting poor countries. Yes there are many reforms that can be undertaken, but what Musk, Trump and their associates and supporters have done is to cause even more death and suffering, and God will judge them accordingly.

There are basically 2 parts to Aid, Emergency Aid thats used to keep people alive in times of emergencies, When war, Famine ,flood or other natural disasters strikes, and Development Aid, the Aid thats used to "Teach people how to fish", although thats often not needed as people already know how, they just dont have the resources to do it efficiently, and thats where development aid comes in, by supplying the tools, be it clean water, education, health provision, improved market access for their surplus goods, animal health and disease prevention to name just a few. I watched a programme a couple of days ago where a group of people in Sudan walked 30 km to harvest some wood to turn into Charcoal and then sell in the market for around $5 just to enable their kids to eat, or a woman who was 7 months pregnant who walked 100km to an aid centre with her 2 young children to get food, Emergency aid is there to prevent their suffering, development aid is there to try to prevent their suffering. As Christians we would also add "Spiritual Aid", to nourish both the soul as well as the body. And what better way to provide that Spiritual aid than to "Let our good works shine so that others may see them and praise our Father in heaven".

Interesting, are you speaking from a Christian or Secular perspective here. From a Christian perspective i find it hard to justify military spending, but even if you approach it from a secular view, spending 20 times more on weapons than Aid shows a society thats corrupt and so far removed form the principles of Compassion and justice it claims to stand for, especially so when that country already has the largest and most powerful army the worlds ever seen. Thus millions suffer and die so that more and more weapons are produced, Spiritual and Moral bankruptcy in the extreme

Well if you think being grabbed off the streets by masked and armed men, bundled into vans, held in detention centres renowned for their brutality and deprivations and then deported without due judicial process is not "Harsh and Brutal", when you see people shot for just "observing" the actions of these masked ICE agents, when you see them smashing car windows and dragging out screaming women, when they detain 4,000 children in these Detention centres and kidnap children to force their parents to "give themselves up", now that may or may not be the same as other countries, certainly here in the UK thats not happening, but that isnt the issue, the issue is wherever it happens, is it harsh and brutal, and more importantly are we following Christs Commandment to Love our Neighbour, treat others as we'd want to be treated and to "welcome the stranger", or do you think Christ should have added " As long as theyre Legal"?.

You mean like Christians that are Rich, or who seemingly care little for the poor, suffering and oppressed, or who support a massive Military used to control and destroy their enemies, or those that say nothing about the destruction of Gods creation or the hundreds of millions that are suffering because of that destruction but support a President who through his support of a massive expansion of Oil, Gas and coal production is hastening that suffering and destruction, who live comfortably in a world of such suffering and destruction yet pay lip service to their Saviour who taught them to Deny themselves, take up their Cross and follow where he led, to love their neighbour and treat others as they'd want to be treated, you mean that kind of "People who sin and enjoy it and want to live peacefully in it"?.

You are no John the Baptist, and yes by all means point out the sins of others, but do so in a spirit of Compassion and humility recognising that you are a sinner yourself, and responsible for sins as great or perhaps even greater than those you are so willing to condemn.

And many will reflect first on their own sin, to try to take the log out of their own eye before they try to remove the speck from their brothers, perhaps you see silence when in fact theres an understanding of their own sins and a reluctance to condemn others when their lives are so bound with evil. Speaking out may be a sign "youre a Christian", or it may also be a sign that youre a self righteous hypocrite all too keen to condemn others while choosing to ignore your own failings, But God knows and sees ALL, and his judgement will fall on all of us, sinner and self righteous alike

I see now what you mean by "blanket", i thought you meant "blanket" as to group them all together, but you mean to cover up, well we're ALL guilty of that, whether we think it or not, and the mark of a Christian is to recognise that, to be humble in the sight of God as the wretched sinner that we are and when we do point out the sins of others always do so in that spirit of Humility and also Compassion, for why we do something is as important , or perhaps even more important, than what we actually do.

Rad I cannot continue discussing with you. You are all over the show on all these topics. You and I disagree on a material matter, namely the difference between mortal and venial sins. Until we agree on this painfully logical fact, I don't see a discussion on these other slightly related topics being edifying or fruitful.

 

[Rad]

As long as you are spreading the Gospel it's an Amen!
As far as many branches of Christianity, there is only one Savior and He is Jesus. Without Him there is no Christian faith, and no salvation, much less a Gospel. Born died raised for the sins of the world. Romans road works well, and no matter which scripture translation you look at it to, it reads the same. How you discipleship them then, can have wide conjecture, but stick to the Bible, and them sealed by the Holy Spirit, will in prayer be led right as they also led others.


Agreed, but it comes by the Holy Spirit that changes us, provides us counsel into doing His will. The Word of God, will confirm the rightness of what you are prompted to do. 1 John 4 is for those who are not quite sure of His voice, but eventually you will be. In time familiarity will breed a relationship that confirms friend from foe.

The good works do not lead us to Him, but rather He draws us to Him for those good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

Agreed Brother Nick, we show our love for God and for our fellow man by the good works we do, thus glorifying His Holy name and letting our Light shine bright in this suffering World.

That is why we hold them against the entirety of the Word of God and continue to grow in the knowledge of it. You'll find most false teaching will pick the verses that go along with their dogma, and disregard/excuse the ones that goes against it. It's like Salvation by Works vs Grace. It's a battle that will continue until that day of His return.


I don't, at least not work actively against the law that is given to them by God to institute, which is what I see that you are doing. I know you don't see it or agree with the perspective of Brother Johnson in how he explained each institution established by God, which is your right, but it doesn't make it the manner you are using against it right either. For what you suggest is not living in peace but creates adversity/conflict and harms more then it helps. If the system created has a method by which change can happen, and it does exist here in the USA, then you allow for it to happen. I won't go over again how you are working against this, because as you know only external resistance is available to you, for you are not part of the system of governance. Which sadly, makes you an enemy of this country, even though you may be a brother in Christ. For what you do is subversion, and that I do not see where Christ says is a method by which we should apply to illicit change. Otherwise, what you believe in is Dominionism, though your words would say you reject this.

One of the great advantages in a discussion board such as this is that unlike a conventional conversation that can quickly turn adversarial, you have time to think about what others have said and try to open your heart to Gods will and not your own. I would say that i try to approach each issue from how i understand Christs teachings, and if i perceive something as unjust, or something that goes against Gods spirit of Love and Compassion, then i will speak out and act against it. However the form of that act of resisting injustice and lack of compassion must also conform to Christs teachings. So i resist peacefully, exercising my right and duty of passive resistance , i believe that also falls within the US constitution, i protest, speak out, write letters , sign petitions, send e-mails, donate to charitable organisations This is a method allowed by the "system" to influence change, and i believe that as a Christian we must use every means we can to fight injustice and ease the suffering of the poor and marginalised. I dont seek to overturn the system , for that as you say that would lead to chaos and more suffering, and as so often has been shown in history would only result in another unjust and corrupt Government take over, i seek to alleviate the suffering, to feed the hungry, provide water for the thirsty, shelter for the homeless, mediacal aid for the sick, aid for those imprisoned and refuge for the stranger.
I would also add that i am a follower of Christ and as such do not see myself as a national of any country or member of any political party or Man made institution. My loyalty is to Christ alone, and any other allegiance threatens to both corrupt or weaken that loyalty, for as Christ said, " You cannot serve two masters, for you shall either hate one and love the other, or love one and hate the other",.

I won't go over again on the Anne Frank illustration, for in truth you do not know how God would determine that case. There is more than either you or I know to what happened, or would have happened, if the law had been followed by her and others. You see death as finite once and it is over; from scripture it is eternal through Christ Jesus. You see an end; I see just a beginning. Put it against the prophecies of end of days, and regardless of what you think, you are working towards it and are not delaying it, if you believe breaking a law is a righteous act.

Youre right , i dont know what would have happened to Anne Frank had she followed the orders and allowed herself and her family to be deported, but what i do know is that millions like her were murdered by the Nazis and she herself met her death in a concentration camp together with all her family bar one uncle.
And i dont see death as final, but i do see Christs commandments to love others as we love ourselves and treat others as we'd want to be treated, and i know for sure , if i was a Jew in 1940's Holland when the Nazis invaded i would seek shelter if i could with my family, we have a God given duty for the poor and oppressed, and when Mans Laws and Gods commandments clash then we must follow Gods Commandments, for to do any less would be a betrayal of our faith.

A better life??? Only through Jesus Christ is there life, which is eternal. Our Lord has said that in this world we would be faced with trials and tribulations. Even though He has overcome the world, but people who are running away from what is happening there in their own country to what they believer is a better life, will still find the trials & tribulations wherever they go! There is no escape from it brother, though you seem to believe there is.

Yes, the UK has issues, because instead of doing it in an orderly fashion they overloaded a system that could not handle the millions they let in at a very short interval. If they had followed the immigration numbers done previously to continue, they could have absorbed them, and it would not have created the issues that you see happening now!

The same in the US! Instead of doing it in an organized fashion to allow integration to the existing culture, they pushed in a number which I believe was about 20 million, in such a short time period, that the system could not handle it, and so the conflict has happened and continues to happen. Oh, and it was not done to help the people, but to change the political landscape! You'd have to understand the USA politics to know why this was so, but that's another story!

When Christ said to "welcome the Stranger" , what does that mean to you Brother Nick, does it in fact mean that, or does it mean "to welcome the Stranger" to a certain point, to allow so many "strangers" in to be "welcomed", does it mean detaining and deporting those we consider unworthy of being "welcomed", the way i see it is that there are no limits on Christs words, that as Christians, followers of his, we must accept the truth of his commandments to us, now whether we can implement or live with those truths is another issue, but we must not allow ourselves to become corrupted by this evil world that tells us such utterances are naive and unworkable, for if something is true, then its true, regardless of the implications that truth imposes.

Therein is the problem, which is change fast enough to allow it to be orderly instead of chaotic. Impatient of wanting it "now" a problem with our society, and the inability to work patiently towards an end that allows for the change, at the same time without the chaos that ensues when it is rushed. Yes, you can love them, at the same time loving them that you want what's best for them, and not what we think is best for them, while according that it's God's will for them, when in truth we are only assuming it to be now and not sometime in the future, as yet undetermined. Also, are we loving one over the other in how we seek to do things? If in helping one, we harm another, are we in truth helping either one in the way that God wants us to and are we qualified to know when our desire to do good instead harms?

This world will never fundamentally change, it will always be evil, corrupt and corrupting, as such the best we can hope for is to alleviate the pain and suffering of those in need, i am therefore not "impatient for change", lest it be the only real change that will happen when Christ returns. But that being so, as a follower of Christ i must try to follow his teachings, out of Love for God and my Neighbour i must try to bring Light into the darkness, however bright that candle may shine,
And we can only do what we think is best, within the confines of "Treat others as you'd want to be treated", we can only put ourselves in their position and think what we'd want, thats the only yardstick we have, but i believe its the best and truest guide to our acts of Justice and compassion, for it requires nothing more than to look into our own heart and see the answer. So trust Christ when he says thats what we must do, and all else will fall into place as it should.

Rest easy brother. In Christ is the Rock upon which you stand! His victory is ours as well, and for that we see, and shout "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Trusting in Him, in His Time, forever! So, don't be troubled.

Thank you Brother , i wish i could, but i feel called constantly to try to do more, to deny myself, to offer my life as a sacrifice and try in my own small way to walk where Christ has led. Yes the road is narrow and hard, but when compared to the suffering and deprivations i see others having to endure, my own petty trials pale into insignificance

With the love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

With the Love of Christ Jesus my dear brother in Christ Steve.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><




give all the Glory, Honor, and Praise to Him who sits on the Throne!

Amen to that Brother!!.

 

[Rad]

God judges righteously and according to the sin Psalm 7:11.

So, its a no, no you will not divorce your wife. Thank you, some honesty for a change.

Youve really got to stop assuming just because someone disagrees with you then theyre being "dishonest", i try to be honest in my answers and give my opinion, and thats all it is, an opinion, and youre free to agree or disagree with it, i dont think youre being Dishonest, just wrong in your opinion, but thats what these discussion boards are for, to discuss, to hear others point of view and if you agree with what theyre saying then adjust your views accordingly, accusing someone of being dishonest if they disagree with you does nothing to get your message across, however valid that message may be.

No Rad, you need to read it again. Being subject to judgement is not the same as equal sentences / punishment for a sin.

As i say we'll have to agree to disagree.

We won't agree because you are unteachable. You are holding onto a straw with all your might.

There you go again, I'm "unteachable" because i disagree with what youre saying, is that what you think your role is here, to "teach" others, because if thats the case then youve got a lot of learning to do, i really think you need to take a good dose of humility and the understanding that you just might be wrong sometimes, for what does the Lord require of us but to "Act Justly, and to Love Mercy and to walk HUMBLY with your God." You'd do well to consider that.

Hitler signed off on the orders to do many of the atrocities committed. He did also not try stop what was taking place when he knew it was happening. So, yes, he is very guilty of the sins committed. DUH?

Why the "DUH", what is it thats in you where you feel this need to humiliate and intimidate , the point i was making was that Hitler, and this can be said of many of the architects of genocide and mass murder, never actually killed anyone himself, yet by their thoughts and words you consider them as guilty as those that physically carried out the atrocities, Hmmm, interesting.

I don't think you understand the test. The test is not ''do I have sin'. The test is ''do I hate sin and if so, am I battling only with venial sins? Sins that do not show a depth of intent for love of what is evil''.

You mean like the sin of being Rich where Christ said it would be "Easier for a Camel to pass through the Eye of a Needle than a rich man enter Heaven", or where the Rich man was condemned to Hell because as Abraham said" In your life you had good things and now you must suffer.....", or of Zacchaeus, where Christ only pronounced salvation upon him when he'd promised to give half his wealth to the poor and payback 4 times to anyone he'd cheated, an act that, as Chief Publican, would probably have left him almost penniless, or the Sin of not showing Compassion to the poor and suffering, the hungry, the sick, the thirsty, the homeless, imprisoned and the stranger, where Christ sent those that ignored the poor to Hell, you mean that sort of Sin, or when Christ said to the Pharisees, who were covetous" You are they which justify yourselves before men, but God knows your Heart, for that which is highly esteemed amongst men is an ABOMINATION in the sight of God", and what do men value more than Wealth and Power, often linked to a disdain of the poor, which seems to be a characteristics of the President you so admire, ....... so are you battling those sins, do you hate those sins, or do you still love what is Evil?, as ive said, to get the right answer to the question you first of all have to set the parameters of the question itself, what if you dont recognise being Rich or ignoring the poor as a sin and continue doing it, you've passed your own test but blatantly failed Christs and will suffer the consequences.

What crock. Good = helping others. God first. Bad = hurting others.

There you go again, why the "What crock", can you not just state your view and leave it at that,

We BOTH have a working brain that can discern this. God gave both of us eyes to see someone suffering. Ears to hear their cries. And hands to help them. We are by design able to fully grasp good and evil.

The text i was referring to was Matthew 7 15:20, of course we can see when Evil is enacted, and we can see when people do good, although to be seen doing good doesnt always imply the right motivation, and thats what the passage is about, Christ talks of "False prophets, which come to you in Sheeps clothing but inside are ravening wolves", "You shall know them by their Fruits", this implies to me that we need to try to look deeper than just the outward show, i can think of one particular Tele Evangelist who said that while flying on a commercial flight, God had said to him he should have his own Private Jet, to go alongside the mansion where he lives and the fleet of luxury cars he owns, so although he was preaching the Gospel and proclaiming the Good news of Christ, his "Fruits" betrayed a far darker motivation. thats how i see it anyway.,

What crock. It is impossible to be evil if you are taking time out of your day to go help an old lady change a light bulb.

Again, please can you just leave out the insults, i think youre showing your naivety of Human Nature here, i'll give you an example from here in the UK, there was this guy, Fred West, who together with his wife Rose West, over a period of 20 years or more kidnapped, tortured and raped young girls and women, they even killed their own children and buried the bodies in their garden, many people were shocked when they were arrested, and i'll always remember someone saying, " I couldnt believe that Fred would do something like that, he was always so friendly, he was always doing odd jobs for people, especially the old folk", so dont be fooled by outward appearances, try to look deeper and see the "fruit" that shows their true nature.

The second is the SECOND. Stop playing with words. Our devotion is to God first and then others.

and how do we show our Love for God, well have a read of Matthew 25 31:46, we show our Love for God by our Love for others, especially those in need, for how can we "see a brother and sister in need, have the means to help, but refuse to do so and then claim we have the Love of God within us", it cant be done, Loving God and our Neighbour are 2 sides of the same coin and our devotion is to both.

What crock.

You are sounding like a Calvinist. Before Christianity and Jesus, people got themselves into paradise by repenting of their sins. Hating what is evil over loving it.

You just cant help yourself can you, i think thats 3 "what crocks" and 1 "Duh" to date, why do you feel the need to do this, just state your OPINION, and thats all it is, and leave it at that, but we are now living after Jesus and the founding of Christianity, so lets take it from there shall we.

There we go, I knew you were pro LGBTQ++. Please read this slowly. You are being intellectually dishonest and coming off as a troll

Where have i ever said i'm "pro LGBTQ++", and why do you think i'm being "intellectually dishonest and coming off as a Troll", ive given you my honest opinion and i believe youve given me yours, you think i'm wrong i think youre wrong, try not to be so personal , to make personality attacks, if you disagree with me then tell me why and ill answer to the best of my ability.

.

All unrepentant sinners will go to hell. All repentant sinners will go to heaven. A sign that you are a repentant sinner is being unable to commit those sins that God hates so much that He ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for them. DUH?

It had to be, there just had to be another "DUH" before youd finished, but to reiterate what ive already said, to repent of a sin you have to first of all recognise that it is a sin, and therein lies the problem, but what about those sins where Christ explicitly condemned the sinner to Hell, would they be cast as "Mortal sins", and could you give me a Biblical reference for this distinction of "Mortal and Venial sin", so i could look at it myself, thanks

Rad - The US spending lots of money on weapons is evil. They should rather help rich and poor.
KingJ - They have to, if a country like Iran got nukes, we are all dead. Even rich and poor.
Rad - The US has lots of weapons so they don't have to be afraid and Iran doesn't have nukes yet.
KingJ - Speechless

I think youve misrepresented my point of view there, you probably misunderstood what i was trying to say, I'll spell it out again
Rad. The US spending hundreds of Billions of $'s on Weapons is wrong. The US cutting back on overseas Aid is wrong
KingJ They have to ,if a country like Iran got Nuclear weapons we are all dead. Rich and poor.
Rad Iran hasnt got a Nuclear weapon, and even if they had they wouldnt attack the US, and why does the US need to spend anymore on weapons when they could destroy the world with their existing Arsenal 10 times over.
KingJ Speechless.
Ive got to say i dont see any inconsistency in my train of thought, but i may be wrong, for as ive said, HUMILITY is a God given Characteristic we should ALL cultivate.

 

[Rad]

If any preaches a different Gospel let him be cursed..your evil your fruits show it your pro help the assailant n pro making the victim suffer..
Using the Word for your evil agenda..sound like blasphemy to the Holy Spirit..that is unforgivable

Even Satan new the Word
(⁠｡⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠｡⁠)

How am i "preaching a different Gospel", i've just quoted Acts with an interpretation of it, wheres the "different gospel" there cause Acts is in my Bible, perhaps its not in yours,....... and when you call someone "evil" and "cursed", then you should be able to back that up,cause theyre pretty damning words to use, so again i ask where have i said that i'm "pro assailant n pro making the victim suffer", ......... and how is it "my agenda" when alls i'm doing is quoting Christ and offering my interpretation of it, if you disagree with that interpretation thats fine, but tell me why you disagree, just dont go mouthing off about "evil agendas" and "blasphemy to the Holy Spirit", after all, isnt that what these discussion boards are for, to discuss ?,........and is the comment "even Satan Knew the word" another shot at me?,........ youve really got to understand that just because someone disagrees with your point of view, that doesnt make them "Evil" , and that you just might be wrong and they just might be right,........ as ive said before a little bit of HUMILITY can go a long, long way in helping us understand the Truth of Gods word.

 

[Rad]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

You had me laughing at stinking thinking my

I'm sure that Jesus, in his "Love and Wisdom", was laughing along with you Bill, at your contribution to this discussion.

 

[Rad]

Rad I cannot continue discussing with you. You are all over the show on all these topics. You and I disagree on a material matter, namely the difference between mortal and venial sins. Until we agree on this painfully logical fact, I don't see a discussion on these other slightly related topics being edifying or fruitful.

Thats fine KingJ, another one of the great advantages of Discussion boards such as this is that we can just choose to end conversing with no animosity shown. Yes we do disagree on "Venial and Mortal sins", and i have asked for Biblical references to support your view which have been unforthcoming, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, that again is fine. But as to my being "all over the show on these topics", you asked me about how Animal Farming is destroying the world, which i answered, you mentioned being rich as being not an issue for God, and not showing compassion for those in need as barely registering on Gods level of sins, both of which i responded to, and you mentioned Climate change which i responded to, Its a shame you regard being rich in a world of poverty and suffering, of acting in a way thats destroying Gods creation and of showing indifference to the suffering of others as "slightly related topics" in the discussion of sin, but that again is your prerogative, all i can do is say what i believe and listen to the views of others, i believe in all of these "slightly related issues" that youre wrong, but if you dont wish to discuss further then thats OK.

 

[Twistie]

How am i "preaching a different Gospel", i've just quoted Acts with an interpretation of it, wheres the "different gospel" there cause Acts is in my Bible, perhaps its not in yours,....... and when you call someone "evil" and "cursed", then you should be able to back that up,cause theyre pretty damning words to use, so again i ask where have i said that i'm "pro assailant n pro making the victim suffer", ......... and how is it "my agenda" when alls i'm doing is quoting Christ and offering my interpretation of it, if you disagree with that interpretation thats fine, but tell me why you disagree, just dont go mouthing off about "evil agendas" and "blasphemy to the Holy Spirit", after all, isnt that what these discussion boards are for, to discuss ?,........and is the comment "even Satan Knew the word" another shot at me?,........ youve really got to understand that just because someone disagrees with your point of view, that doesnt make them "Evil" , and that you just might be wrong and they just might be right,........ as ive said before a little bit of HUMILITY can go a long, long way in helping us understand the Truth of Gods word.

To be quite frank I don't see any reason to try and explain your stuck on your ways over the Lord your cherry pick n twist His grace and pervert it as it is written..you like to trample on pearls n take up for evil and strip the Rightouesness from the Lord Himself..you don't disagree with me you disagree with the Lord Himself..you talk circles n word salad cherry pick on what you wanna believe thee Lord is...I'm not debating you I'm telling you what you n I stand on what I say..

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter

Like I said I'm not debating with ya seems ya love the evil n think it ok for evil to consume while ya sit back n watch n condemn those who speak and act out against..

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

You like to excuse evil and turn a blind eye to the carnage they leave behind..n that is not what the gospel is at all..

\⁠(⁠๑⁠╹⁠◡⁠╹⁠๑⁠)⁠ﾉ⁠♬

 

[KingJ]

There you go again, I'm "unteachable" because i disagree with what youre saying, is that what you think your role is here, to "teach" others, because if thats the case then youve got a lot of learning to do, i really think you need to take a good dose of humility and the understanding that you just might be wrong sometimes, for what does the Lord require of us but to "Act Justly, and to Love Mercy and to walk HUMBLY with your God." You'd do well to consider that.

Why the "DUH", what is it thats in you where you feel this need to humiliate and intimidate , the point i was making was that Hitler, and this can be said of many of the architects of genocide and mass murder, never actually killed anyone himself, yet by their thoughts and words you consider them as guilty as those that physically carried out the atrocities, Hmmm, interesting.

You mean like the sin of being Rich where Christ said it would be "Easier for a Camel to pass through the Eye of a Needle than a rich man enter Heaven", or where the Rich man was condemned to Hell because as Abraham said" In your life you had good things and now you must suffer.....", or of Zacchaeus, where Christ only pronounced salvation upon him when he'd promised to give half his wealth to the poor and payback 4 times to anyone he'd cheated, an act that, as Chief Publican, would probably have left him almost penniless, or the Sin of not showing Compassion to the poor and suffering, the hungry, the sick, the thirsty, the homeless, imprisoned and the stranger, where Christ sent those that ignored the poor to Hell, you mean that sort of Sin, or when Christ said to the Pharisees, who were covetous" You are they which justify yourselves before men, but God knows your Heart, for that which is highly esteemed amongst men is an ABOMINATION in the sight of God", and what do men value more than Wealth and Power, often linked to a disdain of the poor, which seems to be a characteristics of the President you so admire, ....... so are you battling those sins, do you hate those sins, or do you still love what is Evil?, as ive said, to get the right answer to the question you first of all have to set the parameters of the question itself, what if you dont recognise being Rich or ignoring the poor as a sin and continue doing it, you've passed your own test but blatantly failed Christs and will suffer the consequences.

There you go again, why the "What crock", can you not just state your view and leave it at that,

The text i was referring to was Matthew 7 15:20, of course we can see when Evil is enacted, and we can see when people do good, although to be seen doing good doesnt always imply the right motivation, and thats what the passage is about, Christ talks of "False prophets, which come to you in Sheeps clothing but inside are ravening wolves", "You shall know them by their Fruits", this implies to me that we need to try to look deeper than just the outward show, i can think of one particular Tele Evangelist who said that while flying on a commercial flight, God had said to him he should have his own Private Jet, to go alongside the mansion where he lives and the fleet of luxury cars he owns, so although he was preaching the Gospel and proclaiming the Good news of Christ, his "Fruits" betrayed a far darker motivation. thats how i see it anyway.,

Again, please can you just leave out the insults, i think youre showing your naivety of Human Nature here, i'll give you an example from here in the UK, there was this guy, Fred West, who together with his wife Rose West, over a period of 20 years or more kidnapped, tortured and raped young girls and women, they even killed their own children and buried the bodies in their garden, many people were shocked when they were arrested, and i'll always remember someone saying, " I couldnt believe that Fred would do something like that, he was always so friendly, he was always doing odd jobs for people, especially the old folk", so dont be fooled by outward appearances, try to look deeper and see the "fruit" that shows their true nature.

and how do we show our Love for God, well have a read of Matthew 25 31:46, we show our Love for God by our Love for others, especially those in need, for how can we "see a brother and sister in need, have the means to help, but refuse to do so and then claim we have the Love of God within us", it cant be done, Loving God and our Neighbour are 2 sides of the same coin and our devotion is to both.

You just cant help yourself can you, i think thats 3 "what crocks" and 1 "Duh" to date, why do you feel the need to do this, just state your OPINION, and thats all it is, and leave it at that, but we are now living after Jesus and the founding of Christianity, so lets take it from there shall we.

Where have i ever said i'm "pro LGBTQ++", and why do you think i'm being "intellectually dishonest and coming off as a Troll", ive given you my honest opinion and i believe youve given me yours, you think i'm wrong i think youre wrong, try not to be so personal , to make personality attacks, if you disagree with me then tell me why and ill answer to the best of my ability.


I think youve misrepresented my point of view there, you probably misunderstood what i was trying to say, I'll spell it out again
Rad. The US spending hundreds of Billions of $'s on Weapons is wrong. The US cutting back on overseas Aid is wrong
KingJ They have to ,if a country like Iran got Nuclear weapons we are all dead. Rich and poor.
Rad Iran hasnt got a Nuclear weapon, and even if they had they wouldnt attack the US, and why does the US need to spend anymore on weapons when they could destroy the world with their existing Arsenal 10 times over.
KingJ Speechless.
Ive got to say i dont see any inconsistency in my train of thought, but i may be wrong, for as ive said, HUMILITY is a God given Characteristic we should ALL cultivate.

Rad, you keep framing disagreement as if the issue is tone rather than substance. Let’s return to the actual argument.

First, acknowledging that someone can be guilty of a sin without physically committing the act is not controversial, it is basic moral reasoning and also biblical. Ordering evil, enabling evil, or approving evil still carries guilt. That is why leaders who authorize atrocities are held responsible even if they never personally pull the trigger. Responsibility does not disappear simply because the act is delegated.

Second, you keep shifting the discussion from the principle of repentance and moral intent to unrelated examples about wealth, geopolitics, or televangelists. Those may be interesting discussions, but they don’t address the central point: repentance means recognizing sin, hating it, and turning from it. Without that recognition, repentance cannot even begin. That is the point being made.

Third, disagreement is fine, but simply saying “we’ll agree to disagree” avoids engaging the reasoning presented. Debate only works if both sides address the argument itself rather than sidestepping it.

Finally, humility cuts both ways. It does not mean every interpretation is equally valid, nor that moral distinctions disappear. The discussion is about whether intent, responsibility, and repentance matter in moral judgment. If you want to challenge that, then address the principle directly instead of diverting the conversation into parallel topics.

 

[KingJ]

but what about those sins where Christ explicitly condemned the sinner to Hell,

I assume you are referring to these?

• Matthew 25:41–46 Jesus says those who failed to help the hungry, thirsty, stranger, naked, sick, and imprisoned will go into “everlasting punishment.”
  
  
• Luke 16:19–31 (The Rich Man and Lazarus)
  The rich man ends up in torment after ignoring the suffering poor man at his gate.
  
  
• Matthew 19:23–24
  Jesus says it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom, using the “camel through the eye of a needle” analogy.

You are making two large errors.

1. Category Error (Confusing warning with automatic condemnation)

The passages cited about wealth or neglecting the poor are warnings about the spiritual danger of those attitudes, not a declaration that wealth itself automatically condemns someone to hell.

For example:

Matthew 19:23–26 After saying it is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom, Jesus immediately adds “with God all things are possible.”
Wealth is therefore not the sin itself, but the love of wealth and the hardness of heart it can create.

Likewise, the rich man in Luke 16:19–31 is condemned for ignoring suffering right in front of him.

You are turning warnings about moral failure into automatic damnation rules, which the text does not say.

2. Strawman of Your Argument

My point was about repentance and hatred of sin as a sign of genuine faith.

You are shifting the discussion to: “What if someone doesn’t recognise certain sins like wealth or neglect of the poor?”

This actually proves my point rather than refuting it. If someone refuses to recognize or confront their sin, then they are not truly repenting. Repentance requires acknowledging wrongdoing.

Scripture repeatedly ties salvation to repentance:

Acts 3:19 — “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.”

would they be cast as "Mortal sins", and could you give me a Biblical reference for this distinction of "Mortal and Venial sin", so i could look at it myself, thanks

Please read the OP here - Degrees of sin - Poll

 

[Daughter Of THe KING!]

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35&nbsp;By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

This should make us think a little bit, I see a lot of discourse in this thread. Yes, people can have their voices heard, but we should love each other because Christ loved everyone. He died for every single one of us so we should love each other no matter where we come from, no matter what political beliefs we have. We should show people on this forum who don't know Jesus that Jesus loves them. just thoughts

 

[Bill]

I'm sure that Jesus, in his "Love and Wisdom", was laughing along with you Bill, at your contribution to this discussion.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I sure hope so. As much of the conversation does not show the Christians in a Christian light at all. In fact I stopped being in this conversation because of the altitude of some of the conversation that was going on.

I can comprehend why you come from your position, it's common among many to question certain things or make certain statements when they look at the world the way it is and wonder if God is not a sadist or something different than what we think of him. Even I have to sit there and tell people that our God is not a passive God.

But then when you look at scripture, and it says that God is love. People miss construe the concept of what love is, love is also sending Jesus to the cross having him tortured and nailed through a cross for our sakes.

But God also doesn't interfere with people making their own personal choices, such as Judas for instance. He wasn't created to sin, he wasn't created to betray Jesus. God doesn't create people to do that, God doesn't create sin. But he does create people to have their own free will to make their own choices. Even though he knows the outcome of their choices already ( the mystery of God) .

I have told many people that I believe that the sin that Peter did, his denial of Jesus three times before the **** crowed, was a greater sin than what Judas did. If you think about it, Peter was given the understanding of who Jesus was, the Messiah by God the Father. Peter was also the one that walked on the water. Both of these things Judas did not do. And Judas was trying to force God's hand by forcing Jesus to be in front of the Pharisees.( this is something that many Christians do today when they pray for the tribulation to hurry up so that they can go up in the rapture sooner, it's one of the many reasons why I continuously state that the Rapture is a false teaching. It's too selfish in its nature)

Back to your conversation, as I said the Christians do not present themselves very well in the conversation here with you and it probably bolsters you in your belief.

There is one thing that I think is rather comical in my personal opinion and it has to do with this. Don't you think that a little funny that hope you and all of us Christians call ourselves Christians and we believe that there's God. But when you meet somebody that says they actually talk to God the first thought to come to your mind or so he must be a crazy person. Why would people think that, you really do believe that there is a God right? And if there is a God don't you talk to him? Or is that just a figment of everybody's imagination?

I wonder why people are not more interested in doing a very thing that Jesus asked us to do? He didn't tell us to argue with each other on the better path, he only told us to preach to the ends of the Earth. He also said that if a person is with us he's not against us

 

[NoSoftAltar]

I am 65 years old and I have never seen such delusion in this country. Because of sick social media and reprobate smiling politicians, I have never seen such utter lawlessness in this country.
Its like uttter animal mindlessness running amok, to go out and lustfully sin without any conscience, either not knowing or caring when Jesus Christ returns.

I used to feel the same way, but scripture tells us that there is nothing new under the sun. The same corruption, greed, manipulation, idolatry, sin that we see today was present from the beginning. The only difference is we have just become more creative in the methods and in hiding evil. Always remember that Jesus knew this would be the case. He clearly stated that wide is the path and the gate that leads to destruction. Narrow is the path and the gate that leads to Heaven and few would find it. All that you see is already known to God. Just find the narrow path and stay on it. We must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Twistie]

 

[Rad]

To be quite frank I don't see any reason to try and explain your stuck on your ways over the Lord your cherry pick n twist His grace and pervert it as it is written..you like to trample on pearls n take up for evil and strip the Rightouesness from the Lord Himself..you don't disagree with me you disagree with the Lord Himself..you talk circles n word salad cherry pick on what you wanna believe thee Lord is...I'm not debating you I'm telling you what you n I stand on what I say..

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter

Like I said I'm not debating with ya seems ya love the evil n think it ok for evil to consume while ya sit back n watch n condemn those who speak and act out against..

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

You like to excuse evil and turn a blind eye to the carnage they leave behind..n that is not what the gospel is at all..

\⁠(⁠๑⁠╹⁠◡⁠╹⁠๑⁠)⁠ﾉ⁠♬

Yes thats fine, if you dont wish to discuss it further then thats your prerogative, but if you accuse someone of "loving the Evil and thinking its OK for Evil to consume while you sit back and watch", then it would be helpful for you to point out how exactly i'm doing that, but if you dont want to tell, then i'll let it go.

 

[Twistie]

Yes thats fine, if you dont wish to discuss it further then thats your prerogative, but if you accuse someone of "loving the Evil and thinking its OK for Evil to consume while you sit back and watch", then it would be helpful for you to point out how exactly i'm doing that, but if you dont want to tell, then i'll let it go.

Like I said your deaf unto anything that don't fit your narrative to use evil as an excuse to take righteousness away from the Lord..Only the Lord can heal you..

Hope ya come into the Light..(⁠๑⁠♡⁠⌓⁠♡⁠๑⁠)