End of Times

[Rad]

Dear Brother Steve,
Thank-you for your reply.
I felt we would be like-minded in points 1-4, and your response confirmed it. At least, I had hoped that would be the case.


Now to the ones that are more typical to the day and age of the church that we are living in.

5. Since it is not or as you have said "never to occur in this Evil world, a world, as I see it that is ruled by Satan and the Evil in mens hearts", what you are telling me then is that no matter what we do to put in place the teachings of Christ, it will not happen. That no matter how we attempt to put our Lords teachings into practice the world as we know it will not change. This is why, He commanded us to something different. Matthew 28:18-20. and in so doing by this actions the change which is by the Holy Spirit, will move others to doing the same.

Thats what i believe Brother Nick, the fundamentally Evil and Corrupt nature of this world will remain until Christ returns and puts all to right. But that doesnt mean that we have no influence to make things better, albeit in a very small way, we can transform others lives and our own through Christs teaching and putting those teachings into practice. So although this world will not fundamentally change, our lives, and through our example, others lives, can change . We must be "the light of the world" and through our good works "others will see them and Glorify our Father in heaven". Matthew 28 18:20 is a call for a complete discipleship, in mind, body, spirit and action. We are called not only to make Disciples of others but to teach them ALL the commandments of Christ, which Christ succinctly summed up as "Loving God with all your mind, heart and Soul and your Neighbour as yourself".

Sadly, when our focus becomes the actions of change, and not the avenue by which change can happen, not to the world, but by the Holy Spirit to illicit the individual transformation through Christ Jesus, we cease to be doing His will, and wind up doing our own. All else are but structures by which we can help to implement His command to go throughout the world...

Our focus must be on both the actions of change and the avenue by which that everlasting change can take place. What better way of showing Christs love for the world than feeding the hungry, providing water for the thirsty, homes for the homeless, care for the sick, support for the prisoner and shelter for the stranger. Indeed we follow a Saviour that so identified with the poor and marginalised, the outcast and the refugee, that he said when you help them you help me and when you ignore them you ignore me. Spiritual and bodily help are not exclusive, but are interdependent, you cannot be a follower of Christ without the acceptance of him spiritually as your Lord and Saviour, and you cannot bodily accept Christ without being the implement of his Love and compassion in the World.

Note: I am also glad to hear #5 from you. For to think otherwise is to believe in Dominionism or what is called Dominion Theology, that somehow, we must put into place a Nation Governed by Gods Law, before Jesus' return.

Yes i think we both agree that will never happen, for any institution created and Governed by men will be fundamentally Evil and Corrupt, acceptance of that fact is a precursor to understanding that its only through Christ that this world will ever become a place of righteousness, a world where Justice, kindness and humility reign.

You are starting to see exactly the problem at hand, and why unless force is used it will not change, and then but temporarily. We tout the end of the slave trade, though it continues to this day, but to institute it at least as much as we have it took great violence to achieve. Whether it was by sea or land (US Civil War), man knows no other way by their actions to attempt to put into place what Christ has called the individual to be. The sinful nature knows no other way to attempt to be godlike in application, and as believers we know that only the Holy Spirit provides/allows for the transformation that is eternal for it is spiritual and not temporal in nature or power that makes lasting change possible through Christ Jesus.

I have struggled with this concept for over 40 years Brother Nick, the seemingly ineffectiveness of Love and Compassion when faced with the harsh brutality of this world, i studied the Holocaust, read and saw the horrors of East Timor, the mindless brutality of the Khmer Rouge, the bloodbath that was central America in the 1980's, the atrocities of Saddam Hussains rule in Iraq and the 2 Gulf wars, the genocide in Rwanda to name just a few, and in the background always, the relentless toll of lives lost though Poverty, Hunger and Disease in a world of plenty. So many times i've called for military intervention to stop the killing and end the suffering, but know that every time i do i am in contravention of Christs commandment to "turn the other cheek", "to not resist Evil" and "to love my enemies", not blow them to Hell or wherever they may end up. For i could see no alternative, could see no other way of stopping the violence and bloodshed. But is my ignorance, is my earthly perception sufficient reason to ignore Christs commandments, will it be a defence when i stand before God to say, " But Lord ,your way just wasnt working"?, i think not. So as the Holy Spirit works within me, well hopefully it does, i must give up my perception of whats right and whats wrong and acquiesce to Christs teaching. I must "turn the other cheek", i must "not resist Evil" and i must "Love my Enemies", but if i was armed with a gun and faced with a killer about to execute women and children would i shoot him?, i probably would, to wound not kill, but i pray that God never puts me in that situation, and what of the murderous RSF thugs in Sudan, raping and murdering, alls i can say is i know what i should do as a Christian, a follower of Christ, but whether i would follow his teachings when faced with the reality of my actions, i really dont know.

As we draw closer to God, we see the sin in us/humanity all the more, yet all the more necessary to the day it is cast away from who we are in Christ Jesus one final time in complete submission as all barriers are done away with; to be raised up anew on that day, we need to keep living out Matthew 28:18-20. Everything else will fall into place—or not—as God wills, at the End of Days.

And i truly wish i could do that, but i know in my heart, as a wretched sinner, that there are, and always will be, so many barriers in my walk with God, which is why every night i pray for this world to end, not only for all the suffering, death and destruction that goes on in it but also for an an end to the wretched sinner i am and a rebirth anew to one at one with God, and free from sin and the lusts of this world.

What you are called to do is what He told us to do:

Jesus came and told his disciples, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

I do so much love that text, for it speaks of endurance, of loyalty, of an everlasting love that this world cannot break, and the teaching is "to make Disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" and to teach these new Disciples "to obey ALL the commands i have given you". Its a teaching that embraces both the spiritual act of conversion and the physical act of putting that conversion into practice in the world. The reflection of our Love for God is our actions of Justice, Love and compassion in his world. Without those actions our Conversion will be incomplete and we will indeed be numbered amongst those that, although we profess Christ as our Saviour and do many good works, without Love and compassion, Christ will say, "I know you not".

Even as humanity’s actions weigh on you, showing a lack of love and causing unnecessary pain and suffering, no matter what you do or don’t do, remain steadfast in letting God work without standing in His way. The system in place is not what is wrong for it has been instituted by God, but the individuals themselves, for as a believer I have said it before, change is by the Holy Spirit through Christ Jesus. God's Grace, Mercy is sufficient, to His will being done. That is, if you allow it, but without faith in Jesus to transform others through the Holy Spirit, evil will remain the same, only wearing a different face.

Thats what i try to do, i understand how ineffectual my actions are, but believe that we can all be conduits of Gods Love and Compassion in this suffering world, alls we have to do is try to follow Christs commandments and the rest will follow. With Humility we have to realise just what sinners we are, but also recognise that through Gods Grace, his Love and compassion can flow through us and touch others, yes, you were right, for even from Evil much good can come

With the love of Christ Brother Nick

Steve

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rad]

Please read my OP here - Degrees of sin - Poll



Incorrect. Matt 5:28 vs Matt 5:32.



Come on man, you are not thinking. Please meditate more on what you say. Of course you can prove someone has a thought. Every guy turning their head as a pretty woman in tight pants walks past is according to you thinking about a glazed donut?

You can summise thats what someones thinking, but how can you know, what if someone turned their head for a perfectly innocent reason and there was a "pretty woman in tight pants" as you put it, what then?, what youre saying here is that thoughts should be a basis or not for Earthly conviction, i'm saying thats impossible to police, for no one truly knows anothers thoughts, but to God, for whom ALL our thoughts, words and deeds are KNOWN, not summised, then some thoughts will incur the same Heavenly punishment as the act itself, if they're not repented.

Have you scratched out Matt 5:32 from your bible?

no, Matthew 5:32 is still there, but i think youre confusing Earthly and Heavenly judgement, read Matthew 5: 21-23, words and thoughts with an equivalent Heavenly judgement as the act itself,

Yes a Christian has been judged and accepted by God. You are touching on a topic that is discussed by many over hundreds of pages. OSAS vs non OSAS. I will just say that God can properly judge us Jer 17:9-12, even you acknowledged that in your post. So, if God can properly judge, why assume someone gifted eternal life can lose it? Is it not smarter to teach that they never got it in the first place? You see if you truly believe in non-OSAS you have to by default also believe A. God makes mistakes and cannot properly judge (opposing Num 23:19 and Job 34:12) and B. Not believe in eternal bliss, as if we can fall from grace, we can fall from it at anytime (opposing John 3:16)

I agree, ONLY God can truly Judge us, therefore our perception of whether we're "saved" or otherwise on this Earth is a judgement none of us can make, or do you believe you can foresee Gods judgement?. In short we do not know that we are a Christian until that final Judgement which is why, according to Christ, many that believed themselves "saved" are in fact lost, for they failed to follow Christs commandments to the best of their ability and built their houses upon shifting sands and not the solid rock of true belief.

.

As for the verse you quoted. You need to read the full passage, not only '''I never knew you''. When you do you will find that these people cast out demons (vanity), healed the sick (vanity) and prophesied (vanity). Did any of them help orphans (selfless) and widows in need (selfless)? If they did, Jesus would not say to them '''I do not know you''.

How is casting out Demons Vanity when Christ says in Mark 16:17 that one of the signs of those that believe is to "Cast out Devils"?, how is healing the sick vanity, when Christ also says in Mark 16;18 that those that believe shall heal the sick ?, and how is prophesising vanity, when throughout Christian history its been a hallmark of those that believe and in particular relation to this thread, Acts 2:17 “In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.” – Acts 2:17, I have always read this bassage from Matthew 7 21:23 as indicating that although professed believers acted in a way that denotes the Love of God and neighbour, in fact that Love was not there, it was motivated by other forces, meaning that its not just what we say and do, but why we say and do it.

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

But if you read the "Sermon on the mount", what i call the "Blueprint for a Christian Life", together with Christs only depiction of the day of Judgement in Matthew 25, "The sheep and the Goats", and the principle of Love that must underlie ALL that we profess and do, then its so much more that looking after Orphans and Widows, of course thats a part of it, but our faith and our actions must encompass ALL of those suffering and marginalised in this evil and Corrupt world.

I don't agree. I do believe and see God ''going through the motions'' with us. He always properly explains Himself and is an open book for us to judge and examine.

But, you are missing the original point made. The original statement was a reply to you saying ''some churches are fine with homosexuality and others not''. This is a very good example to use as a case study of sin. If for example a child is brainwashed with this nonsense and passes the key age of 20, being a lot more accommodating and accepting of the sin. God considers this in His judgement of them.

Where did i ever say that "some churches are fine with Homosexuality and others not", although thats undoubtedly the case, the same as some churches are fine with having rich people in their congregations, others are fine with having people that support a President thats just cut Overseas aid to the poorest costing 14 million lives and untold suffering in the years to come, the same as some churches are fine with people that do little or nothing to alleviate the suffering in Gods world, the same as some churches care little or nothing about the destruction of gods creation our lifestyles encompass, seems to me theres lots that "some Churches" tolerate, not to mention "Some churches" having no problem with a President thats just increased the military budget to $1 Trillion while cutting support for the needy, yes its a screwed up world indeed. But God sees ALL, understands ALL and his Judgements are Righteous and Just.

However, at the same time, the following fact is also very true. When you give your life to Jesus, the Holy Spirit immediately starts working on you. He will convict you of all sin John 16:8-11. Whether you are more accustomed to it or not becomes completely and utterly irrelevant.

Again the problem of "giving your life to Jesus", who says you have , who makes that decision, is it yourself, and what if you think you have but in fact havent, does the holy Spirit work then?, seems to me the only indicator we have of whether or not "we've given our life to Jesus" is whether or not, we're trying to the best of our ability to follow ALL of the commandments he taught us, regardless of our social, political or moral views.
Give me your breakdown of John 16 8:11, as i dont see it as you do.

I was that person. All my friends were sexual sinners. It was my life. I said to God that if this sin gets me into hell then He made me for hell. I gave my life to Jesus as I saw how much He loves me. He showed my how much my sins upset Him and I stopped them.

On the subject of sin could i again ask if " in your opinion, is being Rich a Mortal or venial sin, is failing to hunger and thirst for Justice and kindness to those in need a mortal or venial sin, is leading a life built upon the use of fossil fuels and a diet built upon Animal Agriculture, both of which are the major drivers in destroying Gods creation, a Mortal or venial sin, and is the support of a President who cuts Overseas Aid leading to millions more deaths and huge suffering, massively increases Military spending, destroys Environmental protections and implements a harsh and brutal Immigration policy, a Mortal or Venial sin?

And also,

You speak 100% as they do. With your views, blanketing of sin, you would easily plug in to a pro homosexual ''Christian, cough cough cough'' church.

I'm interested to know more, what do "they" and myself speak like?, and what views and "blanketing of sin" do we share, and how does that enable me to "easily plug into a pro Homosexual, cough, cough, church",....... from your last comment about a "pro Homosexual cough, cough church" , i think youre implying that in your opinion those people are not in fact members of a "Church" and are not what you see as "real" Christians, and i would imagine that feeling would be reciprocated, so who are the "true Christians", and what in your opinion makes that so?.

Thanks.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thats what i believe Brother Nick, the fundamentally Evil and Corrupt nature of this world will remain until Christ returns and puts all to right. But that doesnt mean that we have no influence to make things better, albeit in a very small way, we can transform others lives and our own through Christs teaching and putting those teachings into practice. So although this world will not fundamentally change, our lives, and through our example, others lives, can change . We must be "the light of the world" and through our good works "others will see them and Glorify our Father in heaven". Matthew 28 18:20 is a call for a complete discipleship, in mind, body, spirit and action. We are called not only to make Disciples of others but to teach them ALL the commandments of Christ, which Christ succinctly summed up as "Loving God with all your mind, heart and Soul and your Neighbour as yourself".

You are better served in spreading the Gospel. It will either be accepted or rejected. This is where discipleship starts. You can share the same actions that can assigned to any non-believers' actions as well. You can name the religion, and they'll do what one would attribute to the "good works" of Christ, but without Jesus there is no foundation to which you will be able to move them from their unbelief.

I agree it is a complete work that one seeks in discipleship, but the starting line is and must be Jesus.

Our focus must be on both the actions of change and the avenue by which that everlasting change can take place. What better way of showing Christs love for the world than feeding the hungry, providing water for the thirsty, homes for the homeless, care for the sick, support for the prisoner and shelter for the stranger. Indeed we follow a Saviour that so identified with the poor and marginalised, the outcast and the refugee, that he said when you help them you help me and when you ignore them you ignore me. Spiritual and bodily help are not exclusive, but are interdependent, you cannot be a follower of Christ without the acceptance of him spiritually as your Lord and Saviour, and you cannot bodily accept Christ without being the implement of his Love and compassion in the World.

No. For the change that is everlasting comes through the power of God, who is the Holy Spirit! The concept of being sealed by the Holy Spirit conveys assurance, divine ownership, and protection. It marks believers as God’s own, guaranteeing their salvation and inheritance, and serves as a spiritual confirmation of their relationship with Christ. This seal is both a present reality and a promise of future redemption, providing comfort and confidence in the believer’s faith journey.

It does not mean that you don't do the very works that can be attributed to any of the other religions, and is done by other religions, but without the Gospel, they will not be moved to believe no matter what you do! But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? Romans 10:14

I have struggled with this concept for over 40 years Brother Nick, the seemingly ineffectiveness of Love and Compassion when faced with the harsh brutality of this world, i studied the Holocaust, read and saw the horrors of East Timor, the mindless brutality of the Khmer Rouge, the bloodbath that was central America in the 1980's, the atrocities of Saddam Hussains rule in Iraq and the 2 Gulf wars, the genocide in Rwanda to name just a few, and in the background always, the relentless toll of lives lost though Poverty, Hunger and Disease in a world of plenty. So many times i've called for military intervention to stop the killing and end the suffering, but know that every time i do i am in contravention of Christs commandment to "turn the other cheek", "to not resist Evil" and "to love my enemies", not blow them to Hell or wherever they may end up. For i could see no alternative, could see no other way of stopping the violence and bloodshed. But is my ignorance, is my earthly perception sufficient reason to ignore Christs commandments, will it be a defence when i stand before God to say, " But Lord ,your way just wasnt working"?, i think not. So as the Holy Spirit works within me, well hopefully it does, i must give up my perception of whats right and whats wrong and acquiesce to Christs teaching. I must "turn the other cheek", i must "not resist Evil" and i must "Love my Enemies", but if i was armed with a gun and faced with a killer about to execute women and children would i shoot him?, i probably would, to wound not kill, but i pray that God never puts me in that situation, and what of the murderous RSF thugs in Sudan, raping and murdering, alls i can say is i know what i should do as a Christian, a follower of Christ, but whether i would follow his teachings when faced with the reality of my actions, i really dont know.

You didn't even have to go so far afield to find the cruelty of man! I spent a couple of years in the UK, and toured a museum get this "Of Torture". They showed all the instruments that were used to torture people. Saints, witches, just plain old instruments created to try to change or illicit a confession from people! This is not unique to the UK either! Every nation, and I dare say "Every Nation" has had the ability and used it to do this to not only their own people, but others as well.

No, it doesn't mean you fail to do the commandments of Christ, because that is who we are in Christ. It also doesn't mean that our hearts do not weigh heavy at these atrocities. However, to expect anyone else to change because of them or by another way is to not understand why things are the way they are, and how sin affects/corrupts all things without Him. Even believers have difficulties in their lives because of sin, how much more the unbeliever who sees nothing wrong with it!

We'll keep going back to the law, which is what the Commandments of Christ Jesus are and what you are saying takes precedence over all else. Can one tell another to break the law, in order to fulfill another one? To give you an idea, do you know how many "unattended" children were let in during the Biden Administration? Do you know a conservative number of those the government has no idea what happened to them? This is what open borders without law does. Acceptable do you think??? By the way my heart and prayers go out to them...that number regardless of where your research takes you goes, will be in the hundreds of thousands!!!! Children!!! Adults and those with families, but unattended children and many even turned over to those who had no family relation to them either!!!! Sorry brother this is not what Christ Jesus wanted for us to do.

I agree we should do it as Christ has commanded us to do, but you can also do it in a way that allows for the law of the land to exist as well. They don't have to conflict. If you can't see this, then what you are saying is, that the loss of these innocent ones is acceptable, because we are just following the Commandments of Christ.

This is why we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Without which we are just lawless, and no different than the unbelieving sinner of any other religion that thinks they are doing what is right and willing to accept any consequences for the sake of what we believe is righteous and true.

As we draw closer to God, we see the sin in us/humanity all the more, yet all the more necessary to the day it is cast away from who we are in Christ Jesus one final time in complete submission as all barriers are done away with; to be raised up anew on that day, we need to keep living out Matthew 28:18-20. Everything else will fall into place—or not—as God wills, at the End of Days.

And i truly wish i could do that, but i know in my heart, as a wretched sinner, that there are, and always will be, so many barriers in my walk with God, which is why every night i pray for this world to end, not only for all the suffering, death and destruction that goes on in it but also for an an end to the wretched sinner i am and a rebirth anew to one at one with God, and free from sin and the lusts of this world.

That is why we have eternity! It is realizing that in our own power these barriers will not be brought down, but through the Power of God, they cannot stand!!! It does take time but keep bringing your petitions before the Throne of Mercy & Grace that one by one they will fall before His awesome power!

Also, don't pray as you are doing brother!!! Not for it to end, because you are then condemning an untold number to an eternity without Jesus! Pray that all may hear, even as we await faithfully the return of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ!!! According to scripture, we know that this world will eventually come to an end, and when it does, it will be at the perfect moment—His chosen time for it to happen.

That it tears at you all this pain & suffering understand it's because of sin. Also, know you are not the only one in this.
Struggling with Sin - Romans 7:14-25

I do so much love that text, for it speaks of endurance, of loyalty, of an everlasting love that this world cannot break, and the teaching is "to make Disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" and to teach these new Disciples "to obey ALL the commands i have given you". Its a teaching that embraces both the spiritual act of conversion and the physical act of putting that conversion into practice in the world. The reflection of our Love for God is our actions of Justice, Love and compassion in his world. Without those actions our Conversion will be incomplete and we will indeed be numbered amongst those that, although we profess Christ as our Saviour and do many good works, without Love and compassion, Christ will say, "I know you not".

Well said. \o/

Love you Brother Steve.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

You can summise thats what someones thinking, but how can you know, what if someone turned their head for a perfectly innocent reason and there was a "pretty woman in tight pants" as you put it, what then?,

Are you married? Will you divorce your wife if you catch her looking at a Baywatch actor for a bit too long on her phone?

then some thoughts will incur the same Heavenly punishment as the act itself, if they're not repented.

Nonsense! The bible is clear that God is just Job 34:12 and that punishment will match the crime Rom 2:6.

no, Matthew 5:32 is still there, but i think youre confusing Earthly and Heavenly judgement, read Matthew 5: 21-23, words and thoughts with an equivalent Heavenly judgement as the act itself,

You are not grasping Matt 5:32. It says unless their is actual adultery, do not divorce. Stop dancing.

I agree, ONLY God can truly Judge us, therefore our perception of whether we're "saved" or otherwise on this Earth is a judgement none of us can make, or do you believe you can foresee Gods judgement?. In short we do not know that we are a Christian until that final Judgement which is why, according to Christ, many that believed themselves "saved" are in fact lost, for they failed to follow Christs commandments to the best of their ability and built their houses upon shifting sands and not the solid rock of true belief.

Just because only God can truly judge and correctly sentence does not mean our ability to judge ourselves and others is of no value.

2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

Many do think they are saved and are not, correct. But you and I can judge for this. It's really not that hard. As Jesus says in Matt 7:16-18 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

How is casting out Demons Vanity when Christ says in Mark 16:17 that one of the signs of those that believe is to "Cast out Devils"?, how is healing the sick vanity, when Christ also says in Mark 16;18 that those that believe shall heal the sick ?, and how is prophesising vanity, when throughout Christian history its been a hallmark of those that believe and in particular relation to this thread, Acts 2:17 “In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.” – Acts 2:17, I have always read this bassage from Matthew 7 21:23 as indicating that although professed believers acted in a way that denotes the Love of God and neighbour, in fact that Love was not there, it was motivated by other forces, meaning that its not just what we say and do, but why we say and do it.

You can be both a good and bad Christian exorcising demons, healing the sick and prophesying.

But you can only be a good Christian following James 1:27.

Many are stepping foot inside Christianity for the blessings and power you can get from it. Power to cast out demons appeals to vanity. Helping an old widow change a light bulb does not.

But if you read the "Sermon on the mount", what i call the "Blueprint for a Christian Life", together with Christs only depiction of the day of Judgement in Matthew 25, "The sheep and the Goats", and the principle of Love that must underlie ALL that we profess and do, then its so much more that looking after Orphans and Widows, of course thats a part of it, but our faith and our actions must encompass ALL of those suffering and marginalised in this evil and Corrupt world.

We need to be careful here. Scripture is clear that we must love God first, and loving Him is following His commandments. His commandments are to preach the gospel to all and that gospel will cause many to hate you because His word exposes sin.

John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands.

Matt 22:37-38 Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.

Matt 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Love is not hugging a sexual sinner and saying ''don't worry, only God can judge our thoughts, you do you and I will do me''. Love is telling them that they are going to hell if they continue unrepentant in any sin. Especially mortal sin, sins that in the OT God ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for.

Where did i ever say that "some churches are fine with Homosexuality and others not", although thats undoubtedly the case, the same as some churches are fine with having rich people in their congregations, others are fine with having people that support a President thats just cut Overseas aid to the poorest costing 14 million lives and untold suffering in the years to come, the same as some churches are fine with people that do little or nothing to alleviate the suffering in Gods world, the same as some churches care little or nothing about the destruction of gods creation our lifestyles encompass, seems to me theres lots that "some Churches" tolerate, not to mention "Some churches" having no problem with a President thats just increased the military budget to $1 Trillion while cutting support for the needy, yes its a screwed up world indeed. But God sees ALL, understands ALL and his Judgements are Righteous and Just.

Don't group sins. Why do you keep doing this. Every item needs to be ring fenced and properly judged. Paul rebukes Christians that cannot judge matters better than the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9.

- Homosexual approval = 10/10
- Being rich = 0/10
- Being rich and not helping the needy when you are asked to = 0.5/10
- Increase defence spending when your country is the only active and useful country in the UN = 0/10.

If Iran nukes you, the homeless and poor won't be worrying about homes and food, I promise you that.

 

[KingJ]

Again the problem of "giving your life to Jesus", who says you have , who makes that decision, is it yourself, and what if you think you have but in fact havent, does the holy Spirit work then?, seems to me the only indicator we have of whether or not "we've given our life to Jesus" is whether or not, we're trying to the best of our ability to follow ALL of the commandments he taught us, regardless of our social, political or moral views.

Very good questions. You are challenging free will.

It was 100% my decision. God helps you only once you have given your heart to Him. Consider Rev 3:20, you need to open the door to Jesus before He comes in and works on you.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

For a good explanation on free will, please read the OP here - No Free Will - Officially Debunked!

Give me your breakdown of John 16 8:11, as i dont see it as you do

As I have said a number of times now, we must be very careful to read a passage in isolation. Many Calvinists take this passage and Rom 9:22 ''Potter and the clay'' to make the case that God cherry picks people for heaven. But every scripture outside of these says God does not. Which needs to influence the context of these contentious passages.

Example, Rom 9:22, Paul is making the point that God can make a vessel unto dishonour. He is God, He can do whatever He wants. But just because He can, does not mean He does. Every other scripture from Paul points to God choosing to do what is right only. Partiality is evil, pure evil and numerous scriptures clearly state that God is impartial Acts 10:34, Rom 2:11, gal 3:28 come to mind.

The context of John 16:8-11 is simply that the Holy Spirit is our helper. Once we make a decision from free will to serve Jesus, we get a much needed helper.

John 16:8-11 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment, of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more, of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

This requires quite a long explanation. I will try shorten it for you. High level, all mankind is convicted of their sin by their conscience, having high intelligence Heb 2:7 and the knowledge of good and evil Gen 3:22. 1 + 1 = 2.

But in scripture we see extra assistance and effort given by God to mankind.

A. At the time of Adam and Eve, God was with them.
B. After Adam and Eve are removed from the garden, we see God makes a literal visit to Cain. And Adam and Eve are able to share eyewitness testimonies with their offspring for 930 years.
C. After the flood we have Noah having a first hand, very literal encounter with God that he can share with his immediate offspring.
D. Then we see God choose Moses and he gives laws, many prophets and an arc of the covenant where high priests could hear instructions directly from God.
E. The Jews and their ways impacted all around them. Jonah (Jew) travelled to Nineveh (Non Jewish city) for example and told them to repent.

Jesus ushered in a new dispensation. One where mankind is to live by faith in an unseen God. For this, the Holy Spirit was / is needed.

 

[KingJ]

On the subject of sin could i again ask if " in your opinion, is being Rich a Mortal or venial sin,

Neither.

is failing to hunger and thirst for Justice and kindness to those in need a mortal or venial sin

You would have to give actual examples of what you mean.

, is leading a life built upon the use of fossil fuels

All sin can be traced to someone being hurt. If we are knowingly hurting someone, that is sinful. The intention and degree of suffering can be either mortal or venial. You would have to give actual examples.

I do agree that people need to become more informed on climate control. If you are, and still do certain things you can and should avoid, sure there is sin that we can judge ourselves for. I am not against climate control. I do believe we are harming the environment.

If you live in a city like New Delhi for example, you are guilty of sinning against others if you don't do your part to control that thick haze in the air. If people can die from it, it can be a mortal sin.

and a diet built upon Animal Agriculture, both of which are the major drivers in destroying Gods creation,

There are scenarios where many are guilty of cruelty to animals and then those where they are not. God did give us animals for our consumption.

Eating animals is destroying God's creation? How so?

and is the support of a President who cuts Overseas Aid leading to millions more deaths and huge suffering, massively increases Military spending, destroys Environmental protections and implements a harsh and brutal Immigration policy, a Mortal or Venial sin?

Aid is a crazy topic. Elon Musk said that it is a lot more complicated then people realize. 'Show me an aid foundation that is not corrupt'.

I believe in teaching people to fish.

Military spending is a must if you have enemies also spending.

Is America's immigration policy harsh and brutal? I don't think it is. They don't have a policy problem, their policies are pretty much the same as all other countries. America has a criminal problem.

And also,

I'm interested to know more, what do "they" and myself speak like?, and what views and "blanketing of sin" do we share, and how does that enable me to "easily plug into a pro Homosexual, cough, cough, church",....... from your last comment about a "pro Homosexual cough, cough church" , i think youre implying that in your opinion those people are not in fact members of a "Church" and are not what you see as "real" Christians, and i would imagine that feeling would be reciprocated, so who are the "true Christians", and what in your opinion makes that so?.

People who sin and enjoy it want to live peacefully in it. You don't want to be harassed and told that you are going to hell. People in mortal sins therefore love quoting Matt 5:28 in isolation to all other scripture. ''We are all sinners, we all deserve hell, God sees my heart somewhere somehow, don't judge me, judge yourself'''

When John the Baptist saw Herod in an adulterous marriage (mortal sin), he voiced his disagreement and lost his head. He did not speak to Herod about his thoughts of adultery.

Many will keep quiet as they don't want to offend anyone or they themselves want to live in their own sin. A Christian cannot keep quiet. That is a sign you are a Christian.

When you blanket sin, you are not a Christian. Not a John the Baptist. You are a false teacher.

 

[Rad]

You are better served in spreading the Gospel. It will either be accepted or rejected. This is where discipleship starts. You can share the same actions that can assigned to any non-believers' actions as well. You can name the religion, and they'll do what one would attribute to the "good works" of Christ, but without Jesus there is no foundation to which you will be able to move them from their unbelief.

I agree it is a complete work that one seeks in discipleship, but the starting line is and must be Jesus.

I agree, but we must live what we share, and what better way to spread the Gospel, the Good news, than to let our good works shine before men and so glorify our Father in Heaven,......... and that of course leads to the Question, what Gospel do we share?, for there are so many different branches of Christianity, all supposedly preaching the "truth" as they see it. Its important at all times to question our faith and if needs be to change our views if they are shown to be false.

No. For the change that is everlasting comes through the power of God, who is the Holy Spirit! The concept of being sealed by the Holy Spirit conveys assurance, divine ownership, and protection. It marks believers as God’s own, guaranteeing their salvation and inheritance, and serves as a spiritual confirmation of their relationship with Christ. This seal is both a present reality and a promise of future redemption, providing comfort and confidence in the believer’s faith journey.

It does not mean that you don't do the very works that can be attributed to any of the other religions, and is done by other religions, but without the Gospel, they will not be moved to believe no matter what you do! But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? Romans 10:14

It seems to me that we must do the good works commanded by Christ to have any claim to be a follower of his. The whole of the Sermon on the Mount is a discourse on how, in a practical way, we should lead our lives, and without that as the rock on which our own faith is built , we can't share the good news with others.

You didn't even have to go so far afield to find the cruelty of man! I spent a couple of years in the UK, and toured a museum get this "Of Torture". They showed all the instruments that were used to torture people. Saints, witches, just plain old instruments created to try to change or illicit a confession from people! This is not unique to the UK either! Every nation, and I dare say "Every Nation" has had the ability and used it to do this to not only their own people, but others as well.

And many of those that committed such atrocities believed they were acting in fulfillment of Gods will, or used that as a justification for their actions, This is why its so important to question our beliefs and actions, and to justify them in view of Christs commandments to us, for we too may be following the false teachings of false prophets.

No, it doesn't mean you fail to do the commandments of Christ, because that is who we are in Christ. It also doesn't mean that our hearts do not weigh heavy at these atrocities. However, to expect anyone else to change because of them or by another way is to not understand why things are the way they are, and how sin affects/corrupts all things without Him. Even believers have difficulties in their lives because of sin, how much more the unbeliever who sees nothing wrong with it!

We'll keep going back to the law, which is what the Commandments of Christ Jesus are and what you are saying takes precedence over all else. Can one tell another to break the law, in order to fulfill another one? To give you an idea, do you know how many "unattended" children were let in during the Biden Administration? Do you know a conservative number of those the government has no idea what happened to them? This is what open borders without law does. Acceptable do you think??? By the way my heart and prayers go out to them...that number regardless of where your research takes you goes, will be in the hundreds of thousands!!!! Children!!! Adults and those with families, but unattended children and many even turned over to those who had no family relation to them either!!!! Sorry brother this is not what Christ Jesus wanted for us to do.

Yes i believe you can break a man made law in order to comply with Christs commandments, in fact i believe as a Christian you have a duty to do so. I think the example of Anne Frank illustrates this, yes i know i've asked a number of times before but i dont think you've answered, so,..... the man that informed on Anne Frank and her family and led to them being murdered by the Nazis was obeying the law, those that sheltered Anne Frank and her family were breaking the law , which one do you think God would condemn, the Law Breaker, or the Law abider?.
On the subject of Immigration, you have to ask yourself why are all those people fleeing their own country?, most of them will be leaving their own country in search of a better life, to escape the poverty and violence that permeates their own societies, and its not just the US, all across the world there is a migration from areas of poverty and violence to areas of wealth and safety, here in the UK we have a rising wave of anti immigrant sentiment fuelled by a large influx of refugees and others from across the world,.
So what should the Christian response be to this, for myself its simple, we treat others as we'd want to be treated, we love our neighbour as ourselves and if Christ can indeed be seen in the form of the "stranger" , then though our love for him we "take him in",.
But this mass migration is but a symptom of an unjust and evil world, a world where the rich live in comparative wealth and comfort while billions struggle just to survive, where wars are fought in poor countries by proxy on behalf of the powerful, where Climate Change, caused by the lifestyles of the rich , is devastating the lives of the poor and where an unjust trading system ensures the profits of trade accrue to the already wealthy. So until we address these injustices the issue of mass migration will continue, and the more we impose harsher anti immigration policies, the further we stray from Christs love.

I agree we should do it as Christ has commanded us to do, but you can also do it in a way that allows for the law of the land to exist as well. They don't have to conflict. If you can't see this, then what you are saying is, that the loss of these innocent ones is acceptable, because we are just following the Commandments of Christ.

This is why we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Without which we are just lawless, and no different than the unbelieving sinner of any other religion that thinks they are doing what is right and willing to accept any consequences for the sake of what we believe is righteous and true.

I agree, there are many laws that dont conflict with Christs commandments, but where they do we must follow Christs teachings, and i dont believe the Holy Spirit plays any part in harsh anti immigration laws, the Holy Spirit calls us to "Take the stranger in" and to love our neighbour as ourselves, to do any less is to be numbered amongst the "Goats" and not the "Sheep".

That is why we have eternity! It is realizing that in our own power these barriers will not be brought down, but through the Power of God, they cannot stand!!! It does take time but keep bringing your petitions before the Throne of Mercy & Grace that one by one they will fall before His awesome power!

Also, don't pray as you are doing brother!!! Not for it to end, because you are then condemning an untold number to an eternity without Jesus! Pray that all may hear, even as we await faithfully the return of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ!!! According to scripture, we know that this world will eventually come to an end, and when it does, it will be at the perfect moment—His chosen time for it to happen.

That it tears at you all this pain & suffering understand it's because of sin. Also, know you are not the only one in this.
Struggling with Sin - Romans 7:14-25

Thank you Brother Nick for those words of encouragement, it is indeed a hard and narrow road we try to tread and the sufferings of this world often lie heavy on my heart, but we are told that Blessed are those that mourn, that hunger for Righteousness sake, that are persecuted for righteousness' sake, and its perhaps a sign of weakness that i long for an end to this world, for as you say, it will come in Gods good time, and when it does many will be condemned to Hell. That again is something that has been on my mind the last few weeks and i often feel like i'm between a rock and a hard place, but as i've said before , whoever said that being a follower of Christ would be easy!.

Well said. \o/

Love you Brother Steve.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

With the love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

 

[Christ4Ever]

I agree, but we must live what we share, and what better way to spread the Gospel, the Good news, than to let our good works shine before men and so glorify our Father in Heaven,......... and that of course leads to the Question, what Gospel do we share?, for there are so many different branches of Christianity, all supposedly preaching the "truth" as they see it. Its important at all times to question our faith and if needs be to change our views if they are shown to be false.

As long as you are spreading the Gospel it's an Amen!
As far as many branches of Christianity, there is only one Savior and He is Jesus. Without Him there is no Christian faith, and no salvation, much less a Gospel. Born died raised for the sins of the world. Romans road works well, and no matter which scripture translation you look at it to, it reads the same. How you discipleship them then, can have wide conjecture, but stick to the Bible, and them sealed by the Holy Spirit, will in prayer be led right as they also led others.

It seems to me that we must do the good works commanded by Christ to have any claim to be a follower of his. The whole of the Sermon on the Mount is a discourse on how, in a practical way, we should lead our lives, and without that as the rock on which our own faith is built , we can't share the good news with others.

Agreed, but it comes by the Holy Spirit that changes us, provides us counsel into doing His will. The Word of God, will confirm the rightness of what you are prompted to do. 1 John 4 is for those who are not quite sure of His voice, but eventually you will be. In time familiarity will breed a relationship that confirms friend from foe.

The good works do not lead us to Him, but rather He draws us to Him for those good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

And many of those that committed such atrocities believed they were acting in fulfillment of Gods will, or used that as a justification for their actions, This is why its so important to question our beliefs and actions, and to justify them in view of Christs commandments to us, for we too may be following the false teachings of false prophets.

That is why we hold them against the entirety of the Word of God and continue to grow in the knowledge of it. You'll find most false teaching will pick the verses that go along with their dogma, and disregard/excuse the ones that goes against it. It's like Salvation by Works vs Grace. It's a battle that will continue until that day of His return.

Yes i believe you can break a man made law in order to comply with Christs commandments, in fact i believe as a Christian you have a duty to do so.

I don't, at least not work actively against the law that is given to them by God to institute, which is what I see that you are doing. I know you don't see it or agree with the perspective of Brother Johnson in how he explained each institution established by God, which is your right, but it doesn't make it the manner you are using against it right either. For what you suggest is not living in peace but creates adversity/conflict and harms more then it helps. If the system created has a method by which change can happen, and it does exist here in the USA, then you allow for it to happen. I won't go over again how you are working against this, because as you know only external resistance is available to you, for you are not part of the system of governance. Which sadly, makes you an enemy of this country, even though you may be a brother in Christ. For what you do is subversion, and that I do not see where Christ says is a method by which we should apply to illicit change. Otherwise, what you believe in is Dominionism, though your words would say you reject this.

I think the example of Anne Frank illustrates this, yes i know i've asked a number of times before but i dont think you've answered, so,..... the man that informed on Anne Frank and her family and led to them being murdered by the Nazis was obeying the law, those that sheltered Anne Frank and her family were breaking the law , which one do you think God would condemn, the Law Breaker, or the Law abider?.
On the subject of Immigration, you have to ask yourself why are all those people fleeing their own country?, most of them will be leaving their own country in search of a better life, to escape the poverty and violence that permeates their own societies, and its not just the US, all across the world there is a migration from areas of poverty and violence to areas of wealth and safety, here in the UK we have a rising wave of anti immigrant sentiment fuelled by a large influx of refugees and others from across the world,.

I won't go over again on the Anne Frank illustration, for in truth you do not know how God would determine that case. There is more than either you or I know to what happened, or would have happened, if the law had been followed by her and others. You see death as finite once and it is over; from scripture it is eternal through Christ Jesus. You see an end; I see just a beginning. Put it against the prophecies of end of days, and regardless of what you think, you are working towards it and are not delaying it, if you believe breaking a law is a righteous act.

A better life??? Only through Jesus Christ is there life, which is eternal. Our Lord has said that in this world we would be faced with trials and tribulations. Even though He has overcome the world, but people who are running away from what is happening there in their own country to what they believer is a better life, will still find the trials & tribulations wherever they go! There is no escape from it brother, though you seem to believe there is.

Yes, the UK has issues, because instead of doing it in an orderly fashion they overloaded a system that could not handle the millions they let in at a very short interval. If they had followed the immigration numbers done previously to continue, they could have absorbed them, and it would not have created the issues that you see happening now!

The same in the US! Instead of doing it in an organized fashion to allow integration to the existing culture, they pushed in a number which I believe was about 20 million, in such a short time period, that the system could not handle it, and so the conflict has happened and continues to happen. Oh, and it was not done to help the people, but to change the political landscape! You'd have to understand the USA politics to know why this was so, but that's another story!

I agree, there are many laws that dont conflict with Christs commandments, but where they do we must follow Christs teachings, and i dont believe the Holy Spirit plays any part in harsh anti immigration laws, the Holy Spirit calls us to "Take the stranger in" and to love our neighbour as ourselves, to do any less is to be numbered amongst the "Goats" and not the "Sheep".

Therein is the problem, which is change fast enough to allow it to be orderly instead of chaotic. Impatient of wanting it "now" a problem with our society, and the inability to work patiently towards an end that allows for the change, at the same time without the chaos that ensues when it is rushed. Yes, you can love them, at the same time loving them that you want what's best for them, and not what we think is best for them, while according that it's God's will for them, when in truth we are only assuming it to be now and not sometime in the future, as yet undetermined. Also, are we loving one over the other in how we seek to do things? If in helping one, we harm another, are we in truth helping either one in the way that God wants us to and are we qualified to know when our desire to do good instead harms?

Thank you Brother Nick for those words of encouragement, it is indeed a hard and narrow road we try to tread and the sufferings of this world often lie heavy on my heart, but we are told that Blessed are those that mourn, that hunger for Righteousness sake, that are persecuted for righteousness' sake, and its perhaps a sign of weakness that i long for an end to this world, for as you say, it will come in Gods good time, and when it does many will be condemned to Hell. That again is something that has been on my mind the last few weeks and i often feel like i'm between a rock and a hard place, but as i've said before , whoever said that being a follower of Christ would be easy!.

Rest easy brother. In Christ is the Rock upon which you stand! His victory is ours as well, and for that we see, and shout "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Trusting in Him, in His Time, forever! So, don't be troubled.

With the Love of Christ Jesus my dear brother in Christ Steve.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><




give all the Glory, Honor, and Praise to Him who sits on the Throne!

 

[Twistie]

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and hewn them out cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.”

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Hope all's well

(⁠｡⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠｡⁠)

 

[Rad]

Are you married? Will you divorce your wife if you catch her looking at a Baywatch actor for a bit too long on her phone?

Probably not, but if she confessed to having adulterous thoughts about this "Baywatch Actor", then things might be a little tense between us, but you miss the point. i'm not talking of earthly judgement but Heavenly Judgement, if we have THOUGHTS of adultery then we have already COMMITTED adultery in our hearts and will be judged accordingly.

Nonsense! The bible is clear that God is just Job 34:12 and that punishment will match the crime Rom 2:6.

Please read Matthew 5 21:24 again, Christ expands the law from the act of killing to being angry or words of anger and contempt, and they BOTH receive the same punishment.

You are not grasping Matt 5:32. It says unless their is actual adultery, do not divorce. Stop dancing.

We're just not going to agree on this so i'm gonna call it a day, but one last question, Hitler, who never to my knowledge ever actually killed anyone himself , through his thoughts, his writings and his words, inspired one of the most Evil regimes in history and the greatest act of Genocide, in your opinion, is he less culpable than an SS guard who actually took part in the mass killings himself?.

Just because only God can truly judge and correctly sentence does not mean our ability to judge ourselves and others is of no value.

2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

And how many Fail that test themselves?, obviously not the many that professed Christ but to whom he said "I know you not", and perhaps also many of those that ignored Christ amongst the hungry, thirsty, sick, imprisoned and the immigrant, and were sent away numbering amongst "The Goats". I think we all like to believe we're in the "truth", all like to believe that our faith is true, but if you believe Christs words then we cant all be right, in fact many of us will be wrong.

Many do think they are saved and are not, correct. But you and I can judge for this. It's really not that hard. As Jesus says in Matt 7:16-18 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

But then the issue becomes who assesses what is "Good Fruit" and what is "Bad Fruit", i would imagine from your comments that your assessment of whats good and bad , what is acceptable based on the teachings of Christ, differs greatly from mine, you probably see me as a bearer of "Bad fruit", and i see the same in you, so while we can make a very limited judgement of ourselves and others, we need to do so in a spirit of humility aware of our manifest failings .

You can be both a good and bad Christian exorcising demons, healing the sick and prophesying.

But you can only be a good Christian following James 1:27.

Many are stepping foot inside Christianity for the blessings and power you can get from it. Power to cast out demons appeals to vanity. Helping an old widow change a light bulb does not.

Youre wrong, people do things for many reasons, to change the Light bulb for a widow may be an act of charity, or it may be an act designed to show just how humble the giver is, how Christ like are their actions, dont be fooled into thinking that because someone helps "Widows and Orphans" that automatically makes them a true believer. One thing i've learnt over the years is people rarely appear as they are, we are so good at putting on an image of what we want others to see, But God sees ALL, all our pretences are stripped away and his judgement is Righteous and everlasting.

We need to be careful here. Scripture is clear that we must love God first, and loving Him is following His commandments. His commandments are to preach the gospel to all and that gospel will cause many to hate you because His word exposes sin.

"and the second is likewise, To Love your Neighbour as yourself. ALL of the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments, Matthew 22 36:40,...... these are the TWO greatest Commandments., you cant Love God without Loving your Neighbour, especially those in need, as evidenced in the Parable of the Good Samaritan and The "Sheep and the Goats", where Christ so identified with the poor and the oppressed that he said when you help them you help him.

John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands.

Matt 22:37-38 Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.

Matt 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Love is not hugging a sexual sinner and saying ''don't worry, only God can judge our thoughts, you do you and I will do me''. Love is telling them that they are going to hell if they continue unrepentant in any sin. Especially mortal sin, sins that in the OT God ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for.

Love is recognising that its only through Gods Grace that we arent ALL sent to Hell, to recognise our own sins and act with Humility and Compassion when confronting others about their sins, Christ reserved some of his greatest condemnations for those that were assured of their own righteousness and only too readily condemned the sins of others .

Don't group sins. Why do you keep doing this. Every item needs to be ring fenced and properly judged. Paul rebukes Christians that cannot judge matters better than the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9

I didnt "group sin", i gave a list of comparisons of sins that other Churches seem to tolerate while condemning others for tolerating the sin of homosexuality. But there we have it again, for who amongst us is assured of their faith, of their Christianity and their salvation and who amongst us can be assured that even the worst "sinner" will go to Hell, for as Christ said " With God EVERYTHING is possible", for if God is indeed God, then that must surely be the case.

.

- Homosexual approval = 10/10
- Being rich = 0/10
- Being rich and not helping the needy when you are asked to = 0.5/10
- Increase defence spending when your country is the only active and useful country in the UN = 0/10.

I think the issue of "Rich Christians" deserves a separate thread, as does helping those in need, i'll get one posted and we can continue it there, but its interesting to see your sin rating for each.

If Iran nukes you, the homeless and poor won't be worrying about homes and food, I promise you that.

Iran doesnt even have a nuclear weapon so thats gonna be kind of hard to do, and even if it did, you think it would strike at the US given the fact the US has thousands of such weapons, look at North Korea, hardly a "stable" regime, run by a despotic and brutal dictator, they have nuclear weapons but have they ever fired a nuclear weapon at anyone?, What we have atm is a massive "Overkill" potential, a capability to destroy the Earth hundreds of times over, yet still we spend trillions of dollars every year on more weapons while cutting back on Overseas Aid programmes to help the poorest who are suffering in their hundreds of millions and dying in their millions every year. You really think thats echoing Gods priorities and is registering a 0 on his scale of sin?.
And i would be interested to know how the US is the "only active and useful country in the UN"?, from a Christian perspective of course.

 

[Twistie]

If I understand this stinking thinking rad is suggesting that we should allow the murders and rapist n the theives n all the rest of the evil keep doing it n we should tell the victims it's ok that they raped or what ya because god said forgive..
N if the one who got raped or whatever needs to swallow that n if they don't they are being evil..

Lord put Laws for a reason

This rad preaches a different gospel..

I'm j.s. he is very twisted n very dangerous like I said before

Hope all's well..

Who knows the Lord may call him yet..as of now idk what Spirit he got in him but it is not the Holy one that is for sure

I've really been working on saying things nice frfr..

乁⁠[⁠ ⁠◕⁠ ⁠ᴥ⁠ ⁠◕⁠ ⁠]⁠ㄏ

 

[KingJ]

Probably not, but if she confessed to having adulterous thoughts about this "Baywatch Actor", then things might be a little tense between us, but you miss the point. i'm not talking of earthly judgement but Heavenly Judgement, if we have THOUGHTS of adultery then we have already COMMITTED adultery in our hearts and will be judged accordingly.

God judges righteously and according to the sin Psalm 7:11.

So, its a no, no you will not divorce your wife. Thank you, some honesty for a change.

Please read Matthew 5 21:24 again, Christ expands the law from the act of killing to being angry or words of anger and contempt, and they BOTH receive the same punishment.

No Rad, you need to read it again. Being subject to judgement is not the same as equal sentences / punishment for a sin.

We're just not going to agree on this so i'm gonna call it a day, but one last question, Hitler, who never to my knowledge ever actually killed anyone himself , through his thoughts, his writings and his words, inspired one of the most Evil regimes in history and the greatest act of Genocide, in your opinion, is he less culpable than an SS guard who actually took part in the mass killings himself?.

We won't agree because you are unteachable. You are holding onto a straw with all your might.

Hitler signed off on the orders to do many of the atrocities committed. He did also not try stop what was taking place when he knew it was happening. So, yes, he is very guilty of the sins committed. DUH?

And how many Fail that test themselves?,

I don't think you understand the test. The test is not ''do I have sin'. The test is ''do I hate sin and if so, am I battling only with venial sins? Sins that do not show a depth of intent for love of what is evil''.

But then the issue becomes who assesses what is "Good Fruit" and what is "Bad Fruit", i would imagine from your comments that your assessment of whats good and bad , what is acceptable based on the teachings of Christ, differs greatly from mine, you probably see me as a bearer of "Bad fruit", and i see the same in you, so while we can make a very limited judgement of ourselves and others, we need to do so in a spirit of humility aware of our manifest failings .

What crock. Good = helping others. God first. Bad = hurting others.

We BOTH have a working brain that can discern this. God gave both of us eyes to see someone suffering. Ears to hear their cries. And hands to help them. We are by design able to fully grasp good and evil.

Youre wrong, people do things for many reasons, to change the Light bulb for a widow may be an act of charity, or it may be an act designed to show just how humble the giver is, how Christ like are their actions, dont be fooled into thinking that because someone helps "Widows and Orphans" that automatically makes them a true believer. One thing i've learnt over the years is people rarely appear as they are, we are so good at putting on an image of what we want others to see, But God sees ALL, all our pretences are stripped away and his judgement is Righteous and everlasting.

What crock. It is impossible to be evil if you are taking time out of your day to go help an old lady change a light bulb.

"and the second is likewise, To Love your Neighbour as yourself. ALL of the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments, Matthew 22 36:40,...... these are the TWO greatest Commandments., you cant Love God without Loving your Neighbour, especially those in need, as evidenced in the Parable of the Good Samaritan and The "Sheep and the Goats", where Christ so identified with the poor and the oppressed that he said when you help them you help him.

The second is the SECOND. Stop playing with words. Our devotion is to God first and then others.

Love is recognising that its only through Gods Grace that we arent ALL sent to Hell, to recognise our own sins and act with Humility and Compassion when confronting others about their sins, Christ reserved some of his greatest condemnations for those that were assured of their own righteousness and only too readily condemned the sins of others .

What crock.

You are sounding like a Calvinist. Before Christianity and Jesus, people got themselves into paradise by repenting of their sins. Hating what is evil over loving it.

I didnt "group sin", i gave a list of comparisons of sins that other Churches seem to tolerate while condemning others for tolerating the sin of homosexuality. But there we have it again, for who amongst us is assured of their faith, of their Christianity and their salvation and who amongst us can be assured that even the worst "sinner" will go to Hell, for as Christ said " With God EVERYTHING is possible", for if God is indeed God, then that must surely be the case.

There we go, I knew you were pro LGBTQ++. Please read this slowly. You are being intellectually dishonest and coming off as a troll.

All unrepentant sinners will go to hell. All repentant sinners will go to heaven. A sign that you are a repentant sinner is being unable to commit those sins that God hates so much that He ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for them. DUH?

Iran doesnt even have a nuclear weapon so thats gonna be kind of hard to do, and even if it did, you think it would strike at the US given the fact the US has thousands of such weapons, look at North Korea, hardly a "stable" regime,

Rad - The US spending lots of money on weapons is evil. They should rather help rich and poor.
KingJ - They have to, if a country like Iran got nukes, we are all dead. Even rich and poor.
Rad - The US has lots of weapons so they don't have to be afraid and Iran doesn't have nukes yet.
KingJ - Speechless

 

[Rad]

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and hewn them out cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.”

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Hope all's well

(⁠｡⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠｡⁠)

Jesua888 quoted Acts 5:29, heres an interpretation of its meaning,

What Does Acts 5:29 Mean?​

Acts 5:29 is a powerful declaration made by the apostles, particularly Peter, during a time of severe persecution and opposition from the religious leaders of the day. This verse highlights a fundamental principle of faith: the supremacy of divine authority over human authority. In this particular instance, Peter and the other apostles faced a choice. The high priest and the Sanhedrin, the ruling body of Jewish leaders, had commanded them to stop preaching about Jesus. However, the apostles understood that their mission came directly from God, making their obedience to Him paramount. They recognized that the call to spread the Gospel and proclaim the truth of Jesus was non-negotiable, even in the face of persecution. This verse resonates deeply with us today, encouraging us to prioritize our obedience to God above all else, especially when human authority contradicts His will.

So we are called on to obey the civil authorities, unless by obeying them, that would force us to break Gods Commandments, its as simple as that. For example, if you lived in a country where it was forbidden to perform Christian worship would you obey that order?, or if a law was passed in the US making it a crime not to inform on the whereabouts of an illegal immigrant, would you obey that, 2 situations where, depending on your interpretation of Christs commandments and your own moral values, you would be forced to break the law.

 

[Rad]

If I understand this stinking thinking rad is suggesting that we should allow the murders and rapist n the theives n all the rest of the evil keep doing it n we should tell the victims it's ok that they raped or what ya because god said forgive..
N if the one who got raped or whatever needs to swallow that n if they don't they are being evil..

Theres 3 reasons you might think this, firstly, that i've said "that we should allow the murders and rapist n the theives n all the rest of the evil keep doing it n we should tell the victims it's ok that they raped or what ya because god said forgive", in which case i'd like you to quote where ive actually said that, ..........or secondly , youve misunderstood what i'm saying ,in which case i'll reiterate my position, i believe that Rapists , murderers and others that break the law should be imprisoned, although my definition of "breaking the law" is probably different to yours, case in point, someone who kills someone in the US can either be executed, which i disagree with, or sentenced to life imprisonment, but a President who orders cuts in overseas aid that will cost the lives of 14 million of the poorest men, women and children faces no earthly sanction, or who orders the bombing of another country risking a regional war that could cost the lives of thousands, or who supports a genocidal campaign by supplying weapons to the killers and financial support, faces no earthly sanction, what i'm saying here is that the Justice system is screwed up, its run by sinners and passes judgement on other sinners, yes we need a judicial system, but it must always be borne in mind the evil and the injustice that we allow to continue unpunished because sinful men have deemed that activity "legal", hope thats clear, just one last thing, i believe that the support for victims of crime should have better access to support and that prisons should concentrate on rehabilitation through education and work opportunities, there will always be the few that cant be released but for the vast majority of prisoners, being given a good second chance should drastically cut their reoffending rates, ..........or thirdly, you do understand my position but have twisted it to suit your own ends, only you know the answer to these questions and i would appreciate an honest answer. ..

Lord put Laws for a reason

This rad preaches a different gospel..

I'm j.s. he is very twisted n very dangerous like I said before

The Lord does "put Laws for a reason", and what is the basis of those Laws, "To Love the lord your God with ALL your mind, body and Soul and your neighbour as yourself", i'd be interested to know just how i "preach a different gospel" and just what it is that makes me "twisted and very dangerous"?

Hope all's well..

Who knows the Lord may call him yet..as of now idk what Spirit he got in him but it is not the Holy one that is for sure

So youre sure i dont have the Holy Spirit within me, are you therefore implying that whatever spirit is within me is probably Evil, well ive gotta say, that if youre an example of what you think constitutes having the Holy Spirit within them then i'm glad you think i havent. Ive also gotta say i see little that is Loving, compassionate, merciful or just in the things you say, little that is Christ like, but thats just my opinion and i may be way off the mark, ,and perhaps, like we all should, you should sometimes try a little humility and understand that you also, just might be wrong.

I've really been working on saying things nice frfr..

Hmmm, if this is "saying things nice", i think youve got a bit more work to do.

乁⁠[⁠ ⁠◕⁠ ⁠ᴥ⁠ ⁠◕⁠ ⁠]⁠ㄏ

 

[Twistie]

Jesua888 quoted Acts 5:29, heres an interpretation of its meaning,

What Does Acts 5:29 Mean?​

Acts 5:29 is a powerful declaration made by the apostles, particularly Peter, during a time of severe persecution and opposition from the religious leaders of the day. This verse highlights a fundamental principle of faith: the supremacy of divine authority over human authority. In this particular instance, Peter and the other apostles faced a choice. The high priest and the Sanhedrin, the ruling body of Jewish leaders, had commanded them to stop preaching about Jesus. However, the apostles understood that their mission came directly from God, making their obedience to Him paramount. They recognized that the call to spread the Gospel and proclaim the truth of Jesus was non-negotiable, even in the face of persecution. This verse resonates deeply with us today, encouraging us to prioritize our obedience to God above all else, especially when human authority contradicts His will.

So we are called on to obey the civil authorities, unless by obeying them, that would force us to break Gods Commandments, its as simple as that. For example, if you lived in a country where it was forbidden to perform Christian worship would you obey that order?, or if a law was passed in the US making it a crime not to inform on the whereabouts of an illegal immigrant, would you obey that, 2 situations where, depending on your interpretation of Christs commandments and your own moral values, you would be forced to break the law.

If any preaches a different Gospel let him be cursed..your evil your fruits show it your pro help the assailant n pro making the victim suffer..
Using the Word for your evil agenda..sound like blasphemy to the Holy Spirit..that is unforgivable

Even Satan new the Word
(⁠｡⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠｡⁠)

 

[Rad]

Neither.

So if its not a sin to be Rich , then why in the Parable of the Rich ruler , Luke 18 18:27, did Christ say, " How hard it shall be for those that have riches to enter the Kingdom of heaven,,,, for it is easier for a Camel to go through the Eye of a Needle than a rich man enter Heaven" which is just one of so many examples of Christ condemning the Rich, and conversely exalting the poor as he also does in Luke 6:20 " Blessed are you poor, for yours is the Kingdom of heaven" and Luke 6: 24 " Woe unto you that are rich for you have received your consolation", a message that was repeated in the Parable of " Lazarus and the Rich man" in Luke 16 19:31.

You would have to give actual examples of what you mean.

So kindness, or mercy, would be seen in the parable of the Sheep and the Goats where Christ spoke of feeding the hungry, curing the sick, visiting the imprisoned, providing water for the thirsty and taking in the stranger, Justice would be fighting against the systems that enable such situations to come about, for people to go hungry in a world of plentiful food, for people to lack medical care when we have the ability to cure most illnesses, when people suffer from a lack of clean water while we live on a planet 2/3 of which is covered by water miles deep, when millions languish in prisons and detention centres, often unjustly detained, harshly treated and abused while those responsible for far greater crimes walk free, where those seeking sanctuary and a better life are abused and persecuted rather than welcomed as "the stranger" they are and where the root causes of that mass migration are not tackled..

All sin can be traced to someone being hurt. If we are knowingly hurting someone, that is sinful. The intention and degree of suffering can be either mortal or venial. You would have to give actual examples.

I do agree that people need to become more informed on climate control. If you are, and still do certain things you can and should avoid, sure there is sin that we can judge ourselves for. I am not against climate control. I do believe we are harming the environment.

If you live in a city like New Delhi for example, you are guilty of sinning against others if you don't do your part to control that thick haze in the air. If people can die from it, it can be a mortal sin.

We've known about the probable causes and effects of Climate change for decades now, indeed the Oil company scientists themselves were flagging up the dangers of burning fossil fuels as far back as the late 1970's, but that info was supressed by the Oil companies in their pursuit of profit ,but since the early 2000's the effects and causes have been there for all to see, we are now living in a time of consequences, of longer and more intense heatwaves, longer and more intense Droughts, Crop failures, Floods, increasingly severe storms and Hurricanes, wildfires, Ice caps melting, sea levels rising and increasing acidification of Oceans due to massive absorption of CO2 as we pump more than 38 billion tons of the gas into the atmosphere in 2025. This is having a devastating effect on people, especially in poor countries where they rely on their own crops to survive. In Kenya, Ethiopia and Somalia atm millions are facing starvation as the region enters its 4th year of drought caused, scientists say, by climate change. Predictions are that by mid century large swathes of Africa and southern Europe as well as large parts of S E Asia will become increasingly uninhabitable,......... and we are looking at an increase of perhaps 3-4 degrees C by the end of the Century, Bearing in mind atm the Global Temperature increase is only 1.5 degrees C and it took only a 3-4 Degree C drop to cause the last ice age, reverse that and you can get an idea of the devastation thats coming. and thats in the main due to how we, in the rich world, choose to live, how do you think God is going to judge each of us for knowingly contributing to the destruction of his world?......

 

[Twistie]

Anyone see this

 

[Brad Huber]

Anyone see this

while I dont like or trust AI, I dont see anything in the video about Kushner

 

[Rad]

There are scenarios where many are guilty of cruelty to animals and then those where they are not. God did give us animals for our consumption.

Eating animals is destroying God's creation? How so?

Yes God did give us animals for consumption, although at the start of Creation Adam and Eve were given a Vegan diet, 2 Genesis 4:9 & 2 Genesis 4:16, we are given the Earth and all thats within it to be good "Stewards", we are to use, not to abuse, but as usual the sinful nature of humanity causes us to exploit, horde and destroy what God freely gave to us. Anyone thats familiar with the Cruelty and suffering we inflict on Gods creation to satisfy our wanting meat and dairy products, for it is now a want and not a need, must ask themselves the question, " Is this how God wants me to act"?.

But to the point of our Meat and Dairy consumption destroying Gods creation. Animal Farming is the leading cause of Deforestation in the world, with Cattle ranching and Soya production for animal feed accounting for over 90% of Amazon Rainforest destruction. Animal farming is also the leading cause of Habitat loss in general due to the vast amounts of land needed both for grazing and for growing the huge amounts of grain that the 70 Billion farm animals we raise and slaughter every year eat . Due to this habitat loss its also one of the leading causes of Species extinction and consumes up to 30% of the worlds freshwater supplies. It also is responsible for around 15% to 20% of Greenhouse gas emissions, an amount that exceeds the greenhouse gas emissions of ALL forms of transport. Its the leading cause of water pollution, Oceanic dead zones and one of the leading causes of Soil acidification. In short, Meat and Dairy production are an abomination, for the cruelty they inflict on Gods creatures, through the destruction of Gods creation and through the blood soaked slaughterhouses and factory farms that inflict such brutalities on the human souls that work in them.

Aid is a crazy topic. Elon Musk said that it is a lot more complicated then people realize. 'Show me an aid foundation that is not corrupt'.

Yes Aid is a complicated issue, which is why Elon musk and his DOGE associates should have stayed well clear of a subject they know nothing about. The Aid cuts theyve inflicted will cost around 14 million lives and untold pain and suffering to tens of millions more as Hunger programmes are cut back, health centres closed and education and clean water programmes stopped.

And of course many AID programmes had corruption within them, show me a human institution that isnt corrupt, and of course that corruption must be addressed, but to take an axe to programmes that mean life and death to millions is not the answer, root out corruption, improve the provision of aid, dont tie it to donor countries products, dont make it dependent on economic and political reforms, dont give it to those that dont need it, the 2 largest recipients of US Aid are Israel and Egypt, hardly the poorest of the poor, give it to the poorest and make it effective, and give it in the form of grants and not loans which have to be repaid and are thus used as a lever for "opening up" and exploiting poor countries. Yes there are many reforms that can be undertaken, but what Musk, Trump and their associates and supporters have done is to cause even more death and suffering, and God will judge them accordingly.

I believe in teaching people to fish.

There are basically 2 parts to Aid, Emergency Aid thats used to keep people alive in times of emergencies, When war, Famine ,flood or other natural disasters strikes, and Development Aid, the Aid thats used to "Teach people how to fish", although thats often not needed as people already know how, they just dont have the resources to do it efficiently, and thats where development aid comes in, by supplying the tools, be it clean water, education, health provision, improved market access for their surplus goods, animal health and disease prevention to name just a few. I watched a programme a couple of days ago where a group of people in Sudan walked 30 km to harvest some wood to turn into Charcoal and then sell in the market for around $5 just to enable their kids to eat, or a woman who was 7 months pregnant who walked 100km to an aid centre with her 2 young children to get food, Emergency aid is there to prevent their suffering, development aid is there to try to prevent their suffering. As Christians we would also add "Spiritual Aid", to nourish both the soul as well as the body. And what better way to provide that Spiritual aid than to "Let our good works shine so that others may see them and praise our Father in heaven".

Military spending is a must if you have enemies also spending.

Interesting, are you speaking from a Christian or Secular perspective here. From a Christian perspective i find it hard to justify military spending, but even if you approach it from a secular view, spending 20 times more on weapons than Aid shows a society thats corrupt and so far removed form the principles of Compassion and justice it claims to stand for, especially so when that country already has the largest and most powerful army the worlds ever seen. Thus millions suffer and die so that more and more weapons are produced, Spiritual and Moral bankruptcy in the extreme

Is America's immigration policy harsh and brutal? I don't think it is. They don't have a policy problem, their policies are pretty much the same as all other countries. America has a criminal problem.

Well if you think being grabbed off the streets by masked and armed men, bundled into vans, held in detention centres renowned for their brutality and deprivations and then deported without due judicial process is not "Harsh and Brutal", when you see people shot for just "observing" the actions of these masked ICE agents, when you see them smashing car windows and dragging out screaming women, when they detain 4,000 children in these Detention centres and kidnap children to force their parents to "give themselves up", now that may or may not be the same as other countries, certainly here in the UK thats not happening, but that isnt the issue, the issue is wherever it happens, is it harsh and brutal, and more importantly are we following Christs Commandment to Love our Neighbour, treat others as we'd want to be treated and to "welcome the stranger", or do you think Christ should have added " As long as theyre Legal"?.

People who sin and enjoy it want to live peacefully in it. You don't want to be harassed and told that you are going to hell. People in mortal sins therefore love quoting Matt 5:28 in isolation to all other scripture. ''We are all sinners, we all deserve hell, God sees my heart somewhere somehow, don't judge me, judge yourself'''

You mean like Christians that are Rich, or who seemingly care little for the poor, suffering and oppressed, or who support a massive Military used to control and destroy their enemies, or those that say nothing about the destruction of Gods creation or the hundreds of millions that are suffering because of that destruction but support a President who through his support of a massive expansion of Oil, Gas and coal production is hastening that suffering and destruction, who live comfortably in a world of such suffering and destruction yet pay lip service to their Saviour who taught them to Deny themselves, take up their Cross and follow where he led, to love their neighbour and treat others as they'd want to be treated, you mean that kind of "People who sin and enjoy it and want to live peacefully in it"?.

When John the Baptist saw Herod in an adulterous marriage (mortal sin), he voiced his disagreement and lost his head. He did not speak to Herod about his thoughts of adultery.

You are no John the Baptist, and yes by all means point out the sins of others, but do so in a spirit of Compassion and humility recognising that you are a sinner yourself, and responsible for sins as great or perhaps even greater than those you are so willing to condemn.

Many will keep quiet as they don't want to offend anyone or they themselves want to live in their own sin. A Christian cannot keep quiet. That is a sign you are a Christian.

And many will reflect first on their own sin, to try to take the log out of their own eye before they try to remove the speck from their brothers, perhaps you see silence when in fact theres an understanding of their own sins and a reluctance to condemn others when their lives are so bound with evil. Speaking out may be a sign "youre a Christian", or it may also be a sign that youre a self righteous hypocrite all too keen to condemn others while choosing to ignore your own failings, But God knows and sees ALL, and his judgement will fall on all of us, sinner and self righteous alike

When you blanket sin, you are not a Christian. Not a John the Baptist. You are a false teacher.

I see now what you mean by "blanket", i thought you meant "blanket" as to group them all together, but you mean to cover up, well we're ALL guilty of that, whether we think it or not, and the mark of a Christian is to recognise that, to be humble in the sight of God as the wretched sinner that we are and when we do point out the sins of others always do so in that spirit of Humility and also Compassion, for why we do something is as important , or perhaps even more important, than what we actually do.

 

[Bill]

If I understand this stinking thinking rad is suggesting that we should allow the murders and rapist n the theives n all the rest of the evil keep doing it n we should tell the victims it's ok that they raped or what ya because god said forgive..
N if the one who got raped or whatever needs to swallow that n if they don't they are being evil..

Lord put Laws for a reason

This rad preaches a different gospel..

I'm j.s. he is very twisted n very dangerous like I said before

Hope all's well..

Who knows the Lord may call him yet..as of now idk what Spirit he got in him but it is not the Holy one that is for sure

I've really been working on saying things nice frfr..

乁⁠[⁠ ⁠◕⁠ ⁠ᴥ⁠ ⁠◕⁠ ⁠]⁠ㄏ

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

You had me laughing at stinking thinking my