Do you subscribe to the Short Ending or Longer Ending in Mark Chapter 16?
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PloughBoy
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I guess the word you decided to use “Subscribe” meaning I believe you are saying am I in “Agreement” with all of Mark chapter 16. Per-Se.
Well, this is the only way I can answer that is.
“I do not believe that “Song of Songs” should be in The 66 Books of “The Canon of Scripture” excepted by “The Protestant Faith” but it is a part of The Book I believe in that is without error and I have excepted “The Chicago Statement of Biblical Inerrancy”.
Now if The Bible has a Problem, it ain’t my problem, Let GOD solve it!
But, One Thing I do know, it has enough information in it, that can save “SOULS”!
And to me everything else comes last.
“Rejoice not that the demons are subject to you BUT Rejoice because your names is Written in Heaven”
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That is a statement of unbelief.
Unbelief that God can preserve both His word [the scriptures] and that God cannot preserve the truth of the gospel of salvation.
The "shorter" ending of Mark 16 is deliberate mutilation of manuscripts by those who centuries later were unable to comply with the truth of Mark 16 - Roman Catholicism along with eastern Orthodoxy and Protestant faiths.
Mark 16 is what the gospel is about, and what Acts and the epistles to the Spirit-filled church upholds.
And beginning in the 1880s onwards God has poured out his Spirit again as he did in the beginning of the NT - the alpha and the omega - the beginning and the last.
For these times are truly the last days and God is gathering unto himself those that he is calling into the body of Christ.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
Perhaps you could share the short ending with the longer ending of Mark Chapter 16 for members and readers outside the forum to compare?
Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Not sure where the cut off is for the shorter version but in addressing the supposed longer version of Mark 16, I suspect that it is accused as an addition because of believers from cults misapplying those words as if believers are to follow signs or look for signs when what is written is about how signs will follow believers. Most in error seem to apply those verses as if believers are to look for signs following them as proof or for a sign proving something, but they should not.
That is not the example set in the Book of Acts so why apply it as if the gospel of Mark wants believers to follow after signs when Jesus had said this?
Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
An example of Mark 16:18 as a sign that follows believers can be seen here.
Acts 28:1And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita. 2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold. 3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
So I would not doubt the longer version but doubt believers for how they apply His words to mean.
I would not doubt that there are shorter versions of Mark 16 for why they doubt the longer version, but when you consider that some would misapply His words to that end, I can see why they would drop it in some places while others kept it.
I believe 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven was originally scripture because when you take it out, how can God's witness be greater than men's witness in the earth in 1 John 5:9 ?
There are extrabiblical evidence of 1 John 5:7 as originally scripture as past historical debates have referred to 1 John 5:7 by reference in defending the deity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity doctrine. IS 1 JOHN 5:7 NOT IN ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPT BEFORE THE 1600S? IF IT IS TRUE, WHY IS IT IN THE KJV?
Anyway, just sharing the cause for why and how Mark 16 may have become shorter, not because the longer version was not scripture but they edited it because of believers misapplying His words back then as they do now today, but it was not a just cause to do that though.
You might want to add "or for that matter whether either ending belongs".
Samson2020
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As it stands in the KJV today.
Does that also include 1 John 5:7 in the KJV also?
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
I believe verse 7 is p\originally scripture because by removing verse 7, verse 9 falls flat for how can God's witness of His Son in Heaven be greater than the many men's witness in the earth?
Samson2020
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Sure.
Do you subscribe to Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and the revelation in the knowledge of Him: ?
Lets not take this any farther and keep to the original post please so yes/no
Depends on how you are applying His words in Ephesians 1:17 to mean. Since you acknowledge 1 John 5:7 as scripture as well as in general, other scripture testifying to Jesus as God, then for the Father of glory to give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him is by knowing that Jesus is God as well.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
If you are applying Ephesians 1:17 as towards John 14:7 for how we receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him by knowing Jesus as God in knowing the Son and thereby we know the Father as well, then Amen.
But if you are taking the highlighted and enlarged portion of that verse in Ephesians 1:17 as if Jesus is not God, then that would not be rightly dividing the word of truth then.
The only reason the Father is greater as God over Jesus is because it is the Faher's will be done in having that authority as Father God but that does not negate Jesus as God when being the Son of God also known as the Word of God thus the Word of the Father as His Son as God as well as the words of the Father are the Son's as John 16:15 testifies.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
That is why those who deny the Son as the Christ ( Christ as the "Rock" is referring to deity ) is denying the Father at the same time for They are both God.
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Anyway, clarity is needed from you in how you are applying His words in Ephesians 1:17 to mean.
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Both were present early on and Irenaeus even quotes from 16:9 in Against Heresies in the early 2nd century (and his mentor was Polycarp a disciple of the Apostle John). Now one story I read (I believe it is in Eusibius History of the Church) is that before he was martyred along with Paul, Peter sends Mark to minister in Alexandria, but Mark had not yet completed his gospel account (which was the memiors and teachings of Peter). Then, not that much later, we see that Codex Alexandrinus contains the longer ending and Vaticanus has an unusual blank space where it would have went and the discard Sinaiticus has the shorter ending.
Samson2020
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I agree that Jesus is a God for the Father proclaimed just that "unto the Son He saith, Thy throne O God is forever....." " Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity
therefore; God, even THY GOD HATH ANNOINTED THEE with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Hebrews 1:8-9
There is no way that God annointed Himself according to the above verse. And twisting Ephesians 1:17 to deny there is a Son and a Father that are separate but one in spirit denies
either the Father or the Son, you pick, but as you quoted that is anti-Christ.
Ephesians 1:17 speaks for itself, and is quite plain in its statement just like Hebrews 1:9 The Father is the God of Jesus Christ.
jd01,
re: "Do you subscribe to the Short Ending or Longer Ending in Mark Chapter 16?"
I don't currently have a belief one way or the other with regard to the authenticity of the endings of Mark 16. But just as an aside, in another topic regarding the issue, a comment was made that it doesn't make a difference because there is nothing in the questioned verses that isn't verified in other scriptures. However, actually only one verse - Mark 16:9 as it is translated in the KJV and similar versions - is the only place which puts the resurrection on the 1 day of the week.
re: "Do you subscribe to the Short Ending or Longer Ending in Mark Chapter 16?"
I don't currently have a belief one way or the other with regard to the authenticity of the endings of Mark 16. But just as an aside, in another topic regarding the issue, a comment was made that it doesn't make a difference because there is nothing in the questioned verses that isn't verified in other scriptures. However, actually only one verse - Mark 16:9 as it is translated in the KJV and similar versions - is the only place which puts the resurrection on the 1 day of the week.
Part of your quoted reference. " "unto the Son He saith, Thy throne O God is forever....."
God the Father annointed God the Son. God the Father called His Son, God.
I did not say one in spirit but "They" are One God. To deny Jesus as of the One God is the same as denying the Father of the One God.
The Father is the God of Jesus Christ Whom the Son is also God Himself.
The only way to honor the Father as God is to honor the Son as God also which is what the Spirit of God in us is leading us to do because the Holy Spirit has been sent to testify of the son to glorify the Son as that is the only way to glorify God the Father. There is no other way to glorify the Father as God but by glorifying His Son as God.
Asking you for clarity and why it is important because of the consequence is not me attacking you but showing by the scriptures why I have these concerns for you in asking this clarity from you.
If you felt judged, because the shoe fits, that is God ministering to you that pruning is needed because your focus is on the Father when it should be on the Son as God. That is Who you are to be witnesses of in seeking the glory of the Son in being a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ if you wish to seek the glory of God the Father.
You are my brother and even I need His corrections at various times in my life to be better witnesses of the Son, and so you should not continue on as if you can do no wrong for that would be resisting pruning so you can bear more fruit.
Samson2020
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That is almost a true statement. The Father is the God of Jesus Christ, who is also A God. As He should be seeing He was perfected then became a life giving spirit. 1 Co 15:45
If Jesus were God prior to His earthly mission He would not need to have been perfected, which begs the question WHO PERFECTED HIM? Himself?
If Jesus were a part of a triune God then He would not be subject unto His Father, the only true God.
It takes 2 witnesses to establish a truth. The Holy Ghost gave at least 2 in Jesus' statement in John 20:17 .....I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God.
The second witness is Paul in Ephesians 1:17 "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ........." Hebrews 1:9 "....therefore God, even THY GOD, hath annointed thee.........
2 Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.............. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ....
The third witness 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...........
Now one question begs an answer. If Jesus says to Mary to tell his brethren that He is ascending to His God and they're God does He make it clear that
He is not their God? But rather their brother?
@God's Truth
Jesus is the God men had seen in the Old Testament.
Scripture establishes that men have not seen God the Father at any time, but men have seen God in the Old Testament, and that God that the men have seen was Jesus Christ as the Son of God BEFORE His incarnation. Jesus verified that Moses had written about Him.
Jesus The God That Men Had Seen In The O.T.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life...… 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
By His own words, Jesus said that Abraham had seen Him.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Jesus was referencing these moments with Abraham.
Genesis 12:7And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the Lord, who appeared unto him.
Genesis 17:1And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
The last reference in Genesis 18th chapter was when the Lord promised Abraham that Sarah will have a son.
Other men have seen the Lord also. The Lord appeared to Isaac.
Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
The Lord appeared to Jacob.
Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
So it was Jesus as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that appeared unto Moses in that fiery bush.
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.....
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. 16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
So Moses had written of the Lord Jesus Christ just as Jesus has said before His incarnation as the "I Am that I Am" as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
All sons are to be subjected to their fathers, but that does not negate their humanity any more than it negates Jesus as deity either.
Mayhap the Lord may use these scripture to shed some light on how you are misapplying His words here.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The truth that He is saying He is ascending to Heaven is He that came down from heaven as God.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The truth hat He was in the bosom of the Father & had seen Him shows He is the God that descended down from Heaven.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
The truth that Jesus had seen the Father testifies that He is of God as in of the Triune God for He had seen the Father.
So Jesus ascending to His God and their God when no man can means what? He was the God that came down from Heaven, the very God men had seen in the O.T. & lived.
Samson2020
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You are unable to register what I say so we shall part ways as I do not wish to converse with you when I use simple straight forward verses from multiple witnesses, and everything you reply with must be twisted and interpreted in order for your preconceived notion to be true.
Admon Mikha'el
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I don't even understand the question!! Mark 16 ends...I've never seen alternate endings. Mark is not a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
What is registering is your testimony about Who you are seeking the glory of and that is the Father, but the role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son thru us in order to glorify the Son which is to the glory of God the Father.
This is how God the Father is glorified by glorifying the Son because the name of His Son is above every other name and that is the mind of Christ & the obedience Paul wanted the Philippians to have while in his absence.
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Who is the God working in us that is to the glory of God the Father?
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
That is what a disciple of Jesus Christ does as led by the Spirit of Christ to do because there is no other way to honor & glorify the Father than by honoring and glorifying the Son as that standard of judgment is over every saved believer.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
So decide this day Whom you will serve; the Lord Jesus Christ in seeking His glory which is to the glory of God the Father OR you seek to serve something else in His name in seeking the glory of that the Father is not glorified by.
It is probably from one of those anti-KJVO arguments.
@jd01 Is this question related to one of those arguments? Although @rstrats in post # 12 did mention KJV & other versions having Mark 16:9 as it is translated, claiming the resurrection was on the first day of the week, however...
Matthew 28:1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mark 16:2And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
The resurrection on the first day of the week is mentioned in each gospel.
I am not certain where the cut off point is for the shorter version on recollection but if verse 9 is part of the longer version, for why this point is made, it was mentioned earlier in verse 2 of that chapter in Mark.
Mark 16::2And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun...... 9Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
But I do agree with @rstrats that "it doesn't make a difference because there is nothing in the questioned verses that isn't verified in other scriptures" which I include the first day of the week being when the resurrection took place.
However, it is how believers apply those verses to mean; if they misapply His words as if believers follow signs, then they are in trouble because of Matthew 12:39-40.
Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
This is why those who seek or had experienced what they believe was another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or by that sign of tongues ( as that other calling was given earlier from before ) later in life as a saved believer or seeking proof of salvation when they came forward, are getting tongues for private use because it was not coming with interpretation, is why God permitted that strong delusion also known as the second blessing to occur. This is a departure from the traditions taught of us for when we had received the sanctification & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel for why there is no receiving the Holy Ghost other than by faith in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel and those that have gone astray are at risk of damnation of being left behind to die, in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation.
2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,........
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
I point out that Paul continued to address those that have departed from faith and are walking disorderly ( slain in spirit & holy laughter ) by not following the traditions taught of us that with the Lord's help, we are commanded to withdraw from them that err, but not to treat them as the enemy as if unsaved, but to admonish them as brothers still because they are still saved but again, at risk of damnation of becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House.
2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Anyway, just pointing out how saved believers or those who believe and got saved before seeking proof of salvation when they came forward by following signs are in trouble with the Lord.
Signs follow believers so that unbelievers may believe.
1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:....
An example of this in scripture is found here by how Paul did not seek a sign by getting bitten by a viper; it just happened but note how the unbelievers saw this.
Acts 28:1And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita. 2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold. 3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
So signs are not to serve believers nor are saved believers nor potential believers are to seek after signs because of Jesus's warning in Matthew 12:39-40 as mentioned earlier. Misapplying His words in he longer version as is in the KJV is the problem rather than questioning the validiaty of the longer version because of those misapplication of His words.
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GodB4Us,
re: "The resurrection on the first day of the week is mentioned in each gospel."
Actually, your Matthew 28:21, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:21 and John 20:1 references don't say when the resurrection occurred. They only say that the women went to the tomb on the first day of the week. Nothing is said about the timing of the resurrection.
re: "But I do agree with @rstrats that "it doesn't make a difference because there is nothing in the questioned verses that isn't verified in other scriptures"..."
I wasn't saying that. I said that someone else made that statement.
re: "The resurrection on the first day of the week is mentioned in each gospel."
Actually, your Matthew 28:21, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:21 and John 20:1 references don't say when the resurrection occurred. They only say that the women went to the tomb on the first day of the week. Nothing is said about the timing of the resurrection.
re: "But I do agree with @rstrats that "it doesn't make a difference because there is nothing in the questioned verses that isn't verified in other scriptures"..."
I wasn't saying that. I said that someone else made that statement.
