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Do You Have To Be Baptised To Recieve The Holy Spirit

Loyal
Mark 16:16; "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

"and has been baptized shall be saved"... hmmmm
In a way. the receiving of the Holy Spirit is a baptism itself.

Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 11:16; "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'


Acts 2:38; Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Does everyone receive the Holy Spirit when they get saved, or even when they get baptized in water?

Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Can we really be "baptized into Jesus" without being baptized?

Rom 6:3; Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4; Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5; For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Can we be clothed in Christ without baptism?

Gal 3:27; For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
 
Member
Look, we can sit here and throw verses back and forth for--literally--days ( I've done it ) and not accomplish a thing. These debates have gone on for two thousand years, I'm sure. Believe what you want to believe. The Bible was written in such a way that a person can actually find a verse to support pretty much anything that they want to believe. You may not agree that they've interpreted the verse correctly, but once a person reaches a certain confidence in an interpretation it is almost impossible to change their minds, I've learned.
 
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RJ

Look, RJ, I realize that you have probably believed what you believe for a very long time and I am not asking you to change it, but these things are what I have come to believe. I'm not going to tell you that you are doing it wrong, it is YOUR salvation, YOUR relationship with God, not mine. You do things your way and I'll do things mine. You go ahead and continue trying to warn people away from the things that I believe in and I'll continue giving them the choice of it.
Look, we both should be here to spread the true gospel to the world. So, sure you must want me to change because according to you, if I don't change, I will not go to heaven. SO, it is your burden, your cross to bear and you should never back off or I may be lost forever.
This is not just a matter of opinions, it is a matter of the truth and salvation, which should be our most important concern. It is not just "my salvation" that we are talking about. There are many people that visit this site for truth, so more important than me, it is their salvation that we should be concerned with; we can't treat this as some casual "difference in opinion". It just so happens that this difference of opinion is about the right way to salvation. You have your opinion and I have mine. Either your stance is the way to salvation or mine is the way to salvation. They can't be both correct, so the babe being taught the wrong way does not go to heaven; that is an incredible responsibility on both of us!

Ultimately, you are correct, it does finally boil down to their choice and the seriousness of this is that if they choose wrong, they may very well not go to heaven. So, for those listening in, let's get this straight and, please, don't let me put words in you mouth.
Your choice: You must be water baptized or you cannot be saved and go to heaven.
  • You can quote many verses that say to be baptized but none say in order to be saved.
  • You are then saying that no man can receive God and be saved on their death bed whether a soldier in the field or a person at home or in a hospital bed.
My Choice: Though water baptism is a wonderful way to outwardly acknowledge that you are a Christian, it has nothing to do with being saved, that is by your faith in Jesus Christ alone.
  • There are many verse that actually mention salvation, here is just a few:
  • Ephesians 2:8-9...8 For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works,so that no one can boast. So, God himself mentions how to be saved. He says you are saved by faith and it has nothing you can do because it is a gift from him. If you say that you have been baptized and are going to heaven and you save that others not baptized are going to heaven, then that is boasting, which God says is wrong!
  • Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3, Galatians 3:6, Romans 4:11
Again God, not man, says that it is by belief / faith that you are saved and nothing else is stated!
So, Stickz, here it is. With regards to the need to be water baptized for salvation, we have two clear-cut views, both can not be of God. One saves and one does not and God have mercy on anyone who chooses the wrong way.....Hebrews 11:6
 
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It is evident by the Word of God that we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost if we repent, and we ought not to suppose that we can receive the Spirit without repentance. Let us therefore learn to not think above that which is written, so that we do not begin to exaggerate and over-estimate beyond that which is written.
 
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RJ

It is evident by the Word of God that we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost if we repent, and we ought not to suppose that we can receive the Spirit without repentance. Let us therefore learn to not think above that which is written, so that we do not begin to exaggerate and over-estimate beyond that which is written.
Many times it goes beyond what is written, it is a matter of faith that leads us to understanding. "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."
 
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RJ

"and has been baptized shall be saved"... hmmmm
In a way. the receiving of the Holy Spirit is a baptism itself.
And I believe that is actually the baptism of most importants in a man's life: born a new, the second birth, born of the spirit, regeneration, all happens when you receive the Holy Spirit in you! It is a spiritual thing by God and not a physical thing by man.
 
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RJ

Does everyone receive the Holy Spirit when they get saved, or even when they get baptized in water?
Receiving the Holy Spirit is synonymous with salvation whether in or out of water.
 
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RJ

Can we really be "baptized into Jesus" without being baptized?
Being baptized into Jesus is the same as receiving the Holy Spirit.
Baptized = joined, united, identified [in christ]; for a simple answer to what this means.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 
Member
"So, sure you must want me to change because according to you, if I don't change, I will not go to heaven. SO, it is your burden, your cross to bear and you should never back off or I may be lost forever."

Honestly, RJ, and no offense intended, but I gave up trying to get you to change your mind a long time ago because I think I come to the realization of why you cannot--you have too much invested in what you believe right now.

"It just so happens that this difference of opinion is about the right way to salvation. You have your opinion and I have mine. Either your stance is the way to salvation or mine is the way to salvation. They can't be both correct, so the babe being taught the wrong way does not go to heaven; that is an incredible responsibility on both of us!"

I completely agree with everything that you have said here. They cannot both be correct.

"Your choice: You must be water baptized or you cannot be saved and go to heaven.
  • You can quote many verses that say to be baptized but none say in order to be saved.
  • You are then saying that no man can receive God and be saved on their death bed whether a soldier in the field or a person at home or in a hospital bed."

I Peter 3:21 And, corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you--not the washing off of material defilement, but the craving of a good conscience after God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, ( Weymouth NT 1912 )

First of all, should men be waiting to "receive God" on their death beds?

Secondly, you are making it about the water itself, the submerging, when you start talking about bedridden people etc. and I am not saying that because you were sprinkled or baptized when you were an infant or child that that qualifies you for having been baptized and that that will get you into Heaven or help you get into Heaven. Why? Because when people take their newborns to a church to be sprinkled etc they are making it about the act itself and NOT about the faith, obedience, and understanding involved in baptism. Does that not make sense to you? You can't take your four or five year old children and have them repeat the sinner's prayer ( or whatever ) with you to ensure their salvation, it HAS to be their choice and their faith for salvation to work. I believe that that is where the people were going wrong in the Law, they were putting faith in the acts themselves and NOT where they should have been putting their faith. It isn't that God wants to see us be submerged into a pool of water, He wants to see us obey His word and grow in real faith.

What cleansed Naaman of his leprosy? The Jordan river's special water? No, it was his faith in what he was told to do to cleanse himself of it. And I think it is safe to say that he must not have had much faith in the prophet's words because he argued and questioned until one of his men talked him into just doing what the prophet had told him to do, right?

"My Choice: Though water baptism is a wonderful way to outwardly acknowledge that you are a Christian, it has nothing to do with being saved, that is by your faith in Jesus Christ alone."

Just for thoroughness sake, RJ, would you list the scriptures that support what you are saying here: "Though water baptism is a wonderful way to outwardly acknowledge that you are a Christian"? Just show me where the Bible explains the water baptism in this way, please, and what do you mean when you say "outwardly acknowledge"? That you are doing it just to show other people that you have become a Christian or something? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck or anything, I have always wanted someone to explain this to me because I'm not sure I quite understand it. So, I'm honestly just asking you to show me in scripture how you and others have come to determine that this is all the baptism is: an exhibition?

When you say "faith in Jesus Christ alone" do you mean one just has to believe that Jesus Christ is? Or would that also include doing everything that he commanded? Wouldn't faith in Jesus Christ involve everything that he is about and not just what we like or are comfortable with?

  • "Ephesians 2:8-9...8 For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works,so that no one can boast. So, God himself mentions how to be saved. He says you are saved by faith and it has nothing you can do because it is a gift from him. If you say that you have been baptized and are going to heaven and you save that others not baptized are going to heaven, then that is boasting, which God says is wrong!"
I admit and agree that no one can do something ( personal works ) outside of going to Jesus Christ to get saved. I cannot save myself, no matter what I do. My faith in Jesus Christ involves him showing ( revealing to ) me what he wants of me and my doing it. I don't see it as boasting ( or me glorying ) over anything that I have done myself. I see it as me being obedient BECAUSE of my faith in Christ.

Allow me to TRY to explain my view of faith real quick: Going to a church building where you already know the people inside have accepted Jesus Christ and confessing that you do too takes very little faith IF any. The same act ( your confessing Christ ) in a building full of radical Muslims, in Iraq, requires a little more, correct? Faith without works is dead. If something ( anything ) that is done by anyone is something that an unbeliever could have done then it requires no faith in Christ to do so. That is how I view faith.

"So, Stickz, here it is. With regards to the need to be water baptized for salvation, we have two clear-cut views, both can not be of God. One saves and one does not and God have mercy on anyone who chooses the wrong way.....Hebrews 11:6"

Both views are definitely not of God.

One more question for you, if you don't mind? I asked it in an earlier post but did not get anything from anyone: Was John's baptism from God or of men?
 
Member
HisFollower: "It is evident by the Word of God that we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost if we repent, and we ought not to suppose that we can receive the Spirit without repentance. Let us therefore learn to not think above that which is written, so that we do not begin to exaggerate and over-estimate beyond that which is written."

How many verses in the Bible refer to the baptism as the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins?
 
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RJ

Secondly, you are making it about the water itself, the submerging, when you start talking about bedridden people etc. and I am not saying that because you were sprinkled or baptized when you were an infant or child that that qualifies you for having been baptized and that that will get you into Heaven or help you get into Heaven. Why? Because when people take their newborns to a church to be sprinkled etc they are making it about the act itself and NOT about the faith, obedience, and understanding involved in baptism. Does that not make sense to you? You can't take your four or five year old children and have them repeat the sinner's prayer ( or whatever ) with you to ensure their salvation, it HAS to be their choice and their faith for salvation to work. I believe that that is where the people were going wrong in the Law, they were putting faith in the acts themselves and NOT where they should have been putting their faith. It isn't that God wants to see us be submerged into a pool of water, He wants to see us obey His word and grow in real faith.
  • Wow, where in the world did I ever mention sprinkling or infant baptism in anyway? You are really of base here!
 
Member
There is a difference between what I believe and your interpretation of what I believe sometimes, RJ. I actually believe that the thief on the cross was baptized, but I admit it is only theoretical and has little-to-no scriptural support.
 
Member
"Wow, where in the world did I ever mention sprinkling or infant baptism in anyway?"

You didn't mention sprinkling or infant baptism, RJ, I did to make a point. Apparently you missed the point.
 
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RJ

It isn't that God wants to see us be submerged into a pool of water, He wants to see us obey His word and grow in real faith.
Now your talking!!! Now, you're getting it!!! God is not as interested in the water as he is in your faith. He wants you to obey by faith, like our father Abraham, so he can freely give his gift of salvation to us like he did Abraham!
 
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RJ

There is a difference between what I believe and your interpretation of what I believe sometimes, RJ. I actually believe that the thief on the cross was baptized, but I admit it is only theoretical and has little-to-no scriptural support.
You say that because it fits you narrative and theology because there is not a little scripture support...there is no scripture support.
 
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RJ

I admit and agree that no one can do something ( personal works ) outside of going to Jesus Christ to get saved. I cannot save myself, no matter what I do. My faith in Jesus Christ involves him showing ( revealing to ) me what he wants of me and my doing it. I don't see it as boasting ( or me glorying ) over anything that I have done myself. I see it as me being obedient BECAUSE of my faith in Christ.
Sorry, there is no way around it, if you say that you must be water baptized to be saved, that is boasting of something that you physically had to do.....that is boasting in your actions and not in faith alone.
 
Member
"You say that because it fits you narrative and theology because there is not a little scripture support...there is no scripture support."

RJ, let me ask you: What exactly happened to make the thief on the cross come to the conclusion that Jesus was the Son of God? Scripture gives us very little of their conversation on the cross, correct? Had the thief heard about Jesus at another point in time? You give me something that you can support with scripture, please.
 
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