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Do You Have To Be Baptised To Recieve The Holy Spirit

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RJ

No, you do not have to be baptized to be filled with the Holy Spirit. To prove this all we have to do is look at the Scriptures where the phrase "filled with the Spirit" is used.

  • Luke 1:15, “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will befilled with the Holy Spiritwhile yet in his mother’s womb."
  • Luke 1:41, "When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth wasfilled with the Holy Spirit."
  • Luke 1:67, "And his father Zacharias wasfilled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying..."
  • Acts 2:4, "And they were allfilled with the Holy Spiritand began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
  • Acts 4:8, "Then Peter,filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people,"
  • Acts 4:31, "And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were allfilled with the Holy Spiritand began to speak the word of God with boldness."
  • Acts 9:17, "So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and befilled with the Holy Spirit.”
  • Acts 13:9, "But Saul, who was also known as Paul,filled with the Holy Spirit,fixed his gaze on him,"
  • Acts 13:52, "And the disciples were continuallyfilled with joy and with the Holy Spirit."
  • Eph 5:18, "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but befilled with the Spirit,"
So, we can see that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit while he was in his mother's womb. Of course, he had not been baptized at that point. InLuke 1:41we see that Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she had not been baptized either. The same is true with Zacharias inLuke 1:67. InActs 2:4people were filled with the Holy Spirit and were not baptized until later on (2:38).

One of the evidences of being filled with the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues -- though speaking in tongues is not a necessary result of being filled with the Holy Spirit. When we look at another set of verses in Acts, we see something very interesting.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, becausethe gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentilesalso. 46 For they were hearing themspeaking with tonguesand exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days," (Acts 10:44-48).

It should be obvious from the text that the Gentiles had already received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were speaking in tonguesbeforethey were baptized. Therefore, the answer is clear. It is not necessary to be baptized in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
 
Loyal
I would agree that there is not a certain order in which things have to happen. But another thing to note, is that other than Jesus and John the Baptist, (who had the Holy Spirit from their mother's womb).
I believe everyone else, somewhere in their lives had to make a choice whether to receive salvation or not. (Everyone isn't saved).
Is that for everyone else, this happened as three separate events.

I can't find any verse where anyone else was baptized (either with water or with the Holy Spirit) unless they were saved first.
In Acts 1:8; Jesus told them they would be filled with the Holy Spirit at a later time.
Everyone in Acts 2 was saved before they received the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:15; says this was about 120 people)
Peter gives instruction in Acts 2:38; (note that repentance is required) about baptism.
Keep in mind the Holy Spirit could not be given to the church while Jesus was on the earth. ( John 16:7; John 7:39; Acts 1:8; )

In some cases they were baptized with water first (the apostles were baptized first)
In Acts 8:14-16; It seems people in Samaria were already baptized, but then they called Peter and John there so they could receive the Holy Spirit. (possibly the same people from John 4:39-41; )

In Acts 5:32; It says God gives the Holy Spirit "to those who obey Him".
In Acts 10:2; We see that Cornelius was a devout man who believed in God, yet it's not until Acts 10:32; that he receives the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 19:1-7; Paul found some disciple at Ephesus that already believed in Jesus, but then they were baptized, and then they received the Holy Spirit.

I think verses such as 1 Cor 3:16; aren't for every believer, only for those who have received the Holy Spirit.
I would be interested in verses that say we receive the Holy Spirit automatically.
 
Member
What verse makes you think that Jesus was born with the Holy Ghost? Just curious. Or, are we just assuming that because it is Jesus that he MUST have been born filled with the Holy Ghost?
 
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RJ

What verse makes you think that Jesus was born with the Holy Ghost? Just curious. Or, are we just assuming that because it is Jesus that he MUST have been born filled with the Holy Ghost?
This is insane! The very thought you don't really know that Mary was impregnated by and Jesus was born of the Spirit, is deeply disturbing. This goes along with your lack of knowledge or faith! This is a Talk Jesus sight dedicated to all the aspects of Jesus. Your blasphemous talk is certainly not welcomed by me.
 
Loyal
What verse makes you think that Jesus was born with the Holy Ghost? Just curious. Or, are we just assuming that because it is Jesus that he MUST have been born filled with the Holy Ghost?
A few things lead us to that conclusion.

Matt 1:18; Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
Matt 1:19; And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
Matt 1:20; But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Also before Jesus was baptized by John the John the Baptist, John said this...

Matt 3:11; "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Would he be able to baptize people with the Holy Spirit if He himself did not have it?

Matt 12:18; "BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.

Acts 10:38; "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
 
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RJ

I think verses such as 1 Cor 3:16; aren't for every believer, only for those who have received the Holy Spirit
No offense intended B-A-C, but sometimes you make no sense at all! Are you saying that their are two types of believers, ones who have received the Holy Spirit and those believers who haven't received the Holy Spirit?.....A true believer is born again or you are no believer at all!
 
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RJ

I would agree that there is not a certain order in which things have to happen
I am sorry but I would disagree with that from the get go! I never said anything about a certain order. What I said and meant was that Baptism has no order in your salvation. By the way, I was Baptized and I know now that it played no part in my salvation, only my faith in the works of Jesus Christ did.
 
Member
RJ, the fact that Bible scholars still debate to this day about whether or not Jesus Christ was actually born filled with the Holy Ghost tells me that my request that you show me scripture to support what you posted is very legitimate. You said, "So, we can see that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit while he was in his mother's womb" as though you had just posted some scripture or something to support this, but I do not see the scripture. I see where it says that John the Baptist was going to be born filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother's womb, and I see where Elisabeth was filled with the Spirit when Mary saluted her, but I fail to see where it actually says that Jesus himself was filled with the Holy Ghost at that point. The scriptures DO tell us that Jesus lived a life very much like ours, tempted in the same ways that we are so that he knows what it is like to be one of us, right? Well, it stands to reason ( to ME, anyway ) to assume that Jesus was NOT born with the benefit and advantage of the Holy Ghost when we were not.

Being born "of" or "by" the Spirit and being born "filled with" the Spirit is two different things.


BAC: "Would he be able to baptize people with the Holy Spirit if He himself did not have it?

Matt 12:18; "BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.

Acts 10:38; "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him."


Scripture tells us that Jesus received the Holy Ghost after being baptized by John the Baptist when he was 30 years old. Who did he baptize with the Spirit before then?
 
Loyal
No offense intended B-A-C, but sometimes you make no sense at all! Are you saying that their are two types of believers, ones who have received the Holy Spirit and those believers who haven't received the Holy Spirit?.....A true believer is born again or you are no believer at all!
Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it separate event?

Act 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Act 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.
Act 10:3; About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"

we don't know how long Cornelius had been a believer, but at least a day later

Act 10:9; On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Did Cornelius and soldiers receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it separate event?

Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Would these people have been baptized with water if they weren't believers? Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it separate event?

Acts 1:13 When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
Acts 1:15 At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said,

Here we see many of the disciples and Mary in the upper room. Would you say they were already believers at this time?

Act 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Act 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Act 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it a separate event?

I believe in some cases they may happen very close together, possibly even in the same hour. But it seems they are two separate events.

Here we see the conversion of Saul to Paul.

Acts 9:3; As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Acts 9:7; The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

Acts 9:8; Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Acts 9:10; Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."
Acts 9:11; And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,
Acts 9:12; and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight."

Was Saul a believer at this point? Why would he be praying to Jesus? Why would God have give him a vision about Ananias?

Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Did Paul receive the Holy Spirit when he first believed or was it separate event?

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Do we receive the Holy Spirit without specifically asking for it?
 
Loyal
I am sorry but I would disagree with that from the get go! I never said anything about a certain order. What I said and meant was that Baptism has no order in your salvation. By the way, I was Baptized and I know now that it played no part in my salvation, only my faith in the works of Jesus Christ did.
Please re-read what I posted, I was agreeing with you.
 
Member
Also, RJ, I've known your feelings about me for a long time. If Chad wants to ban me from Talk Jesus for asking totally legitimate questions then so be it. You can't stand for people with a little bit of knowledge to question your posts. Did Chad authorize you to police the threads, to correct all of us evil unbelievers when we come into Talk Jesus to spread our lies and deceit? You KNOW that when you start threads about OSAS, or the baptism, or the Trinity, or the Rapture that you put yourself in the position to be questioned by the tons of people out there that have studied these things too and believe differently, so WHY do you keep starting the threads, if not to get into heated debates with people? Do you feel it is your responsibility to make sure that Talk Jesus is full of threads with what you believe to be the only truth? What makes what you believe truth and everything that the rest of us believe lies? I believe what I believe for good solid reason just like I guess you do too. Honestly, your insistence on the things that you believe in reminds me more of a controlling cult leader than a man with a true Christian mind that allows people to exercise their own free will to accept what you have said as truth or not. If someone ( even apparent new people that have never been here before ) shows a little hesitance at something you have posted you respond with posts of insistence and impatience. How Christian is that? Jesus didn't even force his words on anyone. And, yes, I'm calling you out on this because I think someone should.
 
Active

RJ

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it separate event?

Act 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Act 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.
Act 10:3; About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"

we don't know how long Cornelius had been a believer, but at least a day later

Act 10:9; On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Did Cornelius and soldiers receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it separate event?

Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Would these people have been baptized with water if they weren't believers? Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it separate event?

Acts 1:13 When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
Acts 1:15 At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said,

Here we see many of the disciples and Mary in the upper room. Would you say they were already believers at this time?

Act 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Act 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Act 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed or was it a separate event?

I believe in some cases they may happen very close together, possibly even in the same hour. But it seems they are two separate events.

Here we see the conversion of Saul to Paul.

Acts 9:3; As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Acts 9:7; The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

Acts 9:8; Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Acts 9:10; Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."
Acts 9:11; And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,
Acts 9:12; and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight."

Was Saul a believer at this point? Why would he be praying to Jesus? Why would God have give him a vision about Ananias?


Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Did Paul receive the Holy Spirit when he first believed or was it separate event?

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Do we receive the Holy Spirit without specifically asking for it?
Sorry B-A-C, no matter how you try to prove your narrative, Jesus was clear about being the need to be "Born Again", born of the spirit in order to go to heaven. The only true believer is one that has the spirit of God deposited in them. With regard to the Gospel, there is only one believer that God is concerned with and any talk of another kind of believer, is leaning towards blaspheme of the holy Spirit!
 
Active

RJ

RJ, the fact that Bible scholars still debate to this day about whether or not Jesus Christ was actually born filled with the Holy Ghost tells me that my request that you show me scripture to support what you posted is very legitimate. You said, "So, we can see that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit while he was in his mother's womb" as though you had just posted some scripture or something to support this, but I do not see the scripture. I see where it says that John the Baptist was going to be born filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother's womb, and I see where Elisabeth was filled with the Spirit when Mary saluted her, but I fail to see where it actually says that Jesus himself was filled with the Holy Ghost at that point. The scriptures DO tell us that Jesus lived a life very much like ours, tempted in the same ways that we are so that he knows what it is like to be one of us, right? Well, it stands to reason ( to ME, anyway ) to assume that Jesus was NOT born with the benefit and advantage of the Holy Ghost when we were not.

Being born "of" or "by" the Spirit and being born "filled with" the Spirit is two different things.


BAC: "Would he be able to baptize people with the Holy Spirit if He himself did not have it?

Matt 12:18; "BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.

Acts 10:38; "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him."


Scripture tells us that Jesus received the Holy Ghost after being baptized by John the Baptist when he was 30 years old. Who did he baptize with the Spirit before then?
Stich you must discern things about God spiritually and leave your carnal thinking or scripture understanding behind because to much will be folly to you.
1 Corinthians 2:14 4 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I take it on faith that if Jesus was God and Jesus was the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, then Jesus was born of the spirit.
 
Member

ATP

All a person will be is a wet duck, baptized in water without faith and belief in Jesus Christ. Wet behind the ears. :rolleyes:
 
Active

RJ

Please re-read what I posted, I was agreeing with you.
I apologize but it sure sounded like you said there was no particular order to salvation and you had no mention of excluding baptism.
So, you agree that baptism plays no role in the order of salvation.
 
Member
"So, you agree that baptism plays no role in the order of salvation."

I do not agree.
 
Active

RJ

"So, you agree that baptism plays no role in the order of salvation."

I do not agree.
Hmmm, that question was directed at B-A-C but thank you anyway!
So let's get this straight, you Stickz, believe you can not be saved and go to heaven unless you are water baptized?
 
Member
I believe that the thief on the cross is the only person you can point to in scripture that may or may not have been baptized, and the argument for his being baptized is just as strong as the argument for his not being baptized. Right? If I COULD prove to you that the thief on the cross was in fact baptized, though, you'd still stick to your guns, I'm sure.

To answer your question, though, yes, I do believe that being baptized is part of believing in Jesus Christ.
 
Active

RJ

I believe that the thief on the cross is the only person you can point to in scripture that may or may not have been baptized, and the argument for his being baptized is just as strong as the argument for his not being baptized. Right? If I COULD prove to you that the thief on the cross was in fact baptized, though, you'd still stick to your guns, I'm sure.

To answer your question, though, yes, I do believe that being baptized is part of believing in Jesus Christ.
Excuse me please. I did not ask if baptism "was a part of believing in Jesus Christ'. What I asked you was if baptism was required for salvation and going to heaven?
 
Member
I believe that one has to believe in Jesus Christ to go to Heaven so yes, RJ, baptism is a part of that belief. Is Jesus dying on the cross still also a part of that belief? Yes. Is Jesus' words still a part of that belief? Yes. I believe that someone can say that they believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins, and if they don't believe some of the things that he taught then they won't make it to Heaven. It's accepting all of Jesus or none.

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Notice that the above verses mention nothing specific about WHAT is being confessed? And they still have to be talking about salvation. If I ONLY take this verse for what it says then I can fill in the blank with ANYTHING.

John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
John 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

They believed but didn't confess, and it goes on to tell us why they didn't. Were these men saved at this point? If one of them would have died a few hours later would that man have gone to Heaven for at least believing?

Acts 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Notice that THIS verse does not specifically tell me that I have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. As long as I confess that I believe God raised him from the dead I will be saved?

I John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: This verse by itself COULD lead one to believe that you can be saved just by confessing that Jesus lived a human life on earth. I just figured it best, RJ, to attempt to take ALL of these verses as a whole instead of trying to pick out ONE of them. I assume they must ALL be true.

I John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Look, RJ, I realize that you have probably believed what you believe for a very long time and I am not asking you to change it, but these things are what I have come to believe. I'm not going to tell you that you are doing it wrong, it is YOUR salvation, YOUR relationship with God, not mine. You do things your way and I'll do things mine. You go ahead and continue trying to warn people away from the things that I believe in and I'll continue giving them the choice of it.
 
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