Do the Protesters even know what they are Protesting ( Minneapolis).

[Rad]

Amen Brother! \o/
[1Th 5:23 NIV] 23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.



If that was all we were talking about I'd agree! Except it's not about going where they are at or giving of self, but moving them to someone else's house, so to speak. Giving them of another's sustenance, while giving of your own is fine, and what the Lord is calling for, but taking from another, even if in your eyes or everyone's eyes it is in abundance, doing so without their permission is wrong. That is where our divide is brother. You can't force another to do good. Just like you can't force another to come to Jesus, they must do so humbly, with repentant and open heart.

This is why I have said it's the process, and not the intent that separates us.

I wondered if you applied that principle to other scenarios Brother Nick, do you think its wrong to take money through taxation to pay for military spending or Policing duties even if the person who is being taxed is vehemently opposed to both. If you believe in Democracy and government, of maintaining order within society through laws, then youre going to have to pay for services and the upkeep of those laws even if youre personally opposed to the laws themselves. Or do you believe that each person has a right to decide what they should contribute to and what laws they should obey?.

Its not so much about forcing someone else to do good, for that is a moral decision, its about trying to build as just and ethical society and world as is possible. One of my favourite passages from the Bible is Micah 6:8, for i believe it encapsulates Gods calling on our lives, " For what does the Lord require of you, but to act Justly, to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your God", Justice, Kindness and Humility which together with Faith should form the bedrock of our lives.

I see this in you and reading your words professing it. Has me loving you all the more brother!



Therein lies the problem between us. You have stated the problem and it's not the improved housing, clean water, help with their crops etc. The actual problem is the "war, violence, persecution" etc. which is not being solved and what is actually preventing the issues that you have mentioned from being resolved. Until they are which we know won't happen until the return of Lord and Savior Jesus to establish His Kingdom here on Earth, all these things will continue to happen. All you're doing is shifting the consequences of the problems onto someone else, which naturally doesn't make them want to help address the root causes either.

Although War, violence and persecution have a part to play in the suffering of this world the main cause is poverty, the lack of resources, and as Christ depicted in Matthew 25 31-46, we are called on to feed the hungry, provide water for the thirsty, house the homeless, provide medical aid for the sick, help the prisoner and welcome the stranger, indeed , in the form of the poor and oppressed we encounter Christ himself, and whether we help him or not will decide our salvation or condemnation.

And youre right of course Brother Nick, the suffering and the destruction will continue until Christ returns, but until he does return, we must act as he commanded, to love our neighbour as ourselves and treat others as we'd want to be treated. If we are followers of Christ we must build our lives on the Firm rock of his truth and teachings.

Showing love and compassion without tackling the root causes is really just offering a temporary respite. This is especially true when Jesus isn’t part of the picture, which is almost always the case with many organizations that focus on easing the symptoms rather than addressing the real problems, which they don't have the power or inclination to deal with. It's like they will replace the pants that an animal is tearing apart but do nothing about the animal that is the cause of the problem! Nothing in truth has changed or will change! Yet, everyone can say "At least I tried!"

We must do both, we must deal with the Poverty and suffering we see all around this world, and we must also address the root causes that cause and allow that poverty to continue. It isnt an either or Brother Nick but Both, "Justice and Mercy", And when we act in Christs name, then Christ is always "part of the picture", when we "let our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven". Let our love and compassion be not just in words , but in actions, and let those actions be driven by our love of God and our Man and include both "Justice, Mercy and humility".

Agreed! We're back to what are we doing to take care of the problem! In truth nothing. We're putting it off to someone else, another day, because tackling the root of the problem is too difficult, or we excuse not addressing it, as being beyond our control/power. What needs to be done, was what was done with Slavery! It was aggressive, direct attacks to the cause of/who was creating it/continuing it! Our governments took direct action, because the people, many Christians won't let the government excuse it, or turn a blind eye to what was happening. Only then did the governments start attacking the ships, ports if necessary. So if attacking the countries, changing the government, is the root of the problem in this day and age of misery, then we must if necessary, tackle the inaction of the governments who we fall under.

Helping the actual slaves was secondary to ending the practice, which, in reality, only pushed it underground, where it still exists today. Thankfully, it’s no longer as widespread or as visible as it once was. It took generations after dismantling the pipelines before we could help those who came after. Without tackling the root cause, nothing would have truly changed. Instead, bypassing the root cause is just dealing with the symptoms...just putting a band-aid on it. All the while destroying the will/resources needed to fix the actual cause.

Which is why we must not only pursue alleviating the suffering of our fellow man but also address the root causes of why that suffering exists. Loving others as we love ourselves and treating others as we'd want to be treated is not just a call to tend to their immediate needs but also a call to Justice. For is not our notion of Justice putting ourselves into anothers situation and asking how would i feel if that was me?. If we do this in Christs name how bright will be the light that shines and how great will be the glorifying of God.

There’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying. They need Jesus—plain and simple. Humanity’s tendency to harm and destroy each other will never end without Him, not just as part of the solution, but as the solution itself. Let go of the guilt, brother—you’re not responsible for the terrible things others choose to do. A lack of love for one another leads to this, and only Jesus can bring real change to anyone. Share the Gospel, and if needed, get their attention by helping them with the symptoms of the problems they may have even contributed to creating, but do not exclude the Gospel. Don’t turn away from them but remember that true salvation comes only through Jesus. Don't just deal with the symptoms without Jesus, because without Him, the root of the problem won't be solved.

We ALL need Jesus Brother Nick, for ALL of us are in need of his compassion and forgiveness, and his truth and understanding. And i cant let go of my Guilt, for i know i am the beneficiary of an evil and corrupt system that puts the majority of the worlds resources into the hands of the priveliged few leaving the mass of humanity to suffer and die in their consequent poverty and deprivation./Their blood is on my hands, i could do and give far more, but my wretched sinfulness , my self interest and lack of self denial and sacrifice prevents me from doing what i know i should. Oh yes, brother Nick, we are ALL in need of Jesus. And the Gospel, Christs teachings, are in all i do, they speak loud and clear as to how my life should be, and my guilt comes from knowing how it is.

No, that is what the flesh craves, but the spirit only my Jesus and Glory Land dear brother! This world only offers, temptation, and a corrupted beauty; that is all. I will not let it take my joy away!

But that is what Christ commands us to do brother Nick, for we are flesh and blood as well as Spirit, and while i understand Christs call that we should "hate our lives and the lives of those around us" because of our sinfulness and corruption, he also says that we should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, ....... it is not one or the other but both that we are called to minister to.,

When I say this, I am not including my Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus. My hope and joy in Jesus promise me that we will have an Eternity to look forward together with our brethren in a new heavens, with a new earth. I'll not let the darkness which is temporary, and the hardships, the current tribulations we go through, weight me down, nor should it you.

[2Co 4:17-18 KJV] 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding [and] eternal weight of glory; 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.

Amen to that Brother Nick, it is indeed my only hope in this suffering world, but unlike yourself i feel little joy in my existence knowing only too well my own sinfulness and the many horrors that are taking place even as i write this. If i am indeed to love my neighbour as myself, then i can only feel their pain and sorrow as i look around at what we've made of Gods Creation.

Know this Brother Steve. With the Love of Christ Jesus, we endure to the very end for the Glory that is to come! Love you Brother!

Amen to that Brother Nick, it is a narrow and hard road we follow but with Gods Love and strength we will endure to the end

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

YBIC
Nick
\o/

 

[Christ4Ever]

I wondered if you applied that principle to other scenarios Brother Nick, do you think its wrong to take money through taxation to pay for military spending or Policing duties even if the person who is being taxed is vehemently opposed to both. If you believe in Democracy and government, of maintaining order within society through laws, then youre going to have to pay for services and the upkeep of those laws even if youre personally opposed to the laws themselves. Or do you believe that each person has a right to decide what they should contribute to and what laws they should obey?.

Its not so much about forcing someone else to do good, for that is a moral decision, its about trying to build as just and ethical society and world as is possible. One of my favourite passages from the Bible is Micah 6:8, for i believe it encapsulates Gods calling on our lives, " For what does the Lord require of you, but to act Justly, to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your God", Justice, Kindness and Humility which together with Faith should form the bedrock of our lives.

[Mat 22:17-21 KJV] 17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

We're not told to build a "just and ethical society and world as is possible." which is what you are seeing in the attempt in the establishment of the USA, by the founders. That it has failed is no surprise, since slowly but surely God, Jesus, His Word, have slowly been removed from the very society that was meant to be the foundation/light of it to those governing. Attempting it is Dominionism, which I believe is what you are attempting to institute, maybe without realizing it. From what I can see, you are of the belief that by acts of righteousness people will change from unrighteousness. This will never be the case. For without the Holy Spirit within one, that change will never happen, as it has changed every believer. Whether they reflect these traits or not.

No other nation or people will accept it until the return of Jesus, whose unquestionable authority and power will justify its existence. Yet, they will still grind their teeth in defiance!

Although War, violence and persecution have a part to play in the suffering of this world the main cause is poverty, the lack of resources, and as Christ depicted in Matthew 25 31-46, we are called on to feed the hungry, provide water for the thirsty, house the homeless, provide medical aid for the sick, help the prisoner and welcome the stranger, indeed , in the form of the poor and oppressed we encounter Christ himself, and whether we help him or not will decide our salvation or condemnation.

And youre right of course Brother Nick, the suffering and the destruction will continue until Christ returns, but until he does return, we must act as he commanded, to love our neighbour as ourselves and treat others as we'd want to be treated. If we are followers of Christ we must build our lives on the Firm rock of his truth and teachings.

You are still just dealing with the symptoms, and not the cause.

We must do both, we must deal with the Poverty and suffering we see all around this world, and we must also address the root causes that cause and allow that poverty to continue. It isnt an either or Brother Nick but Both, "Justice and Mercy", And when we act in Christs name, then Christ is always "part of the picture", when we "let our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven". Let our love and compassion be not just in words , but in actions, and let those actions be driven by our love of God and our Man and include both "Justice, Mercy and humility".

No, I must disagree with you. In truth the only part that I can see from all this is forced migration, and nothing else, and that is not of God. For it justifies the breaking of laws, in the belief that Jesus has said it's acceptable to do so to fulfill His commandments by forcing others to give them what you cannot do, but in part. That is the furthest from the actual truth, and a distortion of the Gospel we are called to live as believers.

Which is why we must not only pursue alleviating the suffering of our fellow man but also address the root causes of why that suffering exists. Loving others as we love ourselves and treating others as we'd want to be treated is not just a call to tend to their immediate needs but also a call to Justice. For is not our notion of Justice putting ourselves into anothers situation and asking how would i feel if that was me?. If we do this in Christs name how bright will be the light that shines and how great will be the glorifying of God.

It's the method by which you are pursuing it that we disagree with!

We ALL need Jesus Brother Nick, for ALL of us are in need of his compassion and forgiveness, and his truth and understanding. And i cant let go of my Guilt, for i know i am the beneficiary of an evil and corrupt system that puts the majority of the worlds resources into the hands of the priveliged few leaving the mass of humanity to suffer and die in their consequent poverty and deprivation./Their blood is on my hands, i could do and give far more, but my wretched sinfulness , my self interest and lack of self denial and sacrifice prevents me from doing what i know i should. Oh yes, brother Nick, we are ALL in need of Jesus. And the Gospel, Christs teachings, are in all i do, they speak loud and clear as to how my life should be, and my guilt comes from knowing how it is.

Yes, and we receive such blessings by God, through His Son Jesus the Christ. Guilt at one time, I'd say yes, but no longer. In Christ Jesus, He took all that away. Rejoice otherwise, what do you tell the unbeliever; that no matter what you're going to have that guilt of this or that hanging over you forever? Has God not softened your heart of stone into one of flesh, turning what once brought you guilt into something He now uses for good? If you deny this, you make the sacrifice of Jesus and God’s blessings a lie! What should truly move you is not guilt, but love.

No, that is what the flesh craves, but the spirit only my Jesus and Glory Land dear brother! This world only offers, temptation, and a corrupted beauty; that is all. I will not let it take my joy away!

But that is what Christ commands us to do brother Nick, for we are flesh and blood as well as Spirit, and while i understand Christs call that we should "hate our lives and the lives of those around us" because of our sinfulness and corruption, he also says that we should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, ....... it is not one or the other but both that we are called to minister to.,

No, He does not. We are in a corrupted flesh, that constantly battles against the Spirit that is alive in Jesus! We are but temporary residents of a fallen world, holding on to the promises of a new one to come. We are in the World Brother, but we are not of the World. This world is not our home! Don't be fooled by the tactics of the adversary we face daily! He would have you wallow in that guilt that has been washed away by the Blood of Jesus! His tools are deceit/deception/damnation in this world, and in Jesus in this world we have tribulation/toil/victory! Doesn't look very appealing does it. lol Try using that as a welcome to a church! Come on in, and you'll get tribulation/toil, but you'll be victorious in Jesus! Come on down!!!

When I say this, I am not including my Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus. My hope and joy in Jesus promise me that we will have an Eternity to look forward together with our brethren in a new heavens, with a new earth. I'll not let the darkness which is temporary, and the hardships, the current tribulations we go through, weight me down, nor should it you.

[2Co 4:17-18 KJV] 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding [and] eternal weight of glory; 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.

Amen to that Brother Nick, it is indeed my only hope in this suffering world, but unlike yourself i feel little joy in my existence knowing only too well my own sinfulness and the many horrors that are taking place even as i write this. If i am indeed to love my neighbour as myself, then i can only feel their pain and sorrow as i look around at what we've made of Gods Creation.

Yes, so don't do like those who beat themselves with whips as many do in Latin American countries. Yet, it is not your sinfulness and what the atrocities in the world that is what has caused this, but disobedience/sin, which God has cast away for the price of His Son's Sacrifice has been paid! In full! Thinking that if you don't fulfill all His commandments, you'll just be repeating the Garden of Eden all over again, is wrong, wrong, wrong!

Weep if you must if you think those tears will have even one come to Jesus! But not over the guilt of a righteous punishment the world is facing. What is God wrong for punishing the world? What, are your sins more or less then another who is suffering the costs of disobedience, because remember brother, none of us are righteous?

And no, you don't feel their pain. Nor do I, nor can another. What we feel as believers is the futility of not being able to take that pain away that they are going through for them! That is the pain we feel, and that is why we redouble our efforts to being them to Jesus! It is then that what they are going through can be seen as Paul said "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment..." which "worketh for us a far more exceeding eternal weight of glory"! Focus on that dear brother for they'll never be able to see it any other way without Jesus in their lives! Remember, we were once as unaware as they are now, before the Holy Spirit drew us to our Lord and Savior Jesus. Rejoice, even with tears streaming down your cheeks, and offer them Jesus, with the Holy Spirit to bring them comfort. All the world’s comforts can’t compare to that, no matter if you gave away every possession in an attempt to ease their pain.

Amen to that Brother Nick, it is a narrow and hard road we follow but with Gods Love and strength we will endure to the end

Amen & Amen!

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother!
YBIC
Nick
\o/

 

[Brad Huber]

I wondered if you applied that principle to other scenarios Brother Nick, do you think its wrong to take money through taxation to pay for military spending or Policing duties even if the person who is being taxed is vehemently opposed to both. If you believe in Democracy and government, of maintaining order within society through laws, then youre going to have to pay for services and the upkeep of those laws even if youre personally opposed to the laws themselves. Or do you believe that each person has a right to decide what they should contribute to and what laws they should obey?.

Its not so much about forcing someone else to do good, for that is a moral decision, its about trying to build as just and ethical society and world as is possible. One of my favourite passages from the Bible is Micah 6:8, for i believe it encapsulates Gods calling on our lives, " For what does the Lord require of you, but to act Justly, to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your God", Justice, Kindness and Humility which together with Faith should form the bedrock of our lives.

Although War, violence and persecution have a part to play in the suffering of this world the main cause is poverty, the lack of resources, and as Christ depicted in Matthew 25 31-46, we are called on to feed the hungry, provide water for the thirsty, house the homeless, provide medical aid for the sick, help the prisoner and welcome the stranger, indeed , in the form of the poor and oppressed we encounter Christ himself, and whether we help him or not will decide our salvation or condemnation.

And youre right of course Brother Nick, the suffering and the destruction will continue until Christ returns, but until he does return, we must act as he commanded, to love our neighbour as ourselves and treat others as we'd want to be treated. If we are followers of Christ we must build our lives on the Firm rock of his truth and teachings.

We must do both, we must deal with the Poverty and suffering we see all around this world, and we must also address the root causes that cause and allow that poverty to continue. It isnt an either or Brother Nick but Both, "Justice and Mercy", And when we act in Christs name, then Christ is always "part of the picture", when we "let our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven". Let our love and compassion be not just in words , but in actions, and let those actions be driven by our love of God and our Man and include both "Justice, Mercy and humility".

Which is why we must not only pursue alleviating the suffering of our fellow man but also address the root causes of why that suffering exists. Loving others as we love ourselves and treating others as we'd want to be treated is not just a call to tend to their immediate needs but also a call to Justice. For is not our notion of Justice putting ourselves into anothers situation and asking how would i feel if that was me?. If we do this in Christs name how bright will be the light that shines and how great will be the glorifying of God.

We ALL need Jesus Brother Nick, for ALL of us are in need of his compassion and forgiveness, and his truth and understanding. And i cant let go of my Guilt, for i know i am the beneficiary of an evil and corrupt system that puts the majority of the worlds resources into the hands of the priveliged few leaving the mass of humanity to suffer and die in their consequent poverty and deprivation./Their blood is on my hands, i could do and give far more, but my wretched sinfulness , my self interest and lack of self denial and sacrifice prevents me from doing what i know i should. Oh yes, brother Nick, we are ALL in need of Jesus. And the Gospel, Christs teachings, are in all i do, they speak loud and clear as to how my life should be, and my guilt comes from knowing how it is.

But that is what Christ commands us to do brother Nick, for we are flesh and blood as well as Spirit, and while i understand Christs call that we should "hate our lives and the lives of those around us" because of our sinfulness and corruption, he also says that we should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, ....... it is not one or the other but both that we are called to minister to.,

Amen to that Brother Nick, it is indeed my only hope in this suffering world, but unlike yourself i feel little joy in my existence knowing only too well my own sinfulness and the many horrors that are taking place even as i write this. If i am indeed to love my neighbour as myself, then i can only feel their pain and sorrow as i look around at what we've made of Gods Creation.

Amen to that Brother Nick, it is a narrow and hard road we follow but with Gods Love and strength we will endure to the end

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

Although I was not part of this discussion, I would add, that since you agree that "justice" is important.... without good laws, police force, lawyers, judges, without even a military, justice will not be found for the millions living under any nation. A good current example is the corrupt police force and military forces, judges etc of the nation of Iran. The news hasnt reported much on it, but just this year iran has killed tens of thousands of its own people for disagreeing with the ruling elite.... not for killing others, not for destroying property (for the most part) but for simply for the corrupt people in charge not agreeing with the peoples call for justice.