Did Paul loose his gift to heal?
Loyal
Dave, I believe all Christians have all the gifts as needed. A person's special gifts, if I can put it that way, are given according to his/her personality traits. IMO One never loses his gift. He may grow rusty in the use of it if he neglects it but he still has it.
Loyal
Hi Brother @Dave M ,
I have not ever heard that question asked before.
If I may ask, what in your thinking brought you to wonder about this?
Blessings and Love in Christ
Loyal
Personality Traits?
We all have the same commands found in the NT Covenant.
You lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed.
You cast out demons
You bind and Loose.
Then there would be the gift of healing in which God uses them in a more direct way. A ministry directed around healing. Thus a " Healing Ministry"
For the most part I agree with this for it is Written... For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Another Words Withdrawn
That agrees with you.
However one must also Understand that if you get big headed or begin to not be Spirit led then the ANOINTING for such gifts or call WILL be withdrawn until Repentance is made and you get back on track with God.
Blessings and Love in Christ
Loyal
Of course brother as I know it seems like a odd question.
Paul seems to be talking to Timothy here about his constant illness and upset stomach, so the question is, why does he not just heal him as like he was doing in the early days healing people at will
1 Timothy 5:23
(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
Loyal
I used the phrase 'personality traits' because I can't think of any other way to put it right now. LOL, What I tried to say is that God gives each one of us specific gifts....I think, depending on what type of person we are. For example, one that is sensitive may get a gift of healing, plus one or two more. A person who is less sensitive to the needs and feeling of others would get .....say....prophesy, or preaching or teaching.
Loyal
2 Cor 12:7; Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
It is thought that Paul had something that ailed his body, a thorn "in the flesh".
2 Cor 12:8; Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me.
2 Cor 12:9; And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
It seems Paul asked 3 times for this to be removed. But it also seems God had a purpose for not removing it.
Sometimes God doesn't always heal people.
It is thought that Paul had something that ailed his body, a thorn "in the flesh".
2 Cor 12:8; Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me.
2 Cor 12:9; And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
It seems Paul asked 3 times for this to be removed. But it also seems God had a purpose for not removing it.
Sometimes God doesn't always heal people.
Loyal
Yes but at one point in his ministry it seems God was using him for unlimited healings, seems at will by this scripture
Acts 19:11-12
And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.
Loyal
Yes Paul even raised at least one person from the dead.
Acts 20:9; And there was a young man named Eutychus sitting on the window sill, sinking into a deep sleep; and as Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and was picked up dead.
Acts 20:10; But Paul went down and fell upon him, and after embracing him, he said, "Do not be troubled, for his life is in him."
Acts 20:9; And there was a young man named Eutychus sitting on the window sill, sinking into a deep sleep; and as Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and was picked up dead.
Acts 20:10; But Paul went down and fell upon him, and after embracing him, he said, "Do not be troubled, for his life is in him."
Loyal
B-A-C where did you come up with 'Pauls thorn was a disease or a physical handicap'? The bible clearly says it was a messenger of Satan! And where does the bible say that God refused to help? It does not. Christians trust far too much in Chruchianity doctrines and not enough in what the Word says.
People really need to know what Grace is ..And it's NOT mercy... If we don't even know what grace is there is little to no help for us in this life. How can we claim something that we do not even believe exists?!
Loyal
Well it specifically says it was something "in his flesh". Was Satan allowed to put sores on Job?
Job 2:7; Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.
As to the second part of your question. Why did Paul have ask 3 times if God had already taken care of it?
Also why did Paul have to learn to be content in God's grace if God had already taken care of it?
2 Cor 12:10; Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
Why did God tell Paul my grace is sufficient for you, if He had already taken care of it?
Active
In those ancient times they didn't have consistent supplies of safe water to prevent bowl problems. They knew boiling it was good, but that's not practical for any traveler. The usual practice was to mix a little wine (any type or color) with drinking water, the ratio depending upon apparent alcohol content. Travelers could carry enough wine for a trip, easier than carrying enough clean water. Young Timothy might not have had travel experience, suffering a common health problem from ignorance of hazardous food and drink. If Paul was present with Timothy I figure he would have been healed until contaminated again.
I doubt that would kill some modern pathogens like parasites, a really bad one here called cryptosporidium. Hard to kill, our well in town came under a closure act to protect the city's aquifer.
We are blessed to travel and have access to bottled water in most tourist nations. A tour bus in Israel usually has it, but be prepared to pay up to $1 an ounce. It might be less if there's a currency exchange difference. On a tour we were warned not to even put our hand in fountain water in one area. In the restaurants make sure any bottled water offered has an unbroken seal, because locals will sometimes recycle bottles, filling them with local water. Never eat anything from street vendors. Many foreign foods are not cooked like American foods. Peel your own fruit. Use bottled water to clean your toothbrush. I carried an electric cup that boils water, but be sure to carry an international 240 AC plug adapter kit ($25) or buy one there for $90.
While at this, Jesus healed all who came to Him. But when He went to His own home town few were healed because of the unbelief there. I have never been convinced God would apply some disease, or refuse to heal when asked in prayer, or by great faith in a sick person. to teach His children a lesson.
The "sickness" Paul complained about were the Jewish messengers of Satan who constantly plagued his ministry.
Loyal
Well yes it does. "A thorn in the flesh." is a phrase of speech meaning 'An irritation, something that bothers a person, a nuisance.' "There was given me a thorn in the flesh...a messenger of Satan sent to buffet me" There is the nuisance! A messenger of Satan to buffet him. Not poor eyesight, not an illness, but a messenger of Satan...Now read it for yourself. Try it in other versions too.
Second part of the question. Each time Paul asked God to take it away, God said. "My empowering Presence is sufficient for that little task. It took three times before Paul caught on. Basically Paul was asking God to take it away and God was telling Paul "You do the job. My empowering Presence will enable you to do it."
Loyal
Come on now Brother @B-A-C
Paul was teaching Authority in Christ.
God said my Grace is Sufficient and also His Power is seen Great in our weakness.
God in fact told Paul you take care of it.
Second there is no mention of sickness but a messenger of satin to harass him.
We also read where the demon was cast out of the girl and the people were angry because Paul just destroyed their meal ticket.
You can not find one scripture in the NT that says God does not heal.
Loyal
Mat 13:57; And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household."
Mat 13:58; And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.
We will just have to disagree on this.
Matt 13:15; FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'
Mat 13:58; And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.
We will just have to disagree on this.
Matt 13:15; FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'
Loyal
Hi Again Dave,
What I do know is as follows.
Timothy was pastoring the church there. He would know how to stand for a healing.
I read about how they had a lot of bad water at the time and wine worked against the bacteria.
Paul spoke this in a letter to Timothy.
Paul like Jesus was Spirit Led.
Did things and went places under the direction of The Holy Spirit.
Blessings
Loyal
What is this about?
What does this pertain to?
What point are you wanting to make?
Blessings and Love in Christ
Loyal
Good idea.
2 Corinthians 12:7
(AMPC) And to keep me from being puffed up and too much elated by the exceeding greatness (preeminence) of these revelations, there was given me a thorn (a splinter) in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to rack and buffet and harass me, to keep me from being excessively exalted. [Job 2:6]
(ESV) So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
(GNB) But to keep me from being puffed up with pride because of the many wonderful things I saw, I was given a painful physical ailment, which acts as Satan's messenger to beat me and keep me from being proud.
(GW) especially because of the excessive number of revelations that I've had. Therefore, to keep me from becoming conceited, I am forced to deal with a recurring problem. That problem, Satan's messenger, torments me to keep me from being conceited.
(KJV) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
(MKJV) and by the surpassing revelations, lest I be made haughty, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be made haughty.
(MSG) Because of the extravagance of those revelations, and so I wouldn't get a big head, I was given the gift of a handicap to keep me in constant touch with my limitations. Satan's angel did his best to get me down; what he in fact did was push me to my knees. No danger then of walking around high and mighty!
(NAS77) And because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me—to keep me from exalting myself!
(NASB) Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
(NIrV) I could have become proud of myself because of the amazing and wonderful things God has shown me. So I was given a problem that caused pain in my body. It is a messenger from Satan to make me suffer.
(NIV) or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
(NLT) even though I have received such wonderful revelations from God. So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud.
Loyal
So the people were blocking their healing and Jesus cannot override their freewill. Well He could but not legally. He would have to break His own laws to do it. As that Matt 13:15 verse says
because the heart of this people has become dull —
with their ears they barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
so as not to see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their heart,
and do t’shuvah,
so that I could heal them.’
And Oh How He wanted to heal them!
Loyal
Very good. Now notice that each version mentions the messenger of Satan! and lets keep it in context all the while.
2 Corinthians 12:4-7 (CJB)
4 was snatched into Gan-‘Eden and heard things that cannot be put into words, things unlawful for a human being to utter. 5 About such a man I will boast; but about myself I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. 6 If I did want to boast, I would not be foolish; because I would be speaking the truth. But, because of the extraordinary greatness of the revelations, I refrain, so that no one will think more of me than what my words or deeds may warrant. 7 Therefore, to keep me from becoming overly proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from the Adversary to pound away at me, so that I wouldn’t grow conceited.
What do we see? Paul was getting a bunch of revelations, so Satan sent an agent to buffet him so Paul would not get any glory or building up from it. Satan sent an agent to tear Paul down and keep him from getting stronger in the Lord. Well....That's not poor vision is it?
So just because preachers don't want to read the Word as its written we end up with all sorts of confusion and theories taught instead of the truth.