Did Paul loose his gift to heal?

[Fragrant Grace]

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
2 Timothy 4:20

I have heard many preachers/teachers use this verse to say that Paul could no longer heal and that signified the end of the healing ministry.

However, Paul was walking with the Lord and in His power and although we may not fully understand why Trophimus was not healed there would have been a clear reason within God's plan.

 

[Bendito]

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
2 Timothy 4:20

I have heard many preachers/teachers use this verse to say that Paul could no longer heal and that signified the end of the healing ministry.

However, Paul was walking with the Lord and in His power and although we may not fully understand why Trophimus was not healed there would have been a clear reason within God's plan.

Personally, I think it's because of our choices If we choose to believe that the promise is not for us, or we do not deserve the promised gift, or even if the promise is too far fetched in our opinion, we will block that gift. All receiving of the promises of God are by faith in His Word. Jesus could do little in His hometown because of unbelief. Perhaps Trophimus had that problem. And again Satan can fool a person into for example; false humility. "Oh no. I don't deserve that gift, I'm too much of a sinner. Give it someone more worthy. blah blah" That too could block the gift.

 

[Dovegiven]

Personally, I think it's because of our choices If we choose to believe that the promise is not for us, or we do not deserve the promised gift, or even if the promise is too far fetched in our opinion, we will block that gift. All receiving of the promises of God are by faith in His Word. Jesus could do little in His hometown because of unbelief. Perhaps Trophimus had that problem. And again Satan can fool a person into for example; false humility. "Oh no. I don't deserve that gift, I'm too much of a sinner. Give it someone more worthy. blah blah" That too could block the gift.

OK, I am deleting my next post. Well said!

 

[Dovegiven]

Acts 19:11-12 (KJV)
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

When might those have lost any power, any connection, to the desired purpose?

 

[Dovegiven]

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
2 Timothy 4:20

I have heard many preachers/teachers use this verse to say that Paul could no longer heal and that signified the end of the healing ministry.

However, Paul was walking with the Lord and in His power and although we may not fully understand why Trophimus was not healed there would have been a clear reason within God's plan.

When visiting patients in our two hospitals I often run into situations of Christians believing they are suffering for Christ, but facing dialysis or some other dire treatment that just doesn't result in quality life. Many have begged me to deliver them a few buckets of KFC chicken, or some pizzas, weighing well over 300 -400 pounds and more. My thinking is if a person believes they suffer like that for Jesus, why be in a hospital fighting the punishment, or training, or whatever it is they believe they are undergoing? Why fight against the will of God if that's what they believe He is doing to them? I pray "Be it according to your faith" and receive no opposition to that, seeing they usually have no idea what God would prefer.

 

[Bendito]

When visiting patients in our two hospitals I often run into situations of Christians believing they are suffering for Christ, but facing dialysis or some other dire treatment that just doesn't result in quality life. Many have begged me to deliver them a few buckets of KFC chicken, or some pizzas, weighing well over 300 -400 pounds and more. My thinking is if a person believes they suffer like that for Jesus, why be in a hospital fighting the punishment, or training, or whatever it is they believe they are undergoing? Why fight against the will of God if that's what they believe He is doing to them? I pray "Be it according to your faith" and receive no opposition to that, seeing they usually have no idea what God would prefer.

I would love to see a 400 lb pizza. Truly though. Christians really do believe more myth than truth. Anything to justify a lack of knowledge or belief.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @Dave M

grace and peace,

to answer your question, the answer can only be "No".
It is God Who gives and it is God Who takes away, so the idea of 'Paul losing his gift' is not possible

How can we 'lose' something of the Spirit? Sure we can lose all manner of material things , but the gift you ask about is from God, Who alone can give such a gift, and let us be fully persuaded (as was the Apostle) that He Who begins a good work in us will finish it.

The devil is a liar and his mastery is in getting anyone to doubt the promise of God, by any means possible, as he is an opportunist and has no concern about who or what you are, BUT, he is under the authority of our Lord and Saviour, not above Him.


As to the discussion about the thorn in the flesh, has anyone considered the Apostle's use of the word, 'flesh'? Usually it means the carnal man, the old man and the way of the world, not the body, as such.

the arguments thus far presented (not as bad arguments, but wholesome putting forth of ideas, etc) have been tossed around for a long time by churchianity. Yes, we must consider the whole Scripture, but in doing so, let us not leave some parts out.
I am reminded of the Lord's initial words to Saul as he traveled to Damascus with wrong intent. Do you?
Saul, Saul, why do you kick against the pricks?
Could there be a connection between the thorn and the pricks, or goads, which we find in the OT?

Again, the Apostle generally used 'flesh' in reference to that. other than the body of a man, where sickness manifests.
Due to the flesh we may partake of the Breaking of Bread with a fleshy corruption and we are told that many are sick because of that. I do not agree for a moment that the Apostle was such. Do you?

If we look at the passage where the Apostle tells of his three times asking about the thorn in the flesh, can we look at the timing of that and when the three times were and how and where the Apostle was from that time onward?

One thing is for certain that we can and all must agree upon... "My Grace is sufficient for you". That is BIG. let us not skim past such a word.

Grace and Peace to you,


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

I would love to see a 400 lb pizza..

and then what?


Bless you ....><>
ps, i think it was in reference to the weight of the people wanting the fried food. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Dovegiven]

I would love to see a 400 lb pizza. Truly though. Christians really do believe more myth than truth. Anything to justify a lack of knowledge or belief.

I see I left off some grammar. The patients who weigh hundreds of pounds too much beg for pizza and other favorite junk foods even while on dialysis in the dialysis floor, or waiting for a donated kidney or liver, etc. It's a matter of mouth to death instead of simple farm to table.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again, @Dave M

sorry, I should have also said/written

The purpose of the Apostle was not to heal. Healing declares the Word to those Who will believe. A sort of proof. You may find the Apostle's work was primarily about the Gospel and the Salvation of God in and through His Son. There have been a few theories around over the years regarding the few mentioned who were 'not healed' but we do need to see that the purpose of the healing was not only to make folk well but to follow the Message and that Message is Christ and Him Crucified.
In other parts of the NT we see mention about if people believed because the healings etc they saw or because of the Word they heard.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Bendito]

and then what?


Bless you ....><>
ps, i think it was in reference to the weight of the people wanting the fried food. Maybe, maybe not.

LoL I think it was a reference to the people too....Or two, two hundred pound bites?

 

[Bendito]

I see I left off some grammar. The patients who weigh hundreds of pounds too much beg for pizza and other favorite junk foods even while on dialysis in the dialysis floor, or waiting for a donated kidney or liver, etc. It's a matter of mouth to death instead of simple farm to table.

LOL That's ok on the grammar. I got a laugh but we all know what you meant. Hugs on ya. It's just that I had a very productive day writing and I guess I still have some momentum to burn off.

 

[Dovegiven]

Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
2 Timothy 4:20

I have heard many preachers/teachers use this verse to say that Paul could no longer heal and that signified the end of the healing ministry.

However, Paul was walking with the Lord and in His power and although we may not fully understand why Trophimus was not healed there would have been a clear reason within God's plan.

I've been researching about Timothy and ailments of his time. There was but the one mention of stomach problems, and one remedy from Paul. Timothy endured hard and dangerous travel with Paul in the latter half of his second journey, and most if not all of the third. No sick person could do that. Timothy was apparently with Paul in Rome, and continued traveling church to church another 30 years preaching and teaching.

There are stranger cures than mixing a little wine in drinking water. Naaman dipped (protesting, yet obeying Elisha) in the river to have his leprosy healed. Isaiah prescribed a poultice of pressed figs to heal a skin boil. Jesus applied his spit to a blind man, healing him.

 

[Dovegiven]

Personally, I think it's because of our choices If we choose to believe that the promise is not for us, or we do not deserve the promised gift, or even if the promise is too far fetched in our opinion, we will block that gift. All receiving of the promises of God are by faith in His Word. Jesus could do little in His hometown because of unbelief. Perhaps Trophimus had that problem. And again Satan can fool a person into for example; false humility. "Oh no. I don't deserve that gift, I'm too much of a sinner. Give it someone more worthy. blah blah" That too could block the gift.

I do often meet people with terrible health problems who have convinced themselves they are supposed to suffer for Christ with that, or that they must learn some lesson from God to be revealed. I can understand why someone hurts so bad they just can't have healing faith, so even choose to ait to die. The curious part of that philosophy is why they spend their fortunes fighting the health problems, paying many doctors, hospitals, and very expensive medicine with terrible side effects. If they are supposed to suffer for God, why fight it? I quit asking them about that since it never does any good. I suppose most if not all ministers holding their hands convince them to accept their punishment.

As for people having trouble "accepting" spiritual gifts, I don't think there's an acceptance required, as the Holy Spirit assigns those. It then becomes a matter of exercising a gift. We have a choice in that part of the transaction. If we don't use the gift, God will simply move someone else to an opportunity to glorify Him. Moses protested God's assignment, but God didn't take His decision back. Gideon had to have signs to verify his calling.

There's also, as in Moses' estimation, a matter of one's aptitude for certain tasks, like public speaking to a crowd. Having that problem might be solved by the Lord by giving the gift of preaching, or tongues/prophesying. We had a deacon who stuttered so bad he spit all over his chin. But when he sang hymns solo he was of professional grade. When reading the Bible aloud he did it perfectly with no signs of trouble.

Currently I take a day a week to "respite" escort a preacher around town who is about stage 3-4 Alzheimer's. That gives his wife a day off. He had to retire from pastoring, can't figure out how to drive to a destination like his church, will sit staring at a favorite book without reading it, asks the same questions, tells the same few stories over and over. He loves making the nursing home rounds to visit his sheep, and handles that perfectly. He can't read but can stand preaching and quoting perfectly. He can't learn a new name, but can preach a funeral to get folks born again. When he gets back home he sits down and goes back into a trance.

 

[Dave M]

Currently I take a day a week to "respite" escort a preacher around town who is about stage 3-4 Alzheimer's. That gives his wife a day off. He had to retire from pastoring, can't figure out how to drive to a destination like his church, will sit staring at a favorite book without reading it, asks the same questions, tells the same few stories over and over. He loves making the nursing home rounds to visit his sheep, and handles that perfectly. He can't read but can stand preaching and quoting perfectly. He can't learn a new name, but can preach a funeral to get folks born again. When he gets back home he sits down and goes back into a trance.

man how love hearing testimonies like this, thanks for sharing brother.

 

[Dovegiven]

man how love hearing testimonies like this, thanks for sharing brother.

I wrote that to show how even in a deadly disease God can shine through with a miracle. If only I could spend time with him daily, as his wife says he really comes alive the next day remembering the visitation day. She doesn't want anyone to be burdened, so it will be just that one day a week. It was no burden! I learn from that old preacher who has a huge shepherd's heart still. He would spend every day making the whole list of places to visit. We make it to two or three, leaving five more destinations for the next week. She won't let him read the obituaries since he just can't handle the loss of one of his people, but will let him take a funeral occasionally. Those leave him wanting to go on home shouting for joy. She wants him to stay, for she "will have to go on home behind him".

I pray for a speedy treatment for that disease. Multiple researchers are working on the gum disease gingivitis being the main culprit, the brain filling up with tau and amyloid-beta proteins. A vaccine could be near. 99% of current meds for that are ineffective. The following might be gross to Millennials! As folks get older they tend to slack off thorough hygiene, including taking dentures out and cleaning them overnight, and flossing anchor teeth if any, and brushing tongue. I highly recommend to them using a strong mouthwash and seeing a dentist once a year. I know a secret. All age groups neglect that at an alarming rate.

It's amazing. Pastor prays for and coaches the sick into health, but can't figure out he needs to act on faith too, no longer believing he has a problem. So I am praying for mercy from the Lord even for an 80 year old.

I understand. He sees an old man in the mirror he doesn't know. He remembers a younger man in there. He's shaving a man like I need to shave him better.

So today our church has gone Sundays to home church evenings. My group is all under 30, wanting all under 30 to attend. My age group is filled. So this is my home group tonight, though we are trying to build a 70+ group. I am like a duck without a pond Ahah! I see others here on TJ at home! I have a pond!

 

[Dave M]

My group is all under 30, wanting all under 30 to attend.

@Dovegiven those young pups need a guy like you around a man of wisdom

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven those young pups need a guy like you around a man of wisdom

We got a call from one of them needing a scripture. I gave them all URLs for free phone Bibles but apparently they are not experienced using them. Hoo boy....

 

[Dave M]

We got a call from one of them needing a scripture. I gave them all URLs for free phone Bibles but apparently they are not experienced using them. Hoo boy....

thats a new one, the young guy getting advice on technology from the old guy, it usually dont work that way, sounds like you got your hands full LOL

 

[Bendito]

We got a call from one of them needing a scripture. I gave them all URLs for free phone Bibles but apparently they are not experienced using them. Hoo boy....

Kids nowadays!