Did Jesus Have Two Natures?

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

I said: Scriptures teach that Jesus came in a type of body as a sinful man without having received the Holy Ghost yet. Jesus was in a body of flesh as a new born baby in this world. Was it possible for Jesus to sin in His natural body and could He be affected by Satan (the worldly nature as we are) and possibly sin?

You said: Not so.
Read the whole passage. Adam was of no man before him, but from God, a spirit (in the image and likeness of God) in a natural body. When he sinned he died spiritually

Adam was created a living soul from the dust of the Earth. Adam was not a spirit. This is true.

You said: His Father was God, by the Holy Spirit. From that moment Jesus possessed the life of the Spirit, having a soul and natural body like Adam started off with.

This is incorrect: Adam could not be tempted because Satan was not in his heart or mind before he sinned; but Adam and Eve could be deceived. After Adam sinned Satan filled his heart and mind with sin. Jesus could be tempted but He could not be deceived. Jesus is the Word of God and He listened to the wisdom of His Father while being raised.

When scripture says that Jesus was made a quickening spirit it’s talking about a life giving being to present God’s word of life. Jesus did not have a spirit at birth. Jesus was created as a natural baby without the Holy Ghost as I see in scripture. When Jesus was baptized is when Jesus received the Holy Ghost.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the “Spirit of God descending like a dove,” and lighting upon him:

You said: To infer that a Christian can copy what Jesus did concerning sinlessness from the moment of our regeneration is to insult God.

I posed to you before that you should study non-imputation of sin. What you are saying is not correct. Unless you understand imputation and non-imputation of sins you will not understand why God is not imputing sin unto believer. You should also learn why and how unbelievers are condemned with sin.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
I don't speak of or believe in a dual nature. The majority of people on this forum does. You are either alive to the one and dead the other. If you are alive to the sin nature, you are dead to the Righteous nature; and visa-versa.

That "Sin nature" as you label it is simply the former condemnation of the Law against everyone by defining sin while not establishing the standard of righteousness in Christ. Is there no remedy from God if a person in Christ didn't know the Law procribes something impossible for a gentile to accomplish, such as having one's first born son attend the Jerusalem feasts? Jesus has delivered us all from such a "nature". He nailed the commandments that were against us to the cross. There is no active sin nature in any true Christian. There remains only the influence of memory of the Old Man of sin in our minds. Every Christian shoud be submitted to renewal of their mind to that of the mind of Christ. It takes a lifetime, every day of our fleshly lives. Meanwhile we are guided by our position in Christ in the heavenlies, alongside Christ Jesus. We arose with him and are now seated with him in the Spirit, so must submit to learning to live this life according to his commandments. Each of us can do that. Our Head and Body is there beside Father God. Our physical fleshly Self is still here. Help cometh.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

In this post you’ve said many things that causes us to be on the same page. I think you should not be so aggressive as if I’ve said something wrong.

You said: That "Sin nature" as you label it is simply the former condemnation of the Law against everyone by defining sin while not establishing the standard of righteousness in Christ. Is there no remedy from God if a person in Christ didn't know the Law procribes something impossible for a gentile to accomplish, such as having one's first born son attend the Jerusalem feasts? Jesus has delivered us all from such a "nature". He nailed the commandments that were against us to the cross.

The sin nature is Satan having right to abide in the heart of man. Now that Satan has been judged, he is no longer in the hearts of any believer. Jesus abides in our hearts.

You said: Our physical fleshly Self is still here. Help cometh.

Yes, our physical self is still here, but we are dead to the flesh and alive in the Spirit this is why we cannot sin. The old man had no power to influence sin; the old man was corrupt according to the deceitful lust because Satan was in our hearts.

You must walk by faith in how God sees our life.





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[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,

In this post you’ve said many things that causes us to be on the same page. I think you should not be so aggressive as if I’ve said something wrong.

You said: That "Sin nature" as you label it is simply the former condemnation of the Law against everyone by defining sin while not establishing the standard of righteousness in Christ. Is there no remedy from God if a person in Christ didn't know the Law procribes something impossible for a gentile to accomplish, such as having one's first born son attend the Jerusalem feasts? Jesus has delivered us all from such a "nature". He nailed the commandments that were against us to the cross.

The sin nature is Satan having right to abide in the heart of man. Now that Satan has been judged, he is no longer in the hearts of any believer. Jesus abides in our hearts.

You said: Our physical fleshly Self is still here. Help cometh.

Yes, our physical self is still here, but we are dead to the flesh and alive in the Spirit this is why we cannot sin. The old man had no power to influence sin; the old man was corrupt according to the deceitful lust because Satan was in our hearts.

You must walk by faith in how God sees our life.
.

I'm making effort to get to the root of many of your statements, else not touch the branches. leaves or fruit of a subject.

Now you say Satan has a "right" to abide in the heart of man. I need convincing scriptural proof of that. Satan is one being, a fallen angel among 1/3 of all angels that fell by following him. He is not an omnipresent being like God. He is not a god like God is. He is not "SIN". He is the Father of Lies. Lies cause people, and even untold numbers of angels to follow after an evil campaigner. He was defeated by Jesus, stripped of former powers. He goes about like any other angel not bound in the pit. He might be able to inhabit one human at a time, but why do that with so many demons available? They can fit in the thousands (Legion) inside one person. If they had a right to inhabit all men, all men except the last one doing the chaining, would be chained up like the demoniac in the cemetery, the whole world inhabited by insane people, or stampeding off cliffs to drown in the oceans, seas, rivers, lakes like a herd of possessed hogs. Well, thanks be to Jesus that hasn't happened on a regular basis.

Demonic possession should be easy to understand. I doubt God lets babes in the womb, or infants at birth automatically have Satan sweep in. Those usually enter later in life, a small child in a demonic family environment sometimes. Or later like for Judas, Satan entering in long enough to get the man to betray Jesus. We know Satan is probably usually invisible like holy angels until they let you see them, Satan himself appearing as a beautiful angel. His MO is more often simply showing up at the dinner table, in his invisible self, influencing anyone he can, like when Peter insisted Jesus would not suffer.

It is so simple. God gave man the power to choose. We know from the Bible and current history that people can't live without a god. They will invent a god (gods. goddesses) and idols and make it against the law to ignore things like, using a current example, a statue of mother Mary, to be prayed to instead of how the Bible say to pray, and to whom. The object of worship might be something more subtle, like a showroom of antique cars, or an extremely poor widow's treasured bottle of buttons, so much so she won't leave the house without it. Idolatry is a curious subject. Stick with Jesus, worship God alone. The Greeks at Athen's Mars Hill discovered the living God via Paul's teaching. So we know idolaters can switch allegiance.

Until people hear the gospel of Christ preached there is little hope of escaping the influences of idolatry. A meth addict can go beyond the idolatry of the drug effect, which makes them believe they are gods, to being inhabited by demons, possessed, making it all the harder for governments to deal with that problem. Few Christians will touch that problem, especially as dealing with the demons. Most don't believe the Devil is real. He'sto them the guy on the can of devilled ham. Reminding folks of all that demon casting-out in the Bible doesn't help much. So folks watch some folks choose an idol and watch them die. They don't need to be possessed to do that. They do the devil's work for the devils. It's like a drug cartel guy always having other people deliver his products. He is never found guilty of personally delivering. All he has to do is stay at the top, though lately one is caught and on trial.

Lets not give Satan the blame for people going to hell. People choose where they will spend eternity. Those who have forsaken that right need the help of good neighbors. Those in Christ have authority to cast devils out, giving that power of choice back. Man can choose to live with sin, opening up to demonic influences that can ruin a mind.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

You may want to look at my post again; it doesn’t appear you’ve read it correctly. I didn’t say Satan had a right to abide in believers. I said, “The sin nature is Satan having right to abide in the heart of man. Now that Satan has been judged, he is no longer in the hearts of any believer. Jesus abides in our hearts.”

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

This is not talking about the world literally, but it's talking about the hearts of those that will believe. Believers will received a new heart where only Christ abides.

I thought we discussed this before and I clarified my position on this. Let me clarify. The kingdom of Satan and his demon spirits tempts a man to commit fornication, murder, theft, etc. which come from man’s hearts as sin. Unbelievers are slaves to the sin nature (which is the kingdom of Satan) not believers. Sinners are in bondage to the Kingdom of sin/Satan. Everyone on this forum knows that Satan is one being and not omnipresent.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Luk 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

You said: Now you say Satan has a "right" to abide in the heart of man. I need convincing scriptural proof of that. Satan is one being, a fallen angel among 1/3 of all angels that fell by following him. He is not an omnipresent being like God. He is not a god like God is. He is not "SIN".

It’s clear that Satan is not God and I don’t think that way.

1Jo 3:8 He that “commits sin” is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If a person sins they are of the devil, who is the sin nature.

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shall thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lies at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shall rule over him.

Babies are drug addicted from birth because the parent is an addict. That is Satan’s influence on the child. Deformation is of the body is of the devil’s influence from start to finish. Man is born in sin therefore born with the influence of Satan. When man is born in this world they have no knowledge of God and the parents may not know God, so the only spiritual influence they have is Satan who will govern their life without God.

You said: Let’s not give Satan the blame for people going to hell. People choose where they will spend eternity. Those who have forsaken that right need the help of good neighbors. Those in Christ have authority to cast devils out, giving that power of choice back. Man can choose to live with sin, opening up to demonic influences that can ruin a mind.

Satan is to blame because God said Satan is our enemy and if the blind lead the blind they both will go to hell. Satan is the leader of those that are blind in this world. As I showed you in 2Cor. 4:4 above; Satan is the one who blinds man and he is to blame. However, every man will give account of his own works whether they've been blinded or not. God's word is in the world and they can add another subject matter to their life learning skills if they desire. But because sinners and some believers choose not to read scripture for what it says, they will give account.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,

You may want to look at my post again; it doesn’t appear you’ve read it correctly. I didn’t say Satan had a right to abide in believers. I said, “The sin nature is Satan having right to abide in the heart of man. Now that Satan has been judged, he is no longer in the hearts of any believer. Jesus abides in our hearts.”

I did and find you are stuck. It never says Satan had or has any right to live in the heart of any man. He is given opportunity by people, to lord over people who refuse to believe and obey God. His religions (including atheism and humanism) of idolatry resume for them. It isn't necessary for Satan to be present for a man to sin. Sinners sin. No sinner needs Satan's temptation in order to sin.
James 1:13-15 (KJV)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin is at least knowing to do a good thing, but not doing it. Satan might be 5,000 miles away and not at all be aware of a sinner's latest sin. God is. Satan is equal to a stone idol that is duplicated all around a nation, for instance, India with it's Hindu deity features. The religion has captivated people. Satan doesn't have to do a thing, other than try discouraging preachers of the gospel there. Most never heard of Jesus, so they are stuck with those idols instead. That's changing, by the way. They are hearing and believing.

Jesus judged Satan before the cross, and from the cross. That ended his supernatural powers over mankind. The fact that believing on Jesus delivers people out of such idolatry, that many would hear and be made free, was the judgment. No further divine judgment is needed. He has been defeated, does not hold the world in hopelessness, having no power to take any believer from Jesus. But I know a believer can forget his benefits and end up fallen from grace, walking away on his own volition. His destiny is then returning to his sin like a dog to its vomit, apostate.

Sin lies at the feet of people, who are responsible for what they do. Sinners without Christ will be judged for their sins. Satan won't be judged as causing man's sins. He has already been judged, awaits his sentencing in Hell.

That's all I need to say on this thread. Moving on.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
Why are you saying thing like, “you are stuck” as if this is a competition? I sent you scriptural information and you make it into a challenge as if this is some kind of childish game. Man was sold over to Satan/sin after Adam's transgression. A man's heart is a vessel that is filled with the Spirit of God or the spirit of Satan. For clarification; ownership and primary influencer spiritually which causes man to act through deception and emotional force or tribulations. This is why people commit suicide because of the "pressure" of Satan.

G2347 (tribulation)
thlipsis
From G2346; pressure (literally or figuratively): - afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.

These are some of the weapons of Satan's warefare he uses against man in their hearts and minds which causes man to do many evil actions because of how they feel emotionally.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, “sold under sin.”

Joh 8:44 “You are of your father the devil,” and the “lusts of your father you will do.” He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Scripture teaches that we have been “sold over to sin/Satan” and the sin spoken of is the nature of sin. Scripture teaches us that no man can serve two masters, therefore, if you are not born again Satan is in your heart because he is your master (Mat. 6:24). The person born in sin is the servant of sin (Joh. 8:34). A man can only serve from his heart and mind; his spirit and soul. Temptation is understood in the mind and in the heart/will of man especially when it is carried out. A man can “do” nothing without his heart/will being involved.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the “spirit” that now works “in” the children of disobedience:

Mat 15:19 For “out of the heart” proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Satan works “in” the heart of man. If a person does not know God they are slaves to the devil and the devil works in their heart through temptations making them slaves and many become possessed. It is only by God’s mercy that all sinners are not possessed.

You said: Sinners without Christ will be judged for their sins. Satan won't be judged as causing man's sins. He has already been judged, awaits his sentencing in Hell.

Sin and Satan has already been judged and sinners and sin are condemned. I’ve not said otherwise.

Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world “is” judged.


Joh 3:18 He that believes on Jesus is not condemned: but he that believes not “is condemned already,” because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and “for sin,” “condemned sin” in the flesh:

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: “now” shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

It isn't necessary for Satan to be present for a man to sin. Sinners sin. No sinner needs Satan's temptation in order to sin.
James 1:13-15 (KJV)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Hello, I'm curious Dovegiven, have you thought this throuigh and reconcidered this post?