Did Jesus Have Two Natures?

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said: Why would John be writing to unsaved Jews? The epistle can only be received and read by saved believers. There is no known practice of writing to unsaved Jews that is in the New Testament to be read by unsaved Jews. They would not even bother to receive it.

1Jo 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us:wink:

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

The audience here did not know about the things of eternal life, that‘s what John was writing to them about. This is why John said, we “DECLARE” unto you what we have seen and heard and our fellowship is with the Father and the Son. This audience didn’t have that fellowship because they didn’t know Jesus because they were not saved. They didn’t have fellowship with John who was a Christian; if they did, there would be no need for John to declared and show unto them eternal life. These people didn’t have joy because they didn’t know Jesus.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

John begins to tell this audience about the gospel of Christ.

It is troubling that you seem to read His words in that way, especially since John did not say anything about the gospel of Jesus Christ afterwards but told them instead of what it means to abide in Him and that only applies to saved believers.

Just because I declare unto you of Whom I believe or you declaring unto me of Whom you believe, that does not mean either one of us are unbelievers.

Discipleship is separate from salvation and John is wrting to saved believers about what it means to abide in Him and not walk in darkness still.

 

[Bendito]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said: Why would John be writing to unsaved Jews? The epistle can only be received and read by saved believers. There is no known practice of writing to unsaved Jews that is in the New Testament to be read by unsaved Jews. They would not even bother to receive it.

1Jo 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

The audience here did not know about the things of eternal life, that‘s what John was writing to them about. This is why John said, we “DECLARE” unto you what we have seen and heard and our fellowship is with the Father and the Son. This audience didn’t have that fellowship because they didn’t know Jesus because they were not saved. They didn’t have fellowship with John who was a Christian; if they did, there would be no need for John to declared and show unto them eternal life. These people didn’t have joy because they didn’t know Jesus.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

John begins to tell this audience about the gospel of Christ.

So, I went to 1 John 1 and read it, then reread it, and again slowly. Guess what regibassman57? Guess what JesusIs4Me? You're right! It was written for anybody who would read it!!, saved or unsaved. Its a testimony to whoever would read it! You're starting to sound like a couple old coots arguing whether a zebra is white with black stripes or black with white stripes.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,

You said: It is troubling that you seem to read His words in that way, especially since “John did not say anything about the gospel” of Jesus Christ.

You should stop taking things personally. We are only giving and receiving information of what God's word says.

1Jo 1:1 “That which was from the beginning,” which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, “of the Word of life;”

Who did John see from the beginning? What is the word of life? This teaches that John did speak about the Gospel. The Gospel is the word of life which John heard from the beginning and declared unto the audience he was speaking to; which were unbelieving Jews.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath “brought “life” and immortality to light through the gospel”:

If you don’t believe John was preaching the Gospel unto this audience you desire not to believe.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,
You do not understand the importance of understanding the first chapter of 1John. I've already said in my post on 1John 1 that the complete book of John was talking to a mixed audience.The understanding of 1John 1 is the foundation for those believers that say they sin. If 1John 1 is verified it's talking to unbeliving Jews, those that say they sin cannot use first John as a cruch and will have to face the truth that Jesus has taken away sins.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

So, I went to 1 John 1 and read it, then reread it, and again slowly. Guess what regibassman57? Guess what JesusIs4Me? You're right! It was written for anybody who would read it!!, saved or unsaved. Its a testimony to whoever would read it! You're starting to sound like a couple old coots arguing whether a zebra is white with black stripes or black with white stripes.

I am sure unbelievers can and have read the Bible, and some unbelievers walk away as still unbelievers, and so the point goes to John talking about what it means to abide in Him as a saved believer in that sin is still sin that we need Jesus to forgive us of our sins and to help us walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Unsaved cannot have fellowship with the Father if they do not have that seal of adoption to call Him Father..

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said: It is troubling that you seem to read His words in that way, especially since John did not say anything about the gospel of Jesus Christ afterwards but told them instead of what it means to abide in Him and that only applies to saved believers.

Where in 1John 1 does John talk about abiding in Christ?

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,
You said: It is troubling that you seem to read His words in that way, especially since John did not say anything about the gospel of Jesus Christ afterwards but told them instead of what it means to abide in Him and that only applies to saved believers.

Where in 1John 1 does John talk about abiding in Christ?

How else does walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to mean?

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,
You do not understand the importance of understanding the first chapter of 1John. I've already said in my post on 1John 1 that the complete book of John was talking to a mixed audience.The understanding of 1John 1 is the foundation for those believers that say they sin. If 1John 1 is verified it's talking to unbeliving Jews, those that say they sin cannot use first John as a cruch and will have to face the truth that Jesus has taken away sins.

Hmmmm Isn't that what I just said...Whosoever will read it covers saved and non saved alike. The entire bible is written on the KISS principle. It says what it means and it means what it says. Only us silly humans feel we have to translate it into something else.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me.

You said: How else does walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to mean?

Before a person can walk in the light they must confess their sins and then Jesus will forgive them of all sins and unrighteousness (1Joh. 1:9). This is when a person has fellowship with Christ and they will never walk in darkness because they will always be in the body of Christ until the day of judgment.

Joh 8:12 Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, “I am the light of the world”: he that “follows me” “shall not walk in darkness,” but shall have the light of life.

This is what John was talking about concerning the light? This is what John heard from the beginning.

Joh 12:46 “I am come a light into the world,” that whosoever “believes on me” should not “abide in darkness.”

G3306 (abide)
menō
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, “be present,” remain, “stand”, tarry (for), X thine own.

A believer that has come to the light cannot “be present” in darkness because as 1John 1:5 states: there is “no” darkness at all in Christ. If a person says they are a believer and they walk in darkness they are lying (1John 1:6). Darkness is representative of sin.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and “in him is no darkness at all.”

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,

You said: Hmmmm Isn't that what I just said...Whosoever will read it covers saved and non saved alike. The entire bible is written on the KISS principle. It says what it means and it means what it says. Only us silly humans feel we have to translate it into something else.

You said: So, I went to 1 John 1 and read it, then reread it, and again slowly. Guess what regibassman57? Guess what JesusIs4Me? You're right! It was written for anybody who would read it!!, saved or unsaved. Its a testimony to whoever would read it! You're starting to sound like a couple old coots arguing whether a zebra is white with black stripes or black with white stripes.

Maybe I didn’t read your post as you may have meant it. I was clarifying the reason I was writing on First John one. Which I said, If a person believes first John is writing to believing Jews their foundation of deception is gone. But I noticed you are speaking about 1John 1, so no, 1John 1 is not taking about believing Jews. The second chapter starts talking to believing Jews. This is why your comments were out of place.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,

You said: Hmmmm Isn't that what I just said...Whosoever will read it covers saved and non saved alike. The entire bible is written on the KISS principle. It says what it means and it means what it says. Only us silly humans feel we have to translate it into something else.

You said: So, I went to 1 John 1 and read it, then reread it, and again slowly. Guess what regibassman57? Guess what JesusIs4Me? You're right! It was written for anybody who would read it!!, saved or unsaved. Its a testimony to whoever would read it! You're starting to sound like a couple old coots arguing whether a zebra is white with black stripes or black with white stripes.

Maybe I didn’t read your post as you may have meant it. I was clarifying the reason I was writing on First John one. Which I said, If a person believes first John is writing to believing Jews their foundation of deception is gone. But I noticed you are speaking about 1John 1, so no, 1John 1 is not taking about believing Jews. The second chapter starts talking to believing Jews. This is why your comments were out of place.

Today I find my patience levels are almost nothing, so I'm just going to shut up for the rest of the day. Have a nice one.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,

You said: Today I find my patience levels are almost nothing, so I'm just going to shut up for the rest of the day. Have a nice one.

That's what Satan wants you to do. This is the warfare and you know we do not fight agaist flesh and blood. Don't allow youself to stop doing anything you desire to do. Endure the temptation and write. You have to take command while you are in the fire. Say what is on your heart while you are at home on the computer. If you feel like cursing and you cannot control it after trying to resist it, continue to resist. The devil is making you feel this emotional temptation; not any other man. Satan does not want you to learn and share about Christ. What you feel is not you so go against what you feel. If you believe God has put something on your heart to share go ahead and share it. You have the victory.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,

You said: Today I find my patience levels are almost nothing, so I'm just going to shut up for the rest of the day. Have a nice one.

That's what Satan wants you to do. This is the warfare and you know we do not fight agaist flesh and blood. Don't allow youself to stop doing anything you desire to do. Endure the temptation and write. You have to take command while you are in the fire. Say what is on your heart while you are at home on the computer. If you feel like cursing and you cannot control it after trying to resist it, continue to resist. The devil is making you feel this emotional temptation; not any other man. Satan does not want you to learn and share about Christ. What you feel is not you so go against what you feel. If you believe God has put something on your heart to share go ahead and share it. You have the victory.

One does not speak anything that would contradict the Word. That's called 'profanity' The words we speak have power for good or for evil. If I have nothing good to say therefore, I will keep my mouth closed....That's what God says.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,
I thinks that's great that you do not curse, neither do I. Lest people think I was telling you to curse I was not. I was encouraging you to continue to endure it if you felt like it." If you feel like cursing and you cannot control it after trying to resist it, continue to resist."

That's good that you got back online to continue trampling over the power of the enemy. Good Job.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me.

You said: How else does walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to mean?

Before a person can walk in the light they must confess their sins and then Jesus will forgive them of all sins and unrighteousness (1Joh. 1:9). This is when a person has fellowship with Christ and they will never walk in darkness because they will always be in the body of Christ until the day of judgment.

The whole point of the Book of 1 John is to address believers under the mistaken notion that sin is no longer sin to them; that if they do something that is still sin to sinners, it is not sin to saved believers. That was the point of John's message about walking in the light in continuing to have that fellowship with the Father & the Son; indeed, by walking in the light is how the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins.

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So John is addressing saved believers claiming that if WE say WE have fellowship with Him but walk in darkness, then we lie.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Seems straightforward to me that as far as the topic or message goes for application; John is addressing saved believers thinking sin is no longer sin to them if they commit them for why he is correcting them for walking in darkness.

Joh 8:12

Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, “I am the light of the world”: he that “follows me” “shall not walk in darkness,” but shall have the light of life.

This is what John was talking about concerning the light? This is what John heard from the beginning.

That is dependent on if the saved believer follow Him. The reward for following Him will be not walking in darkness.

Joh 12:46 “I am come a light into the world,” that whosoever “believes on me” should not “abide in darkness.”

G3306 (abide)
menō
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, “be present,” remain, “stand”, tarry (for), X thine own.

A believer that has come to the light cannot “be present” in darkness because as 1John 1:5 states: there is “no” darkness at all in Christ. If a person says they are a believer and they walk in darkness they are lying (1John 1:6). Darkness is representative of sin.

1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and “in him is no darkness at all.”

Think of it as an exhortation as well as a warning to stay in the light if they wish to maintain that fellowship with the Father & the Son. Sin is still sin; and no saved believer should be considering that what is sin is no longer sin of they did it.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,

You said: The whole point of the Book of 1 John is to address believers under the mistaken notion that sin is no longer sin to them;

I don’t think trying to understand the whole book of first John is needed if you do not understand 1John 1.

You said: That was the point of John's message about walking in the light in continuing to have that fellowship with the Father & the Son; indeed, by walking in the light is how the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins.

If you’re saying John 8:12 or 12:46 is talking about continuing in the fellowship of Jesus it’s not. John 8:12 Jesus said conditionally “if” you “follow me” you shall not walk in darkness. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees. And John 12:46 was also talking to unbelievers; they haven’t believed yet. That’s why Jesus said, “they that “believe” in me shall not walk in darkness. Jesus was talking to believers in John 8:31, 32.

Joh 8:30 As Jesus spoke these words, many believed on him.

You posted the scripture: 1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

You said: So John is addressing saved believers claiming that if WE say WE have fellowship with Him but walk in darkness, then we lie.

John was not addressing saved believers. John just told these same people in verse 5 – this is the message that we’ve heard of Jesus and we “DECLARE” it unto you. These are the same people as in the second verse of 1John 1:2,3 where John tells them we are declaring this unto you that "you may have fellowship with us". These people did not have fellowship with John, Jesus or with God.

These people John is talking to did not have fellowship with John, Jesus or God the Father.

G312 (declare)
anaggellō
From G303 and the base of G32; to announce (in detail): - declare, rehearse, report, show, speak, tell.

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard “declare we unto you,” that “you also may have fellowship “WITH US”: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Dovegiven]

Many believers say they are alive to both natures; the sin nature and the Righteous born again nature. Does scripture teach this?

No.

Scriptures teach that Jesus came in a type of body as a sinful man without having received the Holy Ghost yet. Jesus was in a body of flesh as a new born baby in this world. Was it possible for Jesus to sin in His natural body and could He be affected by Satan (the worldly nature as we are) and possibly sin?

Not so.
1 Corinthians 15:45-50 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Read the whole passage. Adam was of no man before him, but from God, a spirit (in the image and likeness of God)in a natural body. When he sinned he died spiritually. He remained a natural man living with a dead spirit, with no hope. There was no savior for him, none to restore spirit life. His lonely soul occupied his natural body until dying nine centuries later.

Jesus was conceived in the woman according to God's promise to Eve. His Father was God, by the Holy Spirit. From that moment Jesus possessed the life of the Spirit, having a soul and natural body like Adam started off with. The difference between Adam and Jesus is enormous, in that Jesus didn't have that spirit curse on him, and did not sin. That qualified Jesus to be our Second Man Adam, Savior through faith in Him who alone was sinless, the sinless lamb of God reserved for the cross. Jesus carried out what Adam should have maintained, enabling him to have lived healthy all along to this day. But he alone instead bears the fault of death entering into creation.

All of us link back to the fallen man Adam. His offspring carried his curse, being dead spiritually from conception. Each of us has a dead "Old Man" in our history, an "It" that must be destroyed in our lifetime. Upon being born again by the gospel of Christ, we find spiritual life within which never existed before in us. We in a sense are set in a blessed state Adam enjoyed a little while, but forsook, that Jesus enjoyed all his days.

That life is our only hope in ridding any influence of that "It" that drives people into sin consciousness. That life of Christ in us is the power of God to overcome sin, to render that "It" we were born with, to pass from our conscience. We begin realizing the very mind of Christ, that gift given in whole at rebirth, enabling a renewal of our mind. As that proceeds we then are found less and less prone to sin, more and more living holy lives with a righteousness conscience. Our very conscience at last confirms within, needing no man to convince us we are indeed made free. The great promises are for those who overcome sin while in the natural body.

Did Jesus have two natures when He was born of Mary and of the Spirit in the flesh?

Was Jesus in the flesh and in the Spirit as born again believers are today; did he have two nature?

No. Jesus was born with God as his very father, but never had death in him, only life. He kept that life in spite of being tempted by Satan like Satan tempted the first man.

No other human can claim having been born with a live spirit like Jesus had at birth. However, the way is made for each of us to receive the life Jesus offers. That way requires a total devotion of obedience to finish in us the final product desired by God.

To infer that a Christian can copy what Jesus did concerning sinlessness from the moment of our regeneration is to insult God. None of us is suitable to hang on a cross dying for the sins of the world. Our only hope remains in trusting Jesus to be the only sacrifice, the only Lamb of God.

Get on track with 2 Peter 1, grow, pursue the mind of Christ to a perfect man well equipped. In doing so you will overcome.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
Before I continue replying to your post, I want to make sure this is correct?

I said: Many believers say they are alive to both natures; the sin nature and the Righteous born again nature. Does scripture teach this?

You said: No.

Are you sure of your answer?

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
Before I continue replying to your post, I want to make sure this is correct?

I said: Many believers say they are alive to both natures; the sin nature and the Righteous born again nature. Does scripture teach this?

You said: No.

Are you sure of your answer?

Many Christians do believe that, but that doesn't mean it's true. None can be alive to anything dead. The closest a person can get in the flesh is digging up the corpse of a loved one and strapping it to one's backside, walking about like that. That person is alive only to his own choice, not the corpse which has no real power.

Soulwise, it's like a slave stuck in a remote desert ranch. All he knows is that life. One fine day he sees a man on the horizon, so makes ready to greet that rare visitor. The visitor arrives, tells the slave he has been set free, and has the document to prove it. The visitor leaves abruptly, letting the slave keep his paper. The slave contemplates the paper. "What would life be out there? Then he smells the aroma of a pot of beans, the cook making a big supper, then decides to go eat instead of heeding the paper. He was "set" free but not "made" free. Had the visitor taught him andled him out to a better life, the slave would have been "made" free. Most only know the present, ignorant of a better future, so the slave chooses not to act on the offer. He goes nowhere, choosing the beggarly elements, serving the familiar master easier than going into newness.

Maybe you are thinking of the "battlefield of the mind". It's all about what one thinks about, the mind caving in to a corrupted conscience, etc. There is no "dual nature" like you speak of.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
I don't speak of or believe in a dual nature. The majority of people on this forum does. You are either alive to the one and dead the other. If you are alive to the sin nature, you are dead to the Righteous nature; and visa-versa.