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Did any of Abraham’s brothers sin?
Member
Sue, in the scriptures we read many occasions where the first born son sinned. The Father’s first born son is always (initially, at least), also the:
Sue, we have Cain, first born of Adam, ALSO firstborn, because, like Eve said, ‘God has given us a man from our own self’ (paraphrased!!). And also, scriptures says, ‘he that opens the womb is the most beloved...’ Like 2:23...(just to back up the definition!)
But Cain sinned and was discharged as ‘Most Beloved’... he remain ‘First Born’... cannot change that - but his status as ‘Most beloved’ is taken away...
So where else is this seen... and hence my question:
All of these great patriarchs we know that their eldest sibling sinned. So I was asking if it was the same with Abraham.
Was Abraham the eldest son, who was the eldest brother (Abram; Haran; Nahor)?
- ‘Firstborn’... —-> ‘Most Beloved of the Father’
- ‘First Born’... —-> ‘First child born, flesh for flesh, chronologically, of a parent (Father)’
Sue, we have Cain, first born of Adam, ALSO firstborn, because, like Eve said, ‘God has given us a man from our own self’ (paraphrased!!). And also, scriptures says, ‘he that opens the womb is the most beloved...’ Like 2:23...(just to back up the definition!)
But Cain sinned and was discharged as ‘Most Beloved’... he remain ‘First Born’... cannot change that - but his status as ‘Most beloved’ is taken away...
- Psalm 109:8
- Acts 1:20
- Genesis 4:25
- Daniel 2:21
So where else is this seen... and hence my question:
- Cain -> Seth ... was born to replace Abel who became firstborn but was killed by Cain (Cain first sinned by not offering the best of his produce tkGod. Then sinned further by killing Abel)
- ..??.. -> Abr[ah]am
- Ishmael -> Isaac (Abraham initially LOVED Ishmael!!! until Ishmael started bullying Isaac)
- Esau -> Jacob (Esau gave up his birthright to Jacob... not good!!)
- Rueben -> Joseph
- Eliab -> David
- .... -> Solomon
All of these great patriarchs we know that their eldest sibling sinned. So I was asking if it was the same with Abraham.
Was Abraham the eldest son, who was the eldest brother (Abram; Haran; Nahor)?
Loyal
For one thing -- God promised Sarah and Abraham that He would give them a child in their old age. Sarah laughed within herself because both she and Abraham were Way past child-bearing years. Sarah proceeded to follow cultural practices and gave her handmaid to Abraham to have a child with. Ishmael was born first and then Isaac was their Natural child.
The fact is is that Everyone is a sinner.
As soon as you said "I know why" -- my inner warning flashers started 'going'.
So -- Why did the translators use the two closely related words? More than likely because they felt the context warranted it. I'm not going to debate the subject.
Cain did kill Abel and then later on Seth was born. But 'another son of the Father'? Capitalizing Father makes Him God the Father. The Father did not give birth to anyone. Adam the their father. Eve is simply commenting that God had blessed her with another son. She was Not acknowledging that God the Father was the father of her children. Notice the difference between "F" and "f".
At some time or another Every first-born child Does Die. It's part of life.
Seems that just Maybe - you're trying to make a 'deal' where there is no 'deal'.
But -- trying to answer your question -- back in Genesis 11 ; 27 Terah begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran died before his father. Then Abram and Nahor took wives and from there , there's really no record of Nahor.
Scripture doesn't tell us the birth order and apparently it doesn't matter or we'd be told.
I Have just noticed that there is both a city of Haran and one of Terah's sons being Haran. In verse 31 we find Haran both a town and a person. Which can be confusing.
The fact is is that Everyone is a sinner.
As soon as you said "I know why" -- my inner warning flashers started 'going'.
So -- Why did the translators use the two closely related words? More than likely because they felt the context warranted it. I'm not going to debate the subject.
Cain did kill Abel and then later on Seth was born. But 'another son of the Father'? Capitalizing Father makes Him God the Father. The Father did not give birth to anyone. Adam the their father. Eve is simply commenting that God had blessed her with another son. She was Not acknowledging that God the Father was the father of her children. Notice the difference between "F" and "f".
At some time or another Every first-born child Does Die. It's part of life.
Seems that just Maybe - you're trying to make a 'deal' where there is no 'deal'.
But -- trying to answer your question -- back in Genesis 11 ; 27 Terah begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran died before his father. Then Abram and Nahor took wives and from there , there's really no record of Nahor.
Scripture doesn't tell us the birth order and apparently it doesn't matter or we'd be told.
I Have just noticed that there is both a city of Haran and one of Terah's sons being Haran. In verse 31 we find Haran both a town and a person. Which can be confusing.
Member
Hi Sue, I did not make a preferential distinction between ‘F’and ‘f’.... I just meant, ‘the father who spawned the child’... Capitalisations are for our own preferential understanding ... it is not a scriptural difference. I’m not understanding how you thought I meant that ‘God birthed him’... the context warranted flesh from flesh birth... there are only two Spirit-Flesh CREATIONS:
Both man and animals Procreate of their own...
Notice that it was ‘GOD’ who made man in his own image... not the ‘us’ image... The ANGELS made the body (which is just flesh, a closure, an enclosure, a device, a mechanism) for the sentient Spirit to make use of. The spirit acts to maintain the body and use it to perform all things it deems possible in line with the physical laws of the created world. The spirit desires at all normal times to protect the body it is enclosed in from harm (not always successfully!!) but also restrains it from possibilities that are within scope of its ability. That is why Jesus often got exasperated at why some people could not do things ... he got around it by offering them ‘Faith’ that the thing could be achieved...(with help from the Holy Spirit of God).
But enough of background stuff!
Yes, I didn’t see anything about the order of birth of Abraham and his sibling nor if any sinned....
and sue, that is why I asked the question.
Are you to say to me that I shouldn’t ask a question because you don’t have an answer... or you don’t think it’s relevant?
No... not everyone knows has an answer - but then, SOMEONE might. There are those who study deeper and more diligently than others on SPECIFIC matters ... if they are on this forum then fantastic, let them answer - but don’t say it is irrelevant because YOU don’t know or care!!
I was (am) compiling a list... I see a pattern. I want to extend the list if it’s possible.
Are you trying at shaming me for ‘Searching the Scriptures’? Putting me down for ‘Just Asking’?
- Adam, and
- Jesus
- Created (Spirit given)
- Sentient: Angels, Man, Animals
- Pro-Creation (Flesh from Flesh)
- Man, animals
Both man and animals Procreate of their own...
- SPIRIT does not procreate
- Angels, are Spirits, and do not procreate ...
- God, the Father, is Spirit and does not Procreate...
- ‘The man BECAME a living soul’
Notice that it was ‘GOD’ who made man in his own image... not the ‘us’ image... The ANGELS made the body (which is just flesh, a closure, an enclosure, a device, a mechanism) for the sentient Spirit to make use of. The spirit acts to maintain the body and use it to perform all things it deems possible in line with the physical laws of the created world. The spirit desires at all normal times to protect the body it is enclosed in from harm (not always successfully!!) but also restrains it from possibilities that are within scope of its ability. That is why Jesus often got exasperated at why some people could not do things ... he got around it by offering them ‘Faith’ that the thing could be achieved...(with help from the Holy Spirit of God).
But enough of background stuff!
Yes, I didn’t see anything about the order of birth of Abraham and his sibling nor if any sinned....
and sue, that is why I asked the question.
Are you to say to me that I shouldn’t ask a question because you don’t have an answer... or you don’t think it’s relevant?
No... not everyone knows has an answer - but then, SOMEONE might. There are those who study deeper and more diligently than others on SPECIFIC matters ... if they are on this forum then fantastic, let them answer - but don’t say it is irrelevant because YOU don’t know or care!!
I was (am) compiling a list... I see a pattern. I want to extend the list if it’s possible.
Are you trying at shaming me for ‘Searching the Scriptures’? Putting me down for ‘Just Asking’?
Loyal
I was showing you from Scripture what it says. Scripture didn't have an answer for your question.
You wondered if any of them sinned -- of Course they sinned. Everyone ever born has sinned.
In Scripture "F" is referring to God the Father.
There Are people who believe that God 'fathered' children. That is why I made sure that You understood what I was talking about.
What do you mean by Jesus being a 'Spirit-flesh' creation'?
Mankind do Not become angels. People do Not become angels when they die. If that's what you're suggesting.
Why bring up the Nephilims And Where did you get Your information.
Look at Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness , et.
Never trying to shame anyone -- just pointing out Scripture.
You wondered if any of them sinned -- of Course they sinned. Everyone ever born has sinned.
In Scripture "F" is referring to God the Father.
There Are people who believe that God 'fathered' children. That is why I made sure that You understood what I was talking about.
What do you mean by Jesus being a 'Spirit-flesh' creation'?
Mankind do Not become angels. People do Not become angels when they die. If that's what you're suggesting.
Why bring up the Nephilims And Where did you get Your information.
Look at Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness , et.
Never trying to shame anyone -- just pointing out Scripture.
Member
Haran and Nahor were brothers of the great patriarch, Abraham.
Why did Almighty God choose Abram (Abraham) for the covenant rather than either of abram’s brothers?
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him -Gen 18:19
God often takes the underqualified and equips them for His glory. Abraham seem to have a quality God saw in Him that was important to His purpose.
He knew Abraham would not only follow His ways but teach his household in the way. This is integral in building a nation, hence why God chose him.