Devil rebelion

[Chad]

If I end up concluding that no one on this forum want's to talk to me I will stop talking here... until that, my hope is to find some here that correct me if I'm wrong or accept to be corrected if I show them their mistakes.

Problem is you are not listening nor are you teachable.

 

[farout]

Hi Farout...

As long as I see that someone is being sincere in their questions I will always answer... if I take some time is because I didn't have the time, especially at weekends.

It does not takes much conclusion Farout... GOD says it self, you surely now the most common verse don't you?
What people do with it is searching for similar words that might fit so the original message become changed. But the Bible are not random verses, they carry a message, and when that message is disturbed its noticeable by who owns the spirit of GOD which guides him through the all truth .

So something that should be obvious becomes like it ins't there...
However this should be reason enough...

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}."
Is 45:7

Sadly, its not... but if this is not, how to be more explicit than this? How to answer to someone that having this in his face asks for scriptures that support it?

GOD creates everything, nothing exists that is out of his will ... if HE didn't want something to exist HE would simply make it not exist. Or does HE have not the power to do it so?
So why do evil exists? Does it supports it self without GOD?

Tell me Farout, why should this even be questioned? If HE says HE creates evil why should we not believe it?

Evil was a result of Adams sin?
Think Farout... Was the tree out of GOD's control? Was the consequence of sin out of HIS will? Was sin it self not under HIS word?
Isn't killing a sin? Why did Saul sinned by NOT killing then? Who inverted sin that time? Even sin is sin if GOD says so... HE defines what sin is, even sin exists according to HIS will.

Man??? Man just fall into a temptation, he didn't create nothing... but who cursed all? Man or GOD? Who cursed men, women, the serpent, and the World?

If GOD wanted could he not just let Adam eat of the fruit without consequences? Who made those consequences? Who made Adam vulnerable to temptation? Who made the serpent so smart and put it together with man and the forbidden tree that HE also created in the center of the garden?
Before HE build the universe did HE not know that by doing all this way that Adam would fall? Still, HE did it this way... why do you think HE did?

Did HE not know before making that rule that Adam would break it? Couldn't HE have made Adam smart and strong enough to resist the temptation?

Farout, saying that HE did not create Evil is saying that HE failed.... is saying that HE planned something and could not make it work... and now HE's trying to patch it up using a status (perfect) that does not belong to him.

But GOD is perfect... that is why HE created evil.

Sargento: Is your theory agreed to by anone other than you ? Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden, because the used their free will. God made it very clear not them, not to partake of the tree. Satan distorted the truth, lied, tempted Eve and she of her own free will choose to sin, so did Adam.

When given the choice to please God or not to please God, we have a choice. That choice is free will. To give man free will does not mean God created evil ! Free will means that God did not creat us with no ability to love, but simply to follow Him. Free will allows us, as He did Adam and EVe the choice to love and obey or not to. That's not creating evil. Mankind has created veil by choice.

Take for example water, if we jump in 20 feet of water and trying to breath, is not possible. Does that mean that we created death because wetried to breath water ? No, Death is the free will of us disbelievimg you can't breathe water thus death was a choice.

Again can you please tell me of any theologin who agrees with you conclusion ? "Surely" used in a sentence is a way to make someone look stupid, please show respect by not attempting to put down someone else down, that's basic to what Jesus said, to love one another.

 

[Sargento]

Hi Chad...

Problem is you are not listening nor are you teachable.

I am listening Chad... I've been answering everything.. or did I miss something? But some (not all) do not answer me, instead they change the direction of what we're talking about... every time they find a dead end they change, is that a conversation looking out for the truth?
That is not debating that is hiding... if every time you show someone their mistakes they move on to something else and pretend not to see it is that fair? Is that a correct procedure?
That is not even discussing, that is trying to "catch" me but not being willing to be wrong... that is a fake search for truth my friend.

The right way to discuss is, if were talking about something, or a verse, then let's take it to the end until it's obvious if such interpretation is right or wrong... now, if every time I show someone is wrong, or even come close to it they move on what good is that???
AGAIN, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL.

And if someone shows me I'm wrong in some matter of course I'll learn, but If they can't what will I learn? Teach me and I'll learn... I'm not saying you can't, but no one did until now in this forum at least...

Ok, give them one example of something I've ignored or should have learned and I'll look at it again carefully Chad...




Now take this post of Farout (the one below yours) has an example...

How many of my arguments were considered???? Read them and see for your self.
I showed him verses, made arguments, made him questions, but what feed back did I get from it???? It's like I haven't even wrote anything... because all I got from him was a personal vision and personal statements that go DIRECTLY against the verse I've shown... AM I WRONG CHAD??? ... or is this post of Farout suppose to teach me something like "I must be wrong because theologians do not agree with me"?
He didn't even tried to refute me, he just moved along...

If I show bible they run to human logic, If I show the truth by logic they become blind and can only see bible (parts of it)... I show wisdom they run to the Bible, I show the bible they run to wisdom ... never stand or assume one position... should I be learning???

FAROUT...

I'm sorry, but it's what I've just told Chad... you've ignored all I said.

IS IT NOT WRITTEN THAT GOD CREATE EVIL?

 

[spirit1st]

Here is the main problem when talking about scriptures?

One sees them spiritually and the other sees it carnal .

Both can be Born -Again . Just one matured more spiritually .

Our beginning in the LORD? Begins a spiritual walk ,that never ends.

Gal_3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Co_3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Even posting scriptures that reveal the correct understanding, They will not see it .

We Do not have the power to open anyone understanding. Only the Holy Ghost can do that in our lives.

But when you say ?You know it all ? Then I doubt you know much ?

 

[brakelite]

Brakelite...

If love cannot be invented (and this is right concerning to man's will) why do you say you CHOOSE to love? If you do not love can you invent love for your self just because you decide?

Or do you decide BECAUSE you love? What comes first?

Any love that is fruit of your decision is false... the true love (like any other felling) is the one that is INVOLUNTARILY. That is not provoked, better yet, simulated, by you.
I f there is something that comes closer to appear free is ACTIONS, not feelings.... but even actions are not free although they might appear that way... but for now you're talking about love.

If a son of yours tell you that he love's you more than anyone, and you with a smile ask him why, and he tell's you that's because he decided what will you think??? Will you even listen to it??

You do have a will, but it is not free nor it could be.

I'm waiting for the answers of ALL of you.

Love is not only a feeling, or emotion. It can and for the most part is a deliberate decision to put someone else first instead of yourself. That my friend is love. And that is precisely the love demonstrated by Christ in the garden of Gethsemane and on Calvary. His demonstration of love was a perfect reflection of His Father's love. With that in mind, please answer this:
To who's benefit is it that God created any person evil.? Is it to God's benefit, or the evil person who's end is destruction?

 

[brakelite]

About Adam and Eve and Devil and the creation of Evil... GOD himself tells us that HE created evil with all the letters .... HE says it directly so there's no doubt .

Yes, the Bible says God created evil, even from His own lips. I did explain somewhere that this evil God created is in the forms of judgment and upheaval designed for rebuke and chastening. Nowhere Sargento does the Bible say that God created Man evil. When God finished His creation He plainly stated it was "very good". As most others have testified, Adam and Eve chose to disobey.

Unless of course you claim that God says "do this" knowing one can't do it? That it is impossible for us to obey in our own strength, I confess is very true, but in the power and Spirit of God all things are possible to them that believe. This was the same for Adam, for Israel throughout the OT, for us today. Adam chose not to believe. Eve believed Satan was telling the truth when he suggested God was holding out on them, Thus she thought God was a liar, Adam believed Eve when she suggested he eat it, seeing she had done so and nothing had changed. Both refused to believe God when He said "eat and die".

 

[james1523]

Yes, the Bible says God created evil, even from His own lips. I did explain somewhere that this evil God created is in the forms of judgment and upheaval designed for rebuke and chastening. Nowhere Sargento does the Bible say that God created Man evil. When God finished His creation He plainly stated it was "very good". As most others have testified, Adam and Eve chose to disobey.

Amen. God created evil in the sense of disasters etc. But he did not create evil in the sense of sin or disobedience.

How could God create something which is against His own will.
How could the God who commands obedience create disobedience.

If God created evil in the sense of sin, or disobedience...
This means God purposefully created something which He didn't want.
If God does things He does not want to do, then this means God is compelled.
If God is compelled to do what He does not want to do, then God is not God.

 

[Sargento]

BRAKELITE...

Love is not only a feeling, or emotion. It can and for the most part is a deliberate decision to put someone else first instead of yourself. That my friend is love. And that is precisely the love demonstrated by Christ in the garden of Gethsemane and on Calvary. His demonstration of love was a perfect reflection of His Father's love. With that in mind, please answer this:
To who's benefit is it that God created any person evil.? Is it to God's benefit, or the evil person who's end is destruction?

Has usual, my questions were not answered... instead a new speech is presented and mine ignored.
No... that my friend, are actions ... and this actions can be driven by love or hate depending on the intentions (depending on the heart which you can't change) ....
LOVE is in the heart, not hands.

If GOD created Evil what is your problem with HE creating man evil?
Would Eve desire something that GOD forbid if there was no evil in hear?
Will an animal desire meat if he is not carnivore?

God said it wall all good? Yes, including the serpent and the fruit that killed man... Good indeed, but not according to men's standards...
...was the serpent good for man?
Was the fruit good for man?

All good, but goodness killed man... how can that be? Think Brakelite...

Adam chose not to believe.

Brakelite, open your eyes... do you have the power to choose what you believe in?
Do you not know what is to believe either?
Or do you take it for actions also?
All the Bible talks about heart and spirit, the being, the new or old creature, the soul , but for you all mean works.

If you see a red car in front of you can you BELIEVE it's blue?... well, maybe you think that ACTING like you believe means you believe.
Do you know what kind of LIE Jesus meant when HE said the Devil was it's father? THIS LIE... to pretend BY WORKS to be something you're not in you're heart (you are your heart). False testimonial of works.

Amen. God created evil in the sense of disasters etc. But he did not create evil in the sense of sin or disobedience.

How could God create something which is against His own will.
How could the God who commands obedience create disobedience.

If God created evil in the sense of sin, or disobedience...
This means God purposefully created something which He didn't want.
If God does things He does not want to do, then this means God is compelled.
If God is compelled to do what He does not want to do, then God is not God.

[ironic]Sure thing... sin exists by it self... some other creator than GOD.[/ironic]
REALLY?

O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, {and} hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.​

Isaiah 63:17​

 

[Chad]

BRAKELITE...



Has usual, my questions were not answered... instead a new speech is presented and mine ignored.
No... that my friend, are actions ... and this actions can be driven by love or hate depending on the intentions (depending on the heart which you can't change) ....
LOVE is in the heart, not hands.

If GOD created Evil what is your problem with HE creating man evil?
Would Eve desire something that GOD forbid if there was no evil in hear?
Will an animal desire meat if he is not carnivore?

God said it wall all good? Yes, including the serpent and the fruit that killed man... Good indeed, but not according to men's standards...
...was the serpent good for man?
Was the fruit good for man?

All good, but goodness killed man... how can that be? Think Brakelite...



Brakelite, open your eyes... do you have the power to choose what you believe in?
Do you not know what is to believe either?
Or do you take it for actions also?
All the Bible talks about heart and spirit, the being, the new or old creature, the soul , but for you all mean works.

If you see a red car in front of you can you BELIEVE it's blue?... well, maybe you think that ACTING like you believe means you believe.
Do you know what kind of LIE Jesus meant when HE said the Devil was it's father? THIS LIE... to pretend BY WORKS to be something you're not in you're heart (you are your heart). False testimonial of works.




[ironic]Sure thing... sin exists by it self... some other creator than GOD.[/ironic]
REALLY?

O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, {and} hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.​

Isaiah 63:17​

Account closed. Enough of your false teaching.