Conditional salvation?

[RJ]

So you are agreeing... there are conditions and requirements?

No, you insist there are. I just don't know how many ways to say it: “Salvation” is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it” (Ephesians 2:9).
You just can't believe it because you can't rationalize you not doing SOMETHING, right?
What does the word say? Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Your salvation and initial faith is a gift of God, called Grace. Your condition and requirement is in the hands of God and nothing you can do to earn it or change it.
You have faith, right? Just accept the fact that God gave that to you. From there, thank God for EVERYTHING and continue to grow in faith through his holy word. God knew what would happen to you before the foundation of the universe. Don't spend too much time trying to understand it, it is too perfect and powerful to conceive totally. Just accept the fact that he is perfect and his plan of salvation must also be perfect, therefore he took everything out of your control, which you would just mess up anyway!

 

[Christ4Ever]

this always been what i run to, esp when i err
hey, i don't like the heat in this thread, or maybe i don't like apologetics....praise God for differences!!

Nothing like when a family gets into a deep discussion! For we are Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus. There is no one here that has been posting that would say that another is not saved or will not have salvation. They might say another is confused about it, but not to the point where the persons salvation is questioned, only their knowledge/understanding.

You will notice if you go back from enough in threads, that what is happening here is something that periodically happens and I'm sure will continue to occur. However, as long as we continue in love of God and all others. Most assuredly we will learn to appreciate how He has brought us together to realize how loving, merciful, faithful, and awesome He is. Working in His will and not our own.

Reading scripture reflects the factual/historical and differing thoughts among the early church and even the Apostles had. :thumbsup:Still, that love they had for each other did not diminish, though I'm sure it was tried at times! :whistle :laugh:

Neither side will agree. There will, I pray be always respect. With hopefully a love for each other that only families bonded by the Blood of Christ can appreciate or be able to do.
YBIC
C4E
<>

 

[Bendito]

Nothing like when a family gets into a deep discussion! For we are Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus. There is no one here that has been posting that would say that another is not saved or will not have salvation. They might say another is confused about it, but not to the point where the persons salvation is questioned, only their knowledge/understanding.

You will notice if you go back from enough in threads, that what is happening here is something that periodically happens and I'm sure will continue to occur. However, as long as we continue in love of God and all others. Most assuredly we will learn to appreciate how He has brought us together to realize how loving, merciful, faithful, and awesome He is. Working in His will and not our own.

Reading scripture reflects the factual/historical and differing thoughts among the early church and even the Apostles had. :thumbsup:Still, that love they had for each other did not diminish, though I'm sure it was tried at times! :whistle :laugh:

Neither side will agree. There will, I pray be always respect. With hopefully a love for each other that only families bonded by the Blood of Christ can appreciate or be able to do.
YBIC
C4E
<>

Good post When family can disagree, and agree to discuss it there can be a lot learned, and tremendous growth because of it. So disagree but never step out of Love. Never accuse or degrade anyone..Let Love have His way.

 

[Chad]

Great topic. I've only skimmed through the responses but some great thoughts and perspectives shared here.

First things first: the Cross.

The Cross portrays grace, love, forgiveness, hope, restoration, many second chances (we all stumble even as born again Christians 1 John 1:9).

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

God is for us, not against us. He longs for our hearts, surrendered to Him. This is clear all over scripture in both the OT and NT. Of course, ultimately expressed through Jesus' dying on the Cross. There's no trickery with God. If we mess up and repent, grieve because of our sin He knows.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

A born again believer is moved by the Holy Spirit working in them. If they are truly born again, they will bear fruit.

 

[Christ4Ever]

How we "get" saved... and how we "stay" saved may not be the same thing.
Perhaps we do nothing to "get" saved. But believe.... yet even belief has to be tested.

So it seems like you saying, I can continue in adultery, pornography, homosexuality, child-molestation, murder
lying and thievery and as long as I believe in Jesus... I've saved.

This is definitely a false doctrine.

I agree brother, but with a stipulation. The reason I agree is as follows. Let's take a look at the use of the word I highlighted that you used in your reply and is also found in scripture (1 John 3:6). Now notice what I have highlighted in what is significant to understand with the use of the word "continue".

Continue - mid-14c., contynuen, from Old French continuer (13c.), from Latin continuare "join together, connect, make or be continuous," from continuus "uninterrupted," from continere(intransitive) "to be uninterrupted," literally "to hang together" (see contain). Related: Continued; continuing.

From what I have gathered here brother, is that no one is talking about an acceptance of a continual state of sin as being okay or acceptable. In fact the opposite is true. Struggling, repenting, and suffering are not foreign to hearts/spirits that are dealing with interrupted sin.

The "Uninterrupted Sin" which I believe you may be alluding to and can be looked at through differing doctrinal positions i.e. on such subjects as "divorce" and "remarriage" and there association to sin. Are but one of the subsections to the question I will pose later on. My responding with this question, in this fashion; due to my belief the questions these additional threads of the tapestry of His word presents us with. Would drive us far afield of your original question and subsequent answers given and received here in your excellent posting dear brother. Hopefully, this explains a little my reasoning for posting it also as a poll question.

What I look forward to with this discussion is a greater revelation of His Word as well as, hopefully. The continued love and uplifting of the Body of Christ which will result even with what I anticipate might still lead to an impasse for some. To what I've stated before. A continued respect and love for each others as Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus; or until the Sword of the Spirit; His Word; is opened again to this subject!!

YBIC
C4E
<><

Can a believer sin?

Link to poll is as follows:

Can a Believer Sin?



My brother I pray I have not been too scattered brained in my response. Currently not clicking on all cylinders. In need of slight repair!
Always in love brother B-A-C.

 

[Travis]

1 Again he began to teach beside the sea. And a very large crowd gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat in it on the sea, and the whole crowd was beside the sea on the land.
2 And he was teaching them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them:
3 "Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow.
4 And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it.
5 Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil.
6 And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.
7 Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain.
8 And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold."
9 And he said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." - Mark 4:1-9

The gospel is really super duper easy to understand. There is a condition which must first be met in order to understand it though. One must have ears to hear in order to receive it.

Those who do not have ears to hear will never receive it, it is but foolishness to them, they mock it and consider it to be of no value.

The Pharisees had most of the scriptures memorized by heart, but they still could not see it, because they didn't have ears to hear. Thinking they were worshipping and serving God, they were doing the exact opposite. We should fear lest we be found to be in the same boat as the Pharisees when judgement day comes.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[robaston]

One must have ears to hear in order to receive it.

not a specialist in references, above quote seems ONLY condition to being saved. from then on we grow in grace, and we are ACTIVE in this stage!

 

[RJ]

Yet the Bible says we have to keep the commandments to have Jesus living inside us.

So, I would respectfully ask for the scripture that says this.

How does someone know whether they have Jesus inside them or not?

If you have to ask this question, then one probably doesn't.

Homosexuals say they do.

A Homosexual struggling with their sin and searching for ways to get out of their situation could be a Christian. A homosexual who willfully practices their sin with out remorse or possessing a repentant heart, no way!

What do you do that they don't do?

Recognize that salvation is solely a gift from God and having a repentant heart when I am aware of my sin. To have Christ in you is to be chastised by him. How can you have Christ in you and say you will continue to willfully sin?

 

[B-A-C]

grace and faith work together...eph 2:8,9

Beware of building entire theology on one verse. Especially when that verse doesn't say grace "alone" or works "alone".

 

[Bendito]

OK You said " You don't make yourself ready, God does that by putting his spirit inside you." So how does this line up with these verses?

Matthew 25:1-13 (CJB)

25 “The Kingdom of Heaven at that time will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible. 3 The foolish ones took lamps with them but no oil, 4 whereas the others took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 Now the bridegroom was late, so they all went to sleep. 6 It was the middle of the night when the cry rang out, ‘The bridegroom is here! Go out to meet him!’ 7 The girls all woke up and prepared their lamps for lighting. 8 The foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’ 9 ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both you and us. Go to the oil dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10 But as they were going off to buy, the bridegroom came. Those who were ready went with him to the wedding feast, and the door was shut. 11 Later, the other bridesmaids came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they cried, ‘Let us in!’ 12 But he answered, ‘Indeed! I tell you, I don’t know you!’ 13 So stay alert, because you know neither the day nor the hour.


Revelation 19:6-8 (CJB)

6 Then I heard what sounded like the roar of a huge crowd, like the sound of rushing waters, like loud peals of thunder, saying,

“Halleluyah!
Adonai, God of heaven’s armies,[a]
has begun his reign!

7 “Let us rejoice and be glad!
Let us give him the glory!
For the time has come for the
wedding of the Lamb,
and his Bride has prepared herself —
8 fine linen, bright and clean
has been given her to wear.”

As much as I like you RJ I would rather believe God's Word...

Here's another.....
1 John 3:2-3 (CJB)
2 Dear friends, we are God’s children now; and it has not yet been made clear what we will become. We do know that when he appears, we will be like him; because we will see him as he really is.

3 And everyone who has this hope in him continues purifying himself, since God is pure.

 

[Bendito]

Here's another.....
1 John 3:2-3 (CJB)
2 Dear friends, we are God’s children now; and it has not yet been made clear what we will become. We do know that when he appears, we will be like him; because we will see him as he really is.

3 And everyone who has this hope in him continues purifying himself, since God is pure.

And another....Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that you may be found of Him in Peace, (Eph. 2:14) without spot, and blameless.

I like this one....In Peace, In Love ....Who is Peace? Who is Love? We have to be found in Him to be part of the bride.

 

[robaston]

Beware of building entire theology on one verse. Especially when that verse doesn't say grace "alone" or works "alone".

true, but bac you are erring too. we all need His grace

 

[RJ]

Beware of building entire theology on one verse. Especially when that verse doesn't say grace "alone" or works "alone".

God himself defines grace as a gift from him. SO when He says you are saved by grace and not works, what else is there?
Aside from Ephesians 2:8-9, here are some other by grace scriptures:

• Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace His grace, nothing from you!
• 1 Timothy 1: 15-16 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Christ saves sinners, doesn't say anything about being based on also what the sinner must do.
• Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." God alone, his grace alone
• Romans 5: 15-17 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. It is a "free gift"...being free, there is nothing you must do to get it!
• Colossians 1: 13-14 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, If we needed rescue from God, means we are not capable to or can do anything to rescue ourselves
• 2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, By a free gift and therefore nothing we can do.
• This was just a few scriptures other than Ephesians 2: 8-9....why fight it?

 

[Bendito]

God himself defines grace as a gift from him. SO when He says you are saved by grace and not works, what else is there?
Aside from Ephesians 2:8-9, here are some other by grace scriptures:

• Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace His grace, nothing from you!
• 1 Timothy 1: 15-16 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Christ saves sinners, doesn't say anything about being based on also what the sinner must do.
• Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." God alone, his grace alone
• Romans 5: 15-17 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. It is a "free gift"...being free, there is nothing you must do to get it!
• Colossians 1: 13-14 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, If we needed rescue from God, means we are not capable to or can do anything to rescue ourselves
• 2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, By a free gift and therefore nothing we can do.
• This was just a few scriptures other than Ephesians 2: 8-9....why fight it?

God himself defines grace as a gift from him. SO when He says you are saved by grace and not works, what else is there?
Aside from Ephesians 2:8-9, here are some other by grace scriptures:

• Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace His grace, nothing from you!
• 1 Timothy 1: 15-16 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Christ saves sinners, doesn't say anything about being based on also what the sinner must do.
• Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." God alone, his grace alone
• Romans 5: 15-17 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. It is a "free gift"...being free, there is nothing you must do to get it!
• Colossians 1: 13-14 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, If we needed rescue from God, means we are not capable to or can do anything to rescue ourselves
• 2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, By a free gift and therefore nothing we can do.
• This was just a few scriptures other than Ephesians 2: 8-9....why fight it?

RJ To define grace as being just a gift....one might just as well compare it to a cigar. If you'll dig deeper you'll find that 'grace' can be well defined as "The empowering PRESENCE of God, which empowers us to do that which we are supposed to do" Not just a simple gift, but the very presence of God in us. That is just too big to be ignored! Not that I'm saying that you ignore it...

 

[RJ]

RJ To define grace as being just a gift.

I didn't define it, God did!

one might just as well compare it to a cigar.

This is absurd!

If you'll dig deeper you'll find that 'grace' can be well defined as "The empowering PRESENCE of God

I don't need to dig any deeper than God's on word; his omnipotence is yet another gift; no matter where we go, he is with u, even before the foundation of the world. You didn't read any of the previous scriptures I quoted did you?

Not just a simple gift,

Never said it was simple, that is your words.

 

[Bendito]

I didn't define it, God did!

This is absurd!

I don't need to dig any deeper than God's on word; his omnipotence is yet another gift; no matter where we go, he is with u, even before the foundation of the world. You didn't read any of the previous scriptures I quoted did you?

Never said it was simple, that is your words.

Hmmmmm