@B-A-C
There is so much un-biblical theology here, it's hard to even know where to start.
First of all, we aren't sinner because we don't know God. We're sinner because we sin.
The wages of sin... SIN.. is death. Sin is why we die. (
Rom 6:23; )
Sin is why we are already dead. Adam and Eve died on the day they disobeyed God eating of the forbidden fruit, Can something that is already dead give Life to a new creature? We were all born dead because our parents were dead, To obtain Life and to retain it must come from and encounter with Jesus who is Life. The death of the flesh in the end of the matter, doesn’t really matter, does it? We are stewards of that body of flesh like we are stewards of all that God gave us to use... but becoming an heir and a joint-heir with our Lord is something else, isn’t it?
Second, there is a difference between being judged, and "the" judgment. Unbelievers are already judged even now.
John 3:18; "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
But even these people have to eventually face "the" judgment. Which comes AFTER they die.
Heb 9:27; And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and
after this comes judgment,
You believe you already understand what those written words mean, but I do not. I disagree with you only to the extent that I do not embrace all that you have said. What I need to know is what I desire to know which is whatever God wants me to know.
Do I need to know that those who have never had Life [the Life which Jesus is] will be judged again? Usually I would say their final end is not actually my business as the final judgment of them does not come from me. You say the final judgment of them is yet to occur, but I wonder, what needs to be judged in a person is already dead and has always been dead?
“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Ecc 9:4
Does that verse speak of the death of the body of flesh or does it speak of the death of the new inner man? Or does it speak of both? I have an opinion, but apparently it is different than yours, but is the correct answer something we really need to have... or is just something we would like to have to satsify our curiosity or to win arguments?
Even Christians will be judged.
1 Pet 4:17; For it is time for judgment to
begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Make no mistake the ungodly will be judged, and face the fire.
2 Pet 3:7; But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for
the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Perhaps this does not refer to men who already dead although still walking around, but rather to those have been believers but quenched the Spirit of God in themselves too many times. They were believers but in quenching the Spirit they made themselves very ungodly, did they not?
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to
a resurrection of judgment.
Same answer.
The dead (and resurrected) are judged.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead
were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
They aren't judged because they say they know God, or don't know God. They are judged by their deeds. (
John 5:29; )
Those who have never known Life have already been judged by their failure to take hold of the mercy which God provided as a Way to Tree of Life which had been closed since the day of our first carnal parents in the Garden of Eden.
Should they be judged again? Why? If you were to say you don’t understand, well that would go for me as well. So why should I draw conclusions about something which I do not need to know? God knows better than I do just what I need to know.
Those who are in the book of life... live eternally. Everlasting, non-ceasing, never ending, forever. (
Rev 21:27; )
Those who aren't. Get the fire. (
Rev 20:15; )
Consider the three Hebrews thrown into the fiery furnace at the command of Nebuchadnezzar. They were unscathed by the fire while the kings strongest soldiers died when they just approached it. And what exactly is that fire a type or shadow of?
“For our God
is a consuming fire.” Heb 12:29
The three Hebrews were prepared and properly attired, but the soldiers were not. It was the same fire. Was it not the same fire mentioned here?
“So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a
flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.” Gen 3:24
The wrath of God isn't simply not knowing God. The wrath of God comes from rejecting His only Son who gave Himself as a sacrifice for your sins and mine, (our SINS) the SINS of the whole world (anyone who believes in Him and obeys Him)
You know apparently that you have not rejected Him and I know that I have not rejected Him. Why do you presume to know what His wrath is for those who have?
Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and
thrown into the fire.
Matt 13:40; "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will
gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42; and
will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He gather people "from out of His kingdom" (those who commit lawlessness) and throw them into the fire.
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
There are literally dozens of verses like this.
But if God is the “consuming fire”, what does it mean? Do we want to be thrown into the fire to be supported or joined there with one “like the Son of God”?
John 15:6; "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and
cast them into the fire and they are burned.
Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY
OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is
the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
I won’t add anything here as you reject my belief even though it really is based on scripture although you apparently are not interested in hearing more from me on it. Is this because it is not what most Christians believe? Who is the judge in the end of the matter? Certainly not me...
What further judgment is needed? They haven't even begun to be judged yet.
You reject my only begotten Son who died for you?
You refuse to believe in your creator?
You refuse to obey the things He told you to do?
You've caused my children pain and suffering, and even led some of them down the path of destruction?
If you are speaking to me first person to second person with the above words then I guess the conversation is over because your judgment is seeming held up as being better than mine. If I am wrong, I won’t contest it, but let God be the judge. You seem to have decided against me without understanding my heart. God understands every heart. Which ones do we understand?
Heb 10:30; For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
Heb 10:31; It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I am sorry that you do not really wish to discuss our differences. I know that I fall short of God’s glory too often, but I believe it is necessary for each believer to grow closer to God throughout his course here. Part of growing, I believe, is finding a willingness in oneself to let go of anything God has shown to be wrong ... which we have believed to be right. If we already believe that all of our beliefs are right without admitting the possibility of error, where is the room for a favorable change?
I believe that the following words penned by Solomon as inspired by God still apply in a measure to all believers [unless they have already overcome the world as did Jesus] as well as to unbelievers today:
“Every way of a man
is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.: Prov 21:2
If this is not changed in us, how different are we from unbelievers? Is the growth toward God in the changing? But we do not accept the possibility of our error, how can we grow?