Charlie Kirk

[Christ4Ever]

Dear @Rad
You say a Christian should be against the death penalty.
Justify that according to scripture, and that would be the entirety of scripture. Remember there is a difference between murder and putting someone to death for breaking the laws of a land according to the Bible. They are not the same.

The Old Testament was clear on it, as is the New Testament on adhering to the laws of the government one lives in. If the nation allows for it, then one needs to adhere to it, since all authority is God given, and it would not be in power if not for Him. For the judgment they do is in place of God, with His authority.

The authorities are God's servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God's servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. Romans 13:4 You are also welcome to read 1-5 as well.

Now you can in conscious not want to participate in such a process, which is your right to do so, but do not think to place your personal belief on all of Christendom. There are warriors both past and present who were and are believers. Are they murderers for taking the life of another in battle? If someone attacks your home, and you protect your family and in so doing the invader dies? Is this also wrong? By adhering to the death penalty, one is not placing value of one life over another, instead they are ensuring impartiality by doing so.

I pray you and any believer are never placed in that quandary but know it is not your place or belief that dictates what is acceptable when it comes to determining the actions of another. The word of God does not permit murder, but it calls for accountability for those whose sins are deemed to warrant it. Think of it this way. Would you rather have one pay the price here, or later for their actions that warranted them being put to death? I would think long and hard on that one question alone.

I do not envy anyone for having to make that decision on the death penalty and I pray one never has to deal with the consequences of such a decision, regardless of the one chosen.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

See what you think to this

Snippets out of context. He was anti DEI, as all should be. Imagine appointing someone to a position because of their race or sex preference. Are you for that?

Boeing is a brilliant case study for it being a bad idea. They ditched it for a merit-based performance system, imagine that. Good to know that the best people for the job are flying and building planes don't you think?

Boeing disbands DEI department to focus on a 'merit-based performance system'

Troubled aviation giant Boeing, has joined the growing list of corporations canning Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) departments, combining its DEI efforts with a broader HR team that oversees talent and employee experience.

www.hrgrapevine.com

Seems to me that God does change his mind, or rather Christ "fulfils" the Law, which in some cases reverses previous teachings, heres Matthew 5 vs 21 -48

This is just evidence of you not knowing your bible. You are reading it with a bias as you are doing with the media you are watching. Why are you biased?

Num 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

Read that a couple of times. Meditate on it. Let it 'sink in' and then you can proceed to the next verse.

When you read scripture you need to accumulate verses and apply them all at the same time. For example, you need to ask, why does a God who does not change His mind appear to change His mind. Not, ''God does change His mind'', Num 23:19 is therefore clearly a lie and irrelevant. Please try understand this fact. Many make this mistake when reading scripture.

Murder​

21&nbsp;“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote a">a</a>] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22&nbsp;But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote b">b</a>][<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote c">c</a>] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote d">d</a>] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

23&nbsp;“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24&nbsp;leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

25&nbsp;“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26&nbsp;Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery​

27&nbsp;“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote e">e</a>] 28&nbsp;But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29&nbsp;If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30&nbsp;And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce​

31&nbsp;“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote f">f</a>] 32&nbsp;But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths​

33&nbsp;“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34&nbsp;But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35&nbsp;or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36&nbsp;And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37&nbsp;All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote g">g</a>]

Eye for Eye​

38&nbsp;“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote h">h</a>] 39&nbsp;But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40&nbsp;And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41&nbsp;If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42&nbsp;Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies​

43&nbsp;“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[<a href="Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:21-48 - New International Version" title="See footnote i">i</a>] and hate your enemy.’ 44&nbsp;But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45&nbsp;that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46&nbsp;If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47&nbsp;And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48&nbsp;Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Not sure what your point is with these passages of scripture, please better explain.

No the "Red isnt my inserted assumption", check out the above video at 5:15 where Charlie Kirk says "The death penalty takes too long, too many appeals", before you make assumptions about what ive said please check your facts, very un-Christian like, please dont do that.

Saying ''The death penalty takes too long, too many appeals'' is not him against justice. What you are doing is called grabbing a straw.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Do you consider yourself so free of sin that you can cast the first stone?.

Unrelated to the thread topic, please see post # 4 here - Are Christians to judge others?

No you've got it completely wrong, Christs emphasis was not on the actions of the sinner, it was on those who thought themselves so righteous and free of sin that they could condemn another sinner to judgement and death, and Christ knew she would sin again, we all do, every day, so you have a false picture of Christ in your mind, none of us are in a position to be judge and executioner of another, no matter how great their sin, for with "what Judgement you mete out, so shall it be meted out to you".

Unrelated to the thread topic, please see post # 5 here - Are Christians to judge others?

Heres the video, the relevant part is 26:40- 45:23, so tell me what you think the "context" is?. THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 33 — The Big Fani Whammy? Glee? Kill Pedos?

Please can you be more specific. I am not going to watch 18 mins and assume to know what you are disagreeing with.

 

[Rad]

I'm not a judge so I'm not "throwing the first stone" when I support the death penalty on people who deserve it as by judges and the courts.
America is not a Christian country.
"My position is simple, we are ALL sinners, you, me , the judge, the jury and the executioner, none of us are in a position to cast that first stone, to flick the switch, pull the trigger or whatever, and if we ask someone else to do it then we are as guilty as they are." This is useless

No, I'm not. That's an absurd assumption. Different time. Different culture. Different laws.
Jesus was sentence to death and He didn't fight it and he was innocent.
You can't use Him in any of this b/c He does not yet rule.
I will always side with the not guilty and innocent over the guilty murderers, rapists, abusers, etc.
If you're for the latter over the first, nothing you state here is of value.

If you support the Death Penalty then you are by implication as guilty as the judge who pronounces it or the executioner that carries it out, just one question, would you pull the trigger, flick the switch or inject the poison yourself?, and if you wouldnt then you are guilty of Hypocrisy in supporting something you wouldnt do yourself. It is not only our actions that condemn us but our thoughts and words as well.

Jesus didnt fight against his death because that was his destiny, to be sacrificed for our sins and to be our redemption through his blood sacrifice. And i'm not "using him", just stating his teaching on the Death penalty which all those that profess to follow him are bound to follow.

And just who are the Guilty, are we not ALL guilty, who amongst us is innocent, and you are so keen to condemn and execute who you consider the guilty, are you so free of sin yourself that you can throw that first stone, and what of those guilty of far greater crimes that are never held to account by our so called "justice" system, the President or Prime Minister who through their actions in cutting Overseas Aid assistance condemn millions to lives of suffering and death, and what of those millions who support them in their actions , and what of the Leaders of industry who have brought this world to destruction, or the Rich who Christ condemned so many times and their exploitation and oppression of the poor, where are you on the side of the innocent then and condemning the guilty?.

No, none of us are in a position to pronounce judgement and take the life of another, we know nothing of the circumstances , nothing of the inherent nature of the individual, their lives and their suffering, Christ never condemned the woman taken in Adultery, and if you are a true follower of him you shouldnt condemn her either, or others that commit crimes some consider worthy of death,for that judgement is Gods alone, Christ made that perfectly clear, " Let him without sin cast the first stone, (pull the trigger or flick the switch)", which leads to us all dropping our stones to the ground.

 

[Rad]

Don't forget: Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted...
Are you so obsessed you're going to "march in all tough" to some court and judge who's sentenced someone to death and stop it?

So are you saying that as in Nazi Germany where it was Government policy to discriminate against, imprison and then murder Jews that Christians should go along with that policy as "whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted...", we are called to a higher law than man made laws and where those laws conflict with Christs teachings we follow christs teaching above the man made laws, even if that means rebelling against human authority, or would you have gone along with the persecution of the Jews and their Genocide?.

 

[Rad]

Snippets out of context. He was anti DEI, as all should be. Imagine appointing someone to a position because of their race or sex preference. Are you for that?

Boeing is a brilliant case study for it being a bad idea. They ditched it for a merit-based performance system, imagine that. Good to know that the best people for the job are flying and building planes don't you think?

Boeing disbands DEI department to focus on a 'merit-based performance system'

Troubled aviation giant Boeing, has joined the growing list of corporations canning Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) departments, combining its DEI efforts with a broader HR team that oversees talent and employee experience.

www.hrgrapevine.com

So in what way were the snippets out of context, i'd be interested to know. You need to take the totality of the quotes and clips i've seen of Charlie Kirk, the remarks about the 4 black women not having the "Brain power" to get where they are, his questioning of whether a black pilot was qualified, his labeling of the BLM movement as standing for "Burn, Loot and murder", of him having Kyle Rittenhouse on his show with him saying something like "Lets hear it loud for Kyle Rittenhouse" as an introduction for a man who'd killed 2 men at a protest and who'd been charged with murder but acquitted, his depiction of the Civil Rights act as an " anti white instrument", of MLK as a "bad person", George Floyd as a "scumbag" and accusing gangs of blacks of prowling around attacking white folks. He was also a believer in the "Great Replacement Theory" which states that white people are being replaced in the US by immigrants to give the Democrats an electoral advantage. All of these statements are pouring fuel on racial tensions and Charlie Kirks words do nothing but inflame and cause division and hate. But perhaps you have a "context" for them that is less accusatory, please let me know if you have.

This is just evidence of you not knowing your bible. You are reading it with a bias as you are doing with the media you are watching. Why are you biased?

Num 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

Read that a couple of times. Meditate on it. Let it 'sink in' and then you can proceed to the next verse.

When you read scripture you need to accumulate verses and apply them all at the same time. For example, you need to ask, why does a God who does not change His mind appear to change His mind. Not, ''God does change His mind'', Num 23:19 is therefore clearly a lie and irrelevant. Please try understand this fact. Many make this mistake when reading scripture.



Not sure what your point is with these passages of scripture, please better explain.

I feel exactly the same about your knowledge of the Bible, but anyway, i'll make it simple for you, Matthew 5 vs 38-39, under OT law it was an "Eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, " but Jesus said the complete opposite, "Do not resist evil but if someone hits you on one cheek offer the other", or Matthew 5 vs 43-44 where christs says " you have been told love your neighbour but hate your enemy but i say love your enemy bless them that curse you and do good to those that spitefully use you", Read that a couple of times and let in "sink in".

Saying ''The death penalty takes too long, too many appeals'' is not him against justice. What you are doing is called grabbing a straw.



Unrelated to the thread topic, please see post # 4 here - Are Christians to judge others?



Unrelated to the thread topic, please see post # 5 here - Are Christians to judge others?



Please can you be more specific. I am not going to watch 18 mins and assume to know what you are disagreeing with.

I'm not "grabbing at straws, if you make a process quicker, if you cut down on the number of appeals by definition the chance of injustice increases, even Charlie KIRK himself acknowledged the risk of wrongful econvict5ion and the fact the death penalty isnt reversible, and the reason i quoted the full 18 minutes is so that you get the full context of his reasoning, its something you seem keen on, surely 18 minutes isnt too much to ask, you asked for the full video saying CHAT GPT or whatever has said i quoted "out of context", so heres the full segment, watch it yourself and you can get the full context, no problem.

 

[MedicBravo]

If you support the Death Penalty then you are by implication as guilty as the judge who pronounces it or the executioner that carries it out, just one question, would you pull the trigger, flick the switch or inject the poison yourself?, and if you wouldnt then you are guilty of Hypocrisy in supporting something you wouldnt do yourself. It is not only our actions that condemn us but our thoughts and words as well.

Jesus didnt fight against his death because that was his destiny, to be sacrificed for our sins and to be our redemption through his blood sacrifice. And i'm not "using him", just stating his teaching on the Death penalty which all those that profess to follow him are bound to follow.

And just who are the Guilty, are we not ALL guilty, who amongst us is innocent, and you are so keen to condemn and execute who you consider the guilty, are you so free of sin yourself that you can throw that first stone, and what of those guilty of far greater crimes that are never held to account by our so called "justice" system, the President or Prime Minister who through their actions in cutting Overseas Aid assistance condemn millions to lives of suffering and death, and what of those millions who support them in their actions , and what of the Leaders of industry who have brought this world to destruction, or the Rich who Christ condemned so many times and their exploitation and oppression of the poor, where are you on the side of the innocent then and condemning the guilty?.

No, none of us are in a position to pronounce judgement and take the life of another, we know nothing of the circumstances , nothing of the inherent nature of the individual, their lives and their suffering, Christ never condemned the woman taken in Adultery, and if you are a true follower of him you shouldnt condemn her either, or others that commit crimes some consider worthy of death,for that judgement is Gods alone, Christ made that perfectly clear, " Let him without sin cast the first stone, (pull the trigger or flick the switch)", which leads to us all dropping our stones to the ground.

You're not going to change anyone's mind. As I and others have shown, Jesus approved of the death penalty even on himself!
It's not the optimal way for a culture to be. America is NOT a Christian nation.
The two thieves were also put to death and He didn't stop theirs either. ALL in positions of power in all of history is by God's doing even if they are bad ones.
Don't argue from a minority standpoint.
In case you forgot, the Book of Judges is the 7th book of OT and Hebrew Bible. Follows Joshua and a time when Judges NOT Kings controlled and judged Israel. You're not looking too good here.

Justice is blind and fair. If a court gives that sentence it is good and fair. You've show your preference for the criminal over the victims.
Jesus isn't ruling this world yet and until He does, others will fill the places where God puts them.
You're rambling again.
As an American, my PRIORITIES by God are me and my family. I care more about America's well-being and problems than ANY other country outside of it.
We can tell you're emotionally compromised.
I'm sure you'll get REAL upset when you know the Crusades (Catholics) were a just response to Muslims invaded Christian lands; stole, raped, murdered, and took slaves including women for sex.

Your excuse of using Jesus as not judging the woman, only He has the Authority and power to do it.
God tells us HOW to judge not "Do not judge at all."

 

[KingJ]

You need to take the totality of the quotes and clips i've seen of Charlie Kirk, the remarks about the 4 black women not having the "Brain power" to get where they are,

I'm not "grabbing at straws, if you make a process quicker, if you cut down on the number of appeals by definition the chance of injustice increases, even Charlie KIRK himself acknowledged the risk of wrongful econvict5ion and the fact the death penalty isnt reversible, and the reason i quoted the full 18 minutes is so that you get the full context of his reasoning, its something you seem keen on, surely 18 minutes isnt too much to ask, you asked for the full video saying CHAT GPT or whatever has said i quoted "out of context", so heres the full segment, watch it yourself and you can get the full context, no problem.

Bearing false witness is a great sin Deut 19-16-19. You know that your quotes are not the whole truth of the matter. He was not racist. Accusing him of racism and ''murdering innocent people'' by wanting less appeals, is bearing false witness.

Are you a ''Christian'' alphabet ++ person or a supporter of them? Please be honest. Its the only thing I can think of for your extreme bias.

I feel exactly the same about your knowledge of the Bible, but anyway, i'll make it simple for you, Matthew 5 vs 38-39, under OT law it was an "Eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, " but Jesus said the complete opposite, "Do not resist evil but if someone hits you on one cheek offer the other", or Matthew 5 vs 43-44 where christs says " you have been told love your neighbour but hate your enemy but i say love your enemy bless them that curse you and do good to those that spitefully use you", Read that a couple of times and let in "sink in".

Your inability to understand scripture in its proper context causes your theology to appear as isolated strands of error—much like the way the devil misused Scripture in Matthew 4.

Different dispensations are not evidence of contradictory thoughts and actions between God and Jesus. This is such a big topic for discussion. There is so much to consider. I do not believe you are being intellectually honest and therefore will not create an efforted reply explaining dispensationalism.

All I will say is that:

A. All will be punished according to what they did Rom 2:6. No exceptions, no partiality Rom 2:11.
B. Paul wanted us to enforce law and rebuked Christians who could not and would rather go to the 'ungodly courts' for guidance 1 Cor 6.
C. In Matt 18:6 Jesus warns all who stumble the weak and lost with a graphic and violent example of a punishment that will be far better for you then what God has planned.

As such, it should be crystal clear, almost a 'duh' fact, that the instruction to turn the left cheek be part of an attempt by God to use us to drive sinners to repentance. Showing them that he is merciful and longsuffering. It is most certainly not evidence of us being unjust and allowing them to escape punishment.

The other important item to consider. A reason why dispensationalism is important. The Jews knew both God and His laws. They knew He was good and merciful Psalm 136:1. The gentiles did not. A Jew, much like a Christian can and should be held to a higher level of accountability.

How merciful do you think Paul wants us to be with Christians over gentiles? According to 1 Cor 5:1 he says cast the ''so called Christian'' out of meetings. Do not even eat at the same table as them 1 Cor 5:9. But the unsaved, no matter their sin, you can eat at the same table 1 Cor 5:10.

 

[Twistie]

As a Christian living in the UK i hadn't heard of Charlie Kirk until the news of him being shot and killed and the subsequent eruption of sorrow and recrimination that engulfed the US. So i made it a point to try to find out who this man was who could inflame such passions. What i found was not encouraging to say the least. So before i go any further could those in support of Charlie Kirk tell me if the following is true. I have seen a video where he quotes Leviticus " If a man lies with a man as a woman they should both be put to death", and then said "Just saying", just saying what, that Gay people should be killed?. I believe he also said that the Civil Rights Act was a "huge Mistake", that Martin Luther King was a "bad Guy" and that if he saw the pilot on his plane was a black guy he'd ask to see his qualifications. He was also a strong advocate of Donald Trump and was widely credited with getting the youth vote out for Trump in the 2024 election that secured his Presidency. How do these words and actions make him an example of a Christian that should be sanctified and followed as a Martyr for it seems to me they exemplify a hatred , Bigotry, racism and support for a man corrupted by greed and a lust for power, all of which bear no relation to the values and teachings of the Christ i profess to follow

What I find sad is how you claim you researched but did you? Did you go to his videos n listen to his words or did you find people that played his video to make him sound like he was racist and spread hate? Cause I seen what video you are referring to n it has left out much of Charlies words but just like many follow that false preacher in them synagogues of Satan that many Christians call their church he speaks half truths and that my friend is one of the worst lies one can tell just like them "church" leaders speak partial truths to get their people to believe them so do many who take videos n don't want to show from beginning or end..
From what I have read through the threads you have quite a warped view of the Word I'm not even sure if your following the Word or just the portion of the bible that suites you.. not trying to step on your toes but I'm just saying.. it's very disheartening to me what I see going on how the people fall so easily for the lies how many are truly falling away from the Living God and getting entangled in the worlds ways n start follow the ways of the wordly people.. many just wanna eat the fruits of the Messiah but they don't want to be in His Truth for they are to comfortable in their own darkness and help spread others darkness and lies failing to realize they too are going to be responsible for their words they spoke in ignorance because they were to lazy to seek the Truth on their own n took no Counsel with the Lord while doing so..

I'm not one to argue n debate I just speak what is laid on my heart n I hope your do take time n take counsel with the Almighty Living God He whom is ancient of days and the Creator of all things while He can still be found..

His children we don't peddle the Word nor do we treat the Word as it is a biology book The Word is alive and living and Teaching His children one just has to have the faith of a mustard seed and listen for His voice for it is written My sheep know My voice.. those Who have ears Let the Hear what The Good Lord says..

Anywho hope all's well on your end

ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ

 

[Christ4Ever]

Heres the video, the relevant part is 26:40- 45:23, so tell me what you think the "context" is?. THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 33 — The Big Fani Whammy? Glee? Kill Pedos?

I watched it and I don't get your point either. The discussion was surrounding an Idaho Law, and their thoughts on it. The law was restrictive to aggravation, and it happening to those under 12 years of age.

I disagree with certain instances but can agree with the basic concept that it could act as a deterrent to change behavioral acts i.e. pedophilia.

I do not think CK was gleeful, in this discussion. You watch enough of his interviews/clips and for better or worse you will see that is his persona. That he was a matter of fact, in certain instances, is without a doubt true, yet how can one talk about the horrors of actions being spoken of and not protect yourself from succumbing psychologically from the evil being spoken of. So, CK being gleeful, I disagree with.

Kill pedophiles? His position is yes, because of the life being destroyed, and in truth if I was on a jury and the option were available as a punishment, I'd have a tough time in aggravated/12 yrs of age being the case which is what the Idaho law is saying, I'd have a tough time in not saying no. Does this mean I am no longer a Christian? I do believe I've answered this in my other post to you on the Death Penalty. If the law of the land allows for, then you have right to implement the punishment.

What did Jesus mean when he said the following and do you believe that the acts of a pedophile on a child does not move that child to sin in their lives? "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin." Luke 17:2 What CK was saying is that the act destroys the life of the child and should be punished accordingly. Agree or disagree, if the law of the land allows for it to be the punishment, then as a citizen you make your position clear before serving on a jury and you will be excused if you disagree with the punishment or accepted if you can.

I guess you can sum up CK's position on the death penalty as being OT, or the eye for an eye. Which is valid. I do believe he could have fleshed out the NT position a bit more, but I guess he won't be able to do so.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rad]

You're not going to change anyone's mind. As I and others have shown, Jesus approved of the death penalty even on himself!
It's not the optimal way for a culture to be. America is NOT a Christian nation.
The two thieves were also put to death and He didn't stop theirs either. ALL in positions of power in all of history is by God's doing even if they are bad ones.
Don't argue from a minority standpoint.
In case you forgot, the Book of Judges is the 7th book of OT and Hebrew Bible. Follows Joshua and a time when Judges NOT Kings controlled and judged Israel. You're not looking too good here.

Justice is blind and fair. If a court gives that sentence it is good and fair. You've show your preference for the criminal over the victims.
Jesus isn't ruling this world yet and until He does, others will fill the places where God puts them.
You're rambling again.
As an American, my PRIORITIES by God are me and my family. I care more about America's well-being and problems than ANY other country outside of it.
We can tell you're emotionally compromised.
I'm sure you'll get REAL upset when you know the Crusades (Catholics) were a just response to Muslims invaded Christian lands; stole, raped, murdered, and took slaves including women for sex.

Your excuse of using Jesus as not judging the woman, only He has the Authority and power to do it.
God tells us HOW to judge not "Do not judge at all."

I'm not trying to change anyones mind, just a frank exchange of views to try to understand what it means to be a follower of Christ, and on that point i find your understanding of Christs teachings as wrong as your view on the Crusades.

It seems pointless going over and over the same ground, for you are so convinced of your, and others lack of sin, that you feel able to "cast the first stone".

Just two questions, would you pull the trigger, flick the switch or whatever it takes to kill the condemned man yourself?,.... and if you were in Nazi Germany would you follow the Law of the land and inform the whereabouts of Jews so that they could be taken to their death?.

And if you want a true picture of what these "just" Crusaders did then check out what happened when they first captured the City of Jerusalem in 1099, or what happened after the taking of any city, usually mass slaughter, rape and pillage, you may find that acceptable but i really dont think Christ would.

I really do suggest you read " The Sermon on the mount", Matthew 5 to Matthew 7 and also Luke 6 vs 20-49 to get an understanding of what Christ teaches , its the "blueprint" for a Christian life and may just open your eyes and change your heart..

 

[Rad]

Dear @Rad
You say a Christian should be against the death penalty.
Justify that according to scripture, and that would be the entirety of scripture. Remember there is a difference between murder and putting someone to death for breaking the laws of a land according to the Bible. They are not the same.

The Old Testament was clear on it, as is the New Testament on adhering to the laws of the government one lives in. If the nation allows for it, then one needs to adhere to it, since all authority is God given, and it would not be in power if not for Him. For the judgment they do is in place of God, with His authority.

The authorities are God's servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God's servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. Romans 13:4 You are also welcome to read 1-5 as well.

Now you can in conscious not want to participate in such a process, which is your right to do so, but do not think to place your personal belief on all of Christendom. There are warriors both past and present who were and are believers. Are they murderers for taking the life of another in battle? If someone attacks your home, and you protect your family and in so doing the invader dies? Is this also wrong? By adhering to the death penalty, one is not placing value of one life over another, instead they are ensuring impartiality by doing so.

I pray you and any believer are never placed in that quandary but know it is not your place or belief that dictates what is acceptable when it comes to determining the actions of another. The word of God does not permit murder, but it calls for accountability for those whose sins are deemed to warrant it. Think of it this way. Would you rather have one pay the price here, or later for their actions that warranted them being put to death? I would think long and hard on that one question alone.

I do not envy anyone for having to make that decision on the death penalty and I pray one never has to deal with the consequences of such a decision, regardless of the one chosen.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Hi Nick, thanks for that considered reply, i hope you'll understand that at the moment i'm fighting an uphill battle trying to get my point across, so forgive me if my reply isnt at length.

My reasoning for being against the death penalty is that none of us is so without sin that we can cast that first stone. Christ tells us "judge not lest ye be judged", to "be merciful", and " to take the log out of our own eye so we can see clearly to take the speck out of our brothers", which given our inherent sin none of us can do, then there is Christs commandment to "Love your neighbour as yourself , love your enemies and those that spitefully use you", "to forgive so we may be forgiven", Luke 6 vs36- 37, Can i ask you the same question i asked others, would you kill yourself, would you pull the trigger or flick the switch?

And also, you say we should "obey the law of the land", so in Nazi Germany would you have informed on Jews knowing they would be murdered?. And if God has ordained who should be in power, who are we through force of arms to contest Gods decision, isnt the logical conclusion to your belief that Christians should oppose all resistance to the authorities,

And in Matthew 5 vs 38-39 Christ says to "not resist evil", and in vs 44 "Love your enemies", is this not a call to pacifism both in our own lives and in terms of the Nation?.

 

[Rad]

Bearing false witness is a great sin Deut 19-16-19. You know that your quotes are not the whole truth of the matter. He was not racist. Accusing him of racism and ''murdering innocent people'' by wanting less appeals, is bearing false witness.

Are you a ''Christian'' alphabet ++ person or a supporter of them? Please be honest. Its the only thing I can think of for your extreme bias.



Your inability to understand scripture in its proper context causes your theology to appear as isolated strands of error—much like the way the devil misused Scripture in Matthew 4.

Different dispensations are not evidence of contradictory thoughts and actions between God and Jesus. This is such a big topic for discussion. There is so much to consider. I do not believe you are being intellectually honest and therefore will not create an efforted reply explaining dispensationalism.

All I will say is that:

A. All will be punished according to what they did Rom 2:6. No exceptions, no partiality Rom 2:11.
B. Paul wanted us to enforce law and rebuked Christians who could not and would rather go to the 'ungodly courts' for guidance 1 Cor 6.
C. In Matt 18:6 Jesus warns all who stumble the weak and lost with a graphic and violent example of a punishment that will be far better for you then what God has planned.

As such, it should be crystal clear, almost a 'duh' fact, that the instruction to turn the left cheek be part of an attempt by God to use us to drive sinners to repentance. Showing them that he is merciful and longsuffering. It is most certainly not evidence of us being unjust and allowing them to escape punishment.

The other important item to consider. A reason why dispensationalism is important. The Jews knew both God and His laws. They knew He was good and merciful Psalm 136:1. The gentiles did not. A Jew, much like a Christian can and should be held to a higher level of accountability.

How merciful do you think Paul wants us to be with Christians over gentiles? According to 1 Cor 5:1 he says cast the ''so called Christian'' out of meetings. Do not even eat at the same table as them 1 Cor 5:9. But the unsaved, no matter their sin, you can eat at the same table 1 Cor 5:10.

I'm not saying Charlie Kirk was "racist", just that he used race to popularise himself, he targeted an audience that agreed with these views and knew how to exploit that situation, all of the quotes ive given were designed to inflame racial tensions, and dont take my word for it, heres someone who knew Charlie Kirk well, see what he has to say, and hes no "Leftist" but a former Republican "Tea Party" congressman,

I would suggest that you read and study the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, "do not resist Evil", "bless those that curse you, do good to those that hate you ", Forgive and be forgiven, do not Judge, Be merciful,.... surely even you can get the general thrust of his teachings.

So would you pull the trigger yourself, would you cast that first stone, seems to me that you would, and as you so rightly say " we shall ALL be punished for what we do", or as in Matthew 25 vs 41-46, what we dont do.

 

[Rad]

What I find sad is how you claim you researched but did you? Did you go to his videos n listen to his words or did you find people that played his video to make him sound like he was racist and spread hate? Cause I seen what video you are referring to n it has left out much of Charlies words but just like many follow that false preacher in them synagogues of Satan that many Christians call their church he speaks half truths and that my friend is one of the worst lies one can tell just like them "church" leaders speak partial truths to get their people to believe them so do many who take videos n don't want to show from beginning or end..
From what I have read through the threads you have quite a warped view of the Word I'm not even sure if your following the Word or just the portion of the bible that suites you.. not trying to step on your toes but I'm just saying.. it's very disheartening to me what I see going on how the people fall so easily for the lies how many are truly falling away from the Living God and getting entangled in the worlds ways n start follow the ways of the wordly people.. many just wanna eat the fruits of the Messiah but they don't want to be in His Truth for they are to comfortable in their own darkness and help spread others darkness and lies failing to realize they too are going to be responsible for their words they spoke in ignorance because they were to lazy to seek the Truth on their own n took no Counsel with the Lord while doing so..

I'm not one to argue n debate I just speak what is laid on my heart n I hope your do take time n take counsel with the Almighty Living God He whom is ancient of days and the Creator of all things while He can still be found..

His children we don't peddle the Word nor do we treat the Word as it is a biology book The Word is alive and living and Teaching His children one just has to have the faith of a mustard seed and listen for His voice for it is written My sheep know My voice.. those Who have ears Let the Hear what The Good Lord says..

Anywho hope all's well on your end

ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ

I said i knew nothing of Charlie Kirk before his shooting but from what i'd seen there was little that was good. I asked others that supported Charlie Kirk to show me their clips or videos of him but little was forthcoming,

I too say what i feel based on my understanding of Christs teachings, and i understand why Christ said "many that professed belief in me will be told "i knew you not", for "Christians" believe such diverse "truths", and not all can be right.

My faith is relatively simple, "Love god with all your heart body and Soul and Love your neighbour as yourself", "treat others as you would want to be treated and understand what God requires of us " To act justly, to love Mercy and to walk Humbly with him", and sometimes thats hard to find amongst "believers".

Hope alls well with you too.

 

[Brad Huber]

I'm not saying that we shouldnt judge the action, but what we cant do is judge and condemn the sinner to death, for we are ALL sinners, and as Christ said "let him without sin cast the first stone", Christ never condemned that woman taken in adultery , and neither should we, and while we should be compassionate to those that have suffered at the hands of others, that should never be at the cost of taking the life of those that caused the suffering, for that Judgement is Gods alone. This is one of the reasons i think Charlie Kirks message on the Death Penalty was so wrong and as for making the execution public, making it sponsored by huge corporations like Coca Cola and allowing Children to watch it turns a tragedy into a spectacle of Death and suffering.

Do you agree that God is the same always? For their is many instances in the OT where stoning was set up by the Lord to be done to people, the death penalty. Now its not to be done by any single individual in retaliation or anger, but once the person has officially been found guilty (like a court of law) they were to be stoned. This was done for the sake of others, to make them more fearful to commit the sins that lead to their stoning.

 

[Twistie]

I said i knew nothing of Charlie Kirk before his shooting but from what i'd seen there was little that was good. I asked others that supported Charlie Kirk to show me their clips or videos of him but little was forthcoming,

I too say what i feel based on my understanding of Christs teachings, and i understand why Christ said "many that professed belief in me will be told "i knew you not", for "Christians" believe such diverse "truths", and not all can be right.

My faith is relatively simple, "Love god with all your heart body and Soul and Love your neighbour as yourself", "treat others as you would want to be treated and understand what God requires of us " To act justly, to love Mercy and to walk Humbly with him", and sometimes thats hard to find amongst "believers".

Hope alls well with you too.

And to spread lies because you don't want to search the clips full videos before you post.. seems like ya wanna enjoy the fruit but not want to be part of the Tree..

Kinda sounds lazy on your part that you want others to do the searching for clips you post to prove in full what Charlie said . Umm don't think that's how the Lord expects His children to be..

I'm j.s...

This is why I presume the Lord told me the people have gotten fat and lazy no longer seeks Him out seek the Truth out they wanna be spoon fed
the problem with that it is that's like a thief who climbs through a window instead of going through the door n we know what the Lord says He gonna do to those who climb through the window to get to Him

I'm j.s.

I hope you take counsel with the Lord and study His ways and ponder are your ways matching Him in all areas of your life not just that fluffy feel good stuff so many like to boast in..

Anywho

Hope all's well with you!!

((⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hi Nick, thanks for that considered reply, i hope you'll understand that at the moment i'm fighting an uphill battle trying to get my point across, so forgive me if my reply isnt at length.

My reasoning for being against the death penalty is that none of us is so without sin that we can cast that first stone. Christ tells us "judge not lest ye be judged", to "be merciful", and " to take the log out of our own eye so we can see clearly to take the speck out of our brothers", which given our inherent sin none of us can do, then there is Christs commandment to "Love your neighbour as yourself , love your enemies and those that spitefully use you", "to forgive so we may be forgiven", Luke 6 vs36- 37, Can i ask you the same question i asked others, would you kill yourself, would you pull the trigger or flick the switch?

And also, you say we should "obey the law of the land", so in Nazi Germany would you have informed on Jews knowing they would be murdered?. And if God has ordained who should be in power, who are we through force of arms to contest Gods decision, isnt the logical conclusion to your belief that Christians should oppose all resistance to the authorities,

And in Matthew 5 vs 38-39 Christ says to "not resist evil", and in vs 44 "Love your enemies", is this not a call to pacifism both in our own lives and in terms of the Nation?.

No problemo on the short reply. Sometimes it provides more to the conversation than a longer one, that can be convoluted.

Playing what "if", does not take away from what scripture presents, and is disingenuous to use. Are you saying by your example that it is then up to you to determine whether a government is allowed to do what they do, regardless of what scripture says? If so when God directed Israel to kill all men, women, children, animals (1 Samuel 15:2-3), you with what you know now would have disobeyed Him?

You have extrapolated for a personal responsibility to one given to the Government. They are not one and the same. Now whether you can on a personal one adhere to the Government one is a choice each must make and determine the rightness/wrongness of. In a court of law which is what I was talking about, at least in the US, you are provided the opportunity to serve or excuse yourself from serving. Providing reasoning for doing so. Still, it does not take away from the Government's authority by God, to institute it upon the populace that they govern.

If you are going to work for the government but decide to go against the law of the land, are you not then sinning yourself, by going against what God has given the authority to institute according to Romans 13:4? Keeping in mind that they are servants just as much as you are though they may not be believers? You are from the UK, so you don't have to worry about it since you all do not have the death penalty. So, don't you worry about adhering to US law that does and be grateful that you don't have that decision to make.

Living in the UK, I'd be more concerned about freedom of speech! They've arrested a man just for praying!!! So, are you going to stop praying? No, that is a personal decision even if the government says you are not to. Easy to follow that, or is it?

Oh, this is not about forgiveness either! You can forgive a person, but it does not absolve them of the consequences of their actions! The same for us brother as believers, once believers we become.

Can i ask you the same question i asked others, would you kill yourself, would you pull the trigger or flick the switch?

No, and yes. No, I would not kill myself, but would I pull the trigger or flick the switch on you let's say? Yes
If the consequences of your sin which is the operative word here is death, then yes, I would. As my wife, told both of our children would be the case as well. Sorrow for having to do it, but they are aware of the consequences of their actions, understood what would happen. (By the way they are believers as well.)

Now, in this country they have DNR's and I'm sure in the UK does as well. Are you saying you would ignore the DNR and resuscitate the person against their desires?

We can play what if, and I pray you nor any other believer are ever faced with life & death situations. Because what each of us posts here, will do nothing to what happens in a real-life situation.

And in Matthew 5 vs 38-39 Christ says to "not resist evil", and in vs 44 "Love your enemies", is this not a call to pacifism both in our own lives and in terms of the Nation?.

Not in the way you think it does! Want to play what if? lol You do not punish your children for disobeying you? Do you think that Judas was forgiven for his actions against Jesus and not punished? Just be as I said before, grateful that you are never faced with a situation that would make you have to choose between life/death of a loved one or anyone for that matter.

You make me think that you just might be a Quaker!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

all of the quotes ive given were designed to inflame racial tensions,

What nonsense. He raised valid arguments irrespective of race. Something for example like ''a majority of inmates being black'' is just a fact, not him trying to ''inflame racial tensions''. Unless you properly discern the facts, you cannot find a solution.

I would suggest that you read and study the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, "do not resist Evil", "bless those that curse you, do good to those that hate you ", Forgive and be forgiven, do not Judge, Be merciful,.... surely even you can get the general thrust of his teachings.

Dude, you really are coming off as a troll now. I typed a long post for you in a new thread on this passage and 'judging'.

Post in thread 'Are Christians to judge others?'

Oct 20, 2025

Matthew 5 vs 39 Christ said "Resist not Evil and whoever would smite you on the right cheek offer the left also", in Matthew 7 vs 1-2 he said "Judge not that you be not judged, for with what Judgement you judge you shall be judged...." Evil comes in many forms in this fallen world, from the murderer to the child rapist, to those that live in wealth and comfort while millions suffer and die in poverty, to the arms manufacturers who deal in death and destruction and the bankers and Financial institutions who with a stroke of a pen condemn millions to lives of oppression and destitution...

• KingJ

• 

And ''do not resist evil'' cannot be read in isolation any more than ''jump and angels will catch you''. Please try understand that you are teaching half truths just like the devil did in Matt 4.

So would you pull the trigger yourself, would you cast that first stone, seems to me that you would, and as you so rightly say " we shall ALL be punished for what we do", or as in Matthew 25 vs 41-46, what we dont do.

It depends on the sin. Remember I gave you 1 Cor 6 where Paul is clear that we as Christians must judge matters better than the unsaved. As such, If I was a murderer I would A. Make right with God, B. Accept a swift and graphic death by stoning. Society cannot live with such sinners. Examples have to be made. The entire Jewish race was the example to us of God's hatred of sins.

A swift death, albeit graphic and violent, is interestingly enough not 'punishment'. The fire waiting for all unrepentant sinners in hell, that is punishment.

Jesus was not against punishment for sin, if He was He would not have died on the cross. Jesus was ushering in a new dispensation. One where Jews no longer needed to live by the letter of the law.

---------------

You are stuck in a bubble and going in circles on these points. Please properly read what is being said to you.

 

[Jesua888]

I

Hi KingJ, I'm trying to understand just who Charlie Kirk was and why he inspired such devotion and following among so many Christians. As i've said the videos and clips i've seen of him up to now are far from inspiring and its a shame you wont share with me some of the footage you have of Charlie Kirk that shows him in a better light.

As to specifics, perhaps its better to treat each one separately otherwise it might prove to be a bit confusing. Lets start with the Death Penalty, as well as being wholly supportive of the Death Penalty, which i find contrary to Christs teachings, Charlie Kirk was of the opinion that the process of Capital Punishment should be much quicker with less time for appeals and judicial reviews, which would make the process much more likely to condemn the innocent . He also advocated that Executions should be made public and televised, he even suggested that these executions could be sponsored by Corporations like Coca -Cola, he was also on a panel discussing the age that these public executions could be watched , someone suggested 16, then someone else suggested 12,!!. 12 year old children watching public executions sponsored by huge Corporations, you can almost imagine the adverts in the commercial breaks, "This execution was brought to you by Coca Cola, enjoy it kids and enjoy life", while watching someone be killed.

Years ago there used to be a saying popular among Christians, "What would Jesus do", there still is, but Christians had wristbands and suchlike with WWJD on them to remind them in any given situation to act as they believe Jesus would in that situation, i really can't imagine Jesus agreeing to anything that Charlie Kirk said, it goes against his teaching of Love, Compassion, Mercy and Justice, but perhaps you think differently.

My first reaction was who is "Charlie Kirk" ... much the same as "Taylor Swift" ... I asked about her only to be told that "she has been around for years". I'm trying to stay open-minded about CK, however, has he become "famous" overnight like the others ... could MSM have anything to do with this? My initial reaction could be wrong, and I am willing to be wrong. How many people on this formus knew CK personally, or have followed him for years?

 

[Christ4Ever]

I

My first reaction was who is "Charlie Kirk" ... much the same as "Taylor Swift" ... I asked about her only to be told that "she has been around for years". I'm trying to stay open-minded about CK, however, has he become "famous" overnight like the others ... could MSM have anything to do with this? My initial reaction could be wrong, and I am willing to be wrong. How many people on this formus knew CK personally, or have followed him for years?

I don't know if I've known about him for years, but I seen short vids of his at universities engaging with students & professors since shortly after COVID hit. You can toss in an occasional speaking engagement at schools as well (older videos). All I knew of him, was that besides engaging the others on the issues of the day, he would also share his faith in Jesus Christ.

What he was doing, was not always something easy. The audience until the end was prone to be liberal and against him. He was also against the very schools whose students he'd talk/debate in. He himself never went to a college/university and was apt to tell them that they didn't need it in order to succeed in life. His point of view in that was mostly that the students would be left heavily in debt, with no guarantee of a job, and paying it off for a very long time.

Now, many did not like him, because he touched on social issues, which of course is always going to upset one side or the other. Personally, I was interested, when he shared his faith with the students. Even to those were into satanism, which you could tell from the t-shirts they would wear.

Anyway, where it goes from here, I'm not too sure about. Especially, since unlike CK I'm sure the focus will be on social issues, versus the Gospel because the organization is about that and not spreading of the Word of God.

This at least is my view on the man, who I honestly believe was a man of God to the very end.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[MedicBravo]

I'm not trying to change anyones mind, just a frank exchange of views to try to understand what it means to be a follower of Christ, and on that point i find your understanding of Christs teachings as wrong as your view on the Crusades.

It seems pointless going over and over the same ground, for you are so convinced of your, and others lack of sin, that you feel able to "cast the first stone".

Just two questions, would you pull the trigger, flick the switch or whatever it takes to kill the condemned man yourself?,.... and if you were in Nazi Germany would you follow the Law of the land and inform the whereabouts of Jews so that they could be taken to their death?.

And if you want a true picture of what these "just" Crusaders did then check out what happened when they first captured the City of Jerusalem in 1099, or what happened after the taking of any city, usually mass slaughter, rape and pillage, you may find that acceptable but i really dont think Christ would.

I really do suggest you read " The Sermon on the mount", Matthew 5 to Matthew 7 and also Luke 6 vs 20-49 to get an understanding of what Christ teaches , its the "blueprint" for a Christian life and may just open your eyes and change your heart..

Oh really?
By the mid-700s, Islam controlled much of what had once been the Christian Mediterranean world — from the Holy Land to Spain.

Motives behind the Crusades (Christian viewpoint then)​

1. Religious: To reclaim the Holy Land and ensure Christian access to pilgrimage sites.
2. Defensive: To push back centuries of Muslim territorial gains.
3. Political: To aid the Byzantines and potentially reunify Eastern and Western Christendom.

• Muslim expansion into Christian territories began around 634 CE, within two years of Muhammad’s death.
• The Crusades began in 1096 CE, roughly 460 years later, as a reaction to continued Muslim control and new military threats from the Seljuks.
• The Crusades were framed as defensive and religiously motivated campaigns to recover lands once part of Christendom, especially Jerusalem.

The Crusades were 100% justifiable and GREAT response to evil Islam.
You also ignore and misundersand that Jesus, himself, was subject to the death penalty. You also neglect the fact those two thieves were ALSO sentenced to death.

Your Assumption I've not read the Bible or understand is on you.
If you're siding with evil, I've no reason to interact with you further.