Catholics admit Changing GOD's Baptism Ordinance (1)

[king1]

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

We say Holy cause The arc of covenant is where God Resided in the Holiest of Holies. Until Jesus came . Question 1. Is this correct ?
Jesus who is God replaced the old covenant Question 2. is this correct ?
Jesus came into the world He was All God and All man Question 3. is this correct ?
Since Jesus was All God Question 4. Was he the Son of God ?
Since Jesus was All Man Question 5 Was he the Son of Mary?
Since The arc was Holy in the Holiest of Holies Should Not the New Arc of the Covenant be Holy since like the original it held God. "Hail Mary Full of Grace"

Please if you care to answer, let it be not with the standard propaganda of what your have learned and please do not say that bible doesn't say it. We are not to add to the bible but
we can interpret it and that is all we do a different interpretation, but I have laid out what my facts backup my belief

I have pointed out the error in your thinking
and told you what we believe it is you that keeps choosing believe something about Catholics that is simply False. I asked God forgiveness yesterday for the anger I had in my heart

 

[Christ4Ever]

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

Hello @king1
I'll preface this by saying this is not an attack, but just a link provided that provides a clearer understanding of what I feel you think many here lack (love/understanding/clarity). There are additional links provided there that cover a myriad of subjects as it pertains to the use of Mary within the Catholic Church. The writer references their own writings and provides the links so you can verify the truth of it. Holding it up against the Word of God and not the dogma or traditions of man or church.

Summary of Roman Catholic Teachings|About Mary|Mary Is Highly Exalted

I will also, say this is not out of ignorance of the Catholic Church. A little background to at least give you an understanding of this. My mother was in her last vows to become a nun, when to insure that no regrets would ever separate her from her devotion to the Lord, and to make a long story short. My fathers ship was in and the rest is history. Myself, I was baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church while I was a teenager. If you like the entirety of that part of my life you are welcome to PM me.

I will say that I did settle on Protestantism over Catholicism. Not just because the prompting of the Holy Spirit came in a Baptist Church and drew me to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I do not attribute this to the lack in Catholicism or the gain in the Baptist Church. Rather, it is what it is! For some have found him in ghettos, slums, prisons of the world, etc. The commonality being the Holy Spirit drawing and Jesus Christ Saving!

So with that being said. The Holy Bible is the Word of God which takes priority over the musing and traditions of men regardless of what they may identify themselves as being called. I do not hold the Holy Bible up to see if its in line with the church, but rather. I hold up the Holy Bible to see if the church lines up with it!

I would hope you will take the time to look at the link provided and that after this regardless of whether you agree to disagree. That you will still consider me a Brother in Christ Jesus as I do you. For our hope is in the Lord and not any worldly church.
Love you brother!
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Shutterbug]

So do you follow Christ or Paul. I believe even Paul has answered that. As far as Insults I pray for those that say they speak only the truth but again as Paul stated in Corinthians 13. "Truth with out love is a Resounding Gong" " "2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." Truth without Love leaves a bitter taste". I am sorry that you feel the that responses have been filled with Love but I do not see it.
When it comes down to it Christians divided (Catholics Protestants) are like Politicians (Democrats Republicans) they do not want to have dialogue, They only speak to their own they preach to the chior. What is the reason for this they know what they believe but stir up hate have power or appear to have power. There are over 38 thousand versions of Christians are they all one church. The church is the body of Christ, Perfection, but all churches are made of men, Inperfection. What does that mean there is truth in all the church, the body but there is also twisting of the word of God to Justify Mens own will.
This includes the Catholic Church, I personally am not in favor of priests not marrying but at the same time I am not against it. I believe they are missing out on a lot of men that would enter the priesthood but I also understand the vow of celibacy. It again is from Paul. I believe that orders of priest that can marry and other orders where the priest can take a vow of celibacy. Everything need to come from the Heart.

Good morning King1;

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding of my intent. I appreciate your position on Mary. As BAC mentioned and can be found on the Net, Roman Catholics hold Mary to a very high position. I have no issue with that. But, asking her to pray for us would be no different than asking Paul, or Daniel, or any other prophet to do so. Please appreciate my position as all I'm saying is why stop at Mary for asking prayers? Why does that cause you a problem that you become angry and accusative? I'm not here to pick a fight, just ask you a question and state my POV. I'm sorry, Mate. I just don't see any scriptural for asking Mary to pray for us.

Anyway, I'm not here to wind you up and watch you spin. As I often say, I don't need help getting into trouble; I can do that very well all by myself.

Cheers,
John

 

[Chad]

So with that being said. The Holy Bible is the Word of God which takes priority over the musing and traditions of men regardless of what they may identify themselves as being called. I do not hold the Holy Bible up to see if its in line with the church, but rather. I hold up the Holy Bible to see if the church lines up with it!

Amen to that.

This verse is plainly clear. You can only pray to Jesus, no one else. Anyone who wants to work around that and pray to Mary, saints, etc is insulting Jesus Christ and also going for mere mortals instead of the Creator. It's foolishness. Why would I want to pray to a human being that's dead (or alive like the pope) instead of my GOD directly?

John 14:6
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

 

[king1]

Hello @king1
I'll preface this by saying this is not an attack, but just a link provided that provides a clearer understanding of what I feel you think many here lack (love/understanding/clarity). There are additional links provided there that cover a myriad of subjects as it pertains to the use of Mary within the Catholic Church. The writer references their own writings and provides the links so you can verify the truth of it. Holding it up against the Word of God and not the dogma or traditions of man or church.

Summary of Roman Catholic Teachings|About Mary|Mary Is Highly Exalted

I will also, say this is not out of ignorance of the Catholic Church. A little background to at least give you an understanding of this. My mother was in her last vows to become a nun, when to insure that no regrets would ever separate her from her devotion to the Lord, and to make a long story short. My fathers ship was in and the rest is history. Myself, I was baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church while I was a teenager. If you like the entirety of that part of my life you are welcome to PM me.

I will say that I did settle on Protestantism over Catholicism. Not just because the prompting of the Holy Spirit came in a Baptist Church and drew me to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I do not attribute this to the lack in Catholicism or the gain in the Baptist Church. Rather, it is what it is! For some have found him in ghettos, slums, prisons of the world, etc. The commonality being the Holy Spirit drawing and Jesus Christ Saving!

So with that being said. The Holy Bible is the Word of God which takes priority over the musing and traditions of men regardless of what they may identify themselves as being called. I do not hold the Holy Bible up to see if its in line with the church, but rather. I hold up the Holy Bible to see if the church lines up with it!

I would hope you will take the time to look at the link provided and that after this regardless of whether you agree to disagree. That you will still consider me a Brother in Christ Jesus as I do you. For our hope is in the Lord and not any worldly church.
Love you brother!
YBIC
C4E
<><

I will always consider you a Brother In Christ.
I have gone to the link and Yes I did read it. I just don't agree .
The question at the end Has the Roman Catholic Church exceeded the scope of Scripture with its teaching about Mary? No they Just explain the Fullness of the story of the fall of man and the Salvation of Man (Jesus Christ)

I have heard many actual discussions between Aploigest for example Steve Gregg vs Tim Staples.
If I remember correctly it was about 5 years ago. All I got from that is the differences come down to different interpretations and
For example. from the link you provided. On the crushing of the head of the serpent.
The story begins with Gen 3:15, some of the words that God speaks to the serpent after deceiving Adam and Eve, inducing their Fall, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel”(RSV). So, you’re probably thinking, “I don’t see the connection. It says ‘he shall bruise’ not ‘she’.” And you’re right, for the RSV. But if you look at the Douay-Rheims version, it says, “she shall crush thy head.”

You See most of the differences are by interpretation no mal intent on your mis-interpretation I am sure, but when I hear going off not in Love with anger in their writing I worry about them and believe me when I hear Catholics behaving similary on the other side of the fence on the same subject I have the same reaction. And it does happen. I love all my Brothers in Christ and I will not talk down about their beliefs. 1. Because what I believe to be truth if it is with out love Just kills the Spirt. 2. If I try to Give what I believe Truth without Love also kills my Spirt.
I am not saying you should not have your belief, I just believe the way in which you state it is not without Love. Now I ask that you truly read what I have wrote and pray on it. Do not just go off on what you have learned because We both (Catholics and Protestants) have a long history of differences and truthfully it resulted in bloodshed we were like the Muslims killing each other, by the Grace of God we have come a long way , but we have further to go my brother Let us begin here. Let us Pray to God and think would he like us mend our connections to each other. Literally There are billions of both of us on the planet do you not think God wants his children to get along realizing they are different, but as long as they come to him Through Christ.

 

[king1]

Good morning King1;

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding of my intent. I appreciate your position on Mary. As BAC mentioned and can be found on the Net, Roman Catholics hold Mary to a very high position. I have no issue with that. But, asking her to pray for us would be no different than asking Paul, or Daniel, or any other prophet to do so. Please appreciate my position as all I'm saying is why stop at Mary for asking prayers? Why does that cause you a problem that you become angry and accusative? I'm not here to pick a fight, just ask you a question and state my POV. I'm sorry, Mate. I just don't see any scriptural for asking Mary to pray for us.

Anyway, I'm not here to wind you up and watch you spin. As I often say, I don't need help getting into trouble; I can do that very well all by myself.

Cheers,
John

Ok there is one thing missing I have placed some Questions before you and NONE of you have Answered not even one.
Please Answer the Question and truly think on it not just spiting out what others have said

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

We say Holy cause The arc of covenant is where God Resided in the Holiest of Holies. Until Jesus came . Question 1. Is this correct ?
Jesus who is God replaced the old covenant Question 2. is this correct ?
Jesus came into the world He was All God and All man Question 3. is this correct ?
Since Jesus was All God Question 4. Was he the Son of God ?
Since Jesus was All Man Question 5 Was he the Son of Mary?
Since The arc was Holy in the Holiest of Holies Should Not the New Arc of the Covenant be Holy since like the original it held God. "Hail Mary Full of Grace"

 

[king1]

Amen to that.

This verse is plainly clear. You can only pray to Jesus, no one else. Anyone who wants to work around that and pray to Mary, saints, etc is insulting Jesus Christ and also going for mere mortals instead of the Creator. It's foolishness. Why would I want to pray to a human being that's dead (or alive like the pope) instead of my GOD directly?

John 14:6
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

--

Chad as I have told the others.
Ok there is one thing missing I have placed some Questions before you and NONE of you have Answered not even one.
Please Answer the Question and truly think on it not just spiting out what others have said

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

We say Holy cause The arc of covenant is where God Resided in the Holiest of Holies. Until Jesus came . Question 1. Is this correct ?
Jesus who is God replaced the old covenant Question 2. is this correct ?
Jesus came into the world He was All God and All man Question 3. is this correct ?
Since Jesus was All God Question 4. Was he the Son of God ?
Since Jesus was All Man Question 5 Was he the Son of Mary?
Since The arc was Holy in the Holiest of Holies Should Not the New Arc of the Covenant be Holy since like the original it held God. "Hail Mary Full of Grace"

 

[B-A-C]

As far as Mary being the Ark, even if I agreed with that, let me ask you this.
Which is more important, the ark or the covenant? In Deut 10 God made Moses a new set of stone commandments.
He told Moses to put the stone tablets into the ark. Which was more important? The commandments or the container they were in?
Also keep in mind the old ark was defiled. ( See 1 Sam 4; the story of Hophni and Phinehas ).
Also see 1 Sam 6:19; when the ark was opened. (some say this verse was part of the inspiration for an Indiana Jones movie)
The ark was defiled again in 2 Sam 6; by Uzzah. ( 1 Chron 13:9-10; )
Jeremiah 3:16; makes it clear the "ark" of the covenant isn't nearly as important as the covenant itself.
In Hebrews 8 and 9; we see the blood of the Jesus is the covenant.

 

[B-A-C]

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

So you pray to someone, to have them pray for you. How is that not praying through them?

 

[B-A-C]

--

Since Jesus was All God Question 4. Was he the Son of God ?
Since Jesus was All Man Question 5 Was he the Son of Mary?
Since The arc was Holy in the Holiest of Holies Should Not the New Arc of the Covenant be Holy since like the original it held God. "Hail Mary Full of Grace"

The part of Jesus that was man came from Mary. The part of Jesus that was God came from the Holy Spirit.
To infer that Mary is the mother of God is to give her deity. It is also to put her before God.
The ark didn't hold God. It held his commandments.

Also, if we say having God inside us makes us Holy, doesn't that make any believing Christian Holy?
( 1 Cor 3:17; 1 Cor 6:19; Rom 8:9-11; 2 Tim 1:14; etc... )

 

[Chad]

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

You are praying to Mary. Wrong, no excuses or justification. You are also asking Mary to make you "worthy" of Jesus Christ? Is the bible not clear that His shed blood makes you righteous, but you're asking a dead human, Mary to do that? So Jesus' payment on the cross wasn't enough?

Romans 3:24-26
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[Christ4Ever]

We say Holy cause The arc of covenant is where God Resided in the Holiest of Holies. Until Jesus came . Question 1. Is this correct ?

Hello Brother @king1
Don't have much time, so only a quick note on your other posting to everyone?

Answer to Question 1: No.

Reasoning: The Ark remained in the Temple until its destruction at the hand of the Babylonian empire, led by Nebuchadnezzar and lost. The Holiest of Holies was the center of the Temple which we know was destroyed rebuilt and finally destroyed I believe around 70 AD.

So at the time that Jesus came the Arc was no longer part of the Temple, thought the covenant which was the important part as Brother BAC mentioned was still in place as you have stated until Jesus came. However, if you look at Acts 17:24 we know that God does not how did you put it "reside" there. You might want to rephrase the question.

Well.....back to work....sadly I desire more time to answer even Question 1!!!
With Love Brother

YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[king1]

You are praying to Mary. Wrong, no excuses or justification. You are also asking Mary to make you "worthy" of Jesus Christ? Really? Is the bible not clear that His shed blood makes you righteous, but you're asking a dead human Mary to do that? So Jesus' payment on the cross wasn't enough?

Romans 3:24-26
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

No Even BAC ackowleged that we were asking Mary to Pray for Us.
Mary Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ

Would you Nevery Pray for a brother in Christ That they be made worthy of Christ.
Or What If some came to talk Jesus and Asked "Please pray for my Brother for what ever reason that he may be worthy of Our Lord Jesus Christ"
or
I ask you Lord Jesus Christ show Chad the greatness of your heart with Love and Truth so that he be made worth of You Our Lord.

 

[king1]

1 Final Note to all Because I feel that there is real dialog and I have other things to tend too.
I still believe all the differences are interpretive and who is right. God is.
Only God can Change a Heart. So I say to you Let us be as Christ. He is for us. Let us be for each other and politely
acknowledge our differences not Judging each other. True Judgement can only from God, I can only speak for myself and what is in my heart. I am not God.

 

[amadeus2]

Intercessory prayer is different.
We can pray for you, or with you, but we still pray THROUGH Jesus, and we still ask for answers to prayers in His name.
We are not praying THROUGH Mary, nor are we asking for answers to prayers in her name.

Intercessory prayer is simply praying with someone else, or for someone else. Not THROUGH someone else.
As far as asking the dead to do stuff for us.... that's another issue.

Why is asking Mary to pray for us NOT intercessory prayer?

Is Mary dead...? I think everyone here agrees she is dead physically.

Everyone of us here has been dead. When we were born naturally to our natural mothers, we were spiritually dead. But...

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26

Are we alive in Jesus? Was Mary, the natural mother of Jesus? If so what difference does physical death make?

Is she consciously awake or asleep.. that's another debate.Has Jesus already raised everyone to heaven? (including Mary) Has the resurrection already happened (besides Jesus')?

Has anyone gone to heaven yet? (including Mary?)

Are looking for a physical place or for a spiritual reality? The only reality is God and those who have entered in with Him and His Son. I not the rest of this which men call reality really death itself? Remember this verse:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

God is not a liar. From the moment they ate of the forbidden tree they were dead and all of their offspring have been dead right down to us... until Jesus made a change possible:

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Either Mary did obtain the Life that Jesus brought or she did not. If she did not then asking for her to pray for us would be a wasted request, but if she did, how does that differ from asking someone we see with our natural eyes who is in Jesus name to pray for us?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Mary Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ

Would you Nevery Pray for a brother in Christ That they be made worthy of Christ.

Or What If some came to talk Jesus and Asked "Please pray for my Brother for what ever reason that he may be worthy of Our Lord Jesus Christ"

I ask you Lord Jesus Christ show Chad the greatness of your heart with Love and Truth so that he be made worth of You Our Lord.

This Brother @king1 is the crux of the matter and one you will have difficulty even questioning much less resolve. Then again. Like a brother here at TJ likes to add "I've been wrong before, so it won't surprise me to be wrong again"

Now. You must define what "worthy" is, what are the necessary components, and to what level one must achieve each to have this worthiness.

You might say works. I would ask you the same as I did before on "worthiness". Which works, how many of each and if they are without number. Does this mean that I will never be worthy or is worthiness a temporary condition that we fall in and out of?

How many repetitive prayers will make one "worthy" of the Lord? (Realizing that scripture says to not do repetitive prayers.)
How many acts of contrition will make you "worthy" of the Lord?

None are worthy dear brother and none become worth by any intercessory prayers that requires that man change prior to what I believe you are saying without saying. To be saved or maintain a condition of salvation. If not.....

The word you should have used is "pleasing". Because we love Him our Father. Our desire is to be not worthy, but pleasing to Him.

Now to take some time to read some of the other posts.
As always.
Love you brother!
YBIC
C4E
<><
P.S. Any thoughts on my answer to your first question?

P.S.S Don't let all this going back and forth be a chore. It should be a joy! Being able to discuss scripture so that we can state why we believe in what we believe, should bring the Holy Spirit within you to overflowing! Rejoice Brother!

 

[Bendito]

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

We say Holy cause The arc of covenant is where God Resided in the Holiest of Holies. Until Jesus came . Question 1. Is this correct ?
Jesus who is God replaced the old covenant Question 2. is this correct ?
Jesus came into the world He was All God and All man Question 3. is this correct ?
Since Jesus was All God Question 4. Was he the Son of God ?
Since Jesus was All Man Question 5 Was he the Son of Mary?
Since The arc was Holy in the Holiest of Holies Should Not the New Arc of the Covenant be Holy since like the original it held God. "Hail Mary Full of Grace"

Please if you care to answer, let it be not with the standard propaganda of what your have learned and please do not say that bible doesn't say it. We are not to add to the bible but
we can interpret it and that is all we do a different interpretation, but I have laid out what my facts backup my belief

I have pointed out the error in your thinking
and told you what we believe it is you that keeps choosing believe something about Catholics that is simply False. I asked God forgiveness yesterday for the anger I had in my heart

One does not pray to Mary because she is no different from anyone else. There is only one that is the mediator between man and God and Mary is not it.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 (KJV)
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

On the other hand...since Mary was born again she, no doubt, is holy.
1 Peter 1:16 (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Jesus did not replace the old covenant by dying for us, ratifying the New Covenant with His blood. Never forget that the New Covenant is built on the old, in that, the Old Covenant is the foundation of the building.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Either Mary did obtain the Life that Jesus brought or she did not. If she did not then asking for her to pray for us would be a wasted request, but if she did, how does that differ from asking someone we see with our natural eyes who is in Jesus name to pray for us?

Dear Brother @amadeus2

Your attempt in trying to say that one condition automatically follows the other is....how should I say this tactfully does not follow at all. :whistle Why not Joseph? Why's he left out in the cold? Hey, let's not forget David, Enoch, how about a prophet, can you give me twelve apostles? The emphasis is not there. Why?

The level of attention given to Mary is greater than one prayer. If you were to delve into the Mariology Philosophy you will find that more is given to a living Mary then a living Jesus and I'm not talking about the one still on the Cross! It goes way beyond, just one prayer that says please pray for me because I have this going on in my life that needs fixin. Check out the link if you haven't already that I provided in a post to king1. Of which he of cause disagrees with. You'll see what I mean.

With great love for you brother!
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Shutterbug]

Ok there is one thing missing I have placed some Questions before you and NONE of you have Answered not even one.
Please Answer the Question and truly think on it not just spiting out what others have said

The prayer says "Holy Mary Mother of God, Pray for us that we be made worthy of the promises of your Son Jesus Christ" It never said I pray through you.
Is that incorrect. That is of your own making.

We say Holy cause The arc of covenant is where God Resided in the Holiest of Holies. Until Jesus came . Question 1. Is this correct ?
Jesus who is God replaced the old covenant Question 2. is this correct ?
Jesus came into the world He was All God and All man Question 3. is this correct ?
Since Jesus was All God Question 4. Was he the Son of God ?
Since Jesus was All Man Question 5 Was he the Son of Mary?
Since The arc was Holy in the Holiest of Holies Should Not the New Arc of the Covenant be Holy since like the original it held God. "Hail Mary Full of Grace"

Aye, I likely skipped them because you had asked a question and then answered it. Carrying on.

1. As understand the scenario, the Spirit of God resided with his people and the Ark of the Covenant was a container for said covenant scribed on the two tablets known as the Ten Commandments.
2. Jesus was God made manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16
3. Correct. John 1:2, John 1:14
4. Physically, yes.
5. Only begotten Son of God, eldest son of Mary.

I appreciate your frustration with us. Jesus declared to his disciples post crucifixion "All power is given unto me" Matt 28:18. Or, "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son" John 14:13. There are several verses declaring that if we ask in the name of Jesus, things will happen. Never does he say to go through another.

For the record, your begin your example with "the prayer says". You say aren't praying to Mary, yet it's called a prayer. Freudian slip? Paradox? Again, I will ask you the question:: why stop at Mary? Why not Abraham, Daniel or Ezekiel?

I'm not out to beat a dead horse nor am I standing on my soapbox beating my chest to make me appear right. I'm just asking a simple question regarding the making of requests to former saints: why stop at Mary? Does Jesus not have "all power" as he claimed?

Cheers,
John

 

[king1]

One does not pray to Mary because she is no different from anyone else. There is only one that is the mediator between man and God and Mary is not it.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 (KJV)
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

On the other hand...since Mary was born again she, no doubt, is holy.
1 Peter 1:16 (KJV)
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Jesus did not replace the old covenant by dying for us, ratifying the New Covenant with His blood. Never forget that the New Covenant is built on the old, in that, the Old Covenant is the foundation of the building.

I am giving up on your I explained and you keep going back the same items that are NOT true. The truth has been presented to you. You choose to not accept it.