Catholics admit Changing GOD's Baptism Ordinance (1)

[daughterforligh]

This is for the honorable and GOD respectful among you.

Catholics admit to ILLEGALLY changing
GOD’s very beneficial BAPTISM Ordinance.

Catholics have overruled GOD like the Jews did
when they taught the "Tradition of the Elders = Judaism"
instead of Moses.
+++
NOTE: I am not ONEness.
+++
The following are Catholic Confessions,about their former leadership illegally
changing GOD’s beneficial Baptism Ordinance (100 -200 A.D.) and deceiving all nations,for about 1700 years.
This violation has resulted in >> Spiritual death,no abundant life, no gifts from GOD
and undue unhappiness, for numberless planet wide, brothers and sisters.
This is not a trivial matter.
+++++
Matt.28… Jesus supposedly said:
[19] You (11 Apostles) go
and teach all nations (Jews and Gentiles)
baptizing them:
>> ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the Holy Ghost.’ << (The underlined and in quotes was falsified by the R.C.)

All of the others blindly followed the R.C.
without studying the Word of GOD or seeking Christ, our shepherd.
++++++++++
Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession,as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19.(quoted above)
"The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith,
took shape during the course ofthe second and third centuries (100 - 200 A.D.) in connection with the ceremony of baptism.
+So far as its place (country) of origin is concerned,
the text (Matthew 28:19), came from the city of Rome.
The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19, therefore,
did not originate from the original Church (= Apostles) that started in Jerusalem around AD 33.
It was rather, as the evidence proves, a later invention of Roman Catholicism,
completely fabricated.
Very few know about these historical facts.
+++The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ
to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,by the Catholic Church, in the second century."
+++
The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
"It may be that this formula, (Triune Matthew 28:19),so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned,
is a reflection of the Man-made,......[Judaism was also manmade] liturgical usage established later, in the primitive (Catholic) community.
It will be remembered that Acts,speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."
+++
The Catholic University of Americain Washington, D. C. 1923, New Testament Studies Number 5:
The Lord's Command To Baptize. An Historical Critical Investigation. By Bernard Henry Cuneo page 27.
"The passages in Acts and the Letters of St. Paul.
These passages seem to point, to the earliest form as baptism in the name of the Lord."
Also we find.
"Is it possible to reconcile these facts with the belief,that Christ commanded his disciples,to baptize in the trine form?
Had Christ given such a command, it is urged, the Apostolic Church would have followed him
and we should have some trace of this obedience, in the New Testament.
No such trace can be found.
The only explanation of this silence, according to the anti-traditional view,
is this: the short Christological (Jesus Name), formula was (the) original,
and the longer trine formula was a later development."
+++
"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the CHURCH HISTORIAN and Bishop of Caesarea.
On page 152 Eusebius quotes from,the early book of Matthew, that he had in his library in Caesarea.
According to this eyewitness, of an unaltered (genuine) Book of Matthew,
that could have been the original book, or the first copy of the original of Matthew.
Eusebius informs us of Jesus' >> actual words to his disciples,in the original text of Matthew 28:19"
With one word and voice He said to His disciples:
"Go, and make disciples of all nations >> in My Name,
teaching them to observe all things, whatever I have commanded you.That "Name" is Jesus
++++++++
Calling on the name of the LORD is the Israelite custom found in the O.T.
The Israelites explain that they call the LORD Jesus,
by his name,
in order to get his attention and get his response.

Examples:
Pss.116
[13] I (David) will (happily) accept
the Cup of Salvation (from the dishonored Jesus and God of Israel)
and I will call upon
the name of the LORD (Jesus, starting in baptism)

Pss.99
[6] Moses and Aaron were among his Priests
and Samuel was among those (Judges) of Israel,
who call(ed) upon his name
They called upon the LORD (Jesus)
and he answered them.

Pss.14
[4] Have all the workers of iniquity (evil) no knowledge?
who eat up my people like they eat bread,
and do not call upon the LORD

Jer.10
[25] Pour out your fury upon the heathen (Israelites),
who do not know you,
and upon the families who do not call on your name.
++++
++++
An example of the original Baptism that was "once delivered to the Saints."
but changed by the R.C.

Time Magazine, Dec. 5, 1955:
Record of a True Baptism in Rome 100 A.D.

"The deacon raised his hand,
and Publius Decius stepped through
the baptistery door.
Standing waist-deep in the pool
was Marcus Vasca the wood seller.
He was smiling
as Publius waded into the pool beside him.
'Credis?' he asked.
Credo' responded Publius.
'I believe that my salvation
comes from Jesus the Christ,
who was crucified under Pontius Pilate.
With Him I died that with Him I may have Eternal Life.
Then he felt strong arms supporting him
as he let himself fall backward into the pool,
and heard Marcus' voice in his ear,
'I baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus'
as the cold water closed over (buried) him."
+++
+++
The above Baptism conforms to
the Spiritual Scriptures.
The baptizer called upon
the 'name of the LORD Jesus, our Savior'
over the BURIED candidate.

The candidate MUST also PERSONALLY call on Jesus,
for forgiveness and a good life,
while submerged and >> under the water.

Calling on the name of the LORD
can be found throughout the Israelite Scriptures in the O.T.
They called God by his name in order to get his attention and a response.
This was always the sensible Israelite custom.

Gentiles joined the Israelite God, his Father and the children
by obeying his teachings from the Apostles,
starting with faith in Jesus Christ and baptism calling on Jesus.
+++
+++
Calling on Jesus, by his Christians,
as recorded in the Writings of our N.T. Scriptures.
Acts.2
[21] It shall come to pass,
that whoever shall
>> (LITERALLY) call on
the name of the LORD (Yahweh/ Jesus in baptism),
shall be saved (Physically and Spiritually)

Acts.22
[16] Now why do you tarry (Paul)?
Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins,
calling on the name of
the (Israelite) LORD (who incarnated as Jesus Christ)

Acts.9... Ananias to Jesus:
[14] Here (at Damascus) Paul,
has authority from the Chief (Jewish) Priests,
to bind anyone who >> (literally) calls on your name.

Acts.19
[13] Then certain of the vagabond Jews,
(who were) exorcists,
took upon themselves, (without privilege from Jesus),
to >> call (on) the name of the LORD Jesus,
over people who had evil spirits,
saying:
We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches…

Rom.10
[11]..:Whoever believes on Christ shall not be disappointed. (Isa.28:16)
[12] There is no difference
between the (returned) Jew and the Greek (Gentile)
for the same LORD (Jesus, the merciful God of Israel),
who is (LORD) over every single person, in every single nation,
is >> rich (precious) to (enriches; 2 Cor.9:11; 1 Cor.1:5 below.)
everyone who >> calls upon him.
[13] because whoever,
(in any large numbers) shall
>> call upon the (literal) name of the LORD (Yahweh/ Jesus,
starting in baptism, like Peter said),
shall be saved (per the prophet. Joel.2:32)

1 Cor.1
[2] To the church of GOD who is at Corinth,
to them who are separated in Christ Jesus,
called (by the Father), to be saints,
with all of the brothers who in every place (in every country)
>> call upon the name of Jesus Christ,
our common LORD

1Cor.1
[13] Is Christ divided?
Was Paul crucified for you?
Were you baptized in (into/ calling), the name of Paul?
+
The first Israelite Christians (circa 30 or 33 A.D.)
were Baptized in, (into/ calling on) Jesus,
the incarnated LORD, the God of Israel,
who has a Father and a GOD.
+
The popular, unfounded opinion,
of any believer, Great or Small,
who has not been correctly baptized,
calling on Jesus from the immersion,
is equivalent to the opinion of an un-baptized person,
from any other religion.

Christianity is not based on human opinions.
The Christians of the 2nd covenant,
are the predicted willing people of Christ,
who go to Christ, our maker, who makes us fit for the Father.

Christ is the previous God of the unwilling Israelites.
+
Acts.2
[38] Peter (who is Jesus’ and GOD’s anointed servant)
said to the other Israelites:
Every one of you, (without exception),
repent (return),
and be >> baptized in (into/ calling on) the name of
Jesus Christ (the Savior of Israel, the Mighty God)
for the remission of your sins
and then you shall receive (from Jesus),
the (excellent) Gift of the Spirit.
+
Jesus gives the Spirit to those
who will obey him... (who love and do good deeds to all people)
+
Acts.8
[12] When they believed Philip,
who was preaching the things concerning
the (invisible) Kingdom of GOD
and concerning the name (the FULL identity) of
Jesus Christ, (the Mighty God of Israel)
both men and women were,
>> baptized (calling on the Mighty God)

Acts.9
[18] and immediately there fell from his (Paul's) eyes
Like it had been scales
and he received sight forthwith (miraculously)
and he arose and he was >> baptized (calling on Jesus)

Acts.10.. The first Gentiles get baptized.
[48] Peter commanded the Gentiles
to be >> baptized in (into/ calling on)
the name of the LORD (Jesus, the God of Israel)

Acts.16
[15] When she and her household
were >> baptized (in the name of Jesus),
she besought us (Apostles) saying.....
+
[33] He took the Apostles the same hour of the night
and washed their stripes
and he was >> baptized (in the name of Jesus)
and all his family, without hesitation.

Hereunder is a lesson to the >> willing children of GOD
that we can baptize >> more than once,
regardless of what the liars have taught us.

Acts.19
[1]..finding certain disciples there [2] Paul asked them:
Have you gotten the Holy Ghost (from Jesus)
since you believed?
They said to him:
We have not so much as heard,
whether there is any Holy Ghost.
[3] Paul asked them:
To (into) what then were you baptized?
They said: To (into) John’s baptism.
+
[5] When they (the willing children) heard this,
they were
>> baptized in (into/ calling on) the name
of the LORD Jesus, (that is the rule
for Christians)

Rom.6
[3] Don’t you (baptized converts) know,
that so many of us (Christians)
as were >> baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into his death?

1Cor.12
[13] by ONE Spirit (of GOD), all of us are
>> baptized into ONE (Brotherhood),
…and all of us have been made to drink (like water),
into ONE Spirit (of GOD)

Gal.13
[27] As many of you as have been
>> baptized into Christ
have put on Christ (the anointed good deeds person)
+
EEEph 4COLOR]
[5] ONE LORD (Jesus),
ONE Faith, (in BOTH, the good Son and the good Father)
>> ONE (acceptable) baptism,
(calling on Jesus from immersion, while under the water.
Baptism is easily proven.)
+
Christians do not suppress the TRUTH and hurt people.
+
Manifold Grace is great.
It is various and ongoing after CORRECT BAPTISM >>
Everyone becomes very happy and everyone loves it.
+
Jesus still accepts us,
if we PERSONALLY baptize ourselves,
calling on him for forgiveness and help,
as is the Spiritual Israelite custom.

We are depriving ourselves
and hurting ourselves and our families,
if we turn away from (forsake) Jesus, through whom all help is given.

Baptism is the Original step #2, in the Faith "once delivered to the Saints."

The reasonable Children of light,
always make the wise decision.

Grace is great >>
GOD does his work in us, through his Son,
his Spirit, his Word and the Apostles and Prophets.
Simultaneously he gives gifts through Jesus his Son.

Get it all from Jesus, the Mighty Arm of GOD.

 

[daughterforligh]

The TRUTH from the GOD of TRUTH resurfaces
because only the TRUTH
will be of BENEFIT to all races.

 

[daughterforligh]

Some honorable people and some dishonorable are mixed in everywhere.
Know thyself.

 

[daughterforligh]

The Jews also changed the Teaching from GOD and substituted the Teaching of their Elder.

2Kgs.17
18] Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel (the 10 Northern Tribes), and removed them out of his sight
There was none left (in the land) but only the tribe of Judah.
[19] Also Judah did not keep the Commandments of the LORD their God,
but they walked in the Statutes of Israel (=Judaism),
that they devised.

Isaiah reports the matter for GOD.
Isa.29
[13] Wherefore the Lord (the Father) said,
Forasmuch as this people (of Israel) draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me,
but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear (honor) toward me
is taught by the precept of (old Jewish) men:
[14] Therefore, behold,
I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people (of Israel),
even a marvellous work and a wonder:
for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.

 

[daughterforligh]

Peter's prediction says that False Christian leadership, will deny Christ and many Gentiles will follow.
The Gentiles and their Leaders will follow the pattern of the Jews.

 

[king1]

Peter's prediction says that False Christian leadership, will deny Christ and many Gentiles will follow.
The Gentiles and their Leaders will follow the pattern of the Jews.

Love is Kind, Love is Patient
Truth without Love is a Resounding Gong.

May the Peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you Forever and Ever, Amen.

 

[Shutterbug]

I have read an abbreviated version of the above by a Oneness member who regularly ranted against the RCC. But then, he also regularly ranted against his own former church and the UPCI on issues which were never made entirely clear as to their cause. This subject was one of his pet peeves as he claimed to be Jesus only. Unfortunately, he had a temperament which people did not tolerate for long.

According to the Book of Romans, the church at Rome was renown far and wide for its faithfulness. Unfortunately, that church had issues which created a certain amount of internal division. It's unfortunate that the baptism wording was changed if there was a political agenda behind it.

In Acts 2:38, Peter commanded the crowd to be baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit)". Therefore, I do not believe the RCC changed any scriptural wording. Instead I'm inclined to believe it appears they changed how a baptismal ceremony should be worded by substituting one verse for another with both verses taken from Scripture. Whether or not the RCC chose Matt 28:19 over Acts 2:38 as a legal loophole to satisfy internal politics is open to debate. By all means, choose Acts 2:38 if it satisfies all spiritual requirements. I would be curious to know why one would not want the name of Jesus used in baptism, especially if one calls oneself a Christian. Paradox, don't you think?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Some honorable people and some dishonorable are mixed in everywhere.
Know thyself.

Each individual has honorable and dishonorable notions,beliefs and actions.
The idea that we are an individual is separation from God and the brethren and separation causes scarcity,fear and mistrust.
A person can act honorably and dishonorably,wickedly or righteously.
A person can not "be" wicked or they could not change and Jesus did not come to save the righteous.

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
Gold symbolizes the eternal and silver the long lasting,wood and earth are temporary to different degrees.
Religious belief systems fall apart and are refashioned constantly and like earth and wood some last a little longer.
Love is Gold.

 

[king1]

The TRUTH from the GOD of TRUTH resurfaces
because only the TRUTH
will be of BENEFIT to all races.

Truth without Love is a resounding Gong

 

[king1]

I Came to talk Jesus to do that talk Jesus to me Jesus is The way The Truth and the Light but Mostly Jesus is Love. But I am not seeing that Here. I am see people give into old hatred. I pray for you to the Lord Our God.
Forgive them Lord They have been taught to twist hate from your Loving words. They truly are good people, but they want your word on Their terms. I ask dear Jesus to come into their hearts show them that Your True Love will conquer all. Mary Mother of Jesus I ask that you pray for them to the Lord our God that they learn the true meaning of your role that you are not God. I ask that you pray for them now and at the hour of death that they be made worthy of the promise of Your Son Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

 

[B-A-C]

Mary Mother of Jesus I ask that you pray for them to the Lord our God that they learn the true meaning of your role that you are not God

I am curious. Why do Catholics pray to Mary? Especially when you can pray to Jesus.
I am also curious how Roman Catholics interpret 1 Tim 2:5; and Heb 8:6; ( Heb 915; Heb 12:24; )

To virtually all protestants this is the same thing as necromancy. ( Deut 18:10-12; )
Prayer to anyone but God (through Jesus/Holy Spirit) is useless.

 

[king1]

My friend maybe you might try to go back to school did you not read I asked her to pray for you to God not to her as God. If you want to keep up the lie in your head that is your choice but I serve Christ he is my Lord and Savior but truth and love demand full truth and love. May the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on you as you attack and disrespect his mother.

 

[Shutterbug]

Good morning King1;

My friend maybe you might try to go back to school did you not read I asked her to pray for you to God not to her as God. If you want to keep up the lie in your head that is your choice but I serve Christ he is my Lord and Savior but truth and love demand full truth and love. May the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on you as you attack and disrespect his mother.

While even the Quran declares that Mary is the mother of Jesus, neither the Bible nor the Quran suggest asking anything of Mary. Otherwise, it would be a long list of whom we could ask favours from, including Old Testament prophets which are mentioned in both books.

Yet, many Roman Catholics do, such as this example:

In a prayer at the (Fatima) shrine, Benedict noted that John Paul firmly believed that the Virgin's "unseen hand" had "rescued him from death in the assassination attempt."

. Therefore, I see BAC's query as a legitimate question, not as an insult. What influence has biblically been ascribed to Mary regarding protection of the Saints?

Cheers, John

 

[king1]

Was it not angel that freed the apostles so why not mary.
Also the Quran is a false book it people are mainly good in heart but they have been decieved. As for not being in the bible what about
Revelation 8.4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
You may argue the definition of the saints but to say it is not in the bible is not correct.
BAC goes out of ignorance he was taught a certain way but never tried to learn the truth and as I try to explain my position all I get are insults not explanation of their position as I have said before
no one talks God Loves truth God is Pure Love but God is also Pure Intellect (all knowing) Just as Jesus was All God and All man at the same time. The reason being was that the original sin was committed by Mankind
I say man kind because Because sin first enter the world through eve (of the Original man). So sin was commited by mankind first it was disobediance and equaly wanted to be as God as the devil wanted in his rebellion and the price was death. A price only God could pay that is why god had to come as full man and full death man dies but only God can Overcome death.

The role mary plays is that where Eve cooperated with the devil by believing his Lies. Mary believed and cooperated with God. In doing so she give us an example of how we are to cooperate with God. I say cooperate because it God gives us free will and salvation but it us that chooses to cooperate and accept Jesus into our hearts.
See the parallel Eve trusted the Evil ones lies and Mary trusted God to bring salvation into the world. That is why Catholics pray the Hail Mary. It is scripture (Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with you (Jesus was in her womb). Luke 1:28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed artthou among women. Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Now the explanation is there but if anyone choose to not see the light and remain in darkness that is their free will

 

[B-A-C]

Which version of the Bible.. and which specific scripture do you have that says "Hail Mary" and "full of grace"?
Mary is favored "among" women, not above women.

Mary was created by Jesus, Jesus wasn't created by Mary.
Jesus is called the Son of God many times in the Bible, and while Mary is called Jesus' mother, she is never called the mother of God
in the Bible (yes, Jesus is God, but he became flesh and fully man while on the earth).

Revering anyone besides Jesus/God is praising something else besides God.

If Mary had to be born sinless to produce a sinless Jesus, did her parent have to be sinless to produce a sinless Mary?
Was Mary's sister (the wife of Clopas) also sinless?
Were Jesus' brothers and sisters also sinless?
Were Jesus' brothers and sisters also gods, since Mary is the mother of God?
If Mary already conquered sin before Jesus was born, why do we even need Jesus?

Roman Catholics are often referred to Mary worshipers.
They usually deny this and are offended when people suggest it.

Yet, the majority of Roman Catholic churches I have seen... (I was a military brat and lived in 12 different states growing up,
I have lived in over 17 cities. I have seen a lot of churches) ... are named after Mary. Usually something like "Our lady of fill_in_the_blank".
The vast majority have statues of Mary out front. While it's possible there are some, I have never seen a Roman catholic church called
"Catholic church of Christ" or "Catholic church to the King" or Catholic church of the Redeemer" or "Catholic church of God".
It's easy to spot member Roman Catholic houses in the town I live in, there are over a dozen statues of Mary. Not a single statue of
Jesus in those neighborhoods.

I don't understand your statement, "was it not an angel that freed the apostles, so why not Mary".
Are you suggesting Mary is an angel?

Mary was not sinless.
In John 2, Mary tells Jesus "they have no wine". Jesus rebukes her as says "What has this to do with me, my hour is not yet come".
In Luke 2, Mary accidentally leaves Jesus in Jerusalem for three whole days. (you can get arrested for that these days).
In Luke 1:47; Mary calls God her savior. If she never sinned, what did she need a savior for?
If Mary never sinned, why did she offer up a sacrifice (according to the law) in Luke 2:24;

But even if it was scripture.. (Hail Mary full of grace... is not in the Bible). The question remains... why would you pray to her
instead of the mediator between God and man. Do you also consider Mary a mediator? How many mediators are there?

Perhaps you are insulted by these questions. It is not my intent to insult.
You say I am "going out of ignorance". Perhaps... but then enlighten me with the answers to the questions in this post
and I will be "less ignorant".

Some Catholics call Mary the "Queen of Heaven". (In Jeremiah 44, the Queen of heaven is an evil false God)
My Bible says Jesus sits at God the Fathers right hand. Where does Mary sit? On the left hand?
If the Father is the King, and Mary is the Queen (is Mary somehow married to God the Father?)
Is Jesus relegated to being a prince? Does the Queen have authority over the prince?

Mary is often referred to as the virgin Mother, she was a virgin when she had Jesus, but obviously many verses say she had other children.

I would think that if Mary can see what is going on... she would be ashamed of those praying to her, venerating her, naming churches after her,
setting up statues of her, praising her... and she would be asking, why don't they worship God/Jesus alone?
Why don't they pray to God/Jesus alone? Can Mary answer prayer? Or is it God alone?

Jesus is the only mediator between man and God.
The Holy Spirit is the only intercessor between God and man.

Many protestants consider praying to anyone else a sacrilege. Some would go so far as to say... worshiping and praying to anyone else
besides God/Jesus is worshiping a false god and praying to false god.

 

[B-A-C]

1 Tim 2:5; For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

There is only one go-between that is between God and man. Jesus.
There is only one mediator of the covenant ( Gal 3:19-20; Heb 8:6; Heb 9:15; Heb 12:24; )

There is only one intercessor between God and man. ( Rom 8:26-27; Rom 8:34; )

There is only one name we can ask things from the Father on. (John 14:13-14; John 15:16; John 16:23-26; )

There is only one advocate between the Father and man. ( 1Jn 2:1; )

Mary is not listed as intercessor, mediator, or advocate anywhere in the Bible. Why would you want to put her in Jesus' place?

 

[amadeus2]

On the question of asking Mary to pray for us, what is so wrong about it? Do we not pray for one another and ask others (brothers & sisters) to prayer for us? If you answer that Mary is dead, I would ask, 'Where does it say in scripture that she is dead'? Very likely she has more "Life" than some that we might call brothers and sisters who still walk among us in the flesh. To put Mary in place of Jesus would of course be wrong but asking for her prayers is not that, is it? Would any of you here at TJ pray for me? I will pray for you.

 

[Shutterbug]

Was it not angel that freed the apostles so why not mary.
Also the Quran is a false book it people are mainly good in heart but they have been decieved. As for not being in the bible what about
Revelation 8.4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
You may argue the definition of the saints but to say it is not in the bible is not correct.
BAC goes out of ignorance he was taught a certain way but never tried to learn the truth and as I try to explain my position all I get are insults not explanation of their position as I have said before
no one talks God Loves truth God is Pure Love but God is also Pure Intellect (all knowing) Just as Jesus was All God and All man at the same time. The reason being was that the original sin was committed by Mankind
I say man kind because Because sin first enter the world through eve (of the Original man). So sin was commited by mankind first it was disobediance and equaly wanted to be as God as the devil wanted in his rebellion and the price was death. A price only God could pay that is why god had to come as full man and full death man dies but only God can Overcome death.

The role mary plays is that where Eve cooperated with the devil by believing his Lies. Mary believed and cooperated with God. In doing so she give us an example of how we are to cooperate with God. I say cooperate because it God gives us free will and salvation but it us that chooses to cooperate and accept Jesus into our hearts.
See the parallel Eve trusted the Evil ones lies and Mary trusted God to bring salvation into the world. That is why Catholics pray the Hail Mary. It is scripture (Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with you (Jesus was in her womb). Luke 1:28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed artthou among women. Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Now the explanation is there but if anyone choose to not see the light and remain in darkness that is their free will

Then, why not Daniel, Joseph, Abraham, John, or Paul? The bigger problem is not that Mary is the mother of Jesus, but is that all there is to her role in the scheme of things? Other than being highly favoured, isn't she worth more? I watched a video by Tim Staples whose attempted explanation makes little sense to me. He uses Rev 5:8 and Rev 8:3-5 for justification, but I view "prayers of the saints" to mean a call for justice and not intercessory for others upon request from them. It is interesting as (I realize camera angles can give an incomplete picture) I noted a statue of Mary surrounded by lit candles.

I agree the Quran is a false book, but it contains a larger section on Mary than Jesus.

No argument when comparing Mary to Eve. Expanding on the role of disobedience, Eve was instructed by Adam whereas Adam was instructed directly by God.

No one has insulted you on this matter, my friend. Paul requested prayer from the saints of his day. Why did he not recommend calling upon Mary? Or to those saints who had gone before?

Cheers, John

 

[B-A-C]

On the question of asking Mary to pray for us, what is so wrong about it? Do we not pray for one another and ask others (brothers & sisters) to prayer for us? If you answer that Mary is dead, I would ask, 'Where does it say in scripture that she is dead'? Very likely she has more "Life" than some that we might call brothers and sisters who still walk among us in the flesh. To put Mary in place of Jesus would of course be wrong but asking for her prayers is not that, is it? Would any of you here at TJ pray for me? I will pray for you.

Intercessory prayer is different.
We can pray for you, or with you, but we still pray THROUGH Jesus, and we still ask for answers to prayers in His name.
We are not praying THROUGH Mary, nor are we asking for answers to prayers in her name.

Intercessory prayer is simply praying with someone else, or for someone else. Not THROUGH someone else.
As far as asking the dead to do stuff for us.... that's another issue. Isa 8:19;

Lev 19:31; Lev 20:6; 1 Sam 28:3-9; 2 Kin 21:6; 2 Kin 23:24; 2 Chron 33:6; Isa 8:19; Isa 19:3;

Is Mary dead...? I think everyone here agrees she is dead physically.
Is she consciously awake or asleep.. that's another debate.

1 Cor 15:51; Eph 5:14; Matt 27:52; John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36; 1 Cor 15:6; 1 Thess 4:13-15; 2 Pet 3:4;
Has Jesus already raised everyone to heaven? (including Mary) Has the resurrection already happened (besides Jesus')?
John 6:39-44; John 6:54; John 11:24;
Has anyone gone to heaven yet? (including Mary?)
John 3:13; Acts 2:34;

 

[king1]

Then, why not Daniel, Joseph, Abraham, John, or Paul? The bigger problem is not that Mary is the mother of Jesus, but is that all there is to her role in the scheme of things? Other than being highly favoured, isn't she worth more? I watched a video by Tim Staples whose attempted explanation makes little sense to me. He uses Rev 5:8 and Rev 8:3-5 for justification, but I view "prayers of the saints" to mean a call for justice and not intercessory for others upon request from them. It is interesting as (I realize camera angles can give an incomplete picture) I noted a statue of Mary surrounded by lit candles.

I agree the Quran is a false book, but it contains a larger section on Mary than Jesus.

No argument when comparing Mary to Eve. Expanding on the role of disobedience, Eve was instructed by Adam whereas Adam was instructed directly by God.

No one has insulted you on this matter, my friend. Paul requested prayer from the saints of his day. Why did he not recommend calling upon Mary? Or to those saints who had gone before?

Cheers, John

So do you follow Christ or Paul. I believe even Paul has answered that. As far as Insults I pray for those that say they speak only the truth but again as Paul stated in Corinthians 13. "Truth with out love is a Resounding Gong" " "2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." Truth without Love leaves a bitter taste". I am sorry that you feel the that responses have been filled with Love but I do not see it.
When it comes down to it Christians divided (Catholics Protestants) are like Politicians (Democrats Republicans) they do not want to have dialogue, They only speak to their own they preach to the chior. What is the reason for this they know what they believe but stir up hate have power or appear to have power. There are over 38 thousand versions of Christians are they all one church. The church is the body of Christ, Perfection, but all churches are made of men, Inperfection. What does that mean there is truth in all the church, the body but there is also twisting of the word of God to Justify Mens own will.
This includes the Catholic Church, I personally am not in favor of priests not marrying but at the same time I am not against it. I believe they are missing out on a lot of men that would enter the priesthood but I also understand the vow of celibacy. It again is from Paul. I believe that orders of priest that can marry and other orders where the priest can take a vow of celibacy. Everything need to come from the Heart.