Born Again, continued

[Bill]

@Sue Everything God does and his servants are faked by Satan and all of his servants. This has been happening from the very beginning.

2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).
2Co 11:14 And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light;
2Co 11:15 So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds.

You can bet your life these "masquerading" as the messengers of God are faking the gifts of the spirit, and the Holy Spirit's fruit he produces through them! How else could the Church be deceived into receiving them into their fellowship?

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Fake "works" (outward actions) that look holy, and just but are only the works of the flesh! Jesus said, "I never knew you"

If you never use the Gift of Discernment you will never be able to desern truth from falsehood. The more you excercise the Gift the stronger your faith will be

 

[Bill]

@Sue Everything God does and his servants are faked by Satan and all of his servants. This has been happening from the very beginning.

2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles [spurious, counterfeits], deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ (the Messiah).
2Co 11:14 And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light;
2Co 11:15 So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds.

You can bet your life these "masquerading" as the messengers of God are faking the gifts of the spirit, and the Holy Spirit's fruit he produces through them! How else could the Church be deceived into receiving them into their fellowship?

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Fake "works" (outward actions) that look holy, and just but are only the works of the flesh! Jesus said, "I never knew you"

I just want to thank you for proving my point. Both you and Sue in her last entry

 

[Curtis]

If you never use the Gift of Discernment

There is no such thing as a "gift of discernment"! There is a "discerning of spirits" which you do not have because if you did you would have known nobody is born again from their mother's womb!

 

[Curtis]

The more you excercise the Gift the stronger your faith will be

This is not true!!! Faith never grows in quality, it grows in quantity and that by the Word of God which is its source!

 

[Bill]

Where is the roll my eyes emojie

Anyone up for a game of chess?

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- rolling your eyes -- or going for a game of chess Isn't going to make any difference. YOU were Not born-again in your mother's womb. Scripture says differently.

 

[Bill]

Bill -- rolling your eyes -- or going for a game of chess Isn't going to make any difference. YOU were Not born-again in your mother's womb. Scripture says differently.

Does scripture say it cant happen. . It happened to John the Baptist, why not someone else.

Do you remember what i said about molding scripture to fit your own ideas. Yet clearly John the Baptist was born , baptized in the Holy Spirit. Scripture never states John is the only one .

Just because it doesnt fit into your " normal " thinking, doesnt mean God cant choose to do it again

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- please look at Luke 1:41 "And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

The babe leaped in her womb Period. Elizabeth was 'filled with the Holy Spirit'.

Scripture does Not say that John the Baptist was baptized in the Holy Spirit while in his mother's womb.

Jesus , Himself, told Nicodemus in John 3 that a man / person has to be born physically first and Then can be born-again -- the being 'born-again' is the being 'baptized in the Holy Spirit' is talking about. Baptism Is immersion of a person's soul upon their salvation. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Bill -- He didn't do it the 1st time. You are reading into Scripture what You want it to say.

Salvation is God's way or it doesn't happen.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

I seem to recall that the word(s) used for 'born again' also translate as 'born from above'

Is there any difference? (not the same as 'being filled with the Holy Spirit'.... or, is it? )


Bless you ....><>

 

[Bill]

Bill -- please look at Luke 1:41 "And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

The babe leaped in her womb Period. Elizabeth was 'filled with the Holy Spirit'.

Scripture does Not say that John the Baptist was baptized in the Holy Spirit while in his mother's womb.

Jesus , Himself, told Nicodemus in John 3 that a man / person has to be born physically first and Then can be born-again -- the being 'born-again' is the being 'baptized in the Holy Spirit' is talking about. Baptism Is immersion of a person's soul upon their salvation. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Bill -- He didn't do it the 1st time. You are reading into Scripture what You want it to say.

Salvation is God's way or it doesn't happen.

Sue, go back to the same Gospel just a few verses before. The Angel of the Lord was speaking to Zechariah " Even from his mothers womb, he will be filled with the Holy Spirit " Luke 1 .16

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- that passage had come to mind , but I couldn't relocate it. Scripture itself said that John the Baptist was 'the' forerunner of Jesus Christ. No other person had that position. There was also only 'one' Judas Iscariot in Scripture -- do you want to identify with him, also? I don't think so. He was the one and only one who was willing to betray Jesus - for some money- and he went out - after the fact - and hung himself.

Mr Bear brought up an interesting question -- does being " filled with the Holy Spirit" equate to being born again or being born from above? I really don't think so -- because the rest of Scripture says that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell a person the moment of salvation and a person -- according to 1 Corinthians 15 needs to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day -- according to Scripture. An unborn child isn't capable of that -- a person needs to be able to believe in their heart and confess with their mouth, the Lord Jesus. An unborn child isn't capable of that and a child who's been born isn't capable of understanding right from wrong.

so -- there has to be a different explanation -- an Angel of the Lord would not be lying to Zechariah -- so the 'being filled with the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb was apparently another 'once in the history of' kind of thing. Being the forerunner of and baptizer of Jesus Christ were a 'once in history' thing.

so -- for Anyone to say that they are Also 'saved' / filled with the Holy Spirit while in their mother's womb" is simply disregarding the rest of what Scripture IS saying. Applying something somewhere that's not meant To be applied. And That could almost be put in the catagory of trying to promote a false doctrine / teaching/ regarding salvation. And That is something that no one would ever want to do.

 

[Bill]

Bill -- that passage had come to mind , but I couldn't relocate it. Scripture itself said that John the Baptist was 'the' forerunner of Jesus Christ. No other person had that position. There was also only 'one' Judas Iscariot in Scripture -- do you want to identify with him, also? I don't think so. He was the one and only one who was willing to betray Jesus - for some money- and he went out - after the fact - and hung himself.

Mr Bear brought up an interesting question -- does being " filled with the Holy Spirit" equate to being born again or being born from above? I really don't think so -- because the rest of Scripture says that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell a person the moment of salvation and a person -- according to 1 Corinthians 15 needs to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day -- according to Scripture. An unborn child isn't capable of that -- a person needs to be able to believe in their heart and confess with their mouth, the Lord Jesus. An unborn child isn't capable of that and a child who's been born isn't capable of understanding right from wrong.

so -- there has to be a different explanation -- an Angel of the Lord would not be lying to Zechariah -- so the 'being filled with the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb was apparently another 'once in the history of' kind of thing. Being the forerunner of and baptizer of Jesus Christ were a 'once in history' thing.

so -- for Anyone to say that they are Also 'saved' / filled with the Holy Spirit while in their mother's womb" is simply disregarding the rest of what Scripture IS saying. Applying something somewhere that's not meant To be applied. And That could almost be put in the catagory of trying to promote a false doctrine / teaching/ regarding salvation. And That is something that no one would ever want to do.

You are being very logical in your explanation. I too am a logical person. But when it comes to God , logic doesnt work . I. E. Moses bush on fire but not consumed.

God likes logical ppl. You me Moses etc. But God likes to mess with logic all the time . ( duckbill platipus comes to mind )

Scripture never says there is only 1 who comes from mothers womb that was filled with the Holy Spirit . It just says John did. Are we then going to say only Peter can walk on water, or only Paul can experience astrial projection (i dont a name for it) . Only Paul can be bit by a poisonous snake, only Elijah can run like the wind, only the Witnesses can bring down God's wrath. Well maybe the Witnesses are going a bit far, that is thier assingment. By the way, would 10 ft. Of snow be considered a plague or a gift when there is no rain .

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- now you're trying to mix apples and oranges - so to speak. You started out saying that you were saved in your mother's womb. That's dealing specifically with a person's salvation. That has eternal significants.

God has presented mankind / you and me and everyone/ with His plan for our salvation. His one and only way. Either a person accept's His way or they Don't. One results in eternity in heaven (new Jerusalem) and the Other results in eternity in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Peter's walking on the water was Not dealing with his salvation. all the other examples you brought up are Not dealing with salvation.

Weather conditions do Not affect a person's salvation.

And, in reality -- Nothing about our salvation Is logical. Miracles are Not logical. The virgin conceiving a baby is certainly Not logical. it was a one-time in the world occurance. As was the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. A one-time occurrance.

And you're grouping Me with you and Moses. I Don't think so. No Way.

 

[Curtis]

Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

Saved by grace through faith is the only way access is granted to salvation. No one can call on God by faith without first hearing the Gospel message which is how faith comes!

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Word of God is the "seed" by which anyone could be "born again", and that only after hearing it!

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Nobody could be "born again" until after Jesus Christ had risen from the dead!!

 

[Bill]

Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

Saved by grace through faith is the only way access is granted to salvation. No one can call on God by faith without first hearing the Gospel message which is how faith comes!

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Word of God is the "seed" by which anyone could be "born again", and that only after hearing it!

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Nobody could be "born again" until after Jesus Christ had risen from the dead!!

Are you born again if you are filled with the Holy Spirit? This is the question you are asking.

John was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb Luke 1: 16.

So based on your own conclusions, is the scripture talking about John being born again , or did he just have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..

 

[Bill]

Bill -- now you're trying to mix apples and oranges - so to speak. You started out saying that you were saved in your mother's womb. That's dealing specifically with a person's salvation. That has eternal significants.

God has presented mankind / you and me and everyone/ with His plan for our salvation. His one and only way. Either a person accept's His way or they Don't. One results in eternity in heaven (new Jerusalem) and the Other results in eternity in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Peter's walking on the water was Not dealing with his salvation. all the other examples you brought up are Not dealing with salvation.

Weather conditions do Not affect a person's salvation.

And, in reality -- Nothing about our salvation Is logical. Miracles are Not logical. The virgin conceiving a baby is certainly Not logical. it was a one-time in the world occurance. As was the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. A one-time occurrance.

And you're grouping Me with you and Moses. I Don't think so. No Way.

I wasnt mixing apples and oranges. You wanted to one off each item that came along. Can only one person be filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb. So if he wasnt born again, what does it mean to be Filled with the Holy Spirit.

Again the scripture never says he is the "only " one.

So going back to the only ones, or "one off " . No one else can walk on water, no one else can be bitten by a poisonous snake, etc. Etc.

 

[Curtis]

Are you born again if you are filled with the Holy Spirit? This is the question you are asking.

John was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb Luke 1: 16.

So based on your own conclusions, is the scripture talking about John being born again , or did he just have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit..

What does the scriptures say I just posted? You tell me.

 

[Bill]

What does the scriptures say I just posted? You tell me.

Do you call the name of the Lord with your mouth or in your heart.
Because not everyone who says Lord, Lord will be saved.

It isnt by the letter of the Law, it is by the Spirit of the Law.

If we are only a physical being, then what of the Deaf, who can not hear the word. Sign language isnt hearing with your ears. And what of those who can not speak "confess with your mouth" .

But God is both spirit and flesh. This is why we read about the circumcision of the heart. For anything can come from the mouth, but your true treasure is in the heart.

When we read the Word of the Lord. It isnt just what you see, it is what you take in to your heart. It is in your heart you recieve Jesus

 

[Curtis]

When we read the Word of the Lord. It isnt just what you see, it is what you take in to your heart. It is in your heart you recieve Jesus

Exactly, which is why no one is born again from their mother womb!

 

[Curtis]

Do you call the name of the Lord with your mouth or in your heart.

To believe is to "believe with the heart", and confess with the mouth! (Romans 10:9-10)