Biblical Accuracy

[Sue D.]

I urge all to use a bible that doesn't advocate false doctrines.


But we are ALWAYS "in Christ"...after our "immersion" into Him.
There is no sin "in Christ".
So those "in Christ" also have no sin in them.
Our sanctification is completed when His blood is applied while we are cleansed of all past sins. (Heb 10:10, 14)
The only thing "gradual" in the life of a Christian is our growth in grace and knowledge.

So --you're a KJV onlyist?!

And what false doctrines does the NKJV advocate? Or the ESV?

How are we 'immersed' into Him / Christ?

Christ was Not born with a sin nature -- we were. We have the propensity For sin, Christ does not.

That is what progressive sanctification Is / Means -- the gradual growth in our grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Growing to be more like Christ. Our accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior Does take place -- a one-time 'happening'. We start out our spiritual life as babes in Christ and through Bible reading / talking to God through Jesus Christ -- we 'grow' spiritually. Our desire will be to become more and more like Him. But we won't be completely In Him until we are With Him for eternity.

 

[Sue D.]

@At Peace -- Am hoping you'll respond back to # 16. You are apparently a strong advocate of the KJV. But since this thread topic is about sanctification -- I'd be redirecting off topic. I suppose it Could be stretched to respond if you feel that any other version teaches wrong doctrine. So -- what does NKJ say about sanctification that KJV doesn't.

 

[At Peace]

So --you're a KJV onlyist?!

Yes, I guess I am...as it is the only version that doesn't twist the scripture to accomodate sin in the faith.

And what false doctrines does the NKJV advocate? Or the ESV?

From my brief exposure to both I can say there are too many to list.

How are we 'immersed' into Him / Christ?

By baptism into Him and into His death, burial, and resurrection, (in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of past sins). (Rom 6:3)

Christ was Not born with a sin nature -- we were. We have the propensity For sin, Christ does not.

Where is it written that we have a "sin nature"?
If Jesus was not "like us", He cannot qualify for ..."For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Heb 4:15)

That is what progressive sanctification Is / Means -- the gradual growth in our grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Growing to be more like Christ.

That isn't "progressive sanctification".
It is progressive growth in grace and knowledge..
Growth in grace and knowledge will not sanctify us further than the application of the atoning blood of Christ has already accomplished.
Sanctify...Make holy, set apart, atone for, cleanse, consecrate...
Grace and knowledge cannot do more than the blood of Christ has already done.

Our accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior Does take place -- a one-time 'happening'. We start out our spiritual life as babes in Christ and through Bible reading / talking to God through Jesus Christ -- we 'grow' spiritually. Our desire will be to become more and more like Him.

As you wrote..."We start out...in Christ..."

But we won't be completely In Him until we are With Him for eternity.

You are back tracking on your own post.
It is written..."For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."
How much more "in Him" could I be?

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, I guess I am...as it is the only version that doesn't twist the scripture to accomodate sin in the faith.


From my brief exposure to both I can say there are too many to list.


By baptism into Him and into His death, burial, and resurrection, (in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of past sins). (Rom 6:3)


Where is it written that we have a "sin nature"?
If Jesus was not "like us", He cannot qualify for ..."For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Heb 4:15)


That isn't "progressive sanctification".
It is progressive growth in grace and knowledge..
Growth in grace and knowledge will not sanctify us further than the application of the atoning blood of Christ has already accomplished.
Sanctify...Make holy, set apart, atone for, cleanse, consecrate...
Grace and knowledge cannot do more than the blood of Christ has already done.


As you wrote..."We start out...in Christ..."


You are back tracking on your own post.
It is written..."For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."
How much more "in Him" could I be?

Do you know where the KJV comes from? How it came to Be?

If we didn't have a sin nature -- why would there be a need for salvation? Romans 3:23 "....for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

5:12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men...." the sin nature. In Genesis 3 -- Adam and Eve were told to Not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil -- but they did -- thus -- knowledge of evil. The sin nature.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- part of the sinless deity. He came into this world to point us to His Father in heaven.

Did you know that there are Also people who feel that the NAS is The best version. I'm thinking that the version that is the Best one, is that which people are willing to Read.

 

[B-A-C]

KJV, is considered about "middle of the road" for accuracy with the majority of transcripts. We have many more transcripts available to us now than
when the KJV was originally written.

======================
Charts
======================

What is the Best Bible Translation?

Translation Comparison Charts

Bible Translation Guide | Mardel

About Translations - Christianbook.com

Which Bible Translation Is Best? All the Good Ones. - LogosTalk

Bible translations: Comparison charts

Top Recommended Bibles (Versions)

=======================================

Even though these are all different organizations with differing opinions, ministries, and theologies... they all are remarkably close on
which versions they consider to be the most accurate. Very few sites consider the KJV the "most accurate".

I have seen some some KJV only sites compare to certain other modern versions about missing words and missing verses.
In some cases these sites are correct. But more often than not, the Bible with the missing word or verse, is actually more accurate to the
majority of the older manuscripts.

Also the King James, as well as the Tynedale Bible, use the textus receptus as the source for the new testament, rather than the original manuscripts.
So in reality, the KJV Bible is a translation of a translation.

Don't get me wrong, I like the King James, I use it, I grew up with it. But it generally isn't considered the most accurate.

 

[Sue D.]

KJV, is considered about "middle of the road" for accuracy with the majority of transcripts. We have many more transcripts available to us now than
when the KJV was originally written.

======================
Charts
======================

What is the Best Bible Translation?

Translation Comparison Charts

Bible Translation Guide | Mardel

About Translations - Christianbook.com

Which Bible Translation Is Best? All the Good Ones. - LogosTalk

Bible translations: Comparison charts

Top Recommended Bibles (Versions)

=======================================

Even though these are all different organizations with differing opinions, ministries, and theologies... they all are remarkably close on
which versions they consider to be the most accurate. Very few sites consider the KJV the "most accurate".

I have seen some some KJV only sites compare to certain other modern versions about missing words and missing verses.
In some cases these sites are correct. But more often than not, the Bible with the missing word or verse, is actually more accurate to the
majority of the older manuscripts.

Also the King James, as well as the Tynedale Bible, use the textus receptus as the source for the new testament, rather than the original manuscripts.
So in reality, the KJV Bible is a translation of a translation.

Don't get me wrong, I like the King James, I use it, I grew up with it. But it generally isn't considered the most accurate.

You're right -- it Isn't considered the most accurate. I've got a book that goes into detail about why we Can trust the Bible. All the various Bibles that have been translated into English -- how the KJV came into being.

It was once called the Authorized King James Version -- it was , in fact, 'authorized' by King James 1 -- back Then - - in order for any literature to be published -- it had to be 'authorized' by the King. And it was written in the language spoken, written in that day / age. Which is why it has been useful to up-date the vocabulary used.

And translating from the Greek / Hebrew / Aramaic to Any other language is complicated. No two alphabets of any two languages are the same.

Thanks for sharing all the information you listed.

 

[At Peace]

Do you know where the KJV comes from? How it came to Be?

Yes, the answer to your question is in the preface of the book.

If we didn't have a sin nature -- why would there be a need for salvation? Romans 3:23 "....for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

I don't know why you asked that.
After we have turned from sin, and crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and been reborn of God's seed, we don't have a "sin nature" anymore.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

Did you know that there are Also people who feel that the NAS is The best version. I'm thinking that the version that is the Best one, is that which people are willing to Read.

After comparing 2 Tim 3:17 in NAS and KJV, I've decided the KJV appeals to the folks who want to serve God "perfectly" and the NAS appeals to the folks who want to serve God "adequately".
Is that difference small or great?

 

[At Peace]

You're right -- it Isn't considered the most accurate. I've got a book that goes into detail about why we Can trust the Bible. All the various Bibles that have been translated into English -- how the KJV came into being.

It was once called the Authorized King James Version -- it was , in fact, 'authorized' by King James 1 -- back Then - - in order for any literature to be published -- it had to be 'authorized' by the King. And it was written in the language spoken, written in that day / age. Which is why it has been useful to up-date the vocabulary used.

And translating from the Greek / Hebrew / Aramaic to Any other language is complicated. No two alphabets of any two languages are the same.

Thanks for sharing all the information you listed.

Do you think God had any hand in the "translation" of a bible that has lasted 400 years, so far?

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, the answer to your question is in the preface of the book.


I don't know why you asked that.
After we have turned from sin, and crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and been reborn of God's seed, we don't have a "sin nature" anymore.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)


After comparing 2 Tim 3:17 in NAS and KJV, I've decided the KJV appeals to the folks who want to serve God "perfectly" and the NAS appeals to the folks who want to serve God "adequately".
Is that difference small or great?

2 Timothy 3:17 "So that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." vs 16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, training in righteousness."

I don't see the connection between your comment and the passage you listed.

My comment about the KJV -- do you realize that the first Bible put in print in English was The Coverdale Bible in 1535.

The KJV is a combination of 54 scholars working for six years in six teams using the Bishops Bible and Tyndales' Bible as well as available Greek / Hebrew manuscripts == 1611 The edition used today was revised in 1769.

 

[At Peace]

2 Timothy 3:17 "So that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." vs 16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, training in righteousness."

"So that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NAS
"That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." KJV
Which version of verse 17 do you figure will most appeal to those who serve God "perfectly"?

It is a question of "adequacy" verses "Perfection".

 

[Sue D.]

"So that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NAS
"That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." KJV
Which version of verse 17 do you figure will most appeal to those who serve God "perfectly"?

It is a question of "adequacy" verses "Perfection".

How would you rate the wording of the rendering that I shared of the Timothy passage. "may be thoroughly equipped'.

I will probably be leaving this particular conversation with you very soon. We go round and round on the subject of perfection in this life.

You sounded concerned about the coming judgement of God. Since you see yourself as living in perfection Now -- why are you concerned about it. What would you be getting judged About?

 

[B-A-C]

Do you think God had any hand in the "translation" of a bible that has lasted 400 years, so far?

I wonder if He had a hand in the Bible that existed 1500 years before that. Or even the Torah that existed
2,000 years before that. The King James isn't the original, it's a "new-comer" like all other English Bibles.

 

[Sue D.]

I wonder if He had a hand in the Bible that existed 1500 years before that. Or even the Torah that existed
2,000 years before that. The King James isn't the original, it's a "new-comer" like all other English Bibles.

All Scripture is given to mankind by God -- God gave regular people the information they needed through the Holy Spirit. All of the books we have Now - in bound book form - were separate for many years.

His / God's hand is the only hand that's important. We are told to Not add to or subtract From Scripture. There are groups who take God's Word and Add their own books to it. Pearl of Great Price is one of them. And some people Don't like Scriptures' teachings Against various activities -- the various things that happened in the O. T. -- the flood -- for instance. People would Like to take those Out because they don't make sense -- but No We Don't take them out. They Are in fact God's Word to us.

And maybe -- they believe that KJV is special because it was referred to as the Authorized KJV. It was believed by some to have been authorized directly by the Holy Spirit. But it wasn't. And some love the Kings' English -- the poetic flow. Or its' extra special because - after all -- a King Did authorize it's printing.

I'd commented about the process of translating written material from one language to another. Yes, God did have a hand in that process. But various language still have different alphabets. Language is based on letters being put together in various combinations. Spanish does Not have the same alphabet that English does. So -- when translating -- there are going to be some words in One language that don't exist in the Other language. Spanish is pretty close to English so it's not all that hard to translate. But the harder languages -- Russian is one -- Chinese -- Japanese. Symbols that 'contain' several words. So -- it's no easy job translating from English To those harder languages. And the culture has to be considered. Local idioms -- figures of speech -- Our phrase "it's raining hard outside" how does a person describe 'hard' rain -- compared to 'soft' rain?! Or "it's raining cats and dogs outside" WE know we won't see cats and dogs coming down from the sky. WE know what we're talking about but telling someone in a foreign hot, dry climate about 'rain' Might be a bit difficult. So the translator has to find a word / phrase that they can compare it to in order to understand what is being talked about. The concept that They are Trying to convey to someone in that other language.

There are people with a real gift For languages -- they can learn multiple language and converse in any of them. And others with a gift for translating.

Some years ago - on another Forum -- there was someone who didn't trust the KJV. It seems that they'd heard that one of the women on one of the several teams of translators was lesbian. They were concerned that she'd have too much influence in the translating -- about verses relating to homosexuality. Well -- whatever influence she probably did Not have -- there's still enough Scripture to let us know that it isn't Godly -- it's an abomination to Him to ACT ON those attractions. As a life-style.

So, yes, the KJV is a relative new-comer in the world of printed Bibles.

 

[At Peace]

How would you rate the wording of the rendering that I shared of the Timothy passage. "may be thoroughly equipped'.

That isn't the differing portion of the verse.

You sounded concerned about the coming judgement of God. Since you see yourself as living in perfection Now -- why are you concerned about it. What would you be getting judged About?

I will be judged for every word I speak.
So will everyone else.

 

[At Peace]

I wonder if He had a hand in the Bible that existed 1500 years before that. Or even the Torah that existed
2,000 years before that. The King James isn't the original, it's a "new-comer" like all other English Bibles.

If you "wonder" about it, doesn't that make the bible hard to believe?

 

[Sue D.]

That isn't the differing portion of the verse.


I will be judged for every word I speak.
So will everyone else.

If, as you say you are, living a perfect life -- doesn't that include every word you speak. So what is there about your speech that would Need to be judged by God.

The differing portion of the verse -- looking back at #33 -- NAS = adequate KJ = perfect, thoroughly. Mine used the word 'thoroughly'- also. But I haven't shared which version of the Bible I use.

Does Anyone Truly feel that they serve God Perfectly? We serve Him to the best of our ability. God calls us to do 'something' for Him. He will give us whatever it is we need to do that task. But does Anyone really feel adequate? I don't think so.

I've looked up Revelation 20 -- the dead being judged -- vs 12 according to what they'd done as recorded in the books. vs 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. and that was the 2nd death.

vs 8 of chapter 21 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice m agic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the 2nd death."

Those who are 'saved' / accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior / will either be raptured up by Jesus Christ -- if we're still alive at that time. Or we die and are Also immediately with Jesus Christ. At some point, we Will be giving an account to Jesus Christ as to what we've done in our lives Since our salvation. We might be sad about opportunities we've found we've missed. Or sad that some of our loved ones never did get 'saved' and won't be with us in eternity. We might end up regretting that we didn't do anything to receive a crown that we Can lay at Jesus feet.

You seem to be concerned about being judged by God for 'every word you speak'. So -- Why would you feel that way? Since you and apparently all others who are perfect in Christ Now won't Be sinning. Apparently you shouldn't Have any 'word' to be concerned about.

 

[At Peace]

If, as you say you are, living a perfect life -- doesn't that include every word you speak. So what is there about your speech that would Need to be judged by God.

All my words will be judged by God, and I hope He will be glad for each one.
That is the goal I reach for...to here "Well done my good and faithful servant"
I can't imagine any sanctified man who doesn't hope the same.

The differing portion of the verse -- looking back at #33 -- NAS = adequate KJ = perfect, thoroughly. Mine used the word 'thoroughly'- also. But I haven't shared which version of the Bible I use.

If your use of the word "adequate" can be understood as "perfect"...I have no problem with it.
Does it?
I don't think so.

Does Anyone Truly feel that they serve God Perfectly? We serve Him to the best of our ability. God calls us to do 'something' for Him. He will give us whatever it is we need to do that task. But does Anyone really feel adequate? I don't think so.

You realize that God will give us all we need to accomplish His desire, (including Matt.5:48)...but then back-track to "I don't think so".
Why?

I've looked up Revelation 20 -- the dead being judged -- vs 12 according to what they'd done as recorded in the books. vs 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. and that was the 2nd death.
vs 8 of chapter 21 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice m agic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the 2nd death."

Why does your version of the bible interject the word "practice" in verse 8?
Does it matter less if the wickedness was done once or a hundred times?

You seem to be concerned about being judged by God for 'every word you speak'. So -- Why would you feel that way? Since you and apparently all others who are perfect in Christ Now won't Be sinning. Apparently you shouldn't Have any 'word' to be concerned about.

It is written..."But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (Matt 12:36-37)
To ignore that exhortation from Jesus would be my undoing.
It would be a sign of unsanctification.

 

[B-A-C]

Why does your version of the bible interject the word "practice" in verse 8?

Why does "your Bible" delete it? It IS in most manuscripts.

 

[At Peace]

Why does "your Bible" delete it? It IS in most manuscripts.

Because my version IS from God.
I just checked about fifteen different versions of Rev 21:8, and found just one had the word "practice" in it.

 

[Sue D.]

Because my version IS from God.
I just checked about fifteen different versions of Rev 21:8, and found just one had the word "practice" in it.

Where did you find Your info / How did you check all those many different versions in order to get that information. Which version Did you find the word "practice" in it.