Beliefs of RCC / Biblical?

[KingJ]

You might not call yourself an RCC -- but you pretty much are. You Are promoting their beliefs.

Identifying hateful uninformed statements and opinions is not promoting their beliefs.

It is all about proper discernment and judgement. We should always judge every matter properly.

 

[KingJ]

God's Word alone is to be our guideline -- This thread is focusing on the RCC beliefs and Bible. But the same can be applied to Any belief system. Who is Jesus Christ -- did He come into this world through a virgin -- did He die on the cross shedding His blood for our sins and did He rise again bodily from the dead. Yes, to all of those. According To Scripture. Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- not simply a good religious teacher of that time in history.

Various groups take Bible Plus the church fathers' Or writings from other people.

As born-again believers, we Are to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. God Does have things He wants us to do for Him. But those are not Unto salvation they are the result Of our salvation.

Anything we hear we are to verify that they are Indeed correct teaching as per God's Word. Most of the time we Don't because we trust the pastor or S. S. teacher to be teaching God's Word. And when we read on our own -- we Do recognize correct teaching As well as that which is Off.

@KingJ -- Scripture says that even in our sin -- while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He Didn't say -- clean up your act 1st and Then I'll do what I can to save you. Jesus Christ went to hell and back up In Our Place.
In post 155 you agreed with what I was saying about salvation, but in realty you don't. You use the term 'purify / purified' in a different way -- you equate the hell part of Abraham's bosum as a time of purification. No one is purified in Haddes / hell / whatever title applies. It's where all non-believers go -- waiting in agony until the real agony starts After the great white throne judgement takes place. There Is a verse that seems to indicate that Jesus Christ Does present salvation to the people who died with out placing their faith in the coming messiah in the Old Testament -- that they are given One More Chance to accept what He did for them and Then He takes the people waiting in Paradise back up with Him.
You've commented that the RCC seems to have That right -- but they Don't because there's no such place. But that's already been discussed.

Sue, you making false accusations. All I ask is that you re-read my posts and if you still feel this way, please quote me.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- every single passage you use is Scriptural -- but it's the way you present them -- the purpose this discussion was to compare the practices / beliefs of the RCC with Scripture. There are no works involved in salvation. Jesus Christ already did everything necessary For our salvation -- his shed blood on the cross. " I am the way, the truth and the life - No man comes to the Father , but by Me". That is Jesus Christ speaking.

Being willing to lay down our life for another person -- a great act of love -- yes -- but that's not a Requirement For salvation. Those other things you've brought up -- For After our salvation -- but not For our salvation. Hopefully people Will see God in our life. They Should be seeing Christ in our lives. Our lives Might be the 1st Bible a person 'reads'.

 

[KingJ]

Being willing to lay down our life for another person -- a great act of love -- yes -- but that's not a Requirement For salvation.

Matt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Do you think Jesus is alluding to a trivial dedication in Matt 16:24? Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Deny himself = We have to say ''let God's will be done''. We want vengeance, God wants us to love our enemies. So we ''lay our lives down for His will''.

Take up His cross = We choose to serve God where He has placed us. We may desire to be in Hawaii surfing and drinking all day. We may desire sex with many partners. But we choose to carry our cross. So we ''lay our lives down for His will''.

Follow me = It is not easy to walk with or behind someone so many hate. Wicked and religious people were offended by Jesus. Peter denied Him three times. Judas betrayed him. If we cannot follow Jesus, Jesus wants nothing to do with us. Can you blame Him? So we ''lay our lives down for Him''.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- I'm deciding to refrain from any more discussion with you on this subject. It's going absoluteley no where.

Loosing a person's life is Not necessarily dying a physical death.

the verse says 'deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Him -- you seem to be aquaiting taking up your cross with dying. Taking a stand for Jesus Christ is not going to be easy. and then, again, it could bring great blessings.

Now -- if someone came up to me and threatened to kill me if I didn't reject Jesus Christ -- then, yes, I'd be willing to die rather than reject or deny Christ.

So - now - please -- no more comments --it's been getting argumentative.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- I'm deciding to refrain from any more discussion with you on this subject. It's going absoluteley no where.

Loosing a person's life is Not necessarily dying a physical death.

the verse says 'deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Him -- you seem to be aquaiting taking up your cross with dying. Taking a stand for Jesus Christ is not going to be easy. and then, again, it could bring great blessings.

Now -- if someone came up to me and threatened to kill me if I didn't reject Jesus Christ -- then, yes, I'd be willing to die rather than reject or deny Christ.

So - now - please -- no more comments --it's been getting argumentative.

You have been insulting to the RCC from your first post.

I propose before you critisize other's beliefs you do proper research. Our discussion goes nowhere because you don't want a proper discussion. You just want to state your opinion.

Then, you don't read and try understand points made. Take for example the above from you. This is just shocking. Where do you get that I said it must always be a physical death? ''facepalm''.

 

[KingJ]

I like what you have written in the above Post Sue, I didn't get involved discussing Purgatory because, I felt/feel it is not scripture based, I also did not know enough to comment, a paddle in the water is fine, but it is not good to keep walking if you don't understand how to swim. I avoid getting involved in what I don't know enough about.

Your comments, it is true or it isn't, is where I stand also, and if it is not in scripture, the Canonised Word of God, to me it is a RCC addition.

But the concept of purgatory is a very important concept. Either it's true or it Isn't. Just like there's one way and only one way to enter heaven. Either accept God's gift Of or reject it. There are no detours offered to get us to the same location.

Bless you

Purgatory is not a plan to bypass Jesus. It is seen as a time to make right with Jesus.

Brother Paul I asked something previously but have got no response. Why is it that Purgatory is shunned and not an anti purification / anti - OSAS belief?

I quoted so many scriptures outside of the Maccabees that are used to support the idea. It comes into existence pretty much like the trinity does.

Though, I don't believe in it because of other verses. But I can certainly understand some believing in it.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Purgatory is not a plan to bypass Jesus. It is seen as a time to make right with Jesus.

Brother Paul I asked something previously but have got no response. Why is it that Purgatory is shunned and not an anti purification / anti - OSAS belief?

I quoted so many scriptures outside of the Maccabees that are used to support the idea. It comes into existence pretty much like the trinity does.

Though, I don't believe in it because of other verses. But I can certainly understand some believing in it.

Greetings brother

In all honesty I have not followed the conversation in this thread, you and Sue seemed to be battling so I left it, there were other more pressing posts and prayer requests I felt.

The other reason is I do not see purgatory in The Word, between Gen 1:1 and Rev 22:21

Now it you would like to collate all scripture, with Bible version, in context, in one post, that you feel shows purgatory is definitely in scripture, I would read and listen to what you have to say, prayerfully consider your comments and reply. You know from past discussions together, that I am always happy to consider what brothers and sisters in Christ say from scripture, I do so with an open mind. But I am not happy to dredge back through the thread to look for what has been discussed and pick up the pieces, I would no doubt end up with my head spinning as your messages one to another have been going back and forth like a table tennis ball. (In the odd times I glanced at this topic)

If you decide to collate verses from scripture, please stick to those in The Word, between Gen 1:1 and Rev 22:21

Shalom