Becoming Sinless.

[Bendito]

Ezekiel 14:14-20
14 even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD. 15 "If I cause wild beasts to pass through the land, and they ravage it, and it be made desolate, so that no one may pass through because of the beasts, 16 even if these three men were in it, as I live, declares the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither sons nor daughters. They alone would be delivered, but the land would be desolate. 17 "Or if I bring a sword upon that land and say, Let a sword pass through the land, and I cut off from it man and beast, 18 though these three men were in it, as I live, declares the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they alone would be delivered. 19 "Or if I send a pestilence into that land and pour out my wrath upon it with blood, to cut off from it man and beast, 20 even if Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, declares the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither son nor daughter. They would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness.

Isaiah 64:King James Version (KJV)
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

I would rather have His righteousness

 

[Dovegiven]

Is it so difficult? Who was the man speaking to? Gentiles/ unsaved people. Look.
He was not talking to Christians

I was agreeing up to that. John wrote that epistle to the church while pastor at Ephesus. There are no epistles addressed to sinners. 1 John 2:13-14 (KJV)
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Moving on, consider Adam. He was created perfect, "good". We don't know how long he lived until sinning, but a flesh and blood man was originally sinless like Jesus. Jesus came taking place for us as the last Adam, overcoming the natural man because Jesus was a heavenly man. 1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Now if Adam could be sinless a while, I don't believe it's necessary for a natural-born man like Adam to only find righteousness in eternity future, but can find that in Christ now. I believe you laid that out well.

The way to do that in this life is to be instant to confess any sin, repenting of it, then knowing that's forgiven now, not in eternity only. So it is my understanding is that we believe unto righteousness imputed in this body now, but remain responsible for overcoming sin to the end of our lives here.

let's all take heed of this:
2 Peter 2:19-22 (KJV)
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Curtis]

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What does it mean that the ,"blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin". When is this taking place? Only while we are walking in his light! Why would the Blood of Jesus need to cleanse us from all sin when we are walking in the light? This scripture is not telling us that we are never sinning when we are walking in the light, but that it is constantly cleansing us from sin! why? Because we are sinners!!! God only deals with man according to his faith, not his sin. It takes "faith" to walk in his light! How do I know this? Because what ever is NOT of faith is sin.

 

[Bendito]

Ezekiel 14:14-20
14 even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD. 15 "If I cause wild beasts to pass through the land, and they ravage it, and it be made desolate, so that no one may pass through because of the beasts, 16 even if these three men were in it, as I live, declares the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither sons nor daughters. They alone would be delivered, but the land would be desolate. 17 "Or if I bring a sword upon that land and say, Let a sword pass through the land, and I cut off from it man and beast, 18 though these three men were in it, as I live, declares the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they alone would be delivered. 19 "Or if I send a pestilence into that land and pour out my wrath upon it with blood, to cut off from it man and beast, 20 even if Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, declares the Lord GOD, they would deliver neither son nor daughter. They would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness.

I find this to be most intriguing "Their own righteousness" From the Hebrew It's a different dispensation. A different covenant, men stood or fell by faith...Abraham was accounted righteous because of his faith. Faith is a thing given us by God.....ergo it was Gods faith in them being counted as righteousness? Pray about that. I'm not sure and am simply brainstorming it here.

 

[Bendito]

I was agreeing up to that. John wrote that epistle to the church while pastor at Ephesus. There are no epistles addressed to sinners. 1 John 2:13-14 (KJV)
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Moving on, consider Adam. He was created perfect, "good". We don't know how long he lived until sinning, but a flesh and blood man was originally sinless like Jesus. Jesus came taking place for us as the last Adam, overcoming the natural man because Jesus was a heavenly man. 1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Now if Adam could be sinless a while, I don't believe it's necessary for a natural-born man like Adam to only find righteousness in eternity future, but can find that in Christ now. I believe you laid that out well.

The way to do that in this life is to be instant to confess any sin, repenting of it, then knowing that's forgiven now, not in eternity only. So it is my understanding is that we believe unto righteousness imputed in this body now, but remain responsible for overcoming sin to the end of our lives here.

let's all take heed of this:
2 Peter 2:19-22 (KJV)
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Not sure what you're saying here Dovegiven. If one reads the chapter 1 John 1 in its entirety it is obviously pointed at the unsaved. Hmmmm Or at Christians that have been led astray?

 

[Dovegiven]

Not sure what you're saying here Dovegiven. If one reads the chapter 1 John 1 in its entirety it is obviously pointed at the unsaved. Hmmmm Or at Christians that have been led astray?

How could that epistle be written to unsaved sinners whose young men have overcome the devil? Many statements support John writing to Christians, such as 1 John 2:12 (KJV)
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Nowhere in scriptures is it taught that unsaved sinners are "little children", or that as not born again their sins are forgiven. None have Jesus as their advocate. This can't possibly apply to lost sinners:
1 John 2:20-21 (KJV) 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[B-A-C]

What does it mean that the ,"blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin". When is this taking place? Only while we are walking in his light! Why would the Blood of Jesus need to cleanse us from all sin when we are walking in the light? This scripture is not telling us that we are never sinning when we are walking in the light, but that it is constantly cleansing us from sin! why? Because we are sinners!!! God only deals with man according to his faith, not his sin. It takes "faith" to walk in his light! How do I know this? Because what ever is NOT of faith is sin.

Is that the only thing that is sin? As far as that goes, I can certainly have total faith that what I'm doing IS indeed sin.
What this verse is saying here, is that your conscience should be guiding you to do what is right and not what is wrong.
There are people in the world convinced that homosexuality isn't a sin.. they have total faith in this. Does that make it less of a sin, just because they have faith that it isn't?

Matt 6:22; says if your eye is clear, then your body will be full of light.
It goes on to say but if your eye is bad, your whole body is full of darkness.
No one can serve two masters.... you're either serving God or darkness.

Luke 11:35; goes on to say, Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.
John 8:12; Jesus says... "I am the Light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in the darkness; but will have the Light
of life".

There are many people who believe in Jesus... but they aren't following Him. They are still in darkness.
There are even Christians who bind themselves to darkness.
2 Cor 6:14; is talking about marriage, but if it's possible is marriage, can it be possible in other ways?

Eph 5:1-7; talks about all the things Christians shouldn't do. ( immorality, impurity, greed, filthiness,
coarse jesting, covetousness, idolatry, etc.. ).. verse 8 goes to say ..
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord, therefore walk as children of Light.

Obviously if we go back to doing those things, we are back in the darkness.
(They aren't following Jesus, even though they believe in Him).

1 Jn 1:5-7; says (verse 6) If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not
practice the truth; ( verse 7 ) but "IF" we walk in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of
Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. ( Do unbelievers say they have fellowship with Him? )

Walking is an action... it is more than simply believing. Walking in the Light requires us to do something.
The "IF" above (emphasis mine) implies that this is a condition... if we meet this condition, then He will cleanse
us from sin... IF we do not meet this condition, then He won't.

 

[Curtis]

Is that the only thing that is sin? As far as that goes, I can certainly have total faith that what I'm doing IS indeed sin.
What this verse is saying here, is that your conscience should be guiding you to do what is right and not what is wrong.
There are people in the world convinced that homosexuality isn't a sin.. they have total faith in this. Does that make it less of a sin, just because they have faith that it isn't?

Matt 6:22; says if your eye is clear, then your body will be full of light.
It goes on to say but if your eye is bad, your whole body is full of darkness.
No one can serve two masters.... you're either serving God or darkness.

Luke 11:35; goes on to say, Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.
John 8:12; Jesus says... "I am the Light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in the darkness; but will have the Light
of life".

There are many people who believe in Jesus... but they aren't following Him. They are still in darkness.
There are even Christians who bind themselves to darkness.
2 Cor 6:14; is talking about marriage, but if it's possible is marriage, can it be possible in other ways?

Eph 5:1-7; talks about all the things Christians shouldn't do. ( immorality, impurity, greed, filthiness,
coarse jesting, covetousness, idolatry, etc.. ).. verse 8 goes to say ..
for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord, therefore walk as children of Light.

Obviously if we go back to doing those things, we are back in the darkness.
(They aren't following Jesus, even though they believe in Him).

1 Jn 1:5-7; says (verse 6) If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not
practice the truth; ( verse 7 ) but "IF" we walk in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of
Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Walking is an action... it is more than simply believing. Walking in the Light requires us to do something.
The "IF" above (emphasis mine) implies that this is a condition... if we meet this condition, then He will cleanse
us from sin... IF we do not meet this condition, then He won't.

There is no doubt that a Christian can walk in "darkness", but that does not mean that "darkness" is inside them. Growing spiritually is similar as physical growth. There will many times we fall short, and do stupid things, and that is where the grace of God comes to our aid. Where sin abounds grace does much more abound. Walking in the light is only done by faith. Believing is a "work". Jesus said.....

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

It takes "work" to overcome mans carnal mind which is the enemy of God. God only hold us accountable for the light we have inside us. Unto much is given much is required. What about the light we don't have? This is were we fall short and need the Blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin. No body is born a full grown man, and we need his grace continually until we receive our new supernatural body without all it's nagging passions of sins in the flesh.

 

[Dovegiven]

There is no doubt that a Christian can walk in "darkness", but that does not mean that "darkness" is inside them. Growing spiritually is similar as physical growth. There will many times we fall short, and do stupid things, and that is where the grace of God comes to our aid. Where sin abounds grace does much more abound. Walking in the light is only done by faith. Believing is a "work". Jesus said.....

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

It takes "work" to overcome mans carnal mind which is the enemy of God. God only hold us accountable for the light we have inside us. Unto much is given much is required. What about the light we don't have? This is were we fall short and need the Blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin. No body is born a full grown man, and we need his grace continually until we receive our new supernatural body without all it's nagging passions of sins in the flesh.

I have had fruit trees, muscadine grape vines,vege gardens for most of my life. I am pretty good at inspecting fruit. I no longer have to pick something to know whether it will be acceptable or not. I can go by it's fragrance/odor/appearance, or maybe just that a fruit is covered with gnats or worms or fungus or bacterial infection consuming it. A peach tree might appear to be one by it's form, it;s leaves, buds, flowers, and of course fruit. I bought a nice 5 year old hybrid ball & burlap peach, put a lot of work into it. The fruit it produced resembled over-ripe plums, not peach, so I cut it down, replaced it with a real peach.

Anyone just appearing to walk in darkness will be subject to judging their fruit for light. Neighbors and God do that.