Baptism in Water

[CliffS]

Baptism is essential to salvation. Jesus says in no uncertain terms that you MUST be born again of water and spirit or you dont get to the final destination.

Then the theif on the cross beside Jesus was water baptized????
God has the power to save anyone and everyone in any manner He so chooses. Surely you arn't saying that he can't. If God chooses to take an individual between their acceptance of Jesus and their water baptism, Are you saying they are not saved????? If so ? Based on what???
I agree that water baptism in important. I believe that if one (having the chance to)does not get water baptized then their commitment and salvation are at least questionable. But that doesn't mean they are not saved nor does water baptism assure salvation.
I believe water baptism is more dependant on salvation than salvation dependant on baptism.
Instead of asking what we must do to be saved we should be discussing how we show gratitude for our salvation. My first act of gratitude was to get baptized. If not as an act of obediance then what causes an individual to be baptized???

Well, grace in general is a gift of God. But Jesus again does say "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Well, grace in general is a gift of God.
But Jesus again does say "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
The common perseption of John 3:5 is that "born of water" is baptism. But John 3:6 indicates that born of water is symbolic for "born of the flesh".
In other words one must be born of flesh and spirit to be saved.
Some say that "born of water" is the water of the womb. I find that to be a bit graffic and confusing but possibly having some symbolic merit.
Water baptism is way too often used as a means to judge the salvation of others. Something scripture tells us not to do.
Being baptized to be saved is essentialy placing our faith in the proper actions of ourselves and those who baptize us. That is legalism ,plain and simple. The belief that man can do or not do anything that has an effect on ones salvation, other than for the individual to accept the gift.
Water baptism can be no more than evidence of obedience, receiving the Holy Spirit or at the most salvation. And at that it certianly can't be concidered absolute.

 

[of_the_rose]

Excellent and amen

I was baptised when I was a baby the traditional catholic way. To me that is improper and unbiblical. A baby does not know whats happening for him/her to profess their own faith of Christ.

Since I've been saved nearly four years ago, I have not been baptised in water yet due to much reasons that I am dealing with personally but I wish to do it when I am ready both spiritually and emotionally. I refuse to forget GOD's commands but remain obedient to His Word.

Chad, I totally agree with you! I was also baptized as an infant, and did not know the implications of what was happening to me. I think it is so much more meaningfull, when a person consciously chooses to follow Christ, before taking the leap of baptism.

And I also, have been saved relatively recently. And I have been putting it off, because of my personal reasons!

 

[bruce bunnell]

cliffs, the New Testament Church of Christ hadn't been set up yet. the thief didn't need to be baptized. neither did Enoch when God took him. we have a guide book and a plan of salvation, its best to follow the plan.

 

[Faithful Son]

If you guys read my profile you will see what I went through as a young Christian. I was rebellious against the belief system of the Church and only wanted to know Jesus "my way". I see it as an act of rebelliousness if you don't get baptised, I told myself I have to work through personal problems and I always thought people were "fake" for getting baptised.

It's an act of willingness and obedience to Christ to be baptised. It's not supposed to be something to think about, but a "next step" to becoming holy and living the way Christ wants you to. It starts with obedience to Christ and what He told us to do

I hope I have not offended, but don't bluff yourselves and put it off due to personal issues. Surrender all to Christ, including your old way of life, be reborn completely.

 

[Gideon]

Baptism is a commandment of God. Jesus said "Those who love Me shall obey my commandments"

I was 'baptised' as a baby as well. But when I got saved at the age of 19, the Spirit led me into all truth and thus I decided to get baptised.... the real baptism. So I was water baptised, the Bible way, after a year of my salvation.

Baptism is not your passport to heaven but salvation is. But I don't see a point in being saved and disobeying the easiest commandment of all. There is grace attached to obeying God and His commandments. So I urge any new believer to be baptised after confessing your faith in Jesus. And I feel it is not good to delay your baptism. Simply because .... do you want to miss out on anything that God has in store for you???

Read Acts 8:26-40.

 

[CliffS]

cliffs, the New Testament Church of Christ hadn't been set up yet. the thief didn't need to be baptized. neither did Enoch when God took him. we have a guide book and a plan of salvation, its best to follow the plan.

Never said we didn't and never said we shouldn't. Never once said that any person able to shouldn't be baptized. What I said was telling some one that baptism saves and judging by baptism is just plain wrong. We certianly should follow the plan but the plan doesn't include a church saying what words must be said and judging by their doctrine.

Baptism is a commandment of God. Jesus said "Those who love Me shall obey my commandments" . . .

Baptism is not your passport to heaven but salvation is. But I don't see a point in being saved and disobeying the easiest commandment of all. There is grace attached to obeying God and His commandments. So I urge any new believer to be baptised after confessing your faith in Jesus. And I feel it is not good to delay your baptism. Simply because .... do you want to miss out on anything that God has in store for you???

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[jiggyfly]

Acts 10:43-48
43*He is the one all the prophets testified about, saying that everyone who believes in him will have their sins forgiven through his name.”
44*Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message. 45*The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles, too. 46*And there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter asked, 47*“Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?” 48*So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days.


Acts 19:1-7
1*While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers.* 2*“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we don’t know what you mean. We haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3*“Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4*Paul said, “John’s baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later.”
5*As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6*Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7*There were about twelve men in all.

 

[bruce bunnell]

Never said we didn't and never said we shouldn't. Never once said that any person able to shouldn't be baptized. What I said was telling some one that baptism saves and judging by baptism is just plain wrong. We certianly should follow the plan but the plan doesn't include a church saying what words must be said and judging by their doctrine.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

1st peter 3;21 " and corresponding to that BABPTISM NOW SAVES YOU. "

 

[Faithful Son]

Just so everyone can read it. Thanks Bruce Bunnell

1 Peter 3:18-22

18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

 

[jiggyfly]

1st peter 3;21 " and corresponding to that BABPTISM NOW SAVES YOU. "

Is this scripture referring to water baptism?

 

[Tonyb]

Hi Folks,
I was once really messed up in my head concerning baptism in water. Much of this was due to the utter rubbish I was taught in the Church I used to go to. I was told you must be born of water and the Spirit before you can enter on into the kingdom of God. I found this to be false. I was also told that when I was baptised in water my bad habits/sins would just drop off. I also found this to be false. Three days after my batisim I was so angry I wanted to sue the pastor, for making false promises.

I didn't sue the pastor, in fact I didn't even make an issue of it. And I finally decided it was me that must have been wrong, somehow, in the first instance.

But in the coming months and years I started to labour under a massive misapprehension concerning water baptism. I had it firmly fixed in my head that water baptism produces death to sin. And just about everywhere the word baptism occurs in the New Testament Epistles it means water baptism. This became a major stronghold in my mind.

I didn't start to get free from this religious error until I began to realise the baptism I had been batised into was in fact Christ's death when He died on the Cross. It was something spiritual that God had done. It was when I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour, that's when what God had done through Christ upon the cross 2,000 years ago became a realitiy in my life. I had been crucified with Christ, I had been baptised into His death, the old me had been buried with Him by baptism into His death.

I pesonally believe that Romans chapter 6: 3-4 has nothing what so ever to do with being dipped in water. It is all part of what happens when someone is born again, as is walking in newness of life and being raised up and seated in the heavenlies in Christ. You don't get born again and then go through a state of limbo whereby you are not risen with Christ until you've been dipped in water.

It would be interesting to do a survey in order to find out how many Christians have been taught before they were dipped in the water, that Romans 6: 1-4 was something that had already happened spiritually, and that being baptised was conformation or a testimony to the fact. For me water baptism was such a stronghold in my mind I had to put it off in order to walk in the light of Romans 6:1-4, because I had been taught it was the water that caused death to sin and burial into Christ's death.
Blessings,
Tonyb

 

[bruce bunnell]

Is this scripture referring to water baptism?

yes, read the post above yours.

 

[Tonyb]

This is something that needs to be thought through carefully. Personally, I believe Peter in 1 Peter 3:21. is speaking of water baptism in a symbolic sense.
It's faith in Christ that saves not water baptism. Salvation by water baptism is a Roman Catholic teaching, not a Christian teaching.

Tonyb

 

[Faithful Son]

I agree with you TonyB

The only way to be "saved" is to believe in Jesus. Call His name, confess His name and you will be saved. Romans 10:9 -13

Read everything in context,

If you read the verses in context it says people are saved through baptism. That means they are saved from their sinful life(after repentance). They are saved through baptism, that is not symbolic. They aren't saved from going to hell though. Belief in Jesus saves you from hell.

Being baptised gives you a good conscience.

 

[bruce bunnell]

This is something that needs to be thought through carefully. Personally, I believe Peter in 1 Peter 3:21. is speaking of water baptism in a symbolic sense.
It's faith in Christ that saves not water baptism. Salvation by water baptism is a Roman Catholic teaching, not a Christian teaching.

Tonyb

the catholic church doesn't know how to baptize. baptism is a part of salvation that you leave out at your own risk. every one that came to Christ in the New Testament was baptized as soon as possible for the remission of their sins, a good conscience with God and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. if you think you can get into heaven with out any of this you are a better man then i am. i think if you won the lottery you would follow every step to pick up the prize. this is much more important, please follow the plan of salvation, don't leave anything out.

 

[Tonyb]

I don't like taking issue with people on a subject as rule, but there is probably more confused thinking on the doctrine of baptisms than on any other things in the Christian life. And this is a great pity. I can remember the many baptisms I've seen over the years as a Christian. Often the person being baptised has had little or no idea why they were being baptised, other than the Bible said you should be. This became very plainly evident, during their testimonies.

So is baptism really part of salvation? If you are talking about being baptised into Jesus' death and resurrection then it is very much a part of salvation. Being regenerated by the Holy Spirit is also part of the salvation process. But salvation in the sense of you dying and going to heaven does not require the element of water to make it effectual.

There are, and have been many, many people who have received Jesus Christ into their lives when they have been close to physical death. They did not recover enough to be baptised in water, but rather, died soon afterwards. Does that then mean they went on into a Godless eternity in hell?

Water baptism is important and Christians should be baptised in water. But only as a affirmation to what has already happened to them spiritually. It does not in and of it's self produce salvation.

Blessings,
Tonyb

 

[jiggyfly]

the catholic church doesn't know how to baptize. baptism is a part of salvation that you leave out at your own risk. every one that came to Christ in the New Testament was baptized as soon as possible for the remission of their sins, a good conscience with God and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. if you think you can get into heaven with out any of this you are a better man then i am. i think if you won the lottery you would follow every step to pick up the prize. this is much more important, please follow the plan of salvation, don't leave anything out.

So can I be correct in assuming that you are saying that you must be water baptized in order to recieve the Holy Spirit, Bruce?

What if you are in a dry desert when you believe in Jesus and you die of dehydration before you can get some where to be baptized? What if you live in the artic and the water freezes up and you die before spring thaw? Can you use a subsitute for water, like maybe tomato soup?

 

[jiggyfly]

cliffs, the New Testament Church of Christ hadn't been set up yet. the thief didn't need to be baptized. neither did Enoch when God took him. we have a guide book and a plan of salvation, its best to follow the plan.

Was Stephen water baptized? How about the one hundred twenty that were in the upper room at Pentecost?

 

[sunshine307]

So is baptism really part of salvation? If you are talking about being baptised into Jesus' death and resurrection then it is very much a part of salvation. Being regenerated by the Holy Spirit is also part of the salvation process. But salvation in the sense of you dying and going to heaven does not require the element of water to make it effectual.
There are, and have been many, many people who have received Jesus Christ into their lives when they have been close to physical death. They did not recover enough to be baptised in water, but rather, died soon afterwards. Does that then mean they went on into a Godless eternity in hell?
Water baptism is important and Christians should be baptised in water. But only as a affirmation to what has already happened to them spiritually. It does not in and of it's self produce salvation.
Blessings,
Tonyb

Very well put Tonyb. :thumbs_up This must be the least confusing post in the whole thread. :shade:

 

[CliffS]

While this is on my mind ,Bruce. I want to commend you for using a real name instead of some alteritive screen name. It is much easier to take a real name serously in discussion.


Baptism is the acceptance of the gift of salvation. Like ones signiture on a contract with God. To think that God will bestow on just anyone the gift of eternal life with out a show of faith is not in the word of God. Baptism is that showing of commitment and faith. It is not to be taken lightly. The one who desides to delay or not be baptized is posponing or refusing the gift of salvation. To that extent baptism is essential ,just as essental as your signiture on a contract before the terms of that contract will be implimented.
God may accept your word as in a deathbed confession, but you know what???? We on this side have no way of knowing that for sure. To those who wonder if those who who are on their way to be baptized and are taken by God are saved? God can read the human heart, He knows what they had on their mind and in their hearts. He and He alone can and will make that decission.
Baptism for any other reason than a commitment to sacrifice ones will to the will of God is a lie. Don't be deceived. baptism that is not accominied with commitment and living faith saves no one!!!!
Just as important as being baptized is being baptized in truth and sincerity.