Are We Instantly with the Lord When We Die?

[Butch5]

Seems that two different things are being talked about.

But also -- are you trying to suggest that it's only the Jewish people who will be in heaven / New Jerusalem? That everyone else is doomed to lake of fire and brimstone?

The Jewish people as a group Did reject the Gospel. / Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. And the Gospel unto salvation was then extended to the rest of the world -- the Gentiles. And in the future -- God Does / Will give the Jewish population another chance, During the 7 yrs. of tribulation.

Jesus Christ IS going to come back at the rapture to get the Church -- All born-again believers --ALL of them,

But -- when a believer Dies -- they are Then immediately in the presence of the Lord.


For the body and soul to Both be in the grave Waiting -- would suggest soul sleep -- and that isn't true, either. The 'person' has left their earthly 'tent' / body and their soul is with Jesus Christ.

I'm suggesting that no one goes to Heaven.

I disagree that a believer goes to be with the Lord at death. Paul states otherwise.

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (1 Cor. 15:12-18 KJV)

Note verse 18. He says of those who had died in Christ, if there is no resurrection, they had perished. He didn't say they were with Jesus, or God. He said apart from the resurrection they had perished.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

( I posted this on the wrong thread earlier )

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise.
Luke 23:43

Greetings @Dave M @Butch5
@Sue D.

What does paradise refer to here?

Blessings

 

[rag4acrown1]

Greetings in the Lord,
Psalms
He casteth the beams from His chambers upon the waters...
Acts
Stephen said "behold i see the son of God coming in the clouds... and they stoned Stephen to death, while Paul guarded their clothes.
All praise be unto God. Amen

 

[Sue D.]

Paradise refers to the place in Abrahams' bosom -- there are two 'sides' one is Paradise where the righteous dead were waiting for Jesus Christ to die on the cross to cleans them with His blood. When Jesus Christ died -- He went to hell in our place -- and then He arose and took those in Paradise back up with Him. Leaving those in the Hades / Sheol side There.

In the Luke passage -- the thief on the cross -- the one was repentative the other wasn't. So Jesus -- while dying -- was assuring the one thief that that very day -- the thief was forgiven and would see Christ in Paradise and take him back with Him. And That is a beautiful example that only heart belief and verbal acknolwedgment are the only requirement For salvation. Nothing more is needed to complete our salvation.

 

[Br. Bear]

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above ) or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) but what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Romans 10:6-15