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Are We Instantly with the Lord When We Die?

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Loyal
When we die we go to be with Christ, which is wonderful, but we are incomplete, in a pre-resurrected state, anticipating Christ's return to earth, and our resurrections. The place we'll live forever will be where God comes down to dwell with us, on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the term "intermediate" when it is used of Heaven. It does not at all mean that we aren't with God. God is exactly who we are with, which is why it is called Heaven. As I emphasize in the book, we DO immediately go to the presence of God when we die. Scripture is emphatic on this point, which is why I quote numbers of passages indicating it. For instance I say the following in the book:

Jesus told the dying thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). The apostle Paul said that to die was to be with Christ (Philippians 1:23), and to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). After their deaths, martyrs are pictured in Heaven, crying out to God to bring justice on Earth (Revelation 6:9-11).

Going to the "Intermediate Heaven" when we die doesn't mean we won't be with the Lord—rather, Heaven IS by definition the place where God dwells, and where we dwell with Him. The point of theologians using the term "intermediate" is that Heaven's current location isn't permanent, and it will be changed. We will be with Him in a different place than in the eternal state. In other words, the Heaven we go to when we die (to be with Jesus) is not the New Earth. But God promises we will come down with Him from the present Heaven to dwell forever with Him on the New Earth—which will be the center of the eternal Heaven. Jesus will come down from the present Heaven to dwell on the New Earth forever—we will be with Him for a time in the present (intermediate) Heaven, and we be with Him forever in the eternal Heaven.


 
Active
Are We Instantly with the Lord When We Die?
Of course! I cannot believe this is even a discussion.

A Christian is a new creation 2 Cor 5:17. We have entered eternal life and will never perish John 10:28. We are pilgrims on earth 1 Pet 2:11.

God is to us a Father John 1:12. One who showed / gave the greatest gift / act of love possible John 3:16, John 15:13.

It should be painfully obvious that God is eager to be with us and that once we have served our purpose for Him on earth as His ambassadors 2 Cor 5:20 we go to be with Him.
 
Member
When we die we go to be with Christ, which is wonderful, but we are incomplete, in a pre-resurrected state, anticipating Christ's return to earth, and our resurrections. The place we'll live forever will be where God comes down to dwell with us, on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the term "intermediate" when it is used of Heaven. It does not at all mean that we aren't with God. God is exactly who we are with, which is why it is called Heaven. As I emphasize in the book, we DO immediately go to the presence of God when we die. Scripture is emphatic on this point, which is why I quote numbers of passages indicating it. For instance I say the following in the book:

Jesus told the dying thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). The apostle Paul said that to die was to be with Christ (Philippians 1:23), and to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). After their deaths, martyrs are pictured in Heaven, crying out to God to bring justice on Earth (Revelation 6:9-11).

Going to the "Intermediate Heaven" when we die doesn't mean we won't be with the Lord—rather, Heaven IS by definition the place where God dwells, and where we dwell with Him. The point of theologians using the term "intermediate" is that Heaven's current location isn't permanent, and it will be changed. We will be with Him in a different place than in the eternal state. In other words, the Heaven we go to when we die (to be with Jesus) is not the New Earth. But God promises we will come down with Him from the present Heaven to dwell forever with Him on the New Earth—which will be the center of the eternal Heaven. Jesus will come down from the present Heaven to dwell on the New Earth forever—we will be with Him for a time in the present (intermediate) Heaven, and we be with Him forever in the eternal Heaven.


I believe you're misunderstanding these passages. Can you tell me what you believe it is that goes into this intermediate Heaven?
 
Loyal
I believe you're misunderstanding these passages. Can you tell me what you believe it is that goes into this intermediate Heaven?
I certainly do not it all, so I can appreciate what you are saying, can we take a quick moment and give glory and honor to our Lord and savior Jesus because he is what unites us all as brothers and sister of Christ :). Here is a great description in scripture that jumped out at me this morning during my time in the word, I thought that maybe it would help you understand where I am coming from perhaps.

John 14 -1,..6
In My Father’s House Are Many Rooms

1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God;a believe in Me as well.

2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you thatb I am going away to prepare a place for you? ( fatheres house =heaven ,,,,,, place for you = you will be in heaven)


3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. (you may be where I am = heaven) ( we know he is talking about after his death on the cross)

4You know the way to the place where I am going.”cThe Way, the Truth, and the Life (the way is to beleive in Jesus, the place he is going is heaven that wehar he is now with the father, that whear his father house is, thats wear we go)

5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?” (they still did not understand he was talking about his death on the cross and his rising again and going to heaven)

6Jesus answered, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
(comes to the father who is in heaven, we do it through Jesus)

7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.” (Jesus and the father are one, proves Jesus is God in the flesh, yet God is also spirit)

ok so here Jesus is telling his Deciplies once they die he will come back himself and get them (there spirit) and will bring them to heaven because thats where his fathers house is, and they have a place there that Jesus has prepared for them.
 
Member
I certainly do not it all, so I can appreciate what you are saying, can we take a quick moment and give glory and honor to our Lord and savior Jesus because he is what unites us all as brothers and sister of Christ :). Here is a great description in scripture that jumped out at me this morning during my time in the word, I thought that maybe it would help you understand where I am coming from perhaps.

John 14 -1,..6
In My Father’s House Are Many Rooms

1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God;a believe in Me as well.

2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you thatb I am going away to prepare a place for you? ( fatheres house =heaven ,,,,,, place for you = you will be in heaven)


3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am. (you may be where I am = heaven) ( we know he is talking about after his death on the cross)

4You know the way to the place where I am going.”cThe Way, the Truth, and the Life (the way is to beleive in Jesus, the place he is going is heaven that wehar he is now with the father, that whear his father house is, thats wear we go)

5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?” (they still did not understand he was talking about his death on the cross and his rising again and going to heaven)

6Jesus answered, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
(comes to the father who is in heaven, we do it through Jesus)

7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.” (Jesus and the father are one, proves Jesus is God in the flesh, yet God is also spirit)

ok so here Jesus is telling his Deciplies once they die he will come back himself and get them (there spirit) and will bring them to heaven because thats where his fathers house is, and they have a place there that Jesus has prepared for them.
Hi Dave,

Why do you believer, "My Father's house" is Heaven?

In verse 3 Jesus said He would come back so that they could be with Him. That seems to indicate that they aren't going where He went. Actually, in chapter 13 He told them they couldn't go where he was going.
 
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I'm not Dave -- however -- I'd like to put in my 2 cents worth -- Acts 1:9 - 11 vs 9 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up , and a cloud received Him out of their sight. vs 11 two men in white apparel (angels)
said "Men of Galilee , why do you stand gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

That is how we know that 'My Father's house' is in heaven.
 
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I'm not Dave -- however -- I'd like to put in my 2 cents worth -- Acts 1:9 - 11 vs 9 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up , and a cloud received Him out of their sight. vs 11 two men in white apparel (angels)
said "Men of Galilee , why do you stand gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

That is how we know that 'My Father's house' is in heaven.
If we search the Scriptures, nowhere do we find Heaven being referred to as "My Father's House". Rather we find that Jesus used that phrase of the temple.
 
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John 14: 1 -6 "Let not your heart be troubles; you believe in God, believe also in Me. vs 2 In My Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ,,,,,,,,, vs 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

In Acts 1;11 "who was taken up into heaven....."
 
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John 14: 1 -6 "Let not your heart be troubles; you believe in God, believe also in Me. vs 2 In My Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ,,,,,,,,, vs 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

In Acts 1;11 "who was taken up into heaven....."
But just prior to the passage you quoted Jesus told them they couldn't go. But, even if they could go, that doesn't mean anyone else would go.
 
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And, the temple is used to refer to the house of God And to the born-again believers' heart / body being the temple of the Holy Spirit.
 
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If we search the Scriptures, nowhere do we find Heaven being referred to as "My Father's House". Rather we find that Jesus used that phrase of the temple.

You brought up "the temple" I'm simply bringing up other uses of that term "temple".
 
Loyal
But just prior to the passage you quoted Jesus told them they couldn't go.
they could not go yet is because they were still in there earthly tents, and he was talking about his departure from the earth.

did you know realize this???
 
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Could we get back to the subject at hand :)
Sure, but it seems to me that whether one goes to Heaven bears on the topic at hand
they could not go yet is because they were still in there earthly tents, and he was talking about his departure from the earth.

did you know realize this???
But, He didn't say they couldn't go yet. He said they couldn't go. Were the Jews who rejected Jesus going to Heaven too? Because Jesus said, "as I said unto the Jews". That was the Jewish leadership that rejected Him. He said the something to them as He said to the apostles. But, we're not left to wonder. Jesus told them that He would come back so that they could be with Him.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (Jn. 14:3 KJV)

Notice here that He is coming back so that they can be with Him. In order for them to be with Him again, they're not going to Him, He's coming back to them.
 
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Seems that two different things are being talked about.

But also -- are you trying to suggest that it's only the Jewish people who will be in heaven / New Jerusalem? That everyone else is doomed to lake of fire and brimstone?

The Jewish people as a group Did reject the Gospel. / Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. And the Gospel unto salvation was then extended to the rest of the world -- the Gentiles. And in the future -- God Does / Will give the Jewish population another chance, During the 7 yrs. of tribulation.

Jesus Christ IS going to come back at the rapture to get the Church -- All born-again believers --ALL of them,

But -- when a believer Dies -- they are Then immediately in the presence of the Lord.


For the body and soul to Both be in the grave Waiting -- would suggest soul sleep -- and that isn't true, either. The 'person' has left their earthly 'tent' / body and their soul is with Jesus Christ.
 
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