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Loyal Member
My God is an all consuming fire so if we will ever be with him we will all burn for eternity.
Is Jude 1:13 figurative or literal?Or are these men tortured in two different places forever?At what point would these men (who would certainly not be found in the Lamb's book of life) switch eternal domiciles.

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Either Gods will is figurative and symbolic or "the lake of fire" and "the blackness of darkness" is.I don't want to be found opposing God's will.

1 Timothy 2:3-6:
3-For this
is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4-Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6-Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If I deny he was a ransom for all then I oppose the finished work of Christ which is anti-Christ.I do not believe for a minute that I cannot err,but I would rather err on the "good news" end than be found opposing God and his redemptive gift to all mankind through Jesus.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God wants me to love my enemies and it was always my assumption I was called to be like Jesus who asked his Father to forgive his tormentors because they did not know what they were doing.It's not easy trying to understand what to take figuratively and literally.However when a literal translation causes conflict with other scripture and a figurative translation fits all scripture then I usually go with the figurative.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
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New Member
Again ThisCrossHurts.

I agree with every point you make, it is not possible to debate these points as they are pure scripture, direct from God.

Yet, you will have to reconcile Revelations 20:10-11 (NKJV)

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This passage does not appear to be figurative. This passage, especially the high lighted line seems literal.
New Member
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Might just mean they mind is in darkness Not knowing the truth !

Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
New Member
To believe and follow the Word of God, are we not to believe that:
1. Our Father in Heaven desires for us to live and NEVER die?

2. We are to re-identify ourselves (be born again with a renewed mind) according to the conscious awareness of our eternal lives that reside in life as a spirit, not flesh?

3. We are to think and speak according to the nature of our life as a spirit with God’s power operating through us, as oppose to living solely as a powerless being of the flesh?

4. We are to grow in understanding of our spiritual being which is made after the image of God?

5. We are to believe that, death is an enemy, the law of the wise is a fountain of Life, to depart from the snares of death, and the way of life is above to the wise, that we may depart from hell beneath?

6. The Bible teaches us to be mindful of what we say because words have power and can lead to our death because death and life are in the power of the tongue, by our words we are either justified or condemned, even if we say ‘Thou fool’, we are in danger of hell fire, and those who hate their brother without cause, have no eternal life in them, and anger management is required to cross over into the promised land, (as the story of Moses portrays)?

7. We are given to do the works of Christ, and thus are given to give commands such as “Winds be calm” whenever the need arises, like Christ addressed the winds and sea during a storm?

Loyal Member
spirit1st and cranquar:love your posts,very edifying-thank you.

And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I see conflict because we know day and night are from this present age.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

At this point the old earth and heaven are passed away.
The fire of God is eternal,as is his light.
I would have to believe he kept some part of the old order to keep this day/night thing going.

The word "forever" is translated from aión=Strong's 165:
an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book.

How would one go about keeping the prophecies in this book?
If the book is figurative I know how everyone for the last 2000 years could keep them.Remember the Kingdom of heaven is within us.We are no longer a day/night walker.

If it is literal then only a tiny fraction of Christians at the end would have to figure out how to KEEP events that are out of their hands.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

The term "time is near" sounds literal but if it was then the apostle was wrong.
How would the words of this prophecy bless someone 500,1000,1500 years ago?I had a beast mindset to overthrow with the brightness of his coming.I had a false prophet mindset also.It made God look cruel.
If I can help it they will stay in that fire alongside everything that's not of God's will.
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New Member
here is another question, can none believers be raised from the dead? i know believers can but..... whos faith are you working with yours or the person you are praying for.
Miracles show the power of God. Jesus healed many and belief in His power seemed to be the key.

Mat 8:5-7 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, (6) And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. (7) And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him....
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

There is no mention of the servants faith, so the one petitioning for the miracle is the one required to have faith.

I assume this would apply to raising the dead.
New Member
My mother killed her self years ago .I prayed for her and she came back

My son was dropped when He was born and they worked on Him a long time then gave up! I prayed for him and His Spirit returned to His body !

My daughters kitty died and we both laid hands on it and prayed for it and it came back!

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I do not think i have had great faith!
but i guess? I must have had child like faith at times?

God is NO respecter of persons? It was never personal !

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Just because we might have had some miracles in our LIFE TIME ! , does not make us more!
None are greater or less in his body! He alone is the head and His Spirit does the miracles!

When my daughters kitty died ! I prayed under my breathe , that GOD would heal the kitty so she would have Faith in HIM to do miracles in her life! she was so happy and told her friends! They mocked her and laughed at her and now she refuses to tell anyone!
New Member
You understand ? when JESUS walked in the flesh ,before dying! All the miracles HE did was on unsaved people! None were Born -again til He died for our sins!

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Loyal Member
Hi 4wheelpeel please read for yourself.Rev 20:11-15 here you see, it did not say believers or non believers.ALL both small and great. There is not a one of us,believer or non believer that will not stand before our Jesus.

To me,Jesus has 2 sides. One LOVE, his very nature!! Full of both grace and mercy. The other side of Jesus,is the side I do not want him to be on when I go before him!! Fair and just! example. If you give 100 percent to God and make it to heaven,and I give 50 percent, and I make it to heaven,he is cheating on you!! That is not fair or just is it?

Sure there is security in our loving Jesus,sure we are saved by grace, not by works!! I know this,the idea of what I am saying to you is this.( Rev 3:16) How can Jesus use us,if we do not give our whole self to him? If you were to put a puzzle together,could you do this if you were missing pieces from it? The point is that Jesus wants us to be complete in him.

That is our goal in running the race. To run till we finish!( 1 Cor 9:23-27!!) The more of Jesus we have, the less flesh we have to be judged in. less is sometimes better. blessing
New Member
To 4wheelpeel

Here’s a verse that may apply to your query regarding if believers will be raised from the dead.

John 5:25 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Thus, they that hear shall live.

Yet we can also consider the scriptures Hebrews 11:33-35. “Who through faith subdued kingdoms…women received their dead to life again; and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection.”

New Member
I do not put my Faith in after hells fire!
Today is the day of Salvation! But the judgment day is for a reason?
if it was so simple that all in hell go into the lake of Fire? Then the bible would say that and there would be No reason for the judgment day!

e are Never judged in the eternal , We Do the judging with our LORD! The New creature He makes us [Our spirit] CANNOT SIN! It not under the law of Moses! But our flesh body can sure suffer for SIN!
But even then , we can repent and be spared and if we sin in our flesh minds and do not repent and get a sickness , then He dose provide healing for us!

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Not all sickness comes from us personally sinning!

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Very simple ?If we LOVE HIM we will be trying Hard not to Sin!
We cannot trick HIM!

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things

We are Not going to remember any of this evil junk here on earth!

We [our Spirit] Will only remember the things we did out of pure LOVE!
If we did things for other reasons ? Then they will not be counted!

We do All things as unto the LORD! Then our reasons are Good and counted!

The reason we do things is what is going to count!

I ask the LORD ca good while back! Lord how is our flesh mind and body dies and rots away! all the thoughts we had in our flesh mind is then gone forever more! What thoughts are taken with our Spirits mind?
He said ? Everything we did out of pure Love goes with our spirits mind! That is why we remember our DADS and MOMS !

That the way He wipes all our tears away! We do not remember the mistakes we made in this mind and body!

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Thank YOU LORD JESUS!Be very glad not to remember my mistakes!
Bought tears to my eyes thinking about , How wonderful HE is to US!

We have the very same Holy Spirit our LORD has! He was without a Doubt in my mind !A living Example for All of His Holy children! What He did ? We can! personally i have not lived up to what He Did as My example! Had a few miracles , But Far less than even the Disciples had , i am sure ! certainly Not as MY LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

For this i am ashamed! I know My LORD has expected More out of me! Still be glad HE wipes those tears away!

We going to get rewards ,when we stand before Our LOVING FATHER GOD!
We look for things we can be proud of our kids for! How much more does our Father LOVE US!

We do not normally look at our kids and remind them of the things they did wrong ! Our Father loves Us more and never does that!
We would be so sad in New Jerusalem!

Heaven would not be a place of JOY!Which it Is!

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth:wink:
Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Php 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

We can be mighty warriors for the LORD! Yet be humble and meek !Yet not weak in HIM!
Our bodies Do not have to be Powerful ! He is our Power! We lean on HIM for the victory! Thank YOU LORD JESUS! He has Declared each of us His ministers and More than conquerors!
Men and Women are EQUAL in His body!

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds:wink:

Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

The Holy Spirit Brings GODS living Words into being ! In the mighty name of JESUS CHRIST! It serious and its Always For His glory and Honor! sorry it so long!
anybody have an answer for me?
"When the Son Of Man comes in His final glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." (Mt 25:31-32).

I believe that the resurrection of all the nations described here is the same resurrection that Paul refers to in 1 Thess 4:13-18, though Paul only refers to those who are saved.

New Member
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

my thought is ?It not the elect!We are will Him judging!

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
New Member
thanks for all the responses, a non believer died awile back but my faith has grown alot since then and it got me thinkin, if some one i knew died but didnt believe in Jesus and i prayed for God to raise them from the dead if he would actually do it because of there faith or lack of.

thank you, you answered my question .
New Member
I do not know that answer? But I have prayed for a man that died ! Because God told me to write the guy a letter and tell Him He was not right with the LORD! And was going to die soon! I never wrote the letter 1 but later after he died i prayed for him!

also i been really dead once and was not born again! I pray to Jesus and ask him to give me another chance, i told Him i would change! He gave me another chance and I was born again after a short time!
Loyal Member
thanks for all the responses, a non believer died awile back but my faith has grown alot since then and it got me thinkin, if some one i knew died but didnt believe in Jesus and i prayed for God to raise them from the dead if he would actually do it because of there faith or lack of.
Technically you would be doing it with the finger of God.The faith of the dead would not be a factor.

John 14:12 "I can guarantee this truth: Those who believe in me will do the things that I am doing. They will do even greater things because I am going to the Father.

Jesus did everything with the authority(finger) given him by the Father.
He says we can if we believe.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

It's about the father being glorified through the son.
You are part of a "son" company called the bride of Christ.

I have not personally done this though.
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