A Cult of self-Preservation

[abigya]

A CULT OF SELF-PRESERVATION

by Chip Brogden

“And Jeroboam said in his heart, ‘Now the kingdom may return to the house of David: if these people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the Lord at Jerusalem, then the heart of this people will turn back to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah, and they will kill me and go back to Rehoboam king of Judah’” (I Kings 12:26,27).

So here is Jeroboam, the rebel king of Israel. He has control of ten tribes. He has more land and more people than Judah. Even so, he is troubled. What troubles him? There is the issue of people being commanded by God to go up to Jerusalem to worship. Jeroboam correctly surmised that once the people went up to Jerusalem to worship they would be more inclined to live there, and his kingdom would be diminished.

I would suggest that today God is calling on us to come up to Jerusalem and worship – that is, to worship Him in Spirit and Truth (cf. John 4). The Father seeks those true worshippers who do not think of geographical places of worship, but a Spirit-and-Truth place of worship: a spiritual place, a place of the heart. That is what it means for us to “go up to Jerusalem”. This Jerusalem is from above, it is from the heavens; we have to “go up” to it because it exists on a higher level, a greater dimension. It is a spiritual place. We read about it in the Book of Revelation, coming down from heaven, filled with the glory of God and the presence of the Lamb.

Many are responding to this call to go “up to Jerusalem” and out of Babylon, out of Churchianity, out of Organized Religion. As a result, all the Jeroboams of this world are in a state of consternation! How can we prevent this mass exodus of people from leaving our churches? Jeroboam’s concern is not for the people. His concern is not for the Lord, or for what the Lord requires. Jeroboam’s concern is only for self-preservation: the safeguarding of his leadership, the continuance of his kingdom, the prolongation of his own life.

The solution he came up with was quite resourceful. He created what I am calling “A CONVENIENT CULT.” This convenient cult has three characteristics: 1) a convenient place; 2) a convenient priesthood; and 3) a convenient feast to bind the worshippers together.






.

 

[Trishann]

Yes definitely we have to worship God in Spirit and Truth in our hearts.
But if the Word of God is not preached how will one know. One way to preach the Word of God is by church service, its not the only way, but this is one way to do .

And you are definitely right that places like this should bring you closer to God and teach you to learn how to have a relationship with Jesus.

Isn't beautiful to worship God in Spirit and Truth Abigya. If for some reason we can't go to church or have fellowship with one another that one can still worship God.

 

[Boanerges]

God always has a remnant people and it is through this remnant He is building His church.
Those who are not in the flow of the River of God have become oxbow or false rivers. They look the same but have no fresh flowing waters to give life and thus they eventually die.
But those who are in the flow of God, those who move with the cloud by day and the pillar by night realize that God has called them to both death to self and life in Christ.
Judgment does indeed began in the house of God. His fire both consumes, burns away sin and refines burning away the dross of self.
The results are some churches fade and others see revival.
Each of the major denominations has had it's roots in Holy Ghost fire only to see that fire replaced by traditions of men and a religion of obligation.
Oh that God's people would once again burn with the fire of His love.

 

[abigya]

Yes definitely we have to worship God in Spirit and Truth in our hearts.
But if the Word of God is not preached how will one know. One way to preach the Word of God is by church service, its not the only way, but this is one way to do .

And you are definitely right that places like this should bring you closer to God and teach you to learn how to have a relationship with Jesus.

Isn't beautiful to worship God in Spirit and Truth Abigya. If for some reason we can't go to church or have fellowship with one another that one can still worship God.

If you are upto defending the religious Church organization and leaders, like you did here

http://www.talkjesus.com/polls/26300-church.html

I am afraid I am gone have to disagree with you…. I have noted the same thing with your replies at this thread too

http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/29950-i-will-not-give-my-glory-another-isa-48-11-a.html

If for some reason we can't go to church or have fellowship with one another that one can still worship God.

I don’t hold to doctrine such as this, worship in truth and spirit and being a member of religious church organization is a different thing.






.

 

[Trishann]

Hey Abigya you have that choice and I just really sharing my heart. The truth is the gospel of Christ Jesus and if the Church is preaching the truth, yes I would have to say go for it.

Many people only hear about Jesus through a Church, and then because they heard the Truth, they knew they were loved by God. Yes there are more ways to do this, even on one to one, but the thing is the "Message" is getting out.

 

[abigya]

God always has a remnant people and it is through this remnant He is building His church.

Those who are not in the flow of the River of God have become oxbow or false rivers. They look the same but have no fresh flowing waters to give life and thus they eventually die.

But those who are in the flow of God, those who move with the cloud by day and the pillar by night realize that God has called them to both death to self and life in Christ.

Judgment does indeed began in the house of God. His fire both consumes, burns away sin and refines burning away the dross of self.
The results are some churches fade and others see revival.

Each of the major denominations has had it's roots in Holy Ghost fire only to see that fire replaced by traditions of men and a religion of obligation.

Oh that God's people would once again burn with the fire of His love.

like what you said here Boanerges,

Mr 7:8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
Mr 7:9 Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.



.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I understand the disaffection with the institutional church of today. However, I don't think that God wants people to bail out of her en masse. Jesus longed to reach the leaders of the institutional church of that day through members who had come into a saving relationship with Him (see Mt 8:4;Lk 17:14) and I think that's still true today. God is taking some Christ-followers out of the old line denominations but others are being told to remain in them. The Christ-follower's job is simple: Shine the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the lost wherever they are - inside the institutional church or outside it.

SLE

 

[abigya]

quite the opposit would have served for the better of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, the system has become a means to gloryfy SELF.

And adding number of members and growing instituations dose not count, walking in Spirit and truth dose count in the Kingdom of God.







.

 

[Trishann]

Abigya, I did not say adding to the church is what the issue is about; but speaking the truth that others may hear.

 

[abigya]

The truth is the gospel of Christ Jesus and if the Church is preaching the truth, yes I would have to say go for it.

I did not say adding to the church is what the issue is about; but speaking the truth that others may hear.

I am pointing out, to help see what kind of Gospel is being preached.

Is that the gospel making people believe they are saved just because they don’t miss the Church programs? It would have been great to ask what the Fathers heart is saying....

Well any way, I see our differences and we are never to agree






.

 

[christin]

Intimacy with Jesus is more important than anthing. We were created to fellowship with Him.

 

[jiggyfly]

Intimacy with Jesus is more important than anthing. We were created to fellowship with Him.

Oh Hallelujah! Christin your post stirs me up. The love of God is the most powerful force that exists. He so much wants us to experience His love that He is pouring it out beyond measure.

 

[Diamondlight]

I understand the disaffection with the institutional church of today. However, I don't think that God wants people to bail out of her en masse. Jesus longed to reach the leaders of the institutional church of that day through members who had come into a saving relationship with Him (see Mt 8:4;Lk 17:14) and I think that's still true today. God is taking some Christ-followers out of the old line denominations but others are being told to remain in them. The Christ-follower's job is simple: Shine the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the lost wherever they are - inside the institutional church or outside it.

SLE

Very interesting point! I'm not sure how i feel about it. My initial response would be to make a distinction between lost (Luke 19:10)and those who have rejected (Hebrews 10:26). Thought provoking!

 

[Trishann]

Yes Abigya the church might have numbers and programs, this is a place to learn. But I know this is not the reason why we have church, it is to preach the Gospel and that people can hear the Gospel, and have a personal relationship with our Lord.

Abigya I am not hear to debate with you about church. I don't know the reason why you feel strongly against the church. I just would hate to see churches, home studies, getting together, one on one spreading the gospel to people become illegal. As long as we have these things why not use it to spread the "Word of God" to those that need to hear.

Abigya I am not against you sister, praise God, that you do have a relationship with Jesus and that you love him.

 

[Trishann]

Intimacy with Jesus is more important than anthing. We were created to fellowship with Him.

Amen Christin, and since we do have this relationship with Jesus, why not spread it with others so they can know they can have a relationship with Jesus too.

 

[Trishann]

Oh Hallelujah! Christin your post stirs me up. The love of God is the most powerful force that exists. He so much wants us to experience His love that He is pouring it out beyond measure.

Brother you know I believe this too, you know my heart.

 

[abigya]

Yes Abigya the church might have numbers and programs, this is a place to learn. But I know this is not the reason why we have church, it is to preach the Gospel and that people can hear the Gospel, and have a personal relationship with our Lord.

Abigya I am not hear to debate with you about church. I don't know the reason why you feel strongly against the church. I just would hate to see churches, home studies, getting together, one on one spreading the gospel to people become illegal. As long as we have these things why not use it to spread the "Word of God" to those that need to hear.

Abigya I am not against you sister, praise God, that you do have a relationship with Jesus and that you love him.

Hi Trishann, would you go back and reread the OP and all the replays?

 

[Trishann]

Abigya, I came here to understand why there is a gap in generation that oppose the church. I know debates can go on on on with fighting and hatred towards one another.

Yes I made points about the church and shared my heart, so that I can understand where you are coming from, and share your heart too. Just wonder where it went so wrong.

I noticed Jiggyfly pointed out on an another post that he is against paying Pastors for their services they do in the church. Or there other reasons like this that is causing people to oppose the church?

I know something went so wrong, and I am trying to understand why. Debates always seems to make a fight but I was hoping by sharing each other heart that this won't happen, but maybe it just goes the same way into a debate. Don't know.

 

[jiggyfly]

Abigya, I came here to understand why there is a gap in generation that oppose the church. I know debates can go on on on with fighting and hatred towards one another.

Yes I made points about the church and shared my heart, so that I can understand where you are coming from, and share your heart too. Just wonder where it went so wrong.

I noticed Jiggyfly pointed out on an another post that he is against paying Pastors for their services they do in the church. Or there other reasons like this that is causing people to oppose the church?

I know something went so wrong, and I am trying to understand why. Debates always seems to make a fight but I was hoping by sharing each other heart that this won't happen, but maybe it just goes the same way into a debate. Don't know.

I think you may be a little confused about what I think on this topic. In case I wasn't clear in the other thread let me make it clear now.
I am against people getting a salary for pastoring yes but not against paying them an honorarium.

 

[Trishann]

Jigglyfly, Correct me if I am wrong what you are saying.

What I am understanding, "You are saying that you believe in pastoring in a church IF they don't get a salary but honorarium."