1 John Epistles - Discussion - Are we SINNERS when Saved?

[Sue D.]

So I ask You -- have You, personally committed Any sin of any kind since Your salvation. Any kind of evil thought / emotion / never speed / never get impatient with a slow person in front of you.

Do you get impatient with me, here on Forum. ?

Because I know that I have sinned since My salvation.

Look back at my post # 73.

 

[David1954]

Take a look at 1 John 1:8 " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

That is God's Word talking.

Everyone who has sinned, "has sin."

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Everyone has sin. But, "we know that whosoever is born of God does not sin." (John 5:18.)

 

[Sue D.]

So -- you're saying that in This lifetime -- a person can live in sinless perfection.

So everyone Has sin , but does not sin. We still have the Propensity For sinning. But that we simply Won't.

Well -- there apparently are born-again believers who Do sin -- so there is another explanation. Maybe a passage being lifted out of it's intended context?

John 5:18 // there's Also a 1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him "

Well -- in the process of living --we do know that born-again believers Do sin -- so , there is some other explanation involved. And it's Probably in the fact that satan is alive and active and we Do cave into temptation once in a while. We Do have the Holy Spirit living in us to guide us.

I'm Not saying that any Scripture is wrong. Just that we apparently need to look a little deeper into explanations.

 

[Sue D.]

I Am curious , though. Are you suggesting that you, personally have never committed even a 'little' sin? You haven't responded to that. No speeding, no bad thoughts towards another person? And no hint of pridefulness because you feel that you are sinless? That in spite Of your sin nature , you've never given into any of that?

 

[David1954]

Everyone born in the world is controlled by sin. In a person's becoming born of God, sin's power over him is broken. But what if I choose to continue to set my desire on wealth and possessions even though sin can't make me do it anymore?

Catholics and Protestants will say I am sinning, because the Law says not to do that. But I died to the Law when I was baptized into Christ. That whole business (of sin having power over me by means of the Law) is the very thing Jesus came and died so I could escape.

Nevertheless, if what I choose to do with my freedom, is pursue the desires the world can satisfy, instead of the desires the Spirit can satisfy, freedom was wasted on me.

 

[Sue D.]

We are no longer a Slave to sin -- we are no longer having to be under bondage of it.

It's the Love of money that causes problems.

It's the sin Nature in a person that causes us To sin.

The Holy Spirit's dwelling in us is what causes our change in attitudes / behavior,

You comment that the RCC and Protestants would say that you're sinning because the Law says not to do 'something'. The Protestant denominations are Not the RCC. The Protestant denominations were Protesting the teachings of the RCC.

What denomination do you associate / identify with.

The Law -- Ten Commandments were given as a guideline -- and to show us that we cannot keep all of them all the time. We needed a Savior.

the shed blood of Jesus on the cross negated the Law. In place Of the Law and Prophets -- we are told to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind. And then to love our neighbor.

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior -- most of the time a person is able to be publically baptised by immersion. That activity shows other people in the church / community of the decision that has already been made in your heart. To accept Him and deciding to follow Jesus Christ. And that person is acknowledging that the blood of Christ shed for us is all that's needed For our salvation -- no works on our part is needed.

A person doesn't loose their old nature -- they Gain their new life in Christ.

 

[Dave M]

if you get mad for a split second at someone, say they just smashed your car and totaled it, and you get mad at them, that is a sin, you just committed murder, the holly standard of perfection is far greater then you realize. we are being sanctified now and do not commit sin knowingly or willfully (I hope anyways), but that does not mean we dont sin.

 

[David1954]

Catholics and Protestants make a living taking money from people while teaching them that true believers sin.

I agree with Sue D. If they Bible says they don't sin, and you're not seeing it, look deeper.

 

[Sue D.]

@ David -- I don't know What church group you belong to , but you certainly do have a poor attitude towards Protestants.

No one 'takes' money from Anyone. The thing about being a cheerful giver. I do help support the church I go to monitarily. Honestly -- I'd be Far more concerned about what a church teaches about salvation.

I was meaning that there are other passages on that same subject that teach somewhat differently. I'm Not suggesting that Real truth is found by digging deeper.

that which Dave M. said is true. One commandments is broken and a person is guilty of All of it.

So -- if you are , in fact, suggesting that since you've been a born-again believer that you've never sinned at all. Then you are deceiving yourself.

 

[David1954]

You don't understand 1 John, so you just say it's not true, because you prefer the doctrines of men.

 

[Hekuran]

The word translated 'sin' in both hebrew and greek has the sense of missing the mark. Think of an arrow failing to reach its target. There are other words - transgression, iniquity - that have stronger sense of rebelling against Gods will or deliberately going astray.

When you see the word 'sin', then, Think 'failings' or 'falling short'.

Have any of us hit the mark of God's standard consistently today?

 

[David1954]

It has more than one sense.

 

[Hekuran]

It has more than one sense.

? Enlighten us.

 

[David1954]

Definition

equivalent to 264 to be without a share in to miss the mark to err, be mistaken to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many

 

[Hekuran]

That's a formal definition that matches what I said earlier. What is your point?

 

[David1954]

Matches what you said earlier? I'm lost. Say what you said earlier, given the formal definition.

 

[Hekuran]

Missing the mark.

 

[David1954]

No one who is born of God sins. He cannot sin. If anyone sees his brother sin ... we know that no one who is born of God sins. (1 John.)

 

[Sue D.]

@ David --- have You personally missed the mark? I know I have.

Look again at 1 John 1:7 - 10

 

[David1954]

How could I possibly. Have you ever read the Bible?