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1 John Epistles - Discussion - Are we SINNERS when Saved?

Loyal
1 John 1:7 (NKJV)
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


These things he makes clear before saying...

1 John 1:8 (NKJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we are without sin in verse 7 why then would we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from any sin?

Verse 7 does not mean we are without sin, it means if we "walk in the light" that we have then the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from all other sins we do not know of.
 
Loyal
In Christ, we are without sin as there is no darkness in God. In the flesh, we are becoming Holy by the work of the Holy Spirit using the word of God as the cleansing agent.

Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In other words, we the Church are growing into the man we already are in Christ!
 
Active
If I am still a sinner after what Jesus did for me,then I am saying his blood was not enough! We have faults yes,but we are called saints now, not sinners.(1 Cor 1:2)
 
Loyal
We ARE saints because we've accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

We're sinners who've been saved by grace.

Aren't 'faults' really just a nice way of saying 'sins'?!
 
Loyal
We ARE saints because we've accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

We're sinners who've been saved by grace.

Aren't 'faults' really just a nice way of saying 'sins'?!
Yes, and sin is just a religious word for fail.

In John's epistles, he presents just two kinds of people

'Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil'

John's purpose is not to say that no one who does not know Christ does good (they do). And he's not trying to say that we who belong to Christ are perfect (we're not).

The message is that we must be absolutely uncompromising in dealing with sin, and living in righteousness. For a Child of God, there's no possibility of tolerating sin.

I don't think he's talking about imputed righteousness or anything like that. He wants us to live godly lives here and now.
 
Loyal
Yes, we Are to be living as Godly a life as possible 'right now'. But we're still human being in a sinful world. We Will be 'messing up ' once in a while. And it Is 'sinning'. "Sin" is Not a popular word.

There ARE beliefs / doctrines that are Utmost of importance. No budging done.
 
Loyal
1 John 1:7 (NKJV)
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we are without sin in verse 7 why then would we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from any sin?

Verse 7 does not mean we are without sin, it means if we "walk in the light" that we have then the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from all other sins we do not know of.


The blood of Christ cleanses us from ALL sin.

At salvation our slate is wiped clean, sins remembered no more.

After salvation we are no longer sinners, we no longer belong to sin, the world and the devil, we are Christ's, He paid the price for our sins. From the point of salvation we are to 'practice righteousness'. Practice meaning we are to aim to be righteous, we are not perfect, He knows we will sin, but as we grow in faith we sin less, because we are 'practicing righteousness'. We are saints not sinners, but we are not sinning saints, we are saints practicing righteousness, clothed in righteous, as you say brother, walking in the light. We are In Christ Jesus, not in the world with sin and the devil.
 
Loyal
If I am still a sinner after what Jesus did for me, then I am saying his blood was not enough! We have faults yes, but we are called saints now, not sinners.(1 Cor 1:2)


Agreed bother, we are saints, practicing righteousness. Practicing meaning we will not always get things right, we will be tempted, but if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we realise we have sinned and repent, we practice to become perfect, but will never be perfect whist in the flesh, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, just not as weak as it was. God takes us as we are sinners, we become saints, we practice righteousness, He is preparing us for heaven. PTL.
 
Loyal
We ARE saints because we've accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

We're sinners who've been saved by grace.

Aren't 'faults' really just a nice way of saying 'sins'?!


Greetings Sue

We are saints because we repented and accepted Jesus as our Saviour. He accepted us as wee are, sinners, to the point of salvation.

We were saved by grace through faith, we no longer belong to the world, and the devil, as sinners, we belong to God, through Jesus, being made righteous, so we practice righteousness, we no longer practice sin. We moved camps! We crossed over from sin to righteousness.

When we repented and accepted Christ we realised we were sinners, but we like little children we don't know at that stage what all sins are, we are to learn through The Word, that is why we have to 'practice righteousness' always aiming to do God's will, always aiming not to sin and to avoid sin.

I feel, Paul was fighting inside, infact he says he is, some statements he says he is a sinner, some that he is righteous, chosen, etc. The spirit and the flesh were, as he states, at war against each other. So yes we to will sin, but we are not sinners, sinners are those who are lost, who sin and sin again, they belong to sin, the world and devil. Saints may be tempted from time to time, more when they come to faith, less as they grow in faith, why? Because we are practicing righteous, doing our best not to mar His image in us.

Are they faults? Are they sins? As saved believers we are not sinners Sue, so I think I would say, I practice righteousness, I may be tempted occasionally, which is sin as we know, but...

1 John 1:7 (NKJV)
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Shalom
 
Active
Brother Paul and Sue, I sure agree that before Jesus came into my life I was one sorry sinner!!! My sadness lies that so many believers look at themselves in the past rather then there present condition. ( Rom 8:1) yet they have guilt. Quotes like I am a sinner saved by grace,means that one believes they are still in the condition of a sinner? And everyone I know who believes this,never grows and mature in God's grace or his knowledge.( 2 Peter 3:18) It is just sad to me. A new creature does not recall the old,because they are new,and by holding fast to the confession of our faith,we as Jesus did, can keep our peace!!( Phil 4:7-9) It's like having an old wine and mixing it with new wine.( Matt 9:16-17) neither can be preserved. So for me I am new. Do I have lack?? LOL I would rather look at myself as Jesus chooses to look at us.( Phil 4:8)
 
Loyal
All believers live two different realms all at the same time. The physical realm in which "Christ is in us", and us being "in Christ" sitting on the right hand of God in Heavenly places! (Eph 2:5-6)

On this earth, the Church is being "sanctified" which means "to make holy". This endeavor takes a lifetime and then some to accomplish. Being In Christ, this has already been accomplished which is why our salvation is secure. It is the Holy Spirits' work in us that causes this to happen.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Without the Holy Spirits' work obedience to the truth is not possible! (Rom 8:13) This was what God revealed in the Old Testament in what he himself would do!

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

When the Holy Spirit in us is "causing" you to do, and keep his commandments you will be the first one to know you are being sanctified.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

What we shall be is what we already are in Christ
 
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Loyal
Quotes like I am a sinner saved by grace,means that one believes they are still in the condition of a sinner?

That is how I see it brother, I do understand why people say they are sinners but that I pratice righteousness looking forward and upwards.

A new creature does not recall the old,because they are new,and by holding fast to the confession of our faith,we as Jesus did, can keep our peace!!( Phil 4:7-9) It's like having an old wine and mixing it with new wine.( Matt 9:16-17) neither can be preserved. So for me I am new. Do I have lack?? LOL I would rather look at myself as Jesus chooses to look at us.( Phil 4:8)


Well put my friend
 
Loyal
That is how I see it brother, I do understand why people say they are sinners but that I pratice righteousness looking forward and upwards.


Deer brothers you your self have said you are not perfect which means you sin correct. We have been set free of the bondage of sin,we are no loger slaves of sin. but we have to battle the flesh everyday, as long as we live in these tents we are sinners. now that we are made righteous we can win the battle against sin. But your very flesh is sinful !!! you must not forget that and let your guard down IMO

So let me ask one question to all that say they are not sinners. have you sinned since you have been saved??? I am willing to bet you have, therefore you are sinner. You just are not a slave to sin any longer. I practice righteousness and look upwards my life is changed. But its nothing compared to what its going to be when we receive our gloried bodies. We all fall short of God perfect holly standard, in these tents

Luke 14:11
For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
 
Loyal
Greetings Dave

Saying one is righteous is not exalting oneself, saying one is perfect is.

I feel both arguments are valid, your view an our view, they are both valid, because they are both scriptural.

As brother Curtis added above...

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Or as stated earlier...

1 John 1:7 (NKJV)
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

When we were saved, we depended of all sins, our slate was wiped clean, we came out of darkness to walk in the glorious light, Christ in us, us in Christ, the old self has gone we chose, New Life in Christ.

We chose to follow Him, learn from Him, to try be like Him, we are no longer 'sinners' we practice righteousness. Practice is the key word, but we do not practice sin, we practice righteousness, because we are new creations, made new in Christ Jesus, we are born anew so we are no longer of the old order, sinners in sin, in the world, with the devil as our father.

We have two choices in life, we choose life, we choose Jesus, whose to follow Him. Jesus was not a sinner, there was no sin in Him, He was the Righteous one, therefore we are to practice righteousness.

We are sin free because we are saved and redeemed by the blood of Christ. The light of Christ reveals sin, the world is darker than scarlet, in sin. We are saved brother, we are to be righteous, practice righteousness, how can we be righteous if we think we are sinners. Sinners sin and sin again, believers who are saved may sin but repent because the sin is known and we know we must repent and be sin free.

For me brother, I am saved, I practice righteousness, I do not belong to sin, the world and the devil, I am Christ's, He is in me, i am a saint but not perfect, none are perfect, none can be in this life, i am practicing righteousness because my Lord wants me to be like Him, I cannot be like Him if I think I am a sinner.
 
Loyal
Deer brothers you your self have said you are not perfect which means you sin correct


I am not perfect, I confirm that when I say, as scripture says, I 'practice' righteousness.

Practice means I will not always get it right but I try, I recognise my faults and aim to keep improving. That I feel is, practicing righteousness. I have put the horses in front of the chariot, not the other way round. I look to my Lord not to sin, I look to righteousness, I practice it, I am not a sinner, I may be tempted at times but I am forgiven, because I am saved, I am His, I am redeemed, I am a child of God, I practice righteousness.

Blessings brother
 
Active
Dave M Thanks for making my point,you view yourself as the same as before except, you say your a believer. Find one chapter and one verse where any of the disciples said they sinned? Faults? YES! Sin is covered already by the blood of Jesus. GRACE instructs, it is not greasy grace!( Titus 2:11-12) ( Psalm 14:1) We are not fools any longer bro.That is my definition of a sinner. So I suppose it is how one wishes to define a sinner.
 
Loyal
Greeting Dave

I feel these verses are silly to quote on their own as you have here. Each should be read in context to the passage they are in. They can so easily be read out of context.

You surprise me my friend, it seems like plucking at straws to back up your arguement, but it is weaker than straw. Please do not take the wrong way, I say it in love.

We are no longer sinners WE ARE TO Practice Righteousness.

I am in Christ my friend, like you, but i do not consider myself a sinner, I may make errors because I am not perfect, but I admit that when I say, I practice righteousness.

Saved believers ate not sinners, those who are in the world, not saved, are sinners, because they sin, they enjoy sinning, they thing sinning is funny, The Word is folly to them. Do you consider yourself a sinner like them, or a saved soul that may be tempted from time to time but will always repent? There is a big gap between the two Dave, one is in the light one is in the darkness, you cannot be in the light and in the darkness at the same time.

You cannot practice righteousness and be a sinner brother.

Bless you
 
Loyal
You cannot practice righteousness and be a sinner brother.


that is a false statement, let me ask you have you sinned since you have been saved??

do you know the difference between being enslaved to sin, and stumbling in sin?

so you realize we have a holly spirit who is leading us, and we have a vile flesh that is also trying to lead us?

Please brother when you call yourself righteous give credit to Jesus Christ who died on the cross so you could make that claim, its nothing you or I did!!!

I know you to be one of the most loving and patient and kind people on this board, I am not here to argue, so please dont take this as such. You just seem to be missing the fact you live in a vile evil flesh that has to be crucified everyday, but as long as we live in the flesh we are sinners, we ARE NOT PRACTICING SINNERS, but by Gods Perfect Holly standard we fall short while in the flesh making us sinners, no we are not like the sinner we once were, when we loved to sin, we are changed and live for God we hate sin, and practice obedience, but unless we do it perfectly we fall short of Gods Perfect Holly Standard, and that to me makes us a sinner.

When you study the bio of some of the greatest Christians in history you will see they consider themselves sinners !! knowing they fall short of Gods perfect and holly standard,
 
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