Reba1 said:

If one does not abide he was never Gods kid... she may have played the game ... he may have been TV preacher. Man kind is not above God . Man does not have control... where o where is the Scripture telling us we have free will... where is the Scriprture telling us we can undo our , Christs Blood bought Salvation.

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Reba1, I was agreeing with your posts and views until you made this statement about ''no free will''.

Do you really believe this?

One-day in heaven when you sitting and having tea with God. You look down and see your ''child'' suffering in flames, day after day for all eternity. Knowing that there is no true free will, will not make you upset with God?

God is omniscient but He is also good. If you have studied science you will know the relevance of the term ''limiting factors''. God's goodness is a limiting factor on His omniscience if omniscience leads to evil.

Christians are to know and teach of God as the prophets did. David said that God is righteous in ''all'' His ways Psalm 145:17, to the exclusion of ''none''. John says He is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

Now we come along and define the A-Z of God off a cherry picked single scripture saying that God is omniscient?

No free will, when hell exists, implies God is partial. Partiality is a height of wickedness. Just look at racism. Peter grasped that God is truly impartial Acts 10:34. So too should we. Especially considering the fact that we may just terribly fail at our one Christian job if we don't 2 Cor 5:20.

B-A-C said:

If you can't lose your salvation, then the wolves are of no consequence.

If you can lose your salvation, then the wolves matter.

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You believe the devils job / wolves are able to make us lose our salvation?

The devil / wolves are looking to destroy us and or make us utterly useless at our one job 1 Cor 5:20.

A Christian trying to keep themselves saved can so easily get caught up in ''their'' works and ''their'' salvation that they be utterly useless at actually serving God.

''No God, do not pick me to witness to the prostitutes, please God, no, I don't want to be tempted and lose my salvation. Place me in the library, please God''.

complete said:

Hello there @Butch5,

Do you have Scriptures to verify the fact that these are indeed the conditions which govern our receipt of eternal life as God's gift to us in Christ Jesus? No one who is truly born again of the grace of God can 'turn away' from the truth. They may outwardly give all appearances of it, but the Lord who knows the heart, knows those who are His, and He cannot deny Himself. (2 Timothy 2:15).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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As I've said in other posts the phrase "born again" refers to Israel. However, yes, there is Scripture that tell us of the conditions.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Heb. 5:9 KJV)

Christ became the author of salvation for those who obey Him.

KingJ said:

I am really going to try and say this nicely.

You are completely distorting and removing the significance of the passage of Jesus's interaction with the criminal next to Him on the cross. You addressed one of four issues raised and you did not properly deal with the one you attempted to. Every issue I rasied is the equivalent of a Mike Tyson knock-out punch. I am waiting for anti-osas believers to grasp this.

I am 100% correct in my view of the kind of spirit driving those who outright support an anti-osas belief because of the following reason:

The cross and our security in Jesus is ''THE'' stability in a Christians life.

Now you'all come along as wolves in sheeps clothing / learned scholars who profess to know God....and look to shake this foundation. You will affect young Christians but not mature Christians. You need to heed a verse like Matt 18:6.

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I doubt it's a Mike Tyson knock out punch since the Bible doesn't even teach the doctrine. What post contains your four points? I'll address them.

KingJ said:

I am really going to try and say this nicely.

You are completely distorting and removing the significance of the passage of Jesus's interaction with the criminal next to Him on the cross. You addressed one of four issues raised and you did not properly deal with the one you attempted to. Every issue I rasied is the equivalent of a Mike Tyson knock-out punch. I am waiting for anti-osas believers to grasp this.

I am 100% correct in my view of the kind of spirit driving those who outright support an anti-osas belief because of the following reason:

The cross and our security in Jesus is ''THE'' stability in a Christians life.

Now you'all come along as wolves in sheeps clothing / learned scholars who profess to know God....and look to shake this foundation. You will affect young Christians but not mature Christians. You need to heed a verse like Matt 18:6.

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Brother,

The anti-osas crowds are largely followers of religions and preachers who teach that say "unless you tithe you are none of HIS", or "unless you speak in tongues you are none of HIS", or "unless you refrain from eating meat you are none of HIS", or "unless you confess every single sin to the very earliest sin you've committed, you are none of HIS." Their theology is based not on grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, but on added WORKS and GIFT of TONGUES for salvation. Those are modern day pharisees and they will be liable for all they have done in the flesh.

KingJ said:

Reba1, I was agreeing with your posts and views until you made this statement about ''no free will''.

Do you really believe this?

One-day in heaven when you sitting and having tea with God. You look down and see your ''child'' suffering in flames, day after day for all eternity. Knowing that there is no true free will, will not make you upset with God?

God is omniscient but He is also good. If you have studied science you will know the relevance of the term ''limiting factors''. God's goodness is a limiting factor on His omniscience if omniscience leads to evil.

Christians are to know and teach of God as the prophets did. David said that God is righteous in ''all'' His ways Psalm 145:17, to the exclusion of ''none''. John says He is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

Now we come along and define the A-Z of God off a cherry picked single scripture saying that God is omniscient?

No free will, when hell exists, implies God is partial. Partiality is a height of wickedness. Just look at racism. Peter grasped that God is truly impartial Acts 10:34. So too should we. Especially considering the fact that we may just terribly fail at our one Christian job if we don't 2 Cor 5:20.

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Rather than saying God is partial, how about saying God is sovereign. As sovereign over all that HE has created, God does not owe anyone an explanation as to why some go to hell while others go to heaven, HE simply tells us by HIS HOLY WORD that this is so. That's the essence of sovereign.

JerryfromMass said:

Rather than saying God is partial, how about saying God is sovereign. As sovereign over all that HE has created, God does not owe anyone an explanation as to why some go to hell while others go to heaven, HE simply tells us by HIS HOLY WORD that this is so. That's the essence of sovereign.

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Seems way too often man has this idea he is sovereign . Man on an equal plane with God not for me. I am not my own i have been bought , paid for by the priceless Blood of the Lamb of God. Reading some of the liberal trash posted here make me realize how much more the WORD should be posted.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

JerryfromMass said:

The anti-osas crowds are largely followers of religions and preachers who teach that say "unless you tithe you are none of HIS", or "unless you speak in tongues you are none of HIS", or "unless you refrain from eating meat you are none of HIS", or "unless you confess every single sin to the very earliest sin you've committed, you are none of HIS." Their theology is based not on grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, but on added WORKS and GIFT of TONGUES for salvation. Those are modern day pharisees and they will be liable for all they have done in the flesh.

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Well I don't know of any scriptures that say anything about tithing, or tongues as a requirement for salvation. But there are definitely plenty about sin and works.

B-A-C said:

Well I don't know of any scriptures that say anything about tithing, or tongues as a requirement for salvation. But there are definitely plenty about sin and works.

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My point is this: Tithing is an old testament covenant with Israel, and in the Christian ekklesia tithing is demanded by pharisees masquerading as Christian pastors in order to enrich themselves. And, speaking in tongues is not a required manifestation of regeneration, but rather is one gift of many gifts the Holy Spirit imparts to the regenerated, and only pharisees masquerading as Christian pastors require speaking in tongues as proof of regeneration.

B-A-C said:

Well I don't know of any scriptures that say anything about tithing, or tongues as a requirement for salvation. But there are definitely plenty about sin and works.

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We are saved to do good works; we are not saved by our good works.

JerryfromMass said:

We are saved to do good works; we are not saved by our good works.

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I actually agree with this, the way it is written. There is a before and after. How you "get" saved, and how you "stay" saved.

B-A-C said:

I actually agree with this, the way it is written. There is a before and after. How you "get" saved, and how you "stay" saved.

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I won't say we stay saved by our good works, but rather we stay saved by God's abundant grace through our faith in Jesus. Our works (the fruits manifested in us via regeneration) transcend who we have become as children of God and all that we do to the glory of God. We certainly can not say to ourselves "Ah, this good thing I do (or have done) will cause God to look favorably upon me." Nay, for whatever good you think you've done is but filthy rags. Instead, we should be asking God to forgive us everytime we think we've done good, because, in fact, no matter how good we think we are, we've fallen woefully short again.

Butch5 said:

As I've said in other posts the phrase "born again" refers to Israel. However, yes, there is Scripture that tell us of the conditions.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Heb. 5:9 KJV)

Christ became the author of salvation for those who obey Him.

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Hello @Butch5,

Yes, I agree regarding the phrase, 'born again'. Though all who are saved by God's grace can be said to have been born from above.

'Though He were a Son,
yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered;
And being made perfect,
He became the author of eternal ('aionios') salvation,
unto all them that obey '(hupakouo') Him;
Called of God an high priest
after the order of Melchisedec.'
(Hebrews 5:8-10)

Paul speaks of the 'obedience of faith' in Romans 1:5. It was this obedience which I believe Paul was referring to in Hebrews 5:9 that you quote. The word translated 'obey' is (hupakouo): meaning 'to hear under' (as a subordinate), that is 'to listen attentively'; by implication to heed or conform to a command or authority. It is translated:- 'hearken', 'be obedient' and, 'obey'.

It is interesting that in the next verse (v.11) reference is made to their being 'dull of hearing', They were in danger of apostatizing (see 6:1-6), and verses 11-14 describes their condition as being 'dull of hearing': in need of teaching in 'the first principles of the oracles of God'; in need of 'milk' and not of 'strong meat'; 'Unskilful in the word of righteousness'; 'a babe'.

The Lord Jesus is used as an example of One Who though a Son, learned obedience by the things which He suffered, and having reached the goal of His faith, or being perfected, by His death and Resurrection to Life; He was able to be the author of eternal salvation to all who 'listened attentively', and 'obeyed' Him. In chapter 12:2 reference is again made to Him as not only 'the Author', but also 'the Finisher' of their faith: and they were urged to look unto Him, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is now sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Yes, simply hearkening attentively to the gospel of God concerning His Son, with the hearing of faith, and believing, submitting oneself to His rule and authority, is in itself is an act of faith obedience, . For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Each one of us who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ to the saving of their soul, is one who has entered into a life of faith obedience to the One Who died for them and rose again (as those listed in Hebrews 11, who believed God, like Abraham, and it was reckoned unto them for righteousness).

That is done, Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

complete said:

as those listed in Hebrews 11, who believed God, like Abraham, and it was reckoned unto them for righteousness).

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Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

complete said:

(as those listed in Hebrews 11, who believed God,

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It's interesting that almost everyone in Hebrews 11 did act or work to validate their belief. To "prove their faith" per se.

Noah built an ark.
Rahab hid the spies.
Moses left Egypt (and royalty).
Abraham sacificed Isaac,

... etc...

B-A-C said:

What kept them from being saved?

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Hello @B-A-C,

You are referring to Matthew 7:21-23 that you quoted in your post.

'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'

You ask, 'What kept them from being saved? Salvation itself is not the issue though is it, but entry into the kingdom of heaven.
What we do know is that they did not do the will of the Father: which was, surely, to 'believe on Him Whom He hath sent.'

In Christ Jesus
Chris

B-A-C said:

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

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Abraham was told directly by God all that Abraham was to do. Abraham did what God told him to do because Abraham had faith. You see that works done in obedience to God, and doing so in faith because God has commanded it, they are inseparable.

B-A-C said:

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

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Hello @B-A-C,

Yes, Abraham's faith obedience resulted in him being justified. He believed God, and it was counted unto Him for righteousness. He proved he had faith, by doing what God asked of Him. As did Rahab, in putting the red cord outside her window as directed, she showed her faith in God to keep His word and save her and her family from death when His armies came against Jericho.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

complete said:

ou ask, 'What kept them from being saved? Salvation itself is not the issue though is it, but entry into the kingdom of heaven.
What we do know is that they did not do the will of the Father: which was, surely, to 'believe on Him Whom He hath sent.'

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The answer is in that very scripture itself.

Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

It was that they kept practicing sin.

But even faith is a work.

John 6:28; Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
John 6:29; Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

B-A-C said:

The answer is in that very scripture itself.

Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

It was that they kept practicing sin.

But even faith is a work.

John 6:28; Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
John 6:29; Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

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'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'

Hello @B-A-C,

Yes, you are right, of course, they did indeed work iniquity, for they did not do the will of the Father. They prophesied in the name of the Lord, and cast out devils, and did many wonderful works, but not in accordance with the will of the Father.

* The Lord Jesus only ever did and said what the Father gave Him to do and say, He did the will of His Father.

In Christ Jesus
Chris