What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

PloughBoy · Jan 24, 2020

Sue D. said:
@PloughBoy -- just read your comment about 'the so-called Christianity'. And then 'what they call a miraculous conversion in 1977 , whatever that means and I don't care". @ 3:30 am that sounds a bit troubling.

Sue, it would sound troubling to you, it is suppose too. Don’t even try to figure it out. Just stay sweet as you are in Christ Jesus our Lord

rhern53 · Jan 24, 2020

Samson2020 said:
To rhern53

Everything you stated is correct. I would add one thing from the same area of passage. He said to him that if I tell you of earthly things and you believe not,
HOW CAN I TELL YOU OF SPIRITUAL THINGS, he knew he would not understand, and most no one on the face of the earth that hasn't experienced that baptism could comprehend how it happens or how it feels until the time it occurs to them. We can tell them but it sounds like a fairy tale to them. A lot of folks think they already got it when they were dipped in water but that ain't it. And I think they feel that way because thats how it happened with Jesus. But he had an appointment with destiny, as we all do, his just coincided with his water baptism.

Yes you mention a vital part HOW CAN I TELL YOU OF SPIRITUAL THINGS

What do they, the Jews know?
John 3:
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

what do they know?

We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen;

John 11:...23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Struggling Christain · Jun 28, 2020

I read the first page of this thread but not the following six pages. Is it possible or likely that Jesus meant that we must die and then be spiritually born? It is my impression that people who claim to be "born again" have fundamentally misunderstood what Jesus said. Of course, I might be the one with the fundamental misunderstanding.

Sue D. · Jun 28, 2020

@Struggling Christain -- Take a look at the Scripture being talked about. John 3:1-7 -- vs 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one of born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

vs 4 "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" and Jesus responds back -- Most assuredly, I say to you, "unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, "

vs 7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again."

In other words -- a person has to be alive -- like you and I are right now -- we're living breathing, we eat, sleep , etc. which means we've been 'born of water -- we came from our mother's birth water - her womb -- the bag of water that we spent 9 months in Before being physically born. --- we are Now able to accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. That is the Spiritual birth -- being born Again. That's a choice every person makes themselves. We need to hear the Word of God, either accept His plan for our salvation or reject it. Upon accepting it, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us -- and That will make a positive change in our lives.

So - we have the physical birth and then the spiritual birth -- being 'born again'. Hope that makes sense to you.

John 14: 6 Jesus Christ is telling us that "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me."

rhern53 · Jun 28, 2020

Struggling Christain said:
I read the first page of this thread but not the following six pages. Is it possible or likely that Jesus meant that we must die and then be spiritually born? It is my impression that people who claim to be "born again" have fundamentally misunderstood what Jesus said. Of course, I might be the one with the fundamental misunderstanding.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to give birth they say my water has broke. this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

what do they know?

We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen;

Matthew 28: KJV
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John 11:...23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Ezekiel 37: 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

God brings them back to Life and they will see the Kingdom and they will enter the Kingdom.

Samson2020 · Jun 28, 2020

Struggling Christain said:
I read the first page of this thread but not the following six pages. Is it possible or likely that Jesus meant that we must die and then be spiritually born? It is my impression that people who claim to be "born again" have fundamentally misunderstood what Jesus said. Of course, I might be the one with the fundamental misunderstanding.

If you are born again you know it. There is nothing on the earth that can change the inner knowledge that you have acquired from him, not to mention once you
hear his voice you are no longer just a believer you have become a knower. Spiritual birth requires spiritual conception and gestation. Most all of those born again
are in the gestation cycle while still in the body as they have not put on incorruptible immortality just yet. They are alive spiritually but still in the corruptible body
which is a school master to help the spirit overcome the flesh this is part of the new creatures education. Spirit is always at war with the flesh.

rhern53 · Jun 28, 2020

Samson2020 said:
If you are born again you know it. There is nothing on the earth that can change the inner knowledge that you have acquired from him, not to mention once you
hear his voice you are no longer just a believer you have become a knower. Spiritual birth requires spiritual conception and gestation. Most all of those born again
are in the gestation cycle while still in the body as they have not put on incorruptible immortality just yet. They are alive spiritually but still in the corruptible body
which is a school master to help the spirit overcome the flesh this is part of the new creatures education. Spirit is always at war with the flesh.

Matthew 28: KJV
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ezekiel 37

Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

Brother-Paul · Jun 28, 2020

Samson2020 said:
Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here!, or Lo there!, For, Behold the KINGDOM of GOD is WITHIN YOU."

As I've stated many times we all came out from God, that is our spirit. It is this spirit which is feminine in nature that resides in us that is the part he refers to in the above verse.
When that spirit conceives to the Holy Ghost it has just become a NEW CREATURE that never existed before, just like a zygote in the womb of a woman.
Now obviously this isn't a sexual thing but the Bible tells us that we understand the spiritual things by the natural things, so seeing how a natural pregnancy and then birth go it is evident that the new creature go through a gestational period before true birth. However just like a baby in the womb can hear and feel and even see, but not very well, so can the newly merged spirit within you.
At that moment we are able to hear the Lord when he speaks to us, which for some is more than others, but he will speak so that you know his voice.
It is also at this time that our understanding of spiritual things starts to blossom. We act like a starved baby but starved for the written word of God as well as his voice to comfort us. We now know that God really exists. No longer a believer but a knower of God and we know that he knows us.

Just personally speaking we do not SEE with the natural eye the KINGDOM because it is a SPIRITUAL KINGDOM. In this case it is see= the beginning of understanding.

The spirit being feminine is not necessarily assumed but we are called the BRIDE of CHRIST so take that for what its worth.

As the spirit within you matures God your Father will provide spiritual exercise for you, Doctrinal as well as personal sacrifice of that carnal mind you were born with. As the carnal mind dies and you bring into subjection all your members your spirit flourishes. Then when the Father sees fit he will separate you
from your earthly body just like he separated you from your mothers womb at natural birth.

On a personal note I was awakened 2,3,4 times a week by him and I knew to look at the clock and I would hear one word like Matthew. So i'd get up and see what the chapter and verse that corresponded to the time in Matthew said. It was normally an answer to something I was wondering about. A Revelation.

One particular night I was awakened at 3:33 and I heard the word Jeremiah. I didn't want to get up as I was quite tired. Long story short, I never moved nor spoke a word but inside I was saying to him I promise to look at this in the morning when I get up. Well my wife who was maybe a foot and a half away and had her back towards me in bed, completely asleep, said "YOUR NOT DOING WHAT I TOLD YOU TO DO", stirred a bit then resettled in her sleep.

He spoke to my external ear with her vocal cords believe it or not. More like scolded.

Look up Jeremiah 33:3 and see if it's something you would have God say to you. Jeremiah 3:33 doesn't exist.
Needless to say I called unto him and he answered with what I would call Holy Ghost school for a solid 2 plus years. Time passes and who can keep up.
As you all know the learning never stops but breaks are afforded as we have to work to feed the families etc...
And I would say the learning breaks are an opportunity to observe in the natural world just how the spirits in the world create havoc. Sort of like a field trip.
Experiencing the spiritual kingdom all around you as well as in you.
We may know a lot but its not just the knowing that we need, it's putting the principles to actions.
Sometimes it's being sent to a "church" you don't wanna go to cause they hate you for even mentioning something like praying in tongues, but you go anyways and once there something pops up, you got the answer for the question, and then you realize why your there, not to mention the obedience part.

I hope something I said may answer a question. I was trying but it morphed into a bit of testimony and natural world application.

If anyone else has personal experiences that were maybe in a different way in the Fathers dealing with you I'd love to read about it. Only met 1 other person raised as I was with the clock business.

On your last paragraph brother, it was because you had time for the Lord. 24/7/365.

Thanks for your testimony.

Bless you.

Struggling Christain · Jun 28, 2020

Samson2020 said:
If you are born again you know it. There is nothing on the earth that can change the inner knowledge that you have acquired from him, not to mention once you
hear his voice you are no longer just a believer you have become a knower. Spiritual birth requires spiritual conception and gestation. Most all of those born again
are in the gestation cycle while still in the body as they have not put on incorruptible immortality just yet. They are alive spiritually but still in the corruptible body
which is a school master to help the spirit overcome the flesh this is part of the new creatures education. Spirit is always at war with the flesh.

I absolutely believe in Jesus. I always have.

rhern53 · Jun 28, 2020

Brother-Paul said:
On your last paragraph brother, it was because you had time for the Lord. 24/7/365.

Thanks for your testimony.

Bless you.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 28: KJV
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ezekiel 37

Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

Trevor · Jun 28, 2020

PloughBoy said:
Well, maybe if we have the right translation of the Greek or Aramaic language. And stop using the word “born again” and use the word “born from Above”. That is plain, meaning “born of God” a heavenly birth. 1st birth is earthly flesh, then we have a second birth in side of our earthly body along with our earthly flesh which is a spiritual life in side of us. If your name was Paul at 1st born from the earthly then you had another spiritual birth from above at the age of 20, now there are 2 Paul’s in one body. A fleshly one and a spiritual one but the 2 are really one. Now “Nicodemus” you cannot figure this out so don’t even try. It is like the wind you do not know where it comes from and where it blows SO is everyone that is born of the Spirit. The kingdom is the Reign of God. Jesus said MY Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus also said: My words are Spirit. Satan is the Prince of this World. Given unto him by God. Those who are born from above., sees the Reign of God and will Enter that Kingdom at the appointed Time. The true Kingdom of God is everything as a whole. The seen and the unseen and the purpose of all things and why they exist. The Purpose of God for own existence. My mind cannot go any further.❤ Can anyone add to that if so, we all will be grateful.

I have to disagree, God gave dominion of the world to Adam, Genesis 1:26, Then God said, " Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. and Adam, through an act of disobedience to God, gave dominion over himself and all he posessed to Satan through his disobedience. Because of his disobedience, Adam was put out of the Garden of Eden and seperated from the tree of life. That made him spiritualy dead. Hence Jesus saying Matthew 8:22 " Let the dead bury their own dead" Being dead, man needed to be born again in Spirit, he needed his dead spirit to be brought back to life, and that's what happens when the Spirit enters us at new birth, when we ask Jesus into our lives. Another point to notice in Genesis, God said in Our image meaning God is more than one.

Samson2020 · Jun 28, 2020

Brother-Paul said:
On your last paragraph brother, it was because you had time for the Lord. 24/7/365.

Thanks for your testimony.

Bless you.

I think it was more like he made time for me. And filled me with zeal to consume the wisdom that was hidden in the book. I always felt like somehow it was cheating,
but to those whom he chooses, he teaches, and I'll be forever indebted to him for choosing to teach me.
Amen?

Brother-Paul · Jun 28, 2020

Samson2020 said:
I think it was more like he made time for me. And filled me with zeal to consume the wisdom that was hidden in the book. I always felt like somehow it was cheating,
but to those whom he chooses, he teaches, and I'll be forever indebted to him for choosing to teach me.
Amen?

So true my friend,

God gives us a lifetime of his time, first time to accept him, no matter how much h we reject at first, he calls us we do not call him, he gives us as long as it takes to come to him in pretense and faith.

But how many think an hour on Sunday is enough, they fail from the start by not taking up there cross and following Jesus.

Life is a prayer brother, a never ending prayer, Jesus is alive but not only alive he is alive in our hearts.

We are told to invest what God has given us, the more time we invest the more are our rewards brother. People cannot expect to get out if they don't put in, Time is precious, but it waits for no man, time is limited and should be used with care and for what brings eternal rewards.

Thank you Lord for your time in us, we pray you will be pleased with the time we devote to you, we are forever grateful, please continue to take us and use us and to reveal The Truth in Your Word to us. In Jesus Name we pray, Amen

Trevor · Jun 28, 2020

PloughBoy said:
Well, maybe if we have the right translation of the Greek or Aramaic language. And stop using the word “born again” and use the word “born from Above”. That is plain, meaning “born of God” a heavenly birth. 1st birth is earthly flesh, then we have a second birth in side of our earthly body along with our earthly flesh which is a spiritual life in side of us. If your name was Paul at 1st born from the earthly then you had another spiritual birth from above at the age of 20, now there are 2 Paul’s in one body. A fleshly one and a spiritual one but the 2 are really one. Now “Nicodemus” you cannot figure this out so don’t even try. It is like the wind you do not know where it comes from and where it blows SO is everyone that is born of the Spirit. The kingdom is the Reign of God. Jesus said MY Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus also said: My words are Spirit. Satan is the Prince of this World. Given unto him by God. Those who are born from above., sees the Reign of God and will Enter that Kingdom at the appointed Time. The true Kingdom of God is everything as a whole. The seen and the unseen and the purpose of all things and why they exist. The Purpose of God for own existence. My mind cannot go any further.❤ Can anyone add to that if so, we all will be grateful.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there Ploughboy, God did not give the world to Satan, he gave it to Adam Genesis1:26, Then God said, "Let us make man in our own image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the dominion given to Adam was transferred to Satan through that act of disobedience. Whereas God had access to Adam's dominion all the while he was in obedience to God, when Adam disobeyed God, he gave his allegiance to the one he did obey, giving him (Satan) access to his (Adam's) dominion. Later we learn the truth of this when Satan was tempting Jesus in the desert. Luke4:5 The Devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendour, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to, so if you worship me, it will all be yours." Jesus answered, " It is written: 'worship the Lord your God and serve him only." Notice, Jesus didn't refute the claim. After Adam disobeyed, they were put out of the garden and separated from the tree of life, which I believe is Jesus. John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life nobody comes to the Father except through me." In the garden, Adam had access to the tree of life and as such, had communion with the Father. So Adam and Eve, being separated from the tree of life, became spiritually dead. Matthew 8:22, But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Here, he was claiming that mankind were dead. He couldn't have meant physically dead, so he must have meant spiritually dead, and if dead, they needed to be born again in Spirit, to bring their spirits to life, to have communion once more with the Father. When we are accepted by Jesus we are infilled by the Holy Spirit and our spirits become alive again, or born again, if you will. If you noticed, I highlighted the word 'our' in my quotation from Genesis, in saying "let us make man in our own image, God was letting man know that there is a Godhead and God is more than one. In scripture, the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and The Spirit (of God) are mentioned separately in many situations and Jesus states. John 10:30 I and the Father are one, -John 14:9 "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 8:58 "I tell you the truth" Jesus answered "Before Abraham was born, I am!" When a person gives his or her life to Jesus, Jesus makes a promise; John 14:23 Jesus replied, " If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. This post covers a great deal, and the reality is, even a book would only scratch the surface. I pray it's understandable.

rhern53 · Jun 28, 2020

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

Curtis · Jun 28, 2020

Nicodemos should have been aware of the Old Testament scriptures that said.....

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

PloughBoy · Jun 28, 2020

Trevor said:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there Ploughboy, God did not give the world to Satan, he gave it to Adam Genesis1:26, Then God said, "Let us make man in our own image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the dominion given to Adam was transferred to Satan through that act of disobedience. Whereas God had access to Adam's dominion all the while he was in obedience to God, when Adam disobeyed God, he gave his allegiance to the one he did obey, giving him (Satan) access to his (Adam's) dominion. Later we learn the truth of this when Satan was tempting Jesus in the desert. Luke4:5 The Devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendour, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to, so if you worship me, it will all be yours." Jesus answered, " It is written: 'worship the Lord your God and serve him only." Notice, Jesus didn't refute the claim. After Adam disobeyed, they were put out of the garden and separated from the tree of life, which I believe is Jesus. John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life nobody comes to the Father except through me." In the garden, Adam had access to the tree of life and as such, had communion with the Father. So Adam and Eve, being separated from the tree of life, became spiritually dead. Matthew 8:22, But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." Here, he was claiming that mankind were dead. He couldn't have meant physically dead, so he must have meant spiritually dead, and if dead, they needed to be born again in Spirit, to bring their spirits to life, to have communion once more with the Father. When we are accepted by Jesus we are infilled by the Holy Spirit and our spirits become alive again, or born again, if you will. If you noticed, I highlighted the word 'our' in my quotation from Genesis, in saying "let us make man in our own image, God was letting man know that there is a Godhead and God is more than one. In scripture, the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and The Spirit (of God) are mentioned separately in many situations and Jesus states. John 10:30 I and the Father are one, -John 14:9 "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." John 8:58 "I tell you the truth" Jesus answered "Before Abraham was born, I am!" When a person gives his or her life to Jesus, Jesus makes a promise; John 14:23 Jesus replied, " If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. This post covers a great deal, and the reality is, even a book would only scratch the surface. I pray it's understandable.

Ok i do understand where you are coming from, for throughout the centuries it has been debated and come to a sound conclusion. In which i will not use their arguments, but the conclusion i had come to before i studied their presentations by simply reading my Bible.

!st Adam was Flesh, living soul, The word ADAM means HUMAN. in which we all come from, "White or BLACK' Adam is your daddy, EVE you mama! flesh

2nd. Adam life giving Spirit, The word Adam located here in context of "Holy Scripture" this "Human is a LIFE Giving SPIRIT. Name Jesus. His DADDY is GOD, His mama is name "MARY" she is flesh. His Daddy is a "SPIRIT" for HE is "BORN from ABOVE" he is a different creature. Now we who are true christians not by actions but by birth. "we had a second birth. 1st birth we came out between our Mama's legs, then we had another birth within us "BORN of GOD" a spiritual Heavenly Birth that we can also have a communication with GOD. A new completely creature. it is more that you have the "HOLY SPIRIT" in you. You are "A NEW CREATURE" that never, i say never existed before. I do not know why some "Christians" cannot grasp that. And you know they do not grasp it because of some of the things they say. and these words; "the day you eat, you shall surely die". is a strong debate. of What did God mean. I say he die and became "Dead in trespasses and sin" the moment they sinned. and that is another augument.

So my brother you also have rights as well, and i do respect that and receive those as well. And I cannot be clear in "Explicit" form when Satan became "The god of this world. or the prince of this world. or if A human has ever been "The god of this world" . far as i am concern, humans has always been slaves here. But one day we will RULE the EARTH! that i am sure of.

Curtis · Jun 28, 2020

Becoming "born again" (born from above) causes a person to go from being "darkness" to light". The new birth delivers a person from the powers of darkness, and it translates them into the Kingdom of his dear Son!

Eph 5:8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Curtis · Jun 28, 2020

The purpose of "light" is not only to give "life" (John 1:4) it also gives "vision" to the spiritual eyes so that the Kindom of God in which one is translated into can be seen!!!

Eph 5:13 But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible,
Eph 5:14 for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

To see "light" it requires light to see light. God's Kingdom is a Kingdom of light!

Psa 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

God is light!!

rhern53 · Jun 28, 2020

Curtis said:
The purpose of "light" is not only to give "life" (John 1:4) it also gives "vision" to the spiritual eyes so that the Kindom of God in which one is translated into can be seen!!!

Eph 5:13 But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible,
Eph 5:14 for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

To see "light" it requires light to see light. God's Kingdom is a Kingdom of light!

Psa 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

God is light!!

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

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