Sue it's a spiritual death, not physical taking of the tree of good and evil.
Are you suggesting that we would have never died if they hadn't taken of the forbidden fruit, even if we had a accident. Doesn't add up that you NEVER die physically.
Ask yourself do we have to be born again physically first, sorry Sue but you
are wrong, born again is not to live to the physical but the spirit of
Jesus Christ.
We are born into sin, set free from our sin and ourselves. through Jesus Christ, born again.
I'm not taking about two different things, I'm taking about two different lives.
Hope this helps,
With Love Wnl

Wnl said:

Hi All, going back to the original thread, you must be born again.

You must go back to Eden where the spiritual trees were separate.

Good and evil could never mix with the tree of life, you cannot
take from both. They were separate then as to today.
So to take from the tree of life (Jesus) you must be born again and
Go from good and evil, to righteousness and truth because of love.

Jesus would never accept the word good from Nickodemus, simply
because He wasn't good and evil. Jesus replied only God is Good.

Please don't reply with the envisage on Jesus being good,
I don't want to go there, as it's a big subject and another thread.

Click to expand...

Jesus is God! Ask Him, Thomas! Meaning ask Jesus then ask Thomas. You cannot separate the Two or Three. 1x1x1=1. All eternity long.❤ The Word created the cosmos and everything in it. The good and the bad. It was the will of The Father for the glory of The Father.

Wnl said:

Sue it's a spiritual death, not physical taking of the tree of good and evil.
Are you suggesting that we would have never died if they hadn't taken of the forbidden fruit, even if we had a accident. Doesn't add up that you NEVER die physically.
Ask yourself do we have to be born again physically first, sorry Sue but you
are wrong, born again is not to live to the physical but the spirit of
Jesus Christ.
We are born into sin, set free from our sin and ourselves. through Jesus Christ, born again.
I'm not taking about two different things, I'm taking about two different lives.
Hope this helps,
With Love Wnl

Click to expand...

American Standard Version
So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Hi PloughBoy,
Love that scripture that you have quoted,
The last Adam (Jesus)became a life-giving spirit , meaning Jesus came
to give us a new spiritual life, as we were dead in our old life.Amen
With Love, Wnl

Ploughboy,

You worry me a bit. In one post you make the comment that "JESUS IS GOD", then in your next post quoting the ASV it says that the "last Adam (Jesus) BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT." The word became is very important. He laid down his life for his friends (us) which he tells us greater love hath no man than that. And he did it because he understood the reward which was the BECOMING of the LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. The second post is correct, the first is not. Jesus was born a natural man, then was born again at Jordan and became that first SON of God spiritually showing us the process. The miracles and such were a way for his Father to show the people that he(Jesus) spoke for his Father and it was the truth. Even God telling those who could hear him that "This is my beloved SON, hear ye him."
He went through the same process that we are to go through in the being BORN AGAIN experience. He was showing us the WAY. After resurrection and glorification he then BECAME the LIFE GIVING SPIRIT that we know today as the SPIRITUAL SON OF GOD (Jesus Christ), which then makes him a God. It is his pleasure to give that SEED OF LIFE to those whom the Father has given him as he has procured the ability to give that seed from within himself, and it is this seed that merged with our spirit that creates the NEW CREATURE WITHIN this earthen vessel.

The best example of the seed is the parable of the corn of wheat falling into the ground and dying and then it is able to bring forth much fruit. He being the corn of wheat died then when raised and glorified had many seeds to spread throughout the world according as his Father directed. Just like a stalk of wheat
but so much more. And of course this was an analogy for the mind of men to grab a hold of the concept.

Jesus was bound by the Mosaic Law. He was committed to accomplished that which was promised to the Fathers in the Old Testament

Jews were first . ...Jesus came to minister only to the Circumcision to confirm the promises made by God to the fathers.

Jesus commanded His disciples not to go to the gentiles but only to the lost sheep of Israel.

Romans 15: 8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

At the His Sacrifice, sheading blood.... IT Was Finished ........ now begins the saving of the World ... the curtain was splitin2 ... open for the world

rather than the Law... Now enter Grace for all who will except ... and now Christians become part of the body of Christ simply by faith without the Law

Hi Samson 2020
Just one thing in your post to ploughboy,
Jesus was not born a natural man, I ask you who was His Father.
He was planned by God to save us from our sins before the
foundation of the world by His Father God. He never sinned.
But I do understand what you are trying to say.
Hope this helps
With Love Wnl

Wnl said:

Hi Samson 2020
Just one thing in your post to ploughboy,
Jesus was not born a natural man, I ask you who was His Father.
He was planned by God to save us from our sins before the
foundation of the world by His Father God. He never sinned.
But I do understand what you are trying to say.
Hope this helps
With Love Wnl

Click to expand...

The Word created all things. The Word in the Old Testament spoke to Moses From the Burning Bush,

The Lord gave Moses the 10 Commandments. The Word Became flesh and dwelt among us.

He was made lower than the angels Hebrews 2:7, Psalms 8:5-9 is God lower than the angels?

He was raise as a child with other kids. He grew in wisdom and stature. He could do nothing without God showing Him.

He suffered the torture, was crucified, died and God raise Him from the dead. He is seated at the Right Hand of the Father

We might be saying the same thing from different angles. 1st I will say in the wound like you said on another post, you remember the Fetus. The virgin birth. God ‘s substance and the Holy Spirit the carrier. One part of this, then another part of this. One part God another part human [Mary].. Somewhere I did say this and I think you agreed. That it is only 2 things impossible for God to do, that is to lie and to deny himself. I perceive to myself that Jesus was 100 percent fetus and 100 percent God in the wound, so at birth He also was 100 percent human and 100 percent God, why because with men things are impossible but with God all things are possible. And since God created the cosmos it is a small thing for Him to be 100 percent fetus or Man and 100 God at the same time. IMO. He gives life not the seed of life to those the Father has given Him because HE is LIFE Himself. He gives Himself that we may receive life.

Maybe were in disagreement due to semantics. I'm saying that the Father is GOD and he is the Father of us all Including Jesus who became a God after resurrection. Agree or no?

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2-"Hereby know ye the spirit of God: EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSETH THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH IS OF GOD." 3-"And every spirit that confesseth NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the FLESH is not of God: and this is that spirit of Antichrist......"

14-"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the SON to be the THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD" I.E. GOD DID NOT SEND HIMSELF.

My question to you is If Jesus was 100% GOD and 100% man why was it necessary for him to be baptized with the Holy Ghost?

WNL I would like to hear your reply as well to the above statement of JOHN. As you say Jesus was NOT born a natural man?

Ok let’s put it this way, Jesus the God man never existed until Mary had him. But The Son of God [The WORD] always existed with the Father. The WORD began flesh and dwell among us,

God can be everywhere at all times and in any form. Right

Another plus when Jesus healed people, fed people by He did it in His Divinity not in His humanity.

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the SON OF GOD, GOD dwelleth in him, and he in God."

"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and SENT HIS SON to be the propitiation for our sins."

Why does this and all other verses say he sent his SON and not himself?


There is a great misunderstanding here in that Gods WORD is his PLAN. He sends his word or plan into the world to complete that to which he sent it( a blueprint if you will). Jesus was the word or PLAN made flesh to show us what the Plan was. He is the blueprint.

We ALL came out from the Father including Jesus. And we all have our existence in God. But as God himself says over and over in the Old Testament there is NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME. I KNOW OF NONE.

Your almost there. Jesus the GOD MAN did not exist until he received his baptism in the Holy Ghost at Jordan. If you read up on the early days of his life you will find he was never called Jesus Christ until after that Baptism. He was referred to only as Jesus.

If you look at the first part of Matthew and do the counting of the begatting, you will find that the 41st generation was JESUS, the 42nd generation was Jesus Christ. He was born a MAN then BORN again at Jordan and renamed Christ as he became the GOD MAN you speak of.


The healings were done by the Father he even says so. John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak, I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, HE DOETH THE WORKS." He is giving God his Father the credit for the words he spoke and all the miracles that the people saw by his hand.

I agree with you on your question but that is not evidence to support what your trying to defend.

Romans 9:29 "Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a SEED, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrah. Without his seed in you you are not born again for it this seed that produces the SON of GOD within you. Keep it spiritual please. Remember the BRIDE of Christ. What happens if a Bride spends time with her husband? Does she not eventually become pregnant? This is the conception of the spiritual being within you and without it there is no NEW you.

I want to share one verse with you for the seeds sake, but it has much much deeper meaning than what I will use it for.

Isaiah 59:21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of THY SEED, nor out of the mouth of thy SEEDS SEED, saith the Lord form henceforth and for ever."

Read a bit before this verse to make it plain to you that he is talking to Jesus before he was born and notice that he talks to Jesus as having his own SEED and that SEED having their own SEED. This is where it gets really interesting. But were not ready for that yet. The seed of Jesus is Spiritual as he received of his Father so he gives unto us.

Hi Samson, Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit, we weren't.
I don't even know why you make this a big deal.
God said this is My beloved Son of whom I am well pleased.
God never lies.
With Love, Wnl

Now we know that: John 14: 28 (ESV). Jesus said: that “ I am going to the Father, for The Father is Greater than I.” And on another occasion He said: “ know ye not I be about my Father’s business”. In the Old Testament a Jewish person never address GOD as their Father. Jesus did. I would love to express the term God here. But I think it will not come out right. But I have notice on one of your post, you did a excellent job of doing so, but it went over most heads.

Believe me I understand The “Seed”. When it was planted. Who is the SEED. What the SEED will become. Mmmm. One SEED One GOD. Just a little bit of understanding here.

I was born of water when I emerged from the amniotic fluid and the womb. My first birth. I was born of the Spirit when I emerged from being baptized in the Spirit. My second birth.