@Quantrill,

Quantrill said:

No, God is saying it. (Eph. 2:8)

Quantrill

Click to expand...

God's word is not teaching that He gives a man the gift of faith, to initially believe in Jesus Christ. Every man born into this world has faith the grain of a mustard seed to believe in Jesus Christ. Once a person uses their mustard seed faith to believe in Jesus Christ, the believer receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift of God's faith is not received until a person receives the "Grace" of God which is through Holy Ghost.

Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God

This scripture is teaching a person uses "their" faith to receive God's Grace which the Holy Ghost comes through. The measure of faith is not received until a person receives the Holy Ghost.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

God does not deal to every man the measure of faith until they become born again.

For me personally, I find the title of this thread a little odd.

Can we do it without loving Jesus? Why would anyone ask that question? Why would anyone even wonder that?
To me that's like asking .."do I Have to love chocolate?", or "do I Have to love sitting on the beach and drinking coffee?"
I don't ever think about do I "have" to do these things, I just do them because I like to.
Do I "have" to love my grandchildren? Hmmm... I suppose I don't "have" to, but why would anyone not do it? Why would anyone not want to?

Do you love chocolate? Donuts? Coffee? A man, a woman; A sports team? Your car? Your bank account? Your children? Your job? Your friends?
If the answer to any of those questions if "yes". Do you ever ask yourself, do I "have" to love this thing (fill in the blank).
Jesus has done more for you than anyone of those things, more than any one of those people. In fact I dare say more than all of those things and people put together.
How many of them died for you?

Even if I could go through this life without loving Jesus... why would anyone want to?

Quantrill said:

I gave you Scripture.

Quantrill

Click to expand...

You said '''Of Him' means those who are 'of Him'. Their origin is from God.''

The scripture you gave John 3:3 and John 3:5 talks of the need to be born again. 1 Pet 1:3 you are interpreting with Calvinist glasses on? As is your statement blurry and sounding Calvinistic. God has pre selected those who would be born again.

It would be nice if in post # 24 you simply said ''I disagree, I am a Calvinist''.

regibassman57 said:

@Quantrill,


God's word is not teaching that He gives a man the gift of faith, to initially believe in Jesus Christ. Every man born into this world has faith the grain of a mustard seed to believe in Jesus Christ. Once a person uses their mustard seed faith to believe in Jesus Christ, the believer receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift of God's faith is not received until a person receives the "Grace" of God which is through Holy Ghost.

Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God

This scripture is teaching a person uses "their" faith to receive God's Grace which the Holy Ghost comes through. The measure of faith is not received until a person receives the Holy Ghost.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

God does not deal to every man the measure of faith until they become born again.

Click to expand...

What do you base this on, that every man in this world has faith to believe in Christ?

If faith comes after one is born-again, then one was not born-again by faith in Christ.

(Eph. 2:8) is pretty clear that faith is a gift from God. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God..."

Quantrill

KingJ said:

You said '''Of Him' means those who are 'of Him'. Their origin is from God.''

The scripture you gave John 3:3 and John 3:5 talks of the need to be born again. 1 Pet 1:3 you are interpreting with Calvinist glasses on? As is your statement blurry and sounding Calvinistic. God has pre selected those who would be born again.

It would be nice if in post # 24 you simply said ''I disagree, I am a Calvinist''.

Click to expand...

There are things in Calvinism I do agree with, but not all. So, I don't call myself a Calvinist.

I make a distinction in those who are of God and those who are not of God. It is not so much a 'pre selection' as it is being from God. Understand, these are not things one goes evangelizing the lost with. These are things we learn as believers and grown in knowledge and grace with. To be 'of God' means you are either 'of God' or not 'of God' at the very beginning; your birth into this world.

When Adam and Eve fell another seed line was introduced into the picture of the human race. One of God and one of satan. Don't ask me how, as I don't know, but there was definitely another seed line. Thus you had those being born who were 'of God' and those being born who were not 'of God'.

So, you can call me calvinistic all you want but I do not study Calvin and only see that I agree with him in some areas as people have pointed out.

Quantrill

B-A-C said:

For me personally, I find the title of this thread a little odd.

Can we do it without loving Jesus? Why would anyone ask that question? Why would anyone even wonder that?
To me that's like asking .."do I Have to love chocolate?", or "do I Have to love sitting on the beach and drinking coffee?"
I don't ever think about do I "have" to do these things, I just do them because I like to.
Do I "have" to love my grandchildren? Hmmm... I suppose I don't "have" to, but why would anyone not do it? Why would anyone not want to?

Do you love chocolate? Donuts? Coffee? A man, a woman; A sports team? Your car? Your bank account? Your children? Your job? Your friends?
If the answer to any of those questions if "yes". Do you ever ask yourself, do I "have" to love this thing (fill in the blank).
Jesus has done more for you than anyone of those things, more than any one of those people. In fact I dare say more than all of those things and people put together.
How many of them died for you?

Even if I could go through this life without loving Jesus... why would anyone want to?

Click to expand...

Agree with you on this. And what could be the benefit of eternal life with Jesus to anyone who did not love Jesus?

B-A-C said:

For me personally, I find the title of this thread a little odd.

Can we do it without loving Jesus? Why would anyone ask that question? Why would anyone even wonder that?
To me that's like asking .."do I Have to love chocolate?", or "do I Have to love sitting on the beach and drinking coffee?"
I don't ever think about do I "have" to do these things, I just do them because I like to.
Do I "have" to love my grandchildren? Hmmm... I suppose I don't "have" to, but why would anyone not do it? Why would anyone not want to?

Do you love chocolate? Donuts? Coffee? A man, a woman; A sports team? Your car? Your bank account? Your children? Your job? Your friends?
If the answer to any of those questions if "yes". Do you ever ask yourself, do I "have" to love this thing (fill in the blank).
Jesus has done more for you than anyone of those things, more than any one of those people. In fact I dare say more than all of those things and people put together.
How many of them died for you?

Even if I could go through this life without loving Jesus... why would anyone want to?

Click to expand...

Dear Brother BAC,
You won't find the title strange if you were to consider the author of the thread.
Tying it to doing what Jesus tells us to do.
Main consideration being that if you don't do what He says, you don't love Him, and if you don't love Him, how can you be one of His? Follow the bread crumbs Dear Brother

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

@Christ4Ever,

Christ4Ever said:

Dear Brother BAC,
You won't find the title strange if you were to consider the author of the thread.
Tying it to doing what Jesus tells us to do.
Main consideration being that if you don't do what He says, you don't love Him, and if you don't love Him, how can you be one of His? Follow the bread crumbs Dear Brother

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Click to expand...

Christ4Ever, do you agree with this? As you said, "being that if you don't do what He says, you don't love Him, and if you don't love Him, how can you be one of His?"

That is truly what I believe. Many Christians believe all they have to do is have a mental assent of belief in the name of Jesus Christ and they are going to Heaven when they die. It's not that simple.

regibassman57 said:

@Christ4Ever,

Christ4Ever, do you agree with this? As you said, "being that if you don't do what He says, you don't love Him, and if you don't love Him, how can you be one of His?"

That is truly what I believe. Many Christians believe all they have to do is have a mental assent of belief in the name of Jesus Christ and they are going to Heaven when they die. It's not that simple.

Click to expand...

Hello Brother,
I know it's what you believe and why I answered the curiosity Brother BAC had on the naming of the Post. Though I'm sure he had an inkling of why. Slowly we get to know those who stay with us and what they believe through the words they use, and of course the topics. At least a little bit of who they may be, at least in Christ Jesus. Still yours just happens to jump up at me a bit more than others.

The difference between us would probably be, and the reason as a member I don't join in too many of your conversations is that I don't tie Salvation by the Grace of God to ones failings. As a Moderator? Well it happens sometimes, but not due to any animus.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Can a person obtain Eternal Life Without Loving Jesus?

this question begs the question for the OP

@regibassman57 do you love Jesus with all your heart might and soul? just for the record I do and could not imagine life any other way.

To me "grace" get s rid of extremism.

No doubt much of this thread comes from verses like John 14:15; John 14:21; and John John 15:10;

John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

I love my wife. Because I love my wife, I try to please her. I try not to do things that hurt her.
Now I suppose if some man liked some woman, and he knew the woman didn't like men who drank beer, the man could go for the rest of his life not drinking beer in the hope that the woman would come to like him.

On the other hand, there were a lot of things about my wife I didn't even know until after we had been married for a while. Everything she does doesn't make sense to me.
It doesn't have to.

I know guys who say things like... well I have to go home now, I "have" to take out the trash, or I "have" to mow the grass. Gotta keep the ole ball and chain happy.
What if our point of view was... the is an opportunity to show my wife I love her. She might love me even if I don't take out the trash, but it will make her happy.

I notice Jesus didn't say "if you start keeping my commandments, you will eventually come to love me".
When I read this passage, it's almost the opposite.
It's almost like Jesus said "If you really love me, you'll eventually start keeping my commandments (as best you can) because you do love me."

Now I don't love my wife perfectly. There are times the grass doesn't get mowed. There are times the trash doesn't get taken out immediately.
But I am pretty sure if my wife and I look back over the years we have been married.... we can agree that for the most part, I tried to do what made her happy, and tried not to hurt her.
(and vice versa with her, not hurting me)

Some of this is even guessing. We may not know that cooking fish and broccoli in the kitchen makes her eyes water and her nose run.
But we can be pretty sure that if we are looking at other women if a lustful way, it's going to hurt her.

I don't think we have a be "absolutely perfect" in order for Jesus to know whether we love Him or not.
But I do agree that if we look back over the years... (especially the more recent years)... He (and us ourselves) can tell if we lived our lives in a way the showed whether we loved Him or not, even if we didn't do it perfectly.

Dave M said:

Can a person obtain Eternal Life Without Loving Jesus?

this question begs the question for the OP

@regibassman57 do you love Jesus with all your heart might and soul? just for the record I do and could not imagine life any other way.

Click to expand...

@Dave M,
I love God in all that I understand. I'm not perfect in love yet, but I'm striving to love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength.

regibassman57 said:

@Dave M,
I love God in all that I understand. I'm not perfect in love yet, but I'm striving to love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength.

Click to expand...

just to clarify you believe God is Jesus in the flesh correct?

@Dave,
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Dave M said:

just to clarify you believe God is Jesus in the flesh correct?

Click to expand...

1 Jn 4:2; ..

Love you Brothers!

@Christ4Ever,
Sorry, accident...

@Dave M,
I believe that God has come in the flesh as Jesus Christ. I hope this satisfies your curiosity.

regibassman57 said:

@Dave M,
I believe that God has come in the flesh as Jesus Christ. I hope this satisfies your curiosity.

Click to expand...

yes I understood that,

but I am curios of your belief that you do wrong but dont sin. since sin is not sin for you. So what is the wrong that you do and how often do you do it??

do you do this wrong willfully?

@Dave,

Dave M said:

yes I understood that,

but I am curios of your belief that you do wrong but dont sin. since sin is not sin for you. So what is the wrong that you do and how often do you do it??

do you do this wrong willfully?

Click to expand...

God sees believers in the body of life, which is the body of Christ. Because God sees and reckons a believer this way, He can only see them in a state of Righteousness. This is why God "IS NOT" imputing sin unto any believer. We have Eternal Life at this time by faith and God also sees believer through the eyes of faith. In the day of judgment God will condemn any man who says they believe in name only, but does not posses the fruit of love (unfruitful believers). If a man confesses they believe in Jesus and has no fruit/character of Christ they will be seen as a liar.

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

To know Jesus is to keep His word; to love Jesus is to keep His commandments. A man cannot love Jesus without knowing Him. A believer can only develop the character of Christ in love if they keep His commandment (Joh. 15:4,5). The way Christ will know a person is not His is if that person has "no fruit" (unfruitfulness); also known as tares. Fruit of righteousness is the character of Christ; unfruitfulness is the apathy and characteristic of the devil.

God is not willing that any man perish. A good tree will bring forth and develop the fruit/character of Christ. A corrupt tree (tare believers) will be unfruitful. It is only because of God's Grace they are still in the body of Christ.

Matthew 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world:but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

When I do wrong (lust, anger, fear,etc,), I know it's wrong and I know I didn't develop in Christ's character, so I repent and try doing better the next time that situation presents itself. Because I and Christ know I did wrong, I judge myself so God doesn't have to judge me.