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Can a person obtain Eternal Life Without Loving Jesus?

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Active Member
1. Is it possible for a confessed believer to inherit Eternal Life without loving Jesus Christ?

2. What is the love of Christ He expects from a believer, and how is love expressed for Jesus Christ?
 
Active Member
1. Is it possible for a confessed believer to inherit Eternal Life without loving Jesus Christ?

2. What is the love of Christ He expects from a believer, and how is love expressed for Jesus Christ?
I doubt any believer loves Jesus Christ when they first come to Him for salvation. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ. We learn and grow to love Him after that as we experience our Christian life.

Love begats love. He knows that. He knows that when I don't love Him, yet He shows me love, that will begat love in me for Him.

Quantrill
 
1. Is it possible for a confessed believer to inherit Eternal Life without loving Jesus Christ?

2. What is the love of Christ He expects from a believer, and how is love expressed for Jesus Christ?
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.


5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.


9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if (very important IF) you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

In peace
 
Active Member
@Hiswillbedone,
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.


5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.


9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if (very important IF) you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

In peace
I do agree with you, but I'm thinking you should explain yourself. Many people may read this and may not understand the scriptures you posted. It's always nice to see how a person reasoned the scriptures out to come to their conclusion. But I agree with you.
 
Active Member
I doubt any believer loves Jesus Christ when they first come to Him for salvation. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ. We learn and grow to love Him after that as we experience our Christian life.

Love begats love. He knows that. He knows that when I don't love Him, yet He shows me love, that will begat love in me for Him.

Quantrill
Good point. We don't have any "good" when we come to Jesus.

Which is the reason we come to him.
 
Active Member
@Chad4Him,


You said we don't have any good in us, what do you mean when you say this?
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life

We are created to do good works but God did not save us because of our good works.

let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Hebrews 10:22

We come to Jesus guilty and dirty with sin, coming to Him to be cleansed and committing our life in service to Him.
 
Active Member
@Chad4Him,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life

We are created to do good works but God did not save us because of our good works.

let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Hebrews 10:22

We come to Jesus guilty and dirty with sin, coming to Him to be cleansed and committing our life in service to Him.
The complete context that you have taken these verses from is not about "Eternal Life." The context of those scriptures you used - from verse one to verse Ten, is mainly about sin. The only verse that talks about being "saved" is Ephesians 2:5, 9. These verses are speaking, we were "dead in sin" and we were "saved" from what we were dead to - sin. These are the scriptures you presented.

Titus 3:5 is also about sin. This is why the scripture says, "not by "works" of Righteousness "WE" have done." This is a comparison with Israel's sacrifices of righteousness and Jesus' works of Righteousness. A natural man could not do the works of Righteousness in taking away sins, but a man "can learn" to put on righteousness and walk in it. The works of sacrifices under the law could not give Eternal Life. Only Jesus' sacrifice for sin could give life and "open the door" to Eternal Life. The only way a man could have Eternal Life is if sin is removed first.

God did ordain man to good works, "in Adam," as Ephesians 2:10 teaches. If Adam would have done good works, then all men would have lived and done good works. But because Adam sinned, all men died and became sinners. Man can do good works as sinners, but they are not recognized by God because they are sinners by nature. A sinner cannot do Righteous works, but in the minds of man they can.The bible teaches us the Gentiles operated in the law by nature; from the law you get that actions of good works; because the law good. The Gentile's good works are never accepted of The Lord because they do not believe that Jesus is Lord and has died for their sins.

Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another:wink:
 
Active Member
@Chad4Him,


Titus 3:5 is also about sin. This is why the scripture says, "not by "works" of Righteousness "WE" have done."
Could you clarify? To you, does the verse read differently than this?

he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit
 
Moderator
Staff Member
We come to Jesus as sinners.

Our love grows as we get to know Him and see how awesome and wonderful He is.

At first there may not be full understanding and comprehension that leads to full deep love.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Ephesians 5:8
 
Active Member
@Chad4Him,

Could you clarify? To you, does the verse read differently than this?

he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit
I agree with what the scripture says…, but in context it’s teaching we have been “saved from sin” by the “works” of Jesus Christ doing what man could not do. All scriptures point to the deliverance from sin “first” and then the door is opened to eternal life. This is because we “could not” have eternal life as long as sin was present (Gal. 3:21).

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been “a law” given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

The law could not give life or Righteousness “spiritually” because the law could not take away sin. This is what Titus 3:1-5 is talking about. It is not addressing eternal life initially until sin is removed.

Tit 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to “every good work,”

Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.

Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Before they knew Jesus Christ they were sinners doing all these foolish works as we see itemized above in verses 2, 3. Titus started teaching they should be ready to do good works now that they are saved; after God revealed His kindness and love to man, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Man was saved from their sins by the “WASHING” of “REGENERATION,” of the born again experience; and given the Holy Ghost which renewed them after their sins were removed (2Co. 5:21). Remember, sin is why man could not have life/the Holy Ghost abiding in them forever.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The “works of Righteousness” in this context is from sin. A man could not do these works of Righteousness - though they tried under the Mosaic Law.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

We know that Israel worked to be Righteous through the Atonement of animal sacrifices which could not take away their sins that they may be spiritually righteous; they were only righteous through their actions of the flesh (obedience). So Jesus came to work the works of Spiritual Righteousness by becoming the final Atonement for sins. This is what man could not do (Rom 8:3; Acts 13:39).

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an “END” of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

If Jesus didn’t finish the transgression and make and end of sins, everlasting Righteousness could not enter and Jesus would not have been anointed the most Holy.
 
Active Member
1. Is it possible for a confessed believer to inherit Eternal Life without loving Jesus Christ?

2. What is the love of Christ He expects from a believer, and how is love expressed for Jesus Christ?
1. No.

We can only be a true believer if God reveals Jesus as Lord to us 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. God only does this if we love Him. He judges our hearts at depth nobody can Jer 17:9-11. Hating what is wicked and clinging to what is good is loving God Rom 12:9. We do not have to be perfect to love God. Consider Matt 25: 37-40 [COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ ''The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me[/COLOR].’

2. God requires the greatest act of love from us, namely for us to lay down our lives for Him as He has done for us John 15:13. As explained by Jesus in Matt 16:24.

We express love for Jesus through obedience to His commandments John 14:15.
 
@Hiswillbedone,


I do agree with you, but I'm thinking you should explain yourself. Many people may read this and may not understand the scriptures you posted. It's always nice to see how a person reasoned the scriptures out to come to their conclusion. But I agree with you.
I personally feel like these scriptures don't need much, if any, interpretation. Jesus is talking clearly in this passage.

If you love me, then you follow His commands. If we follow His commands, then we stay apart of His vine. If at any time we stop following His commands, then we stop loving Him. If we stop loving Him, then God will cut us off of the vine and throw us into the fire.

As mentioned above, Jesus talks plainly. Interpretation is not needed.

In peace
 
Active Member
If at any time we stop following His commands, then we stop loving Him. If we stop loving Him, then God will cut us off of the vine and throw us into the fire.
What then is the difference between Christianity and another God fearing religion? Do you divorce your spouse / disown your children if they stop doing the dishes?
 
What then is the difference between Christianity and another God fearing religion?
I am not sure what you are asking here? Do you mind rewording the question a different way please? Thanks.
Do you divorce your spouse / disown your children if they stop doing the dishes?
That seems like a pretty drastic step to take for not doing the dishes... What is the correlation between this question and what I shared in my above post?
To answer your second question: No I wouldn't do that to them not doing the dishes, but, I will question why they didn't listen to me (though I am not married and don't have kids, so I will be speaking hypothetically). Disobedience to what I asked would be the main issue. If there was a valid reason for not doing the dishes, then I think I will be reasonable and understanding as to why they didn't. But if they didn't do it because they were lazy or for another reason, then I would expect an apology and from them to for them to do the dishes. If they still don't want to do it (or admit their wrong), then we will have to go through the grievance system that Jesus set up in Matthew 18:15-17. This won't lead to a divorce of my wife or disowning my son, but it could expose a tension that goes deeper than just them doing the dishes; which could lead to a problem that causes them to be kicked out of the Church. I would be left with a choice: Do I follow my wife/child in their rebellion (like Adam followed Eve and ate the apple) or do I continue to follow God?

These troubles are one of the reason why Jesus said it would be better for us not to marry (Matthew 18:18-20).
 
Loyal Member
What then is the difference between Christianity and another God fearing religion? Do you divorce your spouse / disown your children if they stop doing the dishes?
Perhaps not for dishes, but certainly if they were unfaithful to me. Many people forsook God in the Bible, were unfaithful and worshipped other gods.
 
Active Member
All believers will have a love for Christ to some degree after they are saved. It all depends on how much they have experienced the love of Christ for them. Is it not the same with how much one knows the forgiveness of Christ. (Luke 7:42-48) Different degrees of love based on our experience with Christ..

But from the beginning we must know that God loves us. That is first. (John 4:10) "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us,...."

Knowing God loves me does more to keep me faithful towards him. Does more to encourage me to draw closer to Him. Can we not see this played out with Peter and John? Peter boasted of his loyalty to Christ. (Matt. 26:33) John was known as the disciple who Jesus loved. (John 13:23, 19:26, 20:2, 21:7, 21:20). In the end, at the cross, where are they to be found?

Peter has denied Him. Though all disciples forsook him at the first, John went back and is standing with Mary at the foot of the Cross. He went back to the One who loved him, and who he in turn, loved. (John 19:26)

Quantrill
 
Active Member
I am not sure what you are asking here? Do you mind rewording the question a different way please? Thanks.
The statement of yours I quoted pretty much said ''obey or get the boot'' This can be said of any / every religion. Why obey Christianity's rules when you may as well obey Islam's rules. What moves one to Christianity?

That seems like a pretty drastic step to take for not doing the dishes... What is the correlation between this question and what I shared in my above post?
You made the statement ''If we follow His commands, then we stay a part of His vine''. Washing dishes for your spouse takes self sacrifice. It is much like a ceremonial law for a Jew. Or a part of loving others as yourself for a Christian.

If we fail at loving others as ourselves, we fail at the commands, we get kicked out. That is an insane view of Christianity and quite literally 100% failure at grasping Christianity / what a Christian is.

To answer your second question: No I wouldn't do that to them not doing the dishes, but, I will question why they didn't listen to me (though I am not married and don't have kids, so I will be speaking hypothetically). Disobedience to what I asked would be the main issue. If there was a valid reason for not doing the dishes, then I think I will be reasonable and understanding as to why they didn't. But if they didn't do it because they were lazy or for another reason, then I would expect an apology and from them to for them to do the dishes. If they still don't want to do it (or admit their wrong), then we will have to go through the grievance system that Jesus set up in Matthew 18:15-17. This won't lead to a divorce of my wife or disowning my son, but it could expose a tension that goes deeper than just them doing the dishes; which could lead to a problem that causes them to be kicked out of the Church. I would be left with a choice: Do I follow my wife/child in their rebellion (like Adam followed Eve and ate the apple) or do I continue to follow God?
Thanks for this explanation. But you are reasoning like one under the law. You are then explaining what ''we'' do with someone who is in sin and very likely not a Christian when the subject is on what God would do, not us. You are miss-representing God and Christianity.

You are teaching a works based salvation. How are you not?
 
Active Member
Perhaps not for dishes, but certainly if they were unfaithful to me. Many people forsook God in the Bible, were unfaithful and worshipped other gods.
The context was ''no works = lose salvation''. The works was not specified. Are you making an argument for mortal sins? If so, I am glad you now see the difference between sin and sin.

Yet again however, you making the mistake of speaking on God's behalf and completely miss-representing Him.

''YOU'' would leave a spouse for unfaithfulness. God, would not join Himself with someone that would one-day be capable of such. You / me / we are dumb humans and make mistakes. God does not. Consider David. Did God make a mistake using and trusting someone like David? He was unfaithful (in that he committed mortal sins), but God knew his heart. Knew he would repent truthfully.

Question: Is God going to invite the devil back into heaven at some stage? If not, why?
 
Active Member
Good point. We don't have any "good" when we come to Jesus.

Which is the reason we come to him.
Where do you get that?

Just because scripture says our good works are like filthy rags, does not mean we don't have any ''good''. The context is as pertains to being guiltless of sin.

There was a separation between those who repented of sins (good) and those who did not (bad) in the OT in Hades.

God says James 4:8 ''draw near to me and I will draw near to you''. Drawing near to God = good. James 4:8 goes on to say stop wickedness.
Stopping wickedness = good. Hating what is wicked = good Rom 12:9. God chose Abraham because he was good. God chose David, because He was good. God chose Moses, because he was good. God chose you and I, because we were good.

All this ''we have no good'' is a line a Calvinist uses. Are you a Calvinist?
 

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