regibassman57 said:

@bibleguy,

You believe you've seen and proven contradictions in what I say. This is only because you cannot understand the information I've been presenting. I notice you believe you have been forgiven of your sins; but you still sin. The reason I can understand what you’re saying is because it’s no different than the Mosaic Covenant of Atonement for sins. You just believe Jesus paid the price for the penalty of sin and has taken away past and present sins. You do not believe that Jesus has atoned for all men’s sins “once for all” and “acquitted” and “absolved” man of their sins.

You believe New Covenant believers should continue acting as Old Covenant believers where sin is concerned; this is what you’ve been preaching from day one. I realize under the Old Covenant Israel was required to confess their sin, bring an offering to the priest and the priest would atone for the sins of the people. God would then cast their sins as far as the east is from the west. If they continued to sin, which they did, the process would just repeat itself. This is the gist of what you believe. Again, you believe New Covenant believers should do today. I disagree.

I already know you cannot find the scriptures I'm asking for, because it's not possible. I've pointed out over 10 scripture teaching that Jesus did much more than forgave man's sins.

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Hi!

And, the counter-argument (grounded in Scripture) which I've set before you proves that there MUST be something wrong with your viewpoint.

Here's the proof:

1. Regibassman57 claims he has Scriptures which confirms that regibassman57 does not sin.
2. Regibassman57 knows that he sometimes does what is wrong (not right). [from his confession]
3. Knowing what is right to do (and not doing it) is sin (Jas. 4:17).
4. Regibassman57 sometimes sins (from 2 and 3).

There you have it!

#2 and #3 and #4 are ALL TRUE!

But #1 and #4 are a CONTRADICTION.

Thus, Regibassman57's claim (in [HASH=655]#1)[/HASH] MUST BE FALSE!

Thus, there MUST be something wrong with regibassman57's viewpoint.

What am I supposed to do? Just IGNORE Jas 4:17 (like you do), and lay down and accept your theological viewpoint instead?

How could you ask anyone to do such a thing?

Should we not accept ALL Scripture?

Yet you give us no good reason for ignoring Jas. 4:17.

You can ignore Jas. 4:17 if you REALLY think you need to do so....but I think that's a bad choice. I think we should integrate ALL Biblical Scripture into our theological viewpoint.

And, of COURSE Jesus atoned for our sins (which we sometimes still commit).
And, of COURSE Jesus acquitted us of our sins (which we sometimes still commit).
And, of COURSE Jesus absolved us of our sins (which we sometimes sitll commit).

You wrote: "I've pointed out over 10 scripture teaching that Jesus did much more than forgave man's sins."

My response: Ok. Please list these 10 Scriptures for me, so that I can try to do a better job of explaining to you my claim that you have not properly harmonized them with Jas. 4:17.

Which 10 Scriptures are you talking about again?

Thanks.

blessings..

@Life,
God has not declared a believer Righteous/innocent of sin because the person does or has done any Righteous acts? God through His Mercy and Grace (Tit. 3:5) has imputed all man’s sins unto Jesus Christ and has imputed Righteousness unto all believers without their works (2Cor. 5:21; 1Pe.2:24; Isa. 53).

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that “not of yourselves”: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 “Not of works,” lest any man should boast.

We as believers cannot boast if we refrain from the term and action of sin, neither can we have the lack of faith if we are unfruitful and have committed unfruitful works. We by faith must believe what God has said about us, in His mind; HE has declared us Righteous. Can God see a believer in the light of anything else but Righteousness? No, God is not judging man’s works at this time and He sees them only through His eyes of faith (1Cor. 4:5; Heb. 11:1). One of the characteristics of God is Faith (Gal. 5:22, 23).

Did Abraham do any works for God to declare him Righteous?

Gen 15:6 And Abraham “believed in the LORD;” and God counted it to him for righteousness. (Rom. 4:1-4; 5:13).

Did Abraham sin in different ways and lie to the King and say Sarah was not his wife but his sister (Gen. 20:2)? Did Abraham sleep with Hagar and did God impute sin unto him for anything Abraham had the lack of faith for (Gen. 16:4; Rom. 4:6-8)?

Did God tell Abraham he was a father of many nations even though he did not have any children and Sarah was barren? Did Abraham “believe God” would make him a father of many nations though Sara was barren? Did God teach Abraham to call things which did not appear to make sense, as though they did (Rom. 4:17)? It’s the principle of what God teaches, not the simple reading of His words. Get wisdom, but with all you getting, get understanding (Pro. 4:7)

Is a God teaching a believer, He is not imputing sin unto them, as He did not impute sin unto Abraham?

@bibleguy,
I've already addressed Jam 4:17 with many other points i've made, As i've said, If you desire to continue to hold to your views, continue, I'm not trying to change your mind. This was a discussion initially.

You can go back in this post or other posts and read up on the 10.

regibassman57 said:

@JesusIs4Me,

I’m not making assumptions ....

If you can show me scripture where Jesus took away the penalty of sins without taking away sin under the old covenant or under the new, then I will change my view on sin. If you cannot show me what I’m asking for, you should change your view.

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How about the consequence for not looking unto the author & finisher of our faith in laying aside every weight & sin in running that race?

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.


They can't be unbelievers because if they do not have the Spirit of God, they are none of His. Romans 8:9 KJV

So it all boils down to what you build on that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ which can never be removed. If you sow to teh flesh, you will reap corruption and defiling the temple of God run the risk of being left behind to incur a physical death albeit the spirit is still saved in the day of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV ) when the Bridegroom comes. That is why the church at Thyatira in Revelation was warned to repent of her spiritual fornication or else be left behind to face the fire coming on the earth and the coming great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-29 KJV

So our salvation is not at risk because that foundation which Jesus Christ has laid, that seal of adoption, is not going anywhere, but not every saved believer will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes which is why the call to depart from iniquity goes out even to former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-21 KJV so that they too may be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House rather than later as castaways as vessels unto dishonor in His House.
So corruption can come when a saved believer sows to the flesh in reaping corruption.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Sin is still sin in the eyes of the Lord, but that is why He came to deliver us from our sins so that we shall no longer live in them.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. .....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

@JESUS4ME,
I believe just because you see the word sin, you think that's the principle. You don't understand "Faith" because you are not looking at God's words by faith.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I just wrote about faith above, but you consistantly reject faith and look at what you do carnally/physically; that's not faith. It would seem you had to read what i wrote above about Abraham. If you do not understand it, ask questions. It's okay not to understand some things, but why present information and not address the subject at hand?

@JesusIs4Me,
I wrote this eariler and posted it another page. "WALK BY FAITH"
The Atonement for sin was a “symbolic ritual” established by God, for man, to remove the sins of man’s iniquities. It was established for man that he might seek God’s will through faith for the cleansing of his sins in humility. Confessing his sins is his acknowledgment that he has committed a sinful act. Through the Atonement was a way for physical man to see immediate spiritual results for his sins.

Atonement is an act of presentation; it was the showing of Israel’s faith. The act of purification was for a person to be able to see an act taking place on his behalf for his wrong doings.

Atonement was a spiritual or mental release for man; if they believed by faith, that God has taken away their sins which also takes the mental weight of guilt away from their minds.

The sacrifices for sins were all symbolizations for the people and for God. There is no doubt that sins cannot be carried away like a burden, and taken off the shoulder of one person to be laid on another. The ceremony of Israel’s Atonement was a symbolic presentation, to impress upon men a certain idea, and to induce them to repent.

@JesusIs4Me,
This is the principle:
Jesus took your sins upon Himself, and gave you His Righteousness (2Co. 5:21; 1Pe.2:24). This is the Great Exchange. God can never take His Righteousness back until Judgment and you prove you did not have faith (Rom. 11:29)

You and many others believe the principle is:
Jesus took your past and present sins and gave you His Righteousness until the next time you sin. And when you sin, you must go through the ritual Old Covenant believers did of asking for forgiveness for your sins and repent. As oppose to repenting of you actions and learning to put on Christ knowing He's already forgiving you and released you from the nature of sin once for all (Rom. 11:24). 1John 1:8, 9 is talking to Jewish Unbelievers. Actually, the whole first chapter is talking to Jewish unbelievers.

What do you think this scripture is saying?

Col 2:11 In whom also "you are circumcised" with the circumcision made without hands, in "putting off the body" of the "sins of the flesh" by the circumcision of Christ:

@bibleguy,
Lets reconcile these scriptures:
This is the priciple understanding of sin in God's mind. I believe if these scriptures are reconciled, you will see and understand the answer you are looking for.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, "I had not known sin, but by the law": for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the "strength of sin is the law."

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that "knows to do good", and "does it not," to him "it is sin."

Rom 4:15 Because the law works wrath: for "where no law is," "there is no transgression."

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever commits "sin transgresses also the law": for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:6 But now "we are delivered from the law," that "being dead" wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever "the law said", it saith to them who are "under the law": that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (What does James 4:17 say?)

Rom 3:20 Therefore "by the deeds of the law" there shall "no flesh be justified (made righteous)" in his sight: for "by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Rom 6:14 For "sin shall not have dominion over you": for "you are not under the law", but under grace.

The Book of 1 John was about believers who think that when they sin, it is not sin any more.

regibassman57 said:

@JESUS4ME,
I believe just because you see the word sin, you think that's the principle. You don't understand "Faith" because you are not looking at God's words by faith.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I just wrote about faith above, but you consistantly reject faith and look at what you do carnally/physically; that's not faith. It would seem you had to read what i wrote above about Abraham. If you do not understand it, ask questions. It's okay not to understand some things, but why present information and not address the subject at hand?

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How does iron sharpen iron works for you? Only one way as only coming from you?

If I point out a verse "Jesus wept" and make a whole doctrine on it as to show how much a sissy Jesus is and not a man, you would be able to prove me wrong just by showing the scriptural reference of Him whipping the thieves out of the Temple.

Jesus is our constant Mediator right now because we are not perfect yet, and so you cannot say no saved believer can ever sin, nor can you make a whole doctrine of it by citing as if by paying the ransom for our sins which is death on the cross so that by believing in Him we have eternal life by His resurrection, that means sin no longer exist in the life of any "true" believer. You do so at the expense of other scripture testifying to the contrary and void the message by Paul about running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith in helping us to lay aside every weight & sin as testified in the chapter in Hebrews 12:1-2 KJV after your reference of Hebrews 11:1.

Your verse Hebrews 11:1 is applied only per your belief , and although you have taken other verses out of context to suit your personal belief, the Book of 1 John 2:1-2 KJV clearly reproves what you are teaching that if any believer sins, they have an Advocate. You do not have John teaching us to walk in the light as He has done whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin presently and ongoing as we live our lives in Him where we can even confess our sins to Him; 1 John 1:3-9

Scripture cannot go against scripture and that is the only way you can prove with Him whether or not you are understanding the truth in His words that agrees with the rest of scripture as no lie can be of the truth.

So the penalty of sin which is the second death, has been paid for and no believer is at risk for losing salvation, but to say that we have no need for Jesus as our Mediator nor any need to run that race by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to abide in Him & in His words is not what the scripture in the N.T. is saying at all.

regibassman57 said:

@JesusIs4Me,
This is the principle:
Jesus took your sins upon Himself, and gave you His Righteousness (2Co. 5:21; 1Pe.2:24). This is the Great Exchange. God can never take His Righteousness back until Judgment and you prove you did not have faith (Rom. 11:29)

You and many others believe the principle is:
Jesus took your past and present sins and gave you His Righteousness until the next time you sin. And when you sin, you must go through the ritual Old Covenant believers did of asking for forgiveness for your sins and repent. As oppose to repenting of you actions and learning to put on Christ knowing He's already forgiving you and released you from the nature of sin once for all (Rom. 11:24). 1John 1:8, 9 is talking to Jewish Unbelievers. Actually, the whole first chapter is talking to Jewish unbelievers.

What do you think this scripture is saying?

Col 2:11 In whom also "you are circumcised" with the circumcision made without hands, in "putting off the body" of the "sins of the flesh" by the circumcision of Christ:

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Salvation in Jesus Christ is one thing, and that is the most glorious deed, but what you build on that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ will be judged. 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV And God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV )

Not every believer will take heed by what they build on that foundation; some will not take heed about NOT sowing to the works of the flesh whereby they shall reap corruption.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

We have been reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ; but not every saved believer will continue to live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ just as not every saved believer will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Though they run the risk of being left behind, they are still saved as their spirits will be with the Lord in death as promised and they shall be resurrected as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation, because they are still His.

@JesusIs4Me,
I agree that believers must build on the foundation of Christ bring forth good fruit; which is Christ's character.
I agree that every believer will not build correctly and will be disciplined.
However, those believers that do not abide in Christ will not be resurrected, but they shall die in the furnace of fire.

As you said, the church will be judged first (1Pe. 4:17,18). This is what Matthew 13:41 and 42 is speaking about.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather "out of his kingdom" (the body of Christ) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall "cast them into a furnace of fire"; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for "many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in", and "shall not be able."

JesusIs4Me,
What do you think this verse is saying?

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

regibassman57 said:

@JesusIs4Me,
I agree that believers must build on the foundation of Christ bring forth good fruit; which is Christ's character.
I agree that every believer will not build correctly and will be disciplined.
However, those believers that do not abide in Christ will not be resurrected, but they shall die in the furnace of fire.

As you said, the church will be judged first (1Pe. 4:17,18). This is what Matthew 13:41 and 42 is speaking about.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather "out of his kingdom" (the body of Christ) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall "cast them into a furnace of fire"; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for "many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in", and "shall not be able."

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Let' me ask you this: what fire is this mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:13 KJV whereby that believer's soul is still saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15 KJV ?

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So what if that furnace of fire is not hell or the lake of fire that you deem that to be? Could it be the Refiner's fire? Or could it be referring to the fiery judgment coming on the earth where physical death is the result but the spirit is still saved as those who die shall be present with the Lord for He is with us always as promised thereby we shall be with Him forever, albeit, not every saved believer will be abiding in Him to participate at the Marriage Supper.

So that foundation laid by Jesus Christ remains; only the works on it is judged and burned up if it is unrepentant iniquity that defiles the temple of God. So in now way could furnace of fire means hell or the lake of fire, but I suspect the Refiner's fire will burn off that which will not be taken to Heaven, but the furnace of fire may be that fiery judgment that will fall on the earth whereby saints will die a physical death but their spirits will be present with the Lord until their resurrection day after the great tribulation.

@JesusIs4Me,

I believe that God is the consuming fire and He will try everyman’s work according to how we’ve built upon the foundation of Christ (Heb.12:28, 29). I believe God has been trying our faith daily through the fire of temptation since we’ve been born again (1Pe. 1:7; 4:12, 13). We’ve been told not to love the world neither the things that are in the world; if any man love the world the love of God is not operating in them (1Joh. 2:15-17).

If a believer’s work is not burnt up, I believe it’s because they love the world and their heart is vested in the things of the world through the cares and riches of this life; they have not died to the world (Mat. 13:22). These will receive a reward, but I believe their reward is condemnation (Rev. 22:12). They have not abided in Christ obediently so their reward will be death (Joh. 15:6).

I believe if we’ve abided in Christ obediently, building upon His foundation of Righteousness, every worldly possession we’ve had in this life will be burnt up through the fire of God, because we didn’t allow ourselves to love this world. We shall suffer loss but we ourselves shall be saved through the fiery judgment of God.

There are two rewards here, one is the reward of life, and the other is the reward of death. One loved the world, and the other died to the world.

These verses are also debatable on the exact meaning.

The reason I know the furnace of fire is the lake of fire is the confirmation of scriptures. (Mat. 13:49, 50). There is one judgment; death and hell will give up the dead that are in it and at that time they will be judged and afterwards cast into the lake of fire. God will not cast a person into the Lake or furnace of fire before they are judged. There is only one white throne judgment for man. Death and Hell will give up the souls that are in them and they shall be judged (Mat. 25:41; Rev. 20:12-15). Who's ever names are not written in the book of life shall be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:15).

regibassman57 said:

@JesusIs4Me,

I believe that God is the consuming fire and He will try everyman’s work according to how we’ve built upon the foundation of Christ (Heb.12:28, 29). I believe God has been trying our faith daily through the fire of temptation since we’ve been born again (1Pe. 1:7; 4:12, 13). We’ve been told not to love the world neither the things that are in the world; if any man love the world the love of God is not operating in them (1Joh. 2:15-17).

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Although true, that does not mean Jesus Christ is not in them but that they are not abiding in Him and His words in being fruitful as His disciples so that their joy may be full.

If a believer’s work is not burnt up, I believe it’s because they love the world and their heart is vested in the things of the world through the cares and riches of this life; they have not died to the world (Mat. 13:22).

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Actually, it is the works that deny Him that are burned up by Him that God is judging that believer for being of the world in removing those things that offends Him off of that permanent foundation which was laid by Christ Jesus.

That which remains is not burned up, but is His workmanship that shall be manifested in Heaven as He shall be glorified in them for His work alone.

That which needs to be burned up signifies the temple of God has been defiled by unrepentant iniquity for why that believer is left behind to incur a physical death while his spirit shall be present with the Lord.

These will receive a reward, but I believe their reward is condemnation (Rev. 22:12). They have not abided in Christ obediently so their reward will be death (Joh. 15:6).

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That condemnation is not a reward but a loss. That is why the parable of the prodigal son exists because although he gave up his inheritance for wild living and can never get it back ... he is still son, and yet the elder son has everything that the father has which is signifying it is not the same for the prodigal son although he has returned.

I believe if we’ve abided in Christ obediently, building upon His foundation of Righteousness, every worldly possession we’ve had in this life will be burnt up through the fire of God, because we didn’t allow ourselves to love this world. We shall suffer loss but we ourselves shall be saved through the fiery judgment of God.

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We are to abide in Him with His help and in leaning on Him to give up everything in this life when the Bridegroom comes, but that is not what 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 is talking about per works that gets burned up when those works defile the temple of God for why they are destroyed with physical death when left behind after the rapture event. Those works that gets burned up that defile the temple of God can only be works of the flesh; and hardly the things possessed in the world

There are two rewards here, one is the reward of life, and the other is the reward of death. One loved the world, and the other died to the world.

These verses are also debatable on the exact meaning.

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Again.. when the works that defile the temple of God gets burned up, there is a loss of reward that comes along with physical death. There are two inheritances and they are how we are received by Him; as a vessel unto honor or as a vessel unto dishonor. 2 Timothy 2:18-21 is a reference that shows why the call to depart from iniquity is given even to former beievers because they still have His seal; that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is not going anywhere; Ephesians 4:30

The reason I know the furnace of fire is the lake of fire is the confirmation of scriptures. (Mat. 13:49, 50). There is one judgment; death and hell will give up the dead that are in it and at that time they will be judged and afterwards cast into the lake of fire. God will not cast a person into the Lake or furnace of fire before they are judged. There is only one white throne judgment for man. Death and Hell will give up the souls that are in them and they shall be judged (Mat. 25:41; Rev. 20:12-15). Who's ever names are not written in the book of life shall be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:15).

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You should reconsider applying Matthew 13:49-50 to Revelation 20:15 as meaning the same thing since no one can lose their salvation as promised in John 6:39-40 and yet not every one will be received as a vessel unto honor in His House. Do look at and discern with Him Luke 12:40-49 as that furnace of fire that is coming on the earth and yet He still calls those left behind as cut off from Him ( excommunicated ) as His servants still in receiving their stripes for implying their reception later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House of their resurrection after the great tribulation.

@JesusIs4Me

The Gospel's been preached unto you, but will you believe it unto the end? You do not know because you walk by faith and have no knowledge of the future. Faith is a day by day walk.

1 Corinthians 15:1
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2
By which also ye are saved, "IF"ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

We are saved by faith, "IF"your faith passes the test of trying you will be saved. If your faith does not you will not be saved. Just because you say you believe is one thing; but you will know when you go through the trails and tribulations obediently. God is judging to see if you are obedient. And He will judge you in that day He judges His Church and tell you if you've been obedient. As I've shown you in scripture, God will gather out of His body those that are without proper faith (Mat.13:41).

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

We are not judged until the end to see if we truly believed, and at the end you will know if you truly believed or did not abide in Christ as He's told you. You must learn to endure in correct faith until the end in order to be a partaker with Christ and obtain Eternal Life.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence (faith) stedfast unto the end;

If a believer does not abide correctly in Christ in obedience, they will be carnal Christians who are lukewarm. If you bring forth the character of Christ you will be saved; if not you will not (Mat. 13:19-50).

Revelation 3:15
I know thy works, that thou are neither cold nor hot: I wish thou were cold or hot.
Revelation 3:16
So then because thou are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

regibassman57 said:

@JesusIs4Me

The Gospel's been preached unto you, but will you believe it unto the end? You do not know because you walk by faith and have no knowledge of the future. Faith is a day by day walk.

1 Corinthians 15:1
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2
By which also ye are saved, "IF"ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

We are saved by faith, "IF"your faith passes the test of trying you will be saved. If your faith does not you will not be saved. Just because you say you believe is one thing; but you will know when you go through the trails and tribulations obediently. God is judging to see if you are obedient. And He will judge you in that day He judges His Church and tell you if you've been obedient. As I've shown you in scripture, God will gather out of His body those that are without proper faith (Mat.13:41).

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

We are not judged until the end to see if we truly believed, and at the end you will know if you truly believed or did not abide in Christ as He's told you. You must learn to endure in correct faith until the end in order to be a partaker with Christ and obtain Eternal Life.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence (faith) stedfast unto the end;

If a believer does not abide correctly in Christ in obedience, they will be carnal Christians who are lukewarm. If you bring forth the character of Christ you will be saved; if not you will not (Mat. 13:19-50).

Revelation 3:15
I know thy works, that thou are neither cold nor hot: I wish thou were cold or hot.
Revelation 3:16
So then because thou are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

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I suggest that you read those verses in the KJV because the ESV does imply you are in the process of being saved for why you are believing in that way, but the KJV declares you are saved as per 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV when compared to 1 Corinthians 1:18 that this forum is using for showing the reference.

Also, some references in the KJV of paraphrasing "enduring in the end shall be saved" are referring to what is coming on the earth when read in context about God's judgment of fire; a global calamity that will burn away one third of the earth in Revelation as Peter spoke of it in his second epistle in 2 Peter 3:3-13 as Jesus did too in Luke 21:33-36 & Luke 12:40-49.

@JesusIs4Me,

That is the King James version. I do not read from anything other than the Kjv while reading. You are saved by faith and must continue in the faith to be saved (1Cor. 1:23).

We can only reap Eternal Life if we do not give up or faint in our faith.

Galatians 6:9
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, "if we faint not."

If you are not obedient in faith to Christ He will not grant you life.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

If a person calls themselves a believer and are not keeping God's commandments, they will not have right to life.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

If by faith you do not hold fast letting God's word remain in you and you abiding in Christ, you can lose the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

We through hope continue to believe by faith we can be obedient to God's word; which if we are, we shall be saved. If we give up hope, we shall die.

Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for?
Romans 8:25
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

JessusIs4Me,
If a believer says they sin, are they saying they are yet in their sin?

I believe this is an important question.

regibassman57 said:

@JesusIs4Me,

That is the King James version. I do not read from anything other than the Kjv while reading. You are saved by faith and must continue in the faith to be saved (1Cor. 1:23).

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That verse you referenced does not say you have to continue in faith in order to be saved.

2 Timothy 2:13 speaks of the salvation of the former believer in Jesus Christ in that although he believes not ... Jesus still abides in Him 2 Timothy 2:13

That is why the call to depart from iniquity is given even to former believers so that they may be received as vessel unto honor in His House by departing from that iniquity of unbelief 2 Timothy 2:18-21

We can only reap Eternal Life if we do not give up or faint in our faith.

Galatians 6:9
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, "if we faint not."

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The firstfruits of the resurrection aka the vessels unto honor is how those abiding in Christ shall be made higher than the angels that can never die and will not marry nor be given in marriage and have a place in the city of God in Heaven ( which said city will come down after the great tribulation, whereas the vessels unto dishonor will not have the power of the second death over them, as they will marry again and have children in raising up the coming generations during the millennium reign of Christ as they are spread out all over the world where there is no longer any sea in serving the King of kings.

So there is much reward in enduring in the end by keeping the faith in Jesus Christ which is the good fight as trusting Him to help you to follow Him is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection..

If you are not obedient in faith to Christ He will not grant you life.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

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Granted, the first inheritance of being like the angels that can never die is better than the one those left behind shall inherit as they will need to eat from the tree of life, but the ones with His seal that gets left behind will eventallu be free of death and sin at the very end when Christ cast it into the lake of fire.

If a person calls themselves a believer and are not keeping God's commandments, they will not have right to life.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

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That is for those coming out of the great tribulation and the millennium reign of Christ. Look at the promise for those worthy of that pre great trib rapture event.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

They do not have to go through the physical gates of the city to eat from the tree of life to live forever.

If by faith you do not hold fast letting God's word remain in you and you abiding in Christ, you can lose the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:24
Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

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No, you will not lose them. It just simply means you will not continue in the Son and in the Father in receiving their eternal inheritance in Heaven when they were supposed to be in living that reconciled relationship with God on earth.

God still abides in those wayward unrepentant saints and former believers that get left behind. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House. They do not have a place in the city of God but they have a place in the kingdom of God on earth.

We through hope continue to believe by faith we can be obedient to God's word; which if we are, we shall be saved. If we give up hope, we shall die.

Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for?
Romans 8:25
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

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You are saying something beyond what the scriptural references you are citing has said.

Plus; IF you believe keeping the sabbath day holy is required for you to be saved, then you are at risk of being left behind because you are denying Jesus as your Saviour when you had been saved simply for believing in Him.

There is no way for you to tell people that Jesus is your Saviour if you believe you are not really saved yet. That would be considered a false witness.

Jesus is Lord of the sabbath for why believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day as Matthew 12:1-7 has Jesus citing 2 times in the O.T. where saints did profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the Temple, and then He said One greater than the Temple was here, meaning Himself for why His disciples were guiltless. Indeed, Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) and our bodies become the temple of the Holy Spirit ( 2 Corinthians 6:19-20 ) for why ALL believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because Jesus Christ in us is able to make us stand.

You need to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus for help in understanding His words in the KJV because salvation is not at risk, but our first inheritance in Heaven is if we are not abiding in Him. You need to trust Him to deliver you from every evil work if you are to come to that rest in Jesus Christ that you had been saved when you had first come to & believed in Him to be saved. Scripture testify that saved, but unrepentant believers not abiding in Him will not be saved from the fiery judgment coming on the earth, but they are saved for Him to resurrect them after the great tribulation as the prodigal son will lose out of his inheritance but find that he is still son. John 6:39-40