RJ said:

Obviously we share nothing in common, the only thing pedantic here is that I grow weary of you. Have a great day and God bless your spiritual growth.

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Grow as weary as you wish. I faith in myself having no faith in anyone pushing / abusing scripture to insinuate a positive thinking style faith is something God wants of us. It is borderline satanism, can't you see that...? I pray you do someday.

Thiscrosshurts said:

God is not a drunken schizophrenic father,God is love.

Does love change?
Does God change?
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God does not sleep so he does not wake up.
God is spirit and he is one.

God is love so love is all there is to know.
Knowledge is knowing.
Jesus is the word not words.
words are needed to describe difference due to the belief in separation.

If God is one there is no separation in him.
One love does not need description because there is no difference to describe.
If I live in him and he lives in me then there is no separation unless

I don't believe we are one and that would force God to separate from me to conform to my beliefs.

Love does not demand it's own way so God is patient.
Love never fails so he will find a way, even inventing words to communicate with someone who believes in separation.

Jesus is God and God is love so Jesus is love who invites us to love the one love in truth and in spirit.
Love is all there is so he who loves perfectly knows all.
That's why we need no man teach us because the spirit reminds of of all things which is one thing.

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I do not disagree with what you are saying here. We just need to understand that we will forever be a creation. We will never have confidence in God's word like He does. If we could grasp God, we would be God. A creation will forever live off God. Forever trust and hope in God. Forever be at His mercy. I am not saying this is bad of God. It is just the way it is. We can be grateful that God is indeed a good God.

Situations / tests all remind us that God's word is true. This is the case now and I don't see it ever changing. As I said, we are forever a creation. We will always be grateful when we see God's mercy in action.

We assume heaven is going to be a perfect place. But I don't. I see us still with problems in heaven. We are going to judge angels, they are greater creations then us and already in this perfect spiritual state. The only reason we will eternally be kept is because of Jesus's blood sealing us. Think of James 5:20. The decision to accept Jesus covers all lessor evils we will ever do. We will do them I believe. I don't see us all getting on with each other for all eternity. I envision us having more issues then angels as we are lessor creations. But perhaps a discussion for another thread.

RJ said:

Obviously we share nothing in common, the only thing pedantic here is that I grow weary of you. Have a great day and God bless your spiritual growth.

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How do you teach belief?

Do you teach that we must just believe in Jesus? Or do you teach that we must believe Jesus is Lord. Believe Jesus can save us. As the devils believe in Jesus James 2:19. The devils also have faith in God keeping to their punishment. Must we grow our '''belief''?

Belief and faith are slightly different.

I can believe in something without having much faith in it.
I can believe Ford is better than Chevy, but I might buy a Chevy "just in case".
I can believe the Packers are better than the Patriots, but I might bet on the Patriots "just in case".
That's an extreme example.

This might be a little more realistic.
God can heal the flu or a cold, but He can't heal cancer or multiple sclerosis.
God can take care of my finances for a month if I lose my job, but not for a year or two.
God might save my cousin Brian (because he's not too bad of a person) but God can never
save my cousin Rufus (because he is so bad, nothing can change him).

Sometimes faith does grow. In the sense that things I believed God could do had limits on them.
(my limits, not His). But over the years He has demonstrated He can do things beyond what I
limited Him to be able to do. I have more faith in Him than I did 20 years ago.
Not because I believe He is God more than he was 20 years ago. But because I trust Him to take
care of me more than I did 20 years ago.

KingJ said:

Grow as weary as you wish. I faith in myself having no faith in anyone pushing / abusing scripture to insinuate a positive thinking style faith is something God wants of us. It is borderline satanism, can't you see that...? I pray you do someday.

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I'm sorry but you are delusional.

KingJ said:

How do you teach belief?

Do you teach that we must just believe in Jesus? Or do you teach that we must believe Jesus is Lord. Believe Jesus can save us. As the devils believe in Jesus James 2:19. The devils also have faith in God keeping to their punishment. Must we grow our '''belief''?

Click to expand...

I have seen you here many times but don't recall having a conversation. From the beginning of this thread you have been on the attack against me; for what reason I can only think to self aggrandize yourself. It is not warranted or appreciated. We are supposed to be brothers. My faith is in Jesus Christ, that he lives and will finish his great work in me in me. And no superfluous garbage that comes from you can change that, go away from me Satan!

KingJ said:

We assume heaven is going to be a perfect place. But I don't. I see us still with problems in heaven. We are going to judge angels, they are greater creations then us and already in this perfect spiritual state. The only reason we will eternally be kept is because of Jesus's blood sealing us.

Click to expand...

I follow you but you are referring to a level above this one where there is less separation and yes there is still work to be done.
That's like coming out of wilderness back to the field.
However that level is just another illusion.
The level above that is closer still to reality,that seems like back to garden
However that level is just another illusion.

When we sleep we see objects and people and land with hills and water and we usually how no clue that we are tromping around in ourselves.
Even gravity seems to pull in the right direction.When we fall off something we feel the acceleration.
I remember in a dream my car turned into a bicycle and I thought "hey wasn't I driving a car?",then a newly created memory entered my mind with a backstory of where my car was and how I got on the bicycle.I would have believed it but by then I was driving a cardboard box down the road and thought,"now this is strange".

The people we encounter are fabricated(we fabricate,only God creates) by our minds and they are just projections of different parts of ourselves being what we expect them to be.I may fabricate good and evil people but they are just me.

I might sent assassins to kill myself and flee in fear of myself.
When I awake I realize that it never happened and I was never in any real danger at any time.
In me they lived and moved and had their being.

In the level of alleged reality I wake up into there is the bible which tells me that in him we live and move and have our being.

God is eternal,one and whole within himself,lacking nothing.
Eternal can not change,if it could it would not be eternal.

The heaven you were referring to is not eternal because there are more than one.
There was only one man in the garden,until he was made male and female,but still one man(the two shall be one).
After the expulsion one would rule(Lord) over the other and in the field they would produce the many(crops).
It's possible that we come back to God in reverse order and undoing the error introduced at each level.
The heaven with much work yet to be done may be the field where all the enemies of Jesus are made his footstool.
Paul spoke of a third heaven where he could not discern whether he was in a body or not.God knows.

I'll cut to the end
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jesus with all the sons of God intact,hands all authority back to the Father and we all take one final step into eternity.
So that God may be all in all. One!

Of course we can't ever begin eternity so it was all just smoke and mirrors.
Sometimes God needs to act like our illusion is real because he knows that it is real to us.
That's why he descended into the wildness to communicate with us on our level and wake the spirit within to cause us to remember who we really are.God was always near,even in our mouth.

This explanation is the only way I can make all scripture fit together,I rejected it when it began to be revealed to me 20 years ago.
My carnal mind still calls me a heretic,so I'm not insulted if you think me insane.

Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

KingJ said:

Situations / tests all remind us that God's word is true. This is the case now and I don't see it ever changing. As I said, we are forever a creation. We will always be grateful when we see God's mercy in action.

Click to expand...

Love does not demand its own way,God honors our beliefs and will meet us at any level of understanding we begin to seek.
I'm not talking about faith,I'm talking about the other side of endurance.

But if in the end God is all in all then it was so at the beginning and it has never been any different because time,space and difference are an illusion..Adam(man) Honoured the illusion and nurtured it and it grew ever more puffed up leading further to fragmentation.
his desire for control in a garden led to less control in a field and even less control in the wilderness.

Thiscrosshurts said:

Love does not demand its own way,God honors our beliefs and will meet us at any level of understanding we begin to seek.
I'm not talking about faith,I'm talking about the other side of endurance.

But if in the end God is all in all then it was so at the beginning and it has never been any different because time,space and difference are an illusion..Adam(man) Honoured the illusion and nurtured it and it grew ever more puffed up leading further to fragmentation.
his desire for control in a garden led to less control in a field and even less control in the wilderness.

Click to expand...

TCH please tell me what 'God is all in all' means to you. Time and space are not an illusion, but they are temporary.

RJ said:

I have seen you here many times but don't recall having a conversation. From the beginning of this thread you have been on the attack against me; for what reason I can only think to self aggrandize yourself. It is not warranted or appreciated. We are supposed to be brothers. My faith is in Jesus Christ, that he lives and will finish his great work in me in me. And no superfluous garbage that comes from you can change that, go away from me Satan!

Click to expand...

I have not been singling you out. You are taking things too personally. I asked of all 'what faith' they are referring too.

I have read many of your posts and mostly agree with you on things. I have always had respect for you on this site. I think you need to re-read my posts here.

We qualify ''belief'' when we teach it. We must believe in Jesus. We must believe He is Lord. But we do not qualify faith? We leave it open ended. Why is that?

Bendito said:

TCH please tell me what 'God is all in all' means to you. Time and space are not an illusion, but they are temporary.

Click to expand...

It's not easy to explain but these verses are a good place to start.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
John 17:2 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one

Keep in mind the definition of eternal=no beginning ,no end,always was and will be.
God does not change because he is eternal spirit,any change would require a beginning of something new.
So we technically can't ever be one with the eternal God unless we already were.
Somewhere it says God will not share his glory with another but he is sharing it with us.
What's up with that?

The angels in heaven are many so that is not where we experience being one.
God is love and in love we can experience one.

This verse speaks of the very last thing done in the creation.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

John chapter 17 has much more on this subject

B-A-C said:

Belief and faith are slightly different.

I can believe in something without having much faith in it.
I can believe Ford is better than Chevy, but I might buy a Chevy "just in case".
I can believe the Packers are better than the Patriots, but I might bet on the Patriots "just in case".
That's an extreme example.

This might be a little more realistic.
God can heal the flu or a cold, but He can't heal cancer or multiple sclerosis.
God can take care of my finances for a month if I lose my job, but not for a year or two.
God might save my cousin Brian (because he's not too bad of a person) but God can never
save my cousin Rufus (because he is so bad, nothing can change him).

Sometimes faith does grow. In the sense that things I believed God could do had limits on them.
(my limits, not His). But over the years He has demonstrated He can do things beyond what I
limited Him to be able to do. I have more faith in Him than I did 20 years ago.
Not because I believe He is God more than he was 20 years ago. But because I trust Him to take
care of me more than I did 20 years ago.

Click to expand...

Agree completely and especially with the underlined. Your faith is in God being good.

KingJ said:

I have not been singling you out. You are taking things too personally. I asked of all 'what faith' they are referring too.

I have read many of your posts and mostly agree with you on things. I have always had respect for you on this site. I think you need to re-read my posts here.

We qualify ''belief'' when we teach it. We must believe in Jesus. We must believe He is Lord. But we do not qualify faith? We leave it open ended. Why is that?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I have no further response to you! God Bless you and your future spiritual growth.

KingJ said:

I have not been singling you out. You are taking things too personally. I asked of all 'what faith' they are referring too.

Click to expand...

I appreciate your scrutiny and any others here who spend timing digging in the word.

We get depth perception using two eyes that are close but not in the same exact position.
We get better directional perception with two ears perceiving in opposite directions.
We move forward by shifting our body to two extremes.Neither in the direction we desire to go.

We build muscle using opposition and stress to the point of exhaustion.
It's the tearing down that causes the building up to a higher mass and density.
As long as there is sufficient nutrients and proper periods of rest the muscle gets stronger for longer.

This is my test track,out there I am dealing with hurting,misinformed,drowning,large children who will drown me out of fear.
They are not trying to push me down,they don't even see me,no-out of fear they are trying to lift themselves out by climbing upon my stability.
My brother is drowning and I can't just watch anymore,I'll be sad.
I need to be stable for them.
I need to get them to a stable platform.
I found one but I need my brothers help to get him to follow me to the platform.
Who is my brother,I told you he is drowning,do you see anyone drowning?

I am not strong enough to swim for them and myself ,so the best I can do is to get them to hear me and maybe I can teach them how to swim.Then my brother might be able to follow me to the platform.
I can't stop trying to walk on water because I could help many more and do what Jesus did for Peter.
I don't have the convenience of believing I can never be like Jesus.

As far as I can see,I have found that every response is either a call from love or a call to love.
I can really only say two things:
I love you
Please love me,please show me love exists.

KingJ said:

I have read many of your posts and mostly agree with you on things. I have always had respect for you on this site. I think you need to re-read my posts here.

Click to expand...

Hey,nobody picks on my little brother but me.

P.S. That was attempted humor
I don't like using LoL because I am not actually laughing out loud.
I don't like saying haha or teehee because I feel it comes of a bit creepy.
I just can't seem to bring myself to use an emoticon,i'm not sure why.

We are just all playing interchangeable roles.
Anyway if I have to tell you it's humor it probably isn't really funny.
My point is since we can't see facial expression or body language we have a disadvantage.
However that gives us a cool advantage in that we are not judging each other by facial expression or body language.
But I'm sure you are just responding out of love or searching for some.

Thiscrosshurts said:

It's not easy to explain but these verses are a good place to start.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
John 17:2 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one

Keep in mind the definition of eternal=no beginning ,no end,always was and will be.
God does not change because he is eternal spirit,any change would require a beginning of something new.
So we technically can't ever be one with the eternal God unless we already were.
Somewhere it says God will not share his glory with another but he is sharing it with us.
What's up with that?

The angels in heaven are many so that is not where we experience being one.
God is love and in love we can experience one.

This verse speaks of the very last thing done in the creation.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

John chapter 17 has much more on this subject

Click to expand...

hmmmm Well how about explaining it like this....He is all we need in all situations.
1 Corinthians 15:28 (CJB)
28 Now when everything has been subjected to the Son, then he will subject himself to God, who subjected everything to him; so that God may be everything in everyone. He is the Great I AM...as in Do you need salvation? That's the I AM that I AM..Need healing? That's the I AM that I AM...Do you need deliverance from any bondage? That's the I AM that I AM...Whatever you need, that's the I AM that I AM... He is all my provision in all situations I face.

Really guys...You're fighting like a couple of ten year old kids...And not even on subject....
The thread is about Faith teaching..not your emotions and how they hurt....

Thiscrosshurts said:

I appreciate your scrutiny and any others here who spend timing digging in the word.

We get depth perception using two eyes that are close but not in the same exact position.
We get better directional perception with two ears perceiving in opposite directions.
We move forward by shifting our body to two extremes.Neither in the direction we desire to go.

We build muscle using opposition and stress to the point of exhaustion.
It's the tearing down that causes the building up to a higher mass and density.
As long as there is sufficient nutrients and proper periods of rest the muscle gets stronger for longer.

This is my test track,out there I am dealing with hurting,misinformed,drowning,large children who will drown me out of fear.
They are not trying to push me down,they don't even see me,no-out of fear they are trying to lift themselves out by climbing upon my stability.
My brother is drowning and I can't just watch anymore,I'll be sad.
I need to be stable for them.
I need to get them to a stable platform.
I found one but I need my brothers help to get him to follow me to the platform.
Who is my brother,I told you he is drowning,do you see anyone drowning?

I am not strong enough to swim for them and myself ,so the best I can do is to get them to hear me and maybe I can teach them how to swim.Then my brother might be able to follow me to the platform.
I can't stop trying to walk on water because I could help many more and do what Jesus did for Peter.
I don't have the convenience of believing I can never be like Jesus.

As far as I can see,I have found that every response is either a call from love or a call to love.
I can really only say two things:
I love you
Please love me,please show me love exists.

Click to expand...

You sound like a writer / poet I am guessing you are a teacher...?

''I can't stop trying to walk on water because I could help many more and do what Jesus did for Peter.''

This kind of thinking is false imho. Walking on water will help nobody, least of all God. God does not want us to use our faith to do miracles. Moving a mountain requires faith of a ridiculously tiny mustard seed / no faith. God wants us to help Him with the complications involved in getting someone to actually love Him. For this He needs us on 'their' level. Not walking on water (mostly).

Thiscrosshurts said:

My point is since we can't see facial expression or body language we have a disadvantage. However that gives us a cool advantage in that we are not judging each other by facial expression or body language.

Click to expand...

This is very true. It is also so easy to just type something nasty. The best of us can be guilty of this. There is a disconnect between reality and the internet. However, putting our faces on our avatar as RJ has done, makes this more of a reality. Kudo's to anyone who does that. I can't do it yet. I get in too many arguments :whistle.

KingJ said:

This is very true. It is also so easy to just type something nasty. The best of us can be guilty of this. There is a disconnect between reality and the internet. However, putting our faces on our avatar as RJ has done, makes this more of a reality. Kudo's to anyone who does that. I can't do it yet. I get in too many arguments :whistle.

Click to expand...

So easy answer ....dont do it anymore. I just had to kj. It was there taughting me to. It would not stop. Rofl......
Peace to you.......