Word of Faith.....Again

[RJ]

RJ,
You have what God saying about "Law" confused and running together. Your quote is talking about the old and now destroyed law that some still tried to live by. That is not the laws of God today or kingdom law that I was speaking about.

Brother as long as you "dont see" then yea I agree it wont be happening in your life. The works of faith are simply actions. Corresponding Actions will always follow Faith or rather NEED to follow after faith. You can not simply say I have faith and think you believe and it is done.

James

I am NOT calling you a Liberal but, our comparison is the same. I am a conservative and I have long sense given up on understanding / agreeing with a Liberal and have come to a cross road, where we can now only agree to disagree. Such is with us, there is nothing wrong with my faith, Christ lives in me despite my imperfection; we don't see this the same and we just will have to agree to disagree

 

[RJ]

@RJ You are comparing our ability to obey the law to our faith. What faith are you comparing it too? You imply we will always have shaky faith as we never obey the law 100%. What faith will be shaky?

I am not too clear where you get the term "shaky".

• My faith is not "shaky" as you imply.
• My point with faith is, like anything about us, it is imperfect. Our imperfection is determined by God alone and whether it be "shacky" or not, is determined by him and to what degree is determined by the individual. 1 Corinthians 13:10 (KJV) But when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away . Our perfection is yet to come. The point I see here is that, being a Born Again Christian, with Christ in us, God over looks our imperfections but credits us with Christ's perfection. Each of us personally, will not be perfect until we die and go to heaven.
  
• I make no comparison to the law. The Law is perfect and we are not. We are not capable of fulfilling the law as an individual but, with Christ in us, He fulfills the law through us.....God doesn't call us righteous personally, he credits us with Christ's righteousness in us. Jesus said that he did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it; he does this by getting inside us.

 

[KingJ]

I am not too clear where you get the term "shaky".

• My faith is not "shaky" as you imply.
• My point with faith is, like anything about us, it is imperfect. Our imperfection is determined by God alone and whether it be "shacky" or not, is determined by him and to what degree is determined by the individual. 1 Corinthians 13:10 (KJV) But when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away . Our perfection is yet to come. The point I see here is that, being a Born Again Christian, with Christ in us, God over looks our imperfections but credits us with Christ's perfection. Each of us personally, will not be perfect until we die and go to heaven.
  
• I make no comparison to the law. The Law is perfect and we are not. We are not capable of fulfilling the law as an individual but, with Christ in us, He fulfills the law through us.....God doesn't call us righteous personally, he credits us with Christ's righteousness in us. Jesus said that he did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it; he does this by getting inside us.

Unwavering would be perfect. Making wavering / shaky, imperfect. But this is a non issue.

What faith is imperfect?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

@Thiscrosshurts You say ''The spirit never changes so the spirit does it perfectly at all times. However I may not perceive this fact at all times''. What faith do you not perceive at all times? What faith does the spirit do perfectly?

I was not referring to faith,but answering a question about believing or seeing perfectly at all times..
The spirit does not need faith.

 

[Bendito]

James 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
James 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
James 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Ater your faith is developed you may be called to the next level of trusting God.
That would be the "word of endurance" movement.

Jesus did not turn those stones into bread because he was the bread that came to make the stones living.
Temptation #1 Get your needs filled as proof you are the Son of God.

Why do you differentiate faith from faith? There is only one kind of faith...Your response above has me wondering if you know what faith is...Really...
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Trusting is being confident of what we hope for, convinced about things we do not see.)
It's as simple as that..What you're describing above is not different kinds of faith, but faith for different things..but the faith itself is the same.
You trust God for something, He comes through for you, your faith grows, you plant it again, God comes through for you, your faith grows again...What's not to understand?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

1. Our carnal mind does faith in God perfectly. As Heb 11:6 says we ''must'' believe God exists / A fool says there is not God Psalm 14:1 as belief in God is the default belief for every working brain Rom 1:20.

2. Our renewed mind does faith in Jesus perfectly. As by the Holy Spirit we can ''never'' say Jesus is not Lord / curse Him 1 Cor 12:3. There is no such thing as an ex Christian atheist.

3. Our renewed mind and our spirit grow in faith in God. Since God can do anything Rom 9, we and all of His creation that are able, have hope in Him choosing to be good. Meet our needs and wants. That is the only shaky ground for both spirit and renewed mind. That is why the wise fear God.

I agree with everything but growing in spirit.
My perception of the spirit can grow,but spirit is perfect and whole whether I perceive it or not.
The renewed mind is the mind of Christ which is whole and perfect.
The renewed mind is a mind with all error removed.

 

[Bendito]

I was not referring to faith,but answering a question about believing or seeing perfectly at all times..
The spirit does not need faith.

The spirit does not need faith....You need to show that by scripture....You are a spirit, you have a soul, you live in a body...If the just live by faith, and you are a spirit justified by faith, how can you say the spirit does not need faith?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Why do you differentiate faith from faith? There is only one kind of faith...Your response above has me wondering if you know what faith is...Really...

I wasn't referring to faith.
I was referring to the testing of an individual's faith.

 

[Bendito]

I wasn't referring to faith.
I was referring to the testing of an individual's faith.

Ok I understand but faith is still used the same in all situations...Plant it....It grows

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The spirit does not need faith....You need to show that by scripture....You are a spirit, you have a soul, you live in a body...If the just live by faith, and you are a spirit justified by faith, how can you say the spirit does not need faith?

Our minds need faith to believe what the spirit knows perfectly.
I am a spirit.
I am experiencing a mind.
My mind thinks I am a body.
My mind needs faith to believe that I am a spirit.
The spirit can lead my mind toward truth.
The carnal mind is experiencing a perception problem.
The spirit can correct errors that produce and uphold the misperception.
The spirit is what gives me the faith to believe God's word more that I believe in what my mind is experiencing.

 

[Bendito]

Our minds need faith to believe what the spirit knows perfectly.
I am a spirit.
I am experiencing a mind.
My mind thinks I am a body.
My mind needs faith to believe that I am a spirit.
The spirit can lead my mind toward truth.
The carnal mind is experiencing a perception problem.
The spirit can correct errors that produce and uphold the misperception.
The spirit is what gives me the faith to believe God's word more that I believe in what my mind is experiencing.

A perfect example of analytical thinking, I admit I have a problem with it being an intuitive thinker...It's a good answer..Keeping in mind that until you were born again your spirit was dead in sin...You need to grow as a spirit just as you have to grow physically...If you went off Word, your spirit would get skinny and weak...because the Word is food for our spirits...Your mind needs faith to believe that you are spirit because your mind rules your spirit instead of your spirit rules your mind...Your spirit, you, should be ruling your mind. You, spirit, should be ruling your body. The Word corrects errors and misconceptions..Your spirit is what uses the faith not producing it.

 

[RJ]

Unwavering would be perfect. Making wavering / shaky, imperfect. But this is a non issue.

What faith is imperfect?

Sorry, this makes no sense to me.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

A perfect example of analytical thinking, I admit I have a problem with it being an intuitive thinker...It's a good answer..Keeping in mind that until you were born again your spirit was dead in sin...You need to grow as a spirit just as you have to grow physically...If you went off Word, your spirit would get skinny and weak...because the Word is food for our spirits...Your mind needs faith to believe that you are spirit because your mind rules your spirit instead of your spirit rules your mind...Your spirit, you, should be ruling your mind. You, spirit, should be ruling your body. The Word corrects errors and misconceptions..Your spirit is what uses the faith not producing it.

I think we are using some words differently.
Perhaps if we agreed on word definitions it would be easier to communicate.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The body is came from dust.
The spirit was given by God and was never dead.
However my perception of the spirit was dead.

I agree that the spirit should rule my mind and then the dust just tags along.
My mind uses faith to believe what the spirit(from God) is saying.
The spirit from God has perfect knowledge of God.
The spirit teaches me how to use faith to correct error in my perception.

 

[KingJ]

Sorry, this makes no sense to me.

You say our renewed mind has imperfect faith.

What faith is imperfect? I cannot believe how you all talk about faith without clarifying what it is in .

Are you talking about faith in gravity? Faith in my sister doing my homework? Faith in Muslims carrying out more terror attacks? Faith in a frog becoming a princess if I kiss it?

Our renewed mind has imperfect faith in.....sushi making us lean?

 

[KingJ]

I agree with everything but growing in spirit.
My perception of the spirit can grow,but spirit is perfect and whole whether I perceive it or not.
The renewed mind is the mind of Christ which is whole and perfect.
The renewed mind is a mind with all error removed.

We will never be omniscient. No creation ever will be. Hence every creation, no matter how renewed / enlightened they are....should always fear God / a constant building of faith in Him being good / not choosing to wake up one-day on the wrong side of the bed and decide to annihilate us all. He can. Rom 9 is clear on that.

I guess we will only be certain of this in heaven. I guess we can place absolute confidence in Jesus keeping us.

 

[KingJ]

Why do you differentiate faith from faith? There is only one kind of faith...Your response above has me wondering if you know what faith is...Really...
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Trusting is being confident of what we hope for, convinced about things we do not see.)
It's as simple as that..What you're describing above is not different kinds of faith, but faith for different things..but the faith itself is the same.
You trust God for something, He comes through for you, your faith grows, you plant it again, God comes through for you, your faith grows again...What's not to understand?

What faith grows? Faith that the God you liaising with is able to come through for you (faith in God's omnipotence)? Or faith that there is a God that will come through for you (faith in God's existence)? Or faith that that God up there cares enough about you to come through for you (faith in God's goodness)?

It is like saying we must '''love'''. Without clarifying we must love God first, other's second. Then onto properly defining what exactly loving God entails.

 

[RJ]

You say our renewed mind has imperfect faith.

What faith is imperfect? I cannot believe how you all talk about faith without clarifying what it is in .

Are you talking about faith in gravity? Faith in my sister doing my homework? Faith in Muslims carrying out more terror attacks? Faith in a frog becoming a princess if I kiss it?

Our renewed mind has imperfect faith in.....sushi making us lean?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
Simply put, the biblical definition of faith is “trusting in something you cannot explicitly prove.”
It is a personal and spiritual thing, initiated by God and grows through his word with the aid of the Holy Spirit in you!
Gravity, homework, terror attacks, a frog? Are you serious!

 

[KingJ]

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
Simply put, the biblical definition of faith is “trusting in something you cannot explicitly prove.”
It is a personal and spiritual thing, initiated by God and grows through his word with the aid of the Holy Spirit in you!
Gravity, homework, terror attacks, a frog? Are you serious!

Are you serious? This is becoming ridiculously hilarious.

Yes, you can have faith in gravity and a frog.

If you want to think in terms of faith in a biblical sense only....well I mention some in post #76 right above your post...Heb 11:1 is not contrary to the common English definition of the word.

We have to be pedantic on this RJ. Faith teaching in some churches has become positive thinking.

Faith is not a stand alone word. You can't say you have ''''faith''' without clarifying it...even in a biblical sense!!! This is kindergarten English skills here. I cannot believe you all!!!!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

We will never be omniscient. No creation ever will be. Hence every creation, no matter how renewed / enlightened they are....should always fear God / a constant building of faith in Him being good / not choosing to wake up one-day on the wrong side of the bed and decide to annihilate us all. He can. Rom 9 is clear on that.

God is not a drunken schizophrenic father,God is love.

Does love change?
Does God change?
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God does not sleep so he does not wake up.
God is spirit and he is one.

God is love so love is all there is to know.
Knowledge is knowing.
Jesus is the word not words.
words are needed to describe difference due to the belief in separation.

If God is one there is no separation in him.
One love does not need description because there is no difference to describe.
If I live in him and he lives in me then there is no separation unless
I don't believe we are one and that would force God to separate from me to conform to my beliefs.

Love does not demand it's own way so God is patient.
Love never fails so he will find a way, even inventing words to communicate with someone who believes in separation.

Jesus is God and God is love so Jesus is love who invites us to love the one love in truth and in spirit.
Love is all there is so he who loves perfectly knows all.
That's why we need no man teach us because the spirit reminds of of all things which is one thing.

 

[RJ]

Are you serious? This is becoming ridiculously hilarious.

Yes, you can have faith in gravity and a frog.

If you want to think in terms of faith in a biblical sense only....well I mention some in post #76 right above your post...Heb 11:1 is not contrary to the common English definition of the word.

We have to be pedantic on this RJ. Faith teaching in some churches has become positive thinking.

Faith is not a stand alone word. You can't say you have ''''faith''' without clarifying it...even in a biblical sense!!! This is kindergarten English skills here. I cannot believe you all!!!!

Obviously we share nothing in common, the only thing pedantic here is that I grow weary of you. Have a great day and God bless your spiritual growth.