Jehovah's Witnesses

[Maureen]

Your words:-
'I am not going to say Jesus is or is not GOD, any more. I am going to leave that in GOD'S Hands.'

Why will you not claim that Jesus is God?

John 14 v 9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
John 14 v 7
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

These verses alone tell us who Jesus is, also the Trinity does, but sure J.W. doesn't believe that either.
There is much wrong in what they are being told, their scriptures are tampered with, the prophecies they predicted never came true they kept on changing the date of when the world was to end, 'ye shall know them by their friuts'
Matt 7 v 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Now what has the Bible to say on false prophets,

2 Peter 2 v1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1 John 4 v 1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[Strypes]

I will be a little more direct...

Jonah, are you a jehovah's witness?

 

[Maureen]

stop reading minds Strypes haha
we are not ashamed of the gospel. Hallelujah.

 

[Maureen]

Jonah2000BT
perhaps then you can shed some light on a matter for me?
In your view of things, how would lives pan out between a Born Again Christain being married to a Jehovah Witness? One being on the broad road other on the narrow way, both differant beliefs, how can they live in harmony?
I suppose it is only God himself can direct the unbelief by His own hand.

 

[Strypes]

Jonah,

The reason I ask is because your words remind me very much of my former friend that was raised Jehovah's witness. He spoke using some of the same phrases you have used in this thread. carefully avoiding certian things like saying he believed Jesus is God manifested in flesh.

you have the right to believe what ever you wish, my concern is that unless it is in concert with the gospel, you will miss out on true fellowship with the Holy Spirit.

But please remember, God loves you! you don't have to be perfect and you don't have to jump through hoops for his approval. He loves you and understands the challanges you face, and wants you to choose Him above anything and everything else.

The different demoninations may disagree, but there is one thing that is vital. That is that our hearts be completely HIS.

not ruled by man or things or organizations or dominations but ruled by the Holy Spirit!

you see, I know that The HOLY SPIRIT has guarded his word!! man may try to contaminate it, we could discuss at length the history of Biblical translations, but not one of them "speak" without THE HOLY SPIRIT!!

The Watchtower has attempted to take the role of the Holy Spirit by insisting that they are the only interpreter of scripture and by insisting that the watchtower publications are needed to understand. That is so not true!!

The Holy Spirit is the one that opens our hearts and minds to understanding HIS word!

 

[Maureen]

Yes Jonah
come back in for some chat, if we could make tea I would have white no sugar please.
lets come together and discuss these important matters, they are life and death, Jesus died for the whosoever, that's you and me and all the rest.
let's talk.

Strypes,
why indeed did you do so much research into J.W. watchtower and organization, mine was cause my son recently married one, why do you want to know if they are brothers and sisters?
hope you don't mind these questions and that they aren't too personal.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Please forgive me for the double print. Some how I thought I was editing & instead I made a double print.
I seriously didn't mean to. *genesis

 

[Strypes]

Strypes,
why indeed did you do so much research into J.W. watchtower and organization, mine was cause my son recently married one, why do you want to know if they are brothers and sisters?
hope you don't mind these questions and that they aren't too personal.

I had a friend here at talk Jesus named mark. He prayed with me back in January of 2005 a salvation prayer and was a baby Christian. We talked for hours about the things of God and about the time he was beginning to unlearn some things he was taught growing up as a Jehovah's witness, there was a thread about Jehovah's witnesses that was anything but "loving"... a member made the comment that JWS were evil (the people).(the doctrines are.. the people are lost souls) Mark was extremely offended because he loves his parents and commented that his parents were NOT EVIL.. no one picked up on the cry of his heart and he was ridiculed. I was ignorant regarding the Watchtower's doctrines and I didn't know how to answer him and some ugly stuff happened and his only link to "Christians" was severed.

I tried staying in contact with him and we maintained our friendship for about a year. During that time I questioned him extensively and in January of 2006 he returned to his parents hometown and rejoined the JWS organization.

Shortly after that, he cut me totally out of his life.(Jehovah's witnesses are not allowed to fellowship with bornagain Christians, they consider us "apostate")


During the time that I was challenging his beliefs in a search for the truth regarding Jehovah's witnesses. I explored "common ground". My desire was to find a common thread that was biblically sound that validated JWS as true believers. I didn't want to tell mark that he and his family according to the bible were destined not for "paradise" but for hell. My love for that family was (still is) so strong that I wasn't going to give up the search till I found the answer. I wanted desperately to be able to tell him that it was ok that he and his parents and brothers were fine in their beliefs though strange and legalistic the heart of the gospel was in tact and God would honor their service.

The extent to which I went to discover the truth was rather insane... and what I learned was that the "heart" of the gospel was cut out. They do not believe Gospel truths according to the scriptures, but intertwine passages and take them totally out of context to make a point that wasn't the "point" at all.

To become a Jehovah's Witness you have to pledge allegiance to the watchtower and believe that they are the faithful and discreet slave mentioned in Matthew 25 and they and they alone are the ONLY source of "accurate knowledge and spiritual food".. To become a JWS, I would have to deny the HOLY SPIRIT. I would have to reject the one that I known as my best friend for the past 28 years (i was bornagain in 1979) and consider HIM an "it". (I thank God that my "roots" were deep)

My heart broke for them.. They are so deceived.

So the bottom line is that though on the outside they appear "righteous", upon inspection, they are rotten to the core. Their is no life in them.

I love Mark and his family still and out of love for him, as a wound from a friend, I told him of my discoveries (and got "disfellowshipped").Everyday I pray for them. That their eyes be opened to the truth and that they will clearly see the simplicity of the gospel and embrace the Holy Spirit because HE wants to be their best friend too.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Your words:-
'I am not going to say Jesus is or is not GOD, any more. I am going to leave that in GOD'S Hands.'

Why will you not claim that Jesus is God?

John 14 v 9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
John 14 v 7
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And it is widely known, that a son can be the splitting image of his dad, and have all his personality as well.

Though the Scriptures John 1:1-4 & John 14:7 - 9 are very convincing I still will stand in what I said. I feel safe & seiqure this way. For this way I feel I am not telling a lie.

And I am not calling you or anyone a lier, either. Regardless how these words may sound, please believe me.

It's just I don't trust man. Psalms 118:8, Psalms 146:3, Proverbs 29:25, Isaiah 2:22, Jeremiah 17:7
Man has made many mistakes. And there are many false teachings. And so easy to believe in if we are not careful.

Jesus knows how I feel & He knows I want to be true.

And since I am not perfect I need to be on my gard, as well.

And always put my trust in GOD Almighty, Christ Jesus & The Holy Spirit, that also is well known as the Trinity.

Romans 1:17
17. This Good News tells us that God makes us ready for heaven--makes us right in God's sight--when we put our faith and trust in Christ to save us. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scripture says it, ``The man who finds life will find it through trusting God.''

Psalms 40:4, Proverbs 3:5, Proverbs 16:20, Jeremiah 17:5

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I will be a little more direct...

Jonah, are you a jehovah's witness?

No dear I am not. Just some solo Bible Studying I've been doing.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Jonah2000BT
perhaps then you can shed some light on a matter for me?
In your view of things, how would lives pan out between a Born Again Christain being married to a Jehovah Witness? One being on the broad road other on the narrow way, both differant beliefs, how can they live in harmony?
I suppose it is only God himself can direct the unbelief by His own hand.

If they both love The Almighty GOD & Jesus Christ chances are they will be well Blessed, as long as they both stick to the Loving Teachings of our Beloved Savior, Christ Jesus our Lord.

GOD is pleased that you love HIM & want to do HIS work. As HE loves all HIS children that love HIM & hope to do HIS Will.

GOD knows us all better than we know ourselves, HE knows what we are thinking & how we feel.

I can not say to one person or to the other that they do not believe in The Almighty GOD or in Jesus Christ.

Who am I to make such a statement?

Sure I may disagree with some of the things they say; but what makes me better than they are?

What if I have it all wrong? And they were right? Who am I to condemn them & shut them out?

If I believe that GOD is guiding me, then isn't HE guiding me for the sake of being able to help & guide someone else, as well?

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Originally Posted by Strypes
Jonah,

The reason I ask is because your words remind me very much of my former friend that was raised Jehovah's witness. He spoke using some of the same phrases you have used in this thread. carefully avoiding certian things like saying he believed Jesus is God manifested in flesh.

you have the right to believe what ever you wish, my concern is that unless it is in concert with the gospel, you will miss out on true fellowship with the Holy Spirit.

But please remember, God loves you! you don't have to be perfect and you don't have to jump through hoops for his approval. He loves you and understands the challanges you face, and wants you to choose Him above anything and everything else.

The different demoninations may disagree, but there is one thing that is vital. That is that our hearts be completely HIS.

not ruled by man or things or organizations or dominations but ruled by the Holy Spirit!

you see, I know that The HOLY SPIRIT has guarded his word!! man may try to contaminate it, we could discuss at length the history of Biblical translations, but not one of them "speak" without THE HOLY SPIRIT!!

Originally Posted by Maureen:
Yes Jonah
come back in for some chat, if we could make tea I would have white no sugar please.
lets come together and discuss these important matters, they are life and death, Jesus died for the whosoever, that's you and me and all the rest.
let's talk.

Both of you are very dear to me with your kind words.

Thank you both for trying to understand.

A Sister in Christ Jesus, always! *genesis

 

[Strypes]

Sure I may disagree with some of the things they say; but what makes me better than they are?

What if I have it all wrong? And they were right? Who am I to condemn them & shut them out?

But that is exactly what they will do.

They call it "disfellowshiping". If you disagree with watchtower doctrine then you are "iced out". You are seen as a "threat" to their "clean congregation" and if you do not jump through their (man made) hoops you will find yourself having "left Jehovah" and no JWS in good standing would dare speak to you in fear of being disfellowshiped as well. They will treat you as an enemy of Jehovah and destined for destruction at Armageddon.

Though all you did was disagree with watchtower doctrine by quoting a scripture IN CONTEXT!

Strypes<=== been there ... done that...lol

 

[Word of Life]

God is spirit. He created soul life in Mary by creating a ***** with perfect blood. Jesus Christ had perfect blood, just like Adam and Eve had at one time, and it was Jesus Christ's perfect blood that paid for our redemption.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[Word of Life]

But that is exactly what they will do.

They call it "disfellowshiping". If you disagree with watchtower doctrine then you are "iced out". You are seen as a "threat" to their "clean congregation" and if you do not jump through their (man made) hoops you will find yourself having "left Jehovah" and no JWS in good standing would dare speak to you in fear of being disfellowshiped as well. They will treat you as an enemy of Jehovah and destined for destruction at Armageddon.

Though all you did was disagree with watchtower doctrine by quoting a scripture IN CONTEXT!

Strypes<=== been there ... done that...lol

It's not just them, one has to be wary off.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus told us there are many false prophets. If one reads that scripture above, there are many of them. If one does a search in google, on False Christs and False prophets, you may be surprised. I was, top evangelists, whom I thought could never be false, were on that list. And the crowds are still following them, as they want to be part of that BIG crowd.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

If you are following Christ, and are doing the Fathers will, you are going to be in the minority.

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The above scripture is not referring to the JW's because they don't believe in this. So if it's not them, who does that scripture refer too?

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Now seeing as the JW's don't believe in the spiritual side, casting out demons etc, that scripture above, is referring to someone else (denomination/church/religion). And this is what I am searching into.

 

[Maureen]

my my Jonah
again,
to say that the son can be the spitting image of his Father, and to suggest that the Lord Jesus was making this referal, is unscriptural.

John 8 v 19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
John 6 v 46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
(telling us that Jesus is God.)
John 10 v 38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

any of the above sound like 'spitting images'?

Jehovah's witnesses are not allowed to fellowship with bornagain Christians, they consider us "apostate")
how does that tally then with my son and his wife?
his walk is fairly slipping, no church here, going out drinking there. It can't be easy to be in his situation though.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

All I know is that no-one's perfect and even Jesus said; "No one is good but ONE, that is, GOD."{Mark 10:18}

Mark 10:17-18
17. Now as He {Jesus} was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?''
18. So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

So I will pray for all my Brothers & Sisters regardless who they may be.

 

[Maureen]

Jonah
why is it you seem intent on discrediting our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?
didn't he lay down His life for us all?
what man would do that for us?
He was the sinless, spotless, perfect sacrifice who made atonement for us.
Is that not enough for you?
There is no other blood that could be 'good' enough to take away our sin.
why still then do you not have the faith it requiires to believe that He is the great I am?
Do you really want to be a voice crying out among the 'scoffers'?
It takes faith, it is written, just believe, and be done with trying to disprove Him.
He is our bridge back to God, the one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus, do you really think he would let anyone call him 'good' he is meek and humble, as we to are to be.
Just believe and receive Him.
Amen

 

[Word of Life]

Maureen, I don't believe in the trinity doctrine either. And I am not a JW's.

And I am going to tell you why, God hasn't revealed it to me, so who do I believe man or God. I will wait upon Him and until that time, I will continue reading and studying my Bible and gaining knowledge of the Creator of Heaven and Earth, and what His likes are and dislikes are.

This doesn't mean I am from the devil, I have a good heart, and I love people and I want to help people, and more than anything else in the world, I want to see people saved, that's all I think about. My whole out-look in life has changed since being born-again. People out there, have got this totally and out of context; they would rather believe man opinions, than have the love of God in them. God told us not to deny anyone. I have also sat in church, when a pastor basically said, avoid the JW"s. My own family and a friend has told me to avoid them, as they are from the devil, and we should have nothing to do with them. What's in me, is far greater than what's in this world, so I am certainly not going to be afraid of them, maybe we could learn from each other.

What would Jesus have done? He would helped them and shown them love. We are all in bondage and need deliverance from all the kinds of wickenesses, lusts of this world.

I also need to add, there is not one scripture in the Bible, saying that we have to believe in the trinity to be saved, not one? The bible says, believe in him, whom the Father sent and believe God raised him (Jesus) from the dead.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I believe in the Almighty God, Jesus, the son of God, and the Holy Spirit, which is far greater than what's in this world. I have been to God in prayer and asked Him to show me and give me answers to all these important questions. As yet, I am still waiting upon Him for those answers.

But like I said in another of my posts, the world has confused man and caused so many divisions amongst us, when one should be standing together as true brothers and sisters in Christ. And I too, like Jonah, would rather wait until Jesus comes back to give us those answers.

But I need to add more, if one does not believe in the trinity, this does not mean they are the anti-christ. This is where the people have got it so wrong, these people are not your enemy. They have just interpreted the scriptures differently (False Teachers). Like some of the other churches have done also.

The anti-christ, are the ones who deny Jesus coming in the flesh altogether. Namely, the Muslims. I don't know about any other religion. But there again, I don't follow religion, I listen to the Creator. I go directly to Him, to His throne, where Jesus is my High Priest, to get my answers from, and I wait upon Him.

 

[Maureen]

Word of Life,
I wasn't refering to the 'Trinity' I know it is not in scripture, that is what man has said is there, I don't see were I put in the Trinity in my post.

I agree with what you have said on J.W. we are not to avoid them, but offer a helping hand, although any I know don't want one, they would have you believe them instead and not biblical truth, their truth they say from the Watchtower, again man-made.

We know we cannot believe in any thing other than what the Lord Jesus did on the cross and cried 'it is finished' a completed finished work.

I think you have really picked me up so wrongly, I did neither say if you don't believe in the Trinity you are the anit-Christ, not my words, but we do also get our answers from the word of God, we need to search them continually as welll as in prayer to our maker.

The Lord never meant for divisions here, denominations are a division, also the man made religions, we are His bride, 'the church' a body of His people not the building, not a denomination or a cult.