Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

"but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly

This truth carnal reason cant comprehend and wont accept, which is the elect here are being justified before God even while being in a ungodly state or as unbelievers at enmity with God. See they wouldnt be ungodly if they were believers already. Note further that the object of their Faith is He that Justifies the ungodly.

 

[Brightfame52]

I believe scripture teaches us that the elect of God were justified before God before faith because of the surety-ship doings and righteousness of Jesus Christ their Head, and if this be true, it would be also true that they were justified before God before they actually had a physical being, even before the world began because of His surety-ship engagement to come into the world and die for the elect. 26

 

[Brightfame52]

So if God Justifies the ungodly, He justifies unbelievers !

"but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, "

This truth carnal reason cant comprehend and wont accept, which is the elect here are being justified before God even while being in a ungodly state or as unbelievers at enmity with God. See they wouldnt be ungodly if they were believers already. Note further that the object of their Faith is He that Justifies the ungodly. 26

 

[KingJ]

Those are two excellent posts. Now, a question if we look at Romans 4:25 in a literal translation and the Weymouth -

"who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous." (Rom 4:25 YLT)

or from the Weymouth

"who was surrendered to death because of the offences we had committed, and was raised to life because of the acquittal secured for us." (Rom 4:25 Weymouth)

What is the response to John Gill's comments on the next verse, Rom. 5:1 -

"Therefore being justified by faith,.... Not that faith is at the first of our justification; for that is a sentence which passed in the mind of God from all eternity, and which passed on Christ, and on all the elect considered in him, when he rose from the dead; see Ro 4:25; nor is it the chief, or has it the chief place in justification; it is not the efficient cause of it, it is God that justifies, and not faith; it is not the moving cause of it, that is the free grace of God; it is not the matter of it, that is the righteousness of Christ: we are not justified by faith, either as God's work in us, for, as such, it is a part of sanctification; nor as our work or act, as exercised by us, for then we should be justified by works, by something of our own, and have whereof to glory; but we are justified by faith objectively and relatively, as that relates to the object Christ, and his righteousness; or as it is a means of our knowledge, and perception of our justification by Christ's righteousness, and of our enjoying the comfort of it..."

From the 1644/1646 First London Confession of Faith of Particular Baptists on justification -

XXVIII
THOSE that have union with Christ, are justified from all their sins by the blood of Christ, which justification is a gracious and full acquittance of a guilty sinner from all sin, by God, through the satisfaction that Christ hath made by His death for all their sins, and this applied (in manifestation of it) through faith.
1 John 1:7; Heb.l0:14, 9:26; 2 Cor.5:19; Rom.3:23; Acts 13:38,39; Rom.5:1, 3:25,30.

Does/did justification of the elect happen before the creation, as taught by John Gill, "eternal justification"? At the point in time that the elect believes? Or, at the cross while we were still ungodly?

The problem with this interpretation is that it repeatedly inserts Calvinistic assumptions into the text instead of letting the text speak for itself.

Romans 4:5 says: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Notice carefully:

1. The verse says God justifies “the ungodly.”
2. The verse explicitly connects justification with faith:
   “his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Paul is not teaching that people are already justified before believing. He is teaching that God justifies ungodly people THROUGH faith.

The Calvinist argument quietly changes the verse into: “God justified the elect before they believed.” But Paul never says that.

In fact, Romans 5:1 directly contradicts the idea of eternal justification:

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

If the elect were already justified from eternity, or already justified at the cross before believing, then Paul’s wording makes little sense. Why say “being justified by faith” at all?

Faith is not merely awareness of a justification already possessed eternally. Faith is the means by which a person receives justification.

Romans 3:25-26 also says this:

“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood…”

Again, justification is connected to faith, not to an eternal decree existing apart from faith.

The Calvinist argument also confuses:

1. The accomplishment of atonement,
   with
2. The application of atonement.

Christ died for sins at the cross historically. But individuals receive the benefits of His death when they believe.

That is why Paul says in Romans 5:1: “being justified by faith.”

Even Romans 5:6 does not say: “Christ died only for the elect.” It simply says: “Christ died for the ungodly.”

Calvinists assume “ungodly = elect only,” but the text itself never says that.

In Romans, “ungodly” refers broadly to sinful mankind. Earlier in Romans Paul already described the ungodliness of humanity generally:

Romans 1:18: “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness…”

So there is no reason to artificially limit “ungodly” in Romans 5:6 to only the elect.

The appeal to Romans 8:33 also fails because Paul is speaking about believers who are already in Christ, not unconverted people walking around already justified before faith.

Romans 8 is describing the security of believers, not teaching eternal justification.

Likewise, Titus 3:7 does not teach eternal justification either: “That being justified by his grace…”

Grace is the source of justification, but scripture consistently says faith is the means through which justification is received.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith…”

Grace and faith are not enemies. Salvation is by grace THROUGH faith.

John Gill’s “eternal justification” creates major biblical problems:

• If people are justified before believing, then in what sense are they still “children of wrath” (Eph 2:3)?
• How can a justified person still be condemned already (John 3:18)?
• Why does scripture repeatedly connect justification to faith if justification already existed eternally?

The Bible never says: “You were justified from eternity.”

It says:

• Christ died for sins.
• The gospel is preached.
• People believe.
• God justifies the believer.

That is the consistent apostolic pattern.

The Calvinist system is reading a theological framework back into the text instead of deriving doctrine from the actual wording of scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

He also Justifies them as unbelievers by His death, when He bare their iniquities Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

By this bearing their iniquities He Justified them ! Folks though false teachers will deny it and corrupt the truth of it, Christ by dying for the sins of them He died for, The Sheep, that fact alone justified them. Because when He died for them, satisfied the justice and law of God for them, by bearing the punishment due to their sins,

So God for Christ sake doeth acquit them ! Also the word for justify in Isa 53:11 tsadaq means to cleanse ! As in Dan 8:14 ! 26

 

[Brightfame52]

Does/did justification of the elect happen before the creation, as taught by John Gill, "eternal justification"? At the point in time that the elect believes? Or, at the cross while we were still ungodly?

All are true in their various phases, the elect are Justified b4 God by means of His Eternal Purpose in Christ b4 the world began 2 Tim 1:9 and legally at the Cross when Christ put away their sins Rom 4:25 and then perceptively by Faith when they receive the Spiritual Knowledge and persuasion of it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Justified solely by Christs obedience !

Though the religions of men dont believe or understand this blessed truth, its nonetheless true, that al the sinners Christ represented in His obedience while upon this earth , it justified them or makes them righteous. Lets look at a scripture to that effect Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here also means just or justified. The individual sinners obedience has nothing to do with this Justification, because if it did that would contradict and over throw the blessed truth of this verse.26

 

[Brightfame52]

Also those sinners Christ died for, the same are or have been Justified by His Resurrection from the dead, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, Christ being raised from the dead is an attestation that the sinners for whom offences He was delivered up for, they have been cleared, justified of them.

Thats also why Paul wrote to fellow believers in Corinth that if Christ hasn't been risen from the dead their faith is vain, and they are yet still in their sins, so conversely , since He was raised, they are clear and free of their sins, which truth is revealed to God given Faith. 1 Cor 15:17

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

There's no such thing as a sinner Christ died for and raised again for, not being Justified ! For that would invalidated the attestation of Christs resurrection from the dead !

 

[Brightfame52]

but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

The free gift here isnt a offer as many wickedly teach, but it actually results in many being justified!

Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 27

 

[KingJ]

He also Justifies them as unbelievers by His death, when He bare their iniquities Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

By this bearing their iniquities He Justified them ! Folks though false teachers will deny it and corrupt the truth of it, Christ by dying for the sins of them He died for, The Sheep, that fact alone justified them. Because when He died for them, satisfied the justice and law of God for them, by bearing the punishment due to their sins,

So God for Christ sake doeth acquit them ! Also the word for justify in Isa 53:11 tsadaq means to cleanse ! As in Dan 8:14 ! 26

Isaiah 53 does not teach that people are justified as unbelievers at the cross. It says the Servant will “justify many,” but Scripture consistently ties justification to faith (Romans 5:1, Galatians 2:16), not to an automatic legal status applied regardless of response.

If justification were completed for all Christ died for at the moment of the cross, then justification would be unconditional and universal for that group — which contradicts the repeated biblical requirement of faith.

Isaiah 53 supports substitutionary atonement, not unconditional justification apart from belief.

 

[KingJ]

Justified solely by Christs obedience !

Though the religions of men dont believe or understand this blessed truth, its nonetheless true, that al the sinners Christ represented in His obedience while upon this earth , it justified them or makes them righteous. Lets look at a scripture to that effect Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here also means just or justified. The individual sinners obedience has nothing to do with this Justification, because if it did that would contradict and over throw the blessed truth of this verse.26

Romans 5:19 is comparing Adam and Christ in terms of representative heads, not describing an automatic, unconditional application of justification apart from faith.

If “made righteous” means every individual Christ represented is justified solely by His obedience with no condition, then the parallel would require every individual in Adam to be personally and finally condemned without exception — which Scripture does not teach in that deterministic way when read across the full biblical witness.

Paul himself clarifies the mechanism of justification just a few verses earlier: “we have been justified by faith” (Romans 5:1). So Romans 5:19 cannot be isolated to override the consistent condition of faith throughout Paul’s argument.

Christ’s obedience is the ground of justification, but faith is the means by which it is received.

 

[KingJ]

Also those sinners Christ died for, the same are or have been Justified by His Resurrection from the dead, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, Christ being raised from the dead is an attestation that the sinners for whom offences He was delivered up for, they have been cleared, justified of them.

Thats also why Paul wrote to fellow believers in Corinth that if Christ hasn't been risen from the dead their faith is vain, and they are yet still in their sins, so conversely , since He was raised, they are clear and free of their sins, which truth is revealed to God given Faith. 1 Cor 15:17

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

There's no such thing as a sinner Christ died for and raised again for, not being Justified ! For that would invalidated the attestation of Christs resurrection from the dead !

Romans 4:25 does not say Christ’s resurrection automatically justified every individual He died for. It says He was raised “for our justification,” meaning the resurrection is God’s public validation that the atoning work is complete and effective—not that its benefits are applied apart from faith.

Paul immediately clarifies how justification is received: “it will be counted to us who believe in Him” (Romans 4:24). So the passage is about assurance grounded in the resurrection, not universal or unconditional application.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 15:17 is not teaching that unbelievers are justified if Christ is raised; it is warning believers that if Christ is not raised, their faith is empty and they remain in their sins. The removal of sin is consistently tied to faith, not merely the objective event of resurrection.

So the resurrection confirms justification is possible and secured in Christ—it does not bypass the biblical condition of belief.

 

[KingJ]

but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

The free gift here isnt a offer as many wickedly teach, but it actually results in many being justified!

Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 27

Romans 5:16 is contrasting Adam’s act bringing condemnation with Christ’s work bringing a gift that results in justification — but it does not say this justification is applied unconditionally to every individual Christ represents.

Paul consistently explains elsewhere that this justification is received “by faith” (Romans 5:1), and the same chapter later distinguishes between what Christ accomplished and who benefits from it (“those who receive…”, Romans 5:17).

So the “free gift” is not merely an offer, but neither is it automatically applied apart from the God-ordained means of faith. It is sufficient for all, effective for those who believe.